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Thread: Cyberpunk 2077

  1. #81
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sonson's Avatar
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    The only context I feel have for judging the msyogony issue in this regard is CD Projeckt Red's past work. I personally, speaking as someone who is a pretty stringent feminsit, don't feel that the trailer is outright as demeaning as of itself. There could be a good reason for her looking as she does, or it could just be lewd and lazy and just games. The trailer itself dosen't answer that question, so all I have to go on is how women have been presented by the developer in previous games.

    My answer to is that while there are some strong elements of T and A and a juvenile obsession with the sexualty of women in both Witcher games for the most part the main female protagonsits are very fleshed out, full people who add to and enhance the game through virtue of their being there and, more importantly, being women and individuals. They aren't just male chatacters with tits, or window dressing, or objects to interact with and save. So the Witcher games take quite badly in regards to one part of the issue but they give quite considerably in regards to the other. Their overall attitude seems to be that of "Women can make great objects to look at but they aren't objects at all".

    What I would also add is that I think their worldview is sexualsied, rather just the women therein, and I think it's really here that the disconnect occurs.

    One also has to consider the narrative of context of the world in which it all occurs as well, although there the answers seem to be similar. It's a sanitised version of a pan-medieval world which dosen't present women as whores for men to fuck and control, but it's also a highly incongrous one in which strong and impressive women are as common as strong and impressive men. So again it seems to me that the ideals of CD Project Red are deliberate and played out quite purposefully in this.

    So if I had to predict I'm going to guess that Cypberpunk and the Witcher 3 are going to present women as conventionally very beautiful and sexualised cosmetically, but they will probably also be far more respected in terms of the time and effort given to their personality and character as individuals than most other games offer. Their stance is a contradiction but I feel they are by far one of the leading lights on the whole issue in games nonetheless.

  2. #82
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Also: Sweet horny shazbot. Let RPS read the freeze-frame for me. Yay for The Witcher 3 announcement. Not sure how I feel about the "open world" aspect. If it is as open as TW2, awesome. If they go for full-on Skyrim, not sure if I'll like that.
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  3. #83
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Zephro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    As for the trailer: I see nothing wrong with it. Yes, it is tittilating (tee hee), but it is justified. THis is someone who aug'd herself to hell and back going crazy. Who tends to do insane amounts of elective surgery? People who want to "be pretty". So it makes sense that it would juxtapose her beauty with her being insanely dangerous. She is clearly not helpless (in the sense of being able to kill everyone. Mentally? Who knows), and would probably have wiped out all the normal cops if super-cop hadn't used Maximum Speed to flash-step behind her.
    While I agree about CDR generally being good so having quite a relaxed attitude. This is all stuff you've read into it yourself, so it's not necessarily something other people will share, so I don't think it quite covers a justification. Also it doesn't cover exactly why her knickers are showing.

    The context isn't provided, maybe it's there some where (in a rulebook from 1988), but it's not given to us. So you have to wonder about the author's intent or their awareness of this. Otherwise they might have decided to draw her in trousers.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by sonson View Post
    Their stance is a contradiction(...)
    Physical appeal and personality are mutually exclusive?

  5. #85
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zephro View Post
    While I agree about CDR generally being good so having quite a relaxed attitude. This is all stuff you've read into it yourself, so it's not necessarily something other people will share, so I don't think it quite covers a justification. Also it doesn't cover exactly why her knickers are showing.

    The context isn't provided, maybe it's there some where (in a rulebook from 1988), but it's not given to us. So you have to wonder about the author's intent or their awareness of this. Otherwise they might have decided to draw her in trousers.
    I think that gets into the "showing, not telling" aspect.

    Things in the trailer:
    Everything appears to be in super-slow-mo. Boobs McGee never moves, and bullet time all over the place
    Boobs McGee is covered in blood and has blades coming out of her
    Boobs McGee has better armor than a Crytek Nanosuit
    Super-Cop shows up out of nowhere to flashstep and apprehend her
    The entire thing is a flashback that a current Super-Cop (now wearing clothes) is having before a mission

    Safe conclusions:
    What does that tell us? She is auged to hell and back, she killed people, she got better. At face value, you have the juxtaposition of beauty, violence, and augmentation. The fact that it looks like there is a team of super-cops to handle this suggests it happens more often than people would like.

    Things in the blurb that weren't in the trailer:
    Crap like this happens when people get too augmented and go crazy.

    Further safe conclusions:
    She augmented the hell out of herself. Considering she is beautiful, it was probably not (all) medically necessary.
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  6. #86
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Zephro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by His Master's Voice View Post
    Physical appeal and personality are mutually exclusive?
    They didn't say that. In fact he said CDR did a good job overall.

    EDIT: @ gundato.

    Sorry I should have been clearer. From what we're shown it is clear most of those things, but originally you talked about her "wanting" something. From all we know she's a cyborg with no motivation or a slave or something. My bad I really wasn't very clear last time.

    I'm also not sure it's a flashback of said Boobs McGee.

    I totally get the juxtaposition, not sure I agree with it but it's definitely the best reason I've heard so far. I'm still not quite clear why her knickers are showing though.
    Last edited by Zephro; 11-01-2013 at 04:08 PM.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Zephro View Post
    They didn't say that. In fact he said CDR did a good job overall.
    I know, I agree with the overall assessment. I'm simply wondering why presenting conventionally beautiful female characters with a real personality behind the pretty face is a 'contradictory stance'.

  8. #88
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Rauten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    Further safe conclusions:
    She augmented the hell out of herself. Considering she is beautiful, it was probably not (all) medically necessary.
    Who is to say her beauty isn't an augmentation, as well?

  9. #89
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Zephro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by His Master's Voice View Post
    I know, I agree with the overall assessment. I'm simply wondering why presenting conventionally beautiful female characters with a real personality behind the pretty face is a 'contradictory stance'.
    I think he said the slightly stupid stuff like sex cards and occasionally showing a woman with her top off for no real reason was contradictory. Not just them being beautiful in of itself, I may have gotten the wrong end of the stick.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Zephro View Post
    I think he said the slightly stupid stuff like sex cards and occasionally showing a woman with her top off for no real reason was contradictory
    Oh, well, okay. Don't mind me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rauten View Post
    Who is to say her beauty isn't an augmentation, as well?
    Who's to say she's a she?

    That's a serious question.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rauten View Post
    Who is to say her beauty isn't an augmentation, as well?
    Very possible. Reminds me of The Witcher setting where the witches use magical augmentations to hide their deformities and beautify themselves. Geralt's love interest used to be a deformed hunchback before she used copious amounts of Magic Fix-It.

    Kinda irrelevant though since The Witcher setting is an adaptation of Sapkowski's work.

  12. #92
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by His Master's Voice View Post
    Oh, well, okay. Don't mind me.



    Who's to say she's a she?

    That's a serious question.
    Okay, yeah. The Sex Cards thing was a REALLY dumb move. But I don't think that was necessarily (intentional) sexism, and more was just "People like collecting stuff, right? And Geralt has sex, right? Let's combine the two. WE ARE GENIUSES!!!!" and nobody realized it wasn't a joke until too late.


    And my point was more just that she looks more like a beautiful rich girl rather than a hardcore killing machine (at least, during the flashback). So it probably isn't "She got blowed up during a war and was reconstructed".
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  13. #93
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Unaco's Avatar
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    My 2 cents... I was always brought up not to judge a woman for her sexuality. Women can be in charge of and own their sexuality, without the rest of the world making judgements about them, and you shouldn't judge a book by its cover, so to speak. So what if she's not wearing much? I think it says more about the perceptions of women held by those decrying this, than any intentions or beliefs of CDPR... "she's dressed like that because she is objectified/sexualised by men", rather than "she's dressed like that because she has chosen to". Or, maybe all those SlutWalks from the last 12-18 months were actually elaborately organised by misogynists.

    Also, my guess, she was undergoing surgery when she went Psycho... thus the surgically white clothing. Looks quite similar to what Noomi Rapace wears during the surgery scenes in Prometheus... but actually covers more.
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    I just have an opinion different to your own. Circle jerking is good for no one, be glad somebody isn't afraid to disagree with women on the internet.
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  14. #94
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Zephro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by His Master's Voice View Post
    Who's to say she's a she?

    That's a serious question.
    Oh colour me intrigued now! *skulks off to fap*

    I think what I'm doing is looking at it as a piece of marketing not as a part of a wider narrative I know nothing about. In that context it does look like they've either picked a bit like this or made it specially for marketing. Ie with an eye to tits and knickers selling. My opinion anyhow.

    And as has been clearly said CDR aren't bad guys, but are sometimes a bit naive or misguided maybe?

    Women can be in charge of and own their sexuality
    Yep they totally can. However this one is a fictional character so can't. We're not judging her, we're raising concerns about the intent of the author(s) who are likely men.

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonson View Post
    Their stance is a contradiction but I feel they are by far one of the leading lights on the whole issue in games nonetheless.
    How is it a contradiction? Are you implying that sexualization is a strict no-no if one is to give depth to a character, either male or female, or do you think that the nudity is there for the sole purpose of titillation? Sex is a integral part of life, depicting people in a sexualized manner adds to the personality of a given character when done tastefully.

  16. #96
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Unaco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zephro View Post
    Yep they totally can. However this one is a fictional character so can't. We're not judging her, we're raising concerns about the intent of the author(s) who are likely men.
    I'd disagree... I think she is being judged... fictional character or not. She's not wearing much, therefore she is a sex object, rather than a woman who has chosen to dress like that, or a woman regardless of what she's wearing. And you're also making assumptions that the 'authors' are men, and that there are no women involved. Can a man not represent a woman in charge of her sexuality without it being negative in some way?
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    I just have an opinion different to your own. Circle jerking is good for no one, be glad somebody isn't afraid to disagree with women on the internet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    No, you are literally the cancer that is killing gaming.
    Quote Originally Posted by Serenegoose View Post
    Nobody's ever lost sleep over being called a cracker.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    And my point was more just that she looks more like a beautiful rich girl rather than a hardcore killing machine (at least, during the flashback). So it probably isn't "She got blowed up during a war and was reconstructed".
    She or whoever paid for the whole package must have shelled out a pretty penny, at least going by CP's lore. That doesn't look like a patchwork job. She's not a booster or a street solo. Might be a high profile bodyguard or an assassin.

  18. #98
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Squiz's Avatar
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    Pfff, she clearly is a housewife, just look at those implants. She must be cutting cucumbers like a machine.

  19. #99
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    From an ign article:
    While it’s not clear exactly how artificial modification will fit into the gameplay of Cyberpunk 2077, CD Projekt RED managing director Adam Badowski provided some insight into how commonplace body modification is in Night City.

    “In 2077 as we imagine it, technology will be so advanced that implants will fit in the tip of a needle, making modification easy. The decision to change will therefore be largely aesthetic and ostensibly harmless. Realskin synthetic skin looks real but is better than real. It’s soft, it has pores that subtly release sweat, but it is so much more. It’s amazing, those who adopt it look like pumped, modified dolls, because they are perfect, or some version of it. When people choose modification, they’re making a statement, they’re expressing a preference.”

    “When somebody walks around with a chrome hand, it’s not because there’s some underlying technology that makes their hand look like that. It’s because they think chrome hands look cool. When somebody has a leg with servomotors, it’s because they choose to look extreme (like the best new carbon fiber bike). And their choice is completely based on style, it extends and enriches their style. You’ll get access to a rich arsenal of firearms, but if you want to have blades because they look cool, go for it. All these elements will make it into Cyberpunk 2077. 'Style Over Substance' is our core theme, after all.”

    When you start the game you’ll create a character from the ground up and then experience Night City as a totally open world setting. CD Projekt RED seems committed to providing as few obstacles to exploring the setting as possible.
    “Both the city and game world will be vast,” said Badowski. “We don’t want to make a game where, for instance, you close off a street because a quest needs to play out there. Ours will be an open world, you’ll feel the vastness of what surrounds you, you’ll feel that you’re there and you can go forth and explore. That’s the feeling I had when playing GTA or even older games like Nomad Soul. I’m sure I wasn’t alone. Personally, I dislike playing through a mission, turning left and not seeing a thing, or worse, seeing some car blocking my way. That’s done for game purposes, but we want to find another way for Cyberpunk 2077.”

    The city is being designed so it doesn’t look like a purely futuristic metropolis. Older elements of buildings will be mixed in with more modern structures to make it look like the city was built in layers to create a more realistic, Blade Runner-esque style. Badowski commented, “It’s important to show that the city was not built in a day.”
    There’s also a significant amount of detail built into the weapons used in the trailer, which CD Projekt RED credits to some degree to one of its concept artists who’s obsessed with guns. Pen and paper Cyberpunk fans may recognize the Militech Crusher, though also note that its form has changed. According to CD Projekt RED, this is part of a natural progression of weapon use over time.

    “This reflects an actual trend in firearms development,” said Badowski. “The Colt 1911 was designed and introduced in 1911, but it’s still used as the standard issue weapon by many military formations around the world. Of course, it has been modified, it’s made of superior materials, but the basic design, the mechanics, are the same as they were a century ago. Why wouldn’t there be a Militech Crusher in 2077? Of course, it would be more powerful, made of superior materials, have an improved targeting system, etc., but carrying one would also be a stylistic statement, not unlike Ocelot wielding a Colt Model 1873 in MGS. Make no mistake, we’ll also have energy-based weapons and other treats most often associated with the Japanese cyberpunk style, but we won’t forget the fundamentals.”

    The trailer ends with the message that Cyberpunk 2077 will be released “when it’s ready,” but in the hidden text a tease that on February 5, 2013 CD Projekt RED will start talking about its other role-playing game, which “is much closer to being completed” and “will also be a fully open world game with an intense story. You can probably guess the game we’re talking about.”

  20. #100
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Zephro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unaco View Post
    I'd disagree... I think she is being judged... fictional character or not. She's not wearing much, therefore she is a sex object, rather than a woman who has chosen to dress like that, or a woman regardless of what she's wearing. And you're also making assumptions that the 'authors' are men, and that there are no women involved. Can a man not represent a woman in charge of her sexuality without it being negative in some way?
    Ok well we disagree there, I think the author is being judged. I said likely men not definitely, also that doesn't follow that men can't produce representation for women in charge of their sexuality at all.

    What I have said is that I'm concerned the creator pulled out the bewbs and knickers (without much context as to why) to draw a male audience's attention. Especially as there's no backstory what so ever to defend the idea that the character chose to do so.

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