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  1. #41
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    well either way, I hope people had fun, and didnt think they were just being jerked around willy nilly.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

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  2. #42
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    I was in Bravo all night until I logged at about 10ish GMT.

    Personal reflection on it -
    We had good fun and held some bases strongly. At one point we were cut off from the warp gate but were managing to keep NC at bay from their own facility. Then we got called back.

    The tank platoon - I'm not entirely sure what the point of this was. We seemed to just become one massive Lib pilots wet dream at how few skyguard we had and how many tanks we had. And we never seemed to use them for much other than transport.

    Other squads - I had no idea beyond the first twenty minutes what any other squad was doing. This made it difficult for me to understand how attacks where being coordinated, why there was one or two random lads from alpha or delta with us and what the overall goal was.

    Bravo squad - So many times people kept wandering away from the SL or not listening to orders and following them through. It seemed to get worse as the night went on.

    Overall I don't think it was that successful of a night, at least up until the point I left. The only bases we (bravo at least) seamed to capture where unguarded or had maybe one or two guys tops. Whenever we did come up against moderate to heavy resistance the plans seemed to go to hell.

  3. #43
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    Yeah, it was quite annoying to see that some forces snuck us by and kept capping territory behind us, and when we faced too much on one point, they all left by the time we got our tanks out and attacked in force. Very annoying. Either way, I think Im going to suggest a change of scenery next time, instead of capping losing then recapping again all the time. Thats what the Zerg should do, if there were one.

    I have to add though: we were mostly alone on that section, so all the territory taken by vanu, were mostly our wins, not by any zerg or other public idiots. the only reason we had to jump back, retake old stuff, then head in again, was that they decided to go into full annoy mode, instead of just meeting us head on or keeping key facilities.

    Also, additionally, maybe the overflow squad should stay on defence mode, to jump to wherever is needed to keep the others fighting safe.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

    "It's frankly embarrassing. The mods on here are woeful."

    "I wrinkled my nose at QC being a mod."

    "At least he has some personality."

  4. #44
    Network Hub laldy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaCat View Post
    Yeah, it was quite annoying to see that some forces snuck us by and kept capping territory behind us, and when we faced too much on one point, they all left by the time we got our tanks out and attacked in force. Very annoying. Either way, I think Im going to suggest a change of scenery next time, instead of capping losing then recapping again all the time. Thats what the Zerg should do, if there were one.

    I have to add though: we were mostly alone on that section, so all the territory taken by vanu, were mostly our wins, not by any zerg or other public idiots. the only reason we had to jump back, retake old stuff, then head in again, was that they decided to go into full annoy mode, instead of just meeting us head on or keeping key facilities.

    Also, additionally, maybe the overflow squad should stay on defence mode, to jump to wherever is needed to keep the others fighting safe.
    the idea of a Garrison Unit to consolidate gains is a good one. Perhaps its leader could be referred to as Mr Hat?

  5. #45
    Lesser Hivemind Node NickWhite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by laldy View Post
    the idea of a Garrison Unit to consolidate gains is a good one. Perhaps its leader could be referred to as Mr Hat?
    "Mr. Hayuuut."

    tumblr_lawuqeGXDp1qa86w2o1_500.jpg

  6. #46
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    noted.

    10char
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

    "It's frankly embarrassing. The mods on here are woeful."

    "I wrinkled my nose at QC being a mod."

    "At least he has some personality."

  7. #47
    Network Hub Orius's Avatar
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    I'm not quite sure why Bravo was so unwieldy when compared to when I led Charlie before this time. I'd actually really like to hear some feedback in case people feel there was anything I could have done differently, but I tried to be as clear as I was able about what to do and what was going on.

    On that note, I felt it was somewhat difficult to get a good grip on the overall intention and that I had to piece together the big picture myself as I recieved new orders which may have led to some feelings of being jerked around at times in the squad and making it somewhat difficult to offer strategic advice as the situation went on. You could call it a kind of tactical tunnel vision. I completely understand that the situations can change rapidly and how much of a pain in the hole it can be to keep tabs on things as a PL, but it was somewhat disheartening on behalf of my squad to, for example, some times have to change destinations back to where we just came from up to three times back and forth. I wonder if perhaps being constantly outnumbered may have led to people start disregarding orders out of frustration as well.

    So in conclusion I would perhaps like to see some more detailed briefing before we move out or regroup (ideally as a PL shout to everyone), and more of a followup about larger goals to SLs in case of paradigm shifts so we can operate more efficiently and confidently as a platoon and allowing SLs to offer better guidance when we know better what we're looking for.

  8. #48
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    you are but a lowly sergeant in the eyes of vanu. You do not need to know the Plan™.

    That being said, it was a seriously tedious fight at times, and Ill try to tell y'all why the fuck we have to double back. (though, if one squad is defence squad, that might not be necessary anymore)

    EDIT: also, you can use my name, this is my personal PL strategy thread after all

    It's MY GREAT EXHALTED LEADER, HERR OBERSTURMTRUPPENFÜHRER! only not.
    Last edited by QuantaCat; 21-01-2013 at 06:48 PM.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

    "It's frankly embarrassing. The mods on here are woeful."

    "I wrinkled my nose at QC being a mod."

    "At least he has some personality."

  9. #49
    Network Hub Orius's Avatar
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    Oh, make no mistake, I was referring to your specific outings :P All I'm saying is that we had more inter-leadership communication as an ongoing thing when Ridebird held the leash a couple of weeks ago and it was easier to do my job as a result of that. But obviously you aren't at fault for people not listening to orders and that didn't exactly make things easier. It worked alright for the first half, though. That's why I wonder if people simply lost faith in us as time went on and I'd still like to hear what they thought went wrong from their angle.

  10. #50
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    Oh, make no mistake, I was referring to your specific outings :P All I'm saying is that we had more inter-leadership communication as an ongoing thing when Ridebird held the leash a couple of weeks ago and it was easier to do my job as a result of that. But obviously you aren't at fault for people not listening to orders and that didn't exactly make things easier. It worked alright for the first half, though. That's why I wonder if people simply lost faith in us as time went on and I'd still like to hear what they thought went wrong from their angle.
    Yeah but the thing is, I specified that I rely on the SLs to relay information, because I dont want to be in everyones face every time we go to the next objective. Just in yours
    If I wasnt clear enough to you and the other SLs, Ill seriously try to be more so, and if were about to tackle a large target, Ill do a shout. (as well as tell people what to concentrate on)
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

    "It's frankly embarrassing. The mods on here are woeful."

    "I wrinkled my nose at QC being a mod."

    "At least he has some personality."

  11. #51
    Network Hub Orius's Avatar
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    I tried to relay (and as far as I can recall, did) as much information as I could, but it was at times difficult to know exactly what I should look for so I could give the best possible updates and tactical advice as I was able to due to being a little confused myself about what was going on in the big picture from time to time. What I'd like is just a clearer idea of the general direction you're taking us, as that allows us to see where our squad would be best suited at the time, and help you with some of the workload as well. In essence, we should just get better at communicating and being less worried about administrating. Granted this is probably something that will get ironed out over time, but it's useful to know where the bottlenecks are.

  12. #52
    Lesser Hivemind Node NickWhite's Avatar
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    Right. Following feedback from several people in squads i've lead and from what i can gather from Orius and others' feedback, 'people' ie. squad members would like to be more aware of the bigger picture during an outing.

    So, put yourself in the shoes of one of the averege Joe-raffes during a Thursday Night. Or indeed a new recruit on his/her first outing. What's it like for them during an outing. Well, if my experiences are anything to go by, it's more often than not just listening to their SL. With spatters of tactical related chit chat and a few cursewords. Which is fine. But is it something that is going to make them want to come back again next week?

    Their priority that evening is to get stuck into the action, preferably in an organised and tactical way. Maybe to make friends, introduce themselves, blahblah. They dont want to fanny about for ages at warpgates or in sunderers, be neglected communicatively, to be ran around in circles... They want to know the their objective in refrence to the plan and go about completing it, in a purpley giraffeish kind of manner. They want it to be a cool experience. Not a completely frustrating waste of time and effort. Non of us like that. Not when we know how brilliant StratGir can be and especially if said party is a new recruit.

    So, to them the PL is someone who clearly is highly regarded within the outfit. Even more than the SL they can hear barking at them in Giraffe. The PL is someone who knows what they're doing/saying and holds a bit of authority in terms of the outfit. So why not add a bit of accessibility for the PL.

    Add the individual squad channels to your whisper list.
    Giving you the option to broadcast to any (entire) squad would have many benefits...

    - Communicating directly to the squad:
    What the plan is, what the plan is reletive to the squad/s and what they need to achieve to complete the plan. This helps the average 'Joeraffe' grasp what might be going on. If he understands that his current squad objective is vital then he might raise his game, it starts to become a more personal experience for him knowing that it's come right from the horses, or in this case, giraffes mouth.

    - Rallying & Inspiring:
    No, i'm not taking things to seriously. For example. If you can see/hear from their SL that Bravo squad is wavering and not doing very well in the face of a zerg, you can directly tell them to hold because you're sending them some reinforcements with some added encouragement. Also, moment specific broadcasts for when the platoon is in much closer proximity. Forming on smoke/beacons/making a combined stand.

    - Priority shouts:
    I know from experience that SL's can easily miss important things because theyre forced into the think of the action. So for example: As PL, if your plan involves setting up Sundies around the point and you can see Charlie is the last to arrive at the cap, then it would be common sense to say "Charlies 3&4, you two go and get sundies and deploy to the north and east. The rest carry on..." Sometimes SL are inundated from catter from both whisperlists and cant hear either PL of their squad. Not to mention explosions, gunfire etc. So, if 2 Sundies are key to your plan; you havent heard back from Charlie SL; or you dont see any Sundies then it gives you the power/right to get the order across yourself.

    - Praising & Belating:
    It might sound stupid, but step back and look at how much effort we put into playing this game at times. Whether it be a squad steam-rollering through a base and capturing all points quickly, C4ing a key enemy Sunderer or pinning down armour/air. Getting recognision for that at PL/SL level is going to be rewarding. Knowing that you are a much valued Giraffe. We're not robots, we're sensitive and elegent giraffes. Also, In contrast to praise, i sometimes hear of Quanta and Ridebird saying that people are "all spread out" or at least not where they should be. Now, generally speaking, you would hope the respective SL would nip that in the bud. But again, this gives the PL the option to bypass and directly challenge any asshats or bilge spewers who dont follow orders.

    Finally, in terms of cons: Keybindings for each squad channel? Though if youre a less active PL maybe that's ok for an outing if youre hanging back fromt he action. Also, i doubt the potential for it to become 'abused' as we're all decent folk of PRS here. PLs are responsible and passionate about StratGir, just using common sense as to when it would be needed is suffice. It would add another dimension to the strategic comms from the average Joeraffe's perspective.

    Looking at the bigger picture we want the outfit to grow, dont we. So we want to nurture and grow a brilliant, immersive and tactical experience. This mumble option for the PL would add to that in game buzz. Hearing your PL chime in now and then on such points i've raised above would be pretty cool. Whilst having more than enough of a strategical angle to work.

  13. #53
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaCat View Post
    Yeah but the thing is, I specified that I rely on the SLs to relay information, because I dont want to be in everyones face every time we go to the next objective. Just in yours
    I actually think I'd prefer you (or whoever is PLing) to be a bit more in my face, when I'm just playing the grunt. One of my major problems with the last couple of strategic nights (not just the last one, mind) is a lack of information regarding the overall plan, such as it is. I'd really like if the PL would announce when a squad is getting a new objective to all channels. It can't happen all that often, can it?

    Then again, that might just be me. In any case, I'd like more information of what the rest of the platoon is doing so that I can get an idea of what's going on, and what I might do to help them, if I should happen to be nearby in a plane or a tank, for instance.

  14. #54
    Network Hub Orius's Avatar
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    Getting updates for all squads every time an objective changes would be a whole lot of work and could also be disruptive. It does get quite hectic some times. I think the SLs are responsible for relaying the details of squad specifics as far as it matters to the current objective, and if that's not good enough, it's an SLs job to improve communication down the ranks as well as up. However the general strategic push is something that doesn't change all that often and could help a lot. That's my opinion at any rate.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by EsotericReverie View Post
    I actually think I'd prefer you (or whoever is PLing) to be a bit more in my face, when I'm just playing the grunt. One of my major problems with the last couple of strategic nights (not just the last one, mind) is a lack of information regarding the overall plan, such as it is. I'd really like if the PL would announce when a squad is getting a new objective to all channels. It can't happen all that often, can it?

    Then again, that might just be me. In any case, I'd like more information of what the rest of the platoon is doing so that I can get an idea of what's going on, and what I might do to help them, if I should happen to be nearby in a plane or a tank, for instance.
    Also from a grunt perspective, I feel like you might be on to something there! So long as it would not be problematic for the PL, it would really help those of us running about to feel like we are fighting as a platoon.

    Also it does seem important to know what the other squads are doing - it could help SLs support each other indirectly and it seems like having a rough idea of what is going on across the battlefield is generally a good thing (like where the enemy are tied up, where they might be heading, where they are about to get hit). Or just being able to say 'watch out, ten liberators are heading towards alpha squad', while they are still a couple of hexes away.

  16. #56
    Network Hub Orius's Avatar
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    Speaking from personal experience, whenever I receive reports of things like important troop movements with a direction, I do relay to the rest of the leaders immediately, and I spend every available down time in the maps to plan ahead, so I would know to warn that they happened to move to alpha myself. Making it a rule to relay any significant enemy troop movements up the chain of command sounds like a good idea in general, really. You never know if they're travelling in a straight line either way and they could even hit your squad after making a turn.

    I'll make a point about trying to including more info about the other squads in my future giraffe beaconing, though.

  17. #57
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    Didn't see your reply when I made mine, Orius. I realise that shouting all squad orders platoon-wide could get way too messy. If you could see each other's squad beacons there wouldn't really be an issue, but it definitely feels like you are on your own sometimes, going from objective to objective without hearing anything from the other squads.

    Maybe the SLs could mention what the rest of the platoon is doing more often? Don't want to overburden the SLs with jobs to do either, I guess good communications is the sort of thing that has to develop naturally, as a habit.
    Last edited by Rizlar; 22-01-2013 at 12:41 AM.

  18. #58
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus RIDEBIRD's Avatar
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    SLs should relay to the squadmembers.. I only shout bigger/overall plans, not specific squad orders. Not gonna change, would become a total mess and override SLs. I want SLs to weigh in on plans and to be independent.

  19. #59
    Network Hub Orius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rizlar View Post
    Didn't see your reply when I made mine, Orius. I realise that shouting all squad orders platoon-wide could get way too messy. If you could see each other's squad beacons there wouldn't really be an issue, but it definitely feels like you are on your own sometimes, going from objective to objective without hearing anything from the other squads.

    Maybe the SLs could mention what the rest of the platoon is doing more often? Don't want to overburden the SLs with jobs to do either, I guess good communications is the sort of thing that has to develop naturally, as a habit.
    I at least try to on occasion to give updates unless there's too much to deal with on the ground, and I make a point of telling the squad when I know we'll be getting backup or if we're going to be on our own for a while as the other squads are tied up elsewhere. Some times I find time to explain our role in the bigger picture as well but as I've said above, that involves SLs being very well informed to begin with and that can some times fall through either because of lack of communication or simply because things are too hectic. I'll try my best to give even more frequent general sitreps in the future, however.

    This might involve putting a slight lid on the squad chatter when we're enganged, however. The channel in Bravo could get a little bit too busy with non-essentials at inopportune times. That was probably my fault for not telling people to settle more often, however.

  20. #60
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    I was in Bravo last Thursday so I'll try give my views on it.

    Communication felt very weak overall. As a "grunt" I'd no idea what we were really doing other than following the ever moving green arrow, which you correctly stated was just getting shifted around and sometimes sent us back where we just came from. For about the first hour maybe, I don't think I fired more than a single clips worth of ammo.

    Being a "grunt" means you're always going to get the worst information available unless the PL does a good enough job informing the SL and the SL does a good enough job informing the squad. I don't think our orders were ever detailed enough and we didn't seem to have a goal. Lets go capture X base. Now lets go get Y, (we're on the way to Y) oh its captured, lets go get U base. Final points on communication, I felt the SL didn't "command" enough power in the squad, which towards the end of the night people just seemed to start ignoring the SL, though I felt enough wasn't done to get them to listen to you. The squad members need to inform the SL of important information and people absolutely need to start using proper directions of North, South, East, West. Saying "Libs coming in behind us" and "MAX near me" is useless. Depending on player locations "behind us" is different for everyone. South is always south.

    Major point here though is as someone else said before, the last few nights the grunts on the ground are more out of the loop than in, which leads to confusion and annoyance. If thinks are hectic pull the squad together for 30 seconds, give the plan, move out. Implement the use of getting the squad to respawn and wait at a location, give the plan, move out.
    Last edited by Jesus_Phish; 22-01-2013 at 09:18 AM.

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