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  1. #1
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    I heard you like NAT.

    http://tech.slashdot.org/story/13/01...nstead-of-ipv6

    This is going to become a problem.

    IPv4 is very old, and has a limit of ip's that don't suffice for today needs.
    Implementing ipv6 is hard, but backward compatibility can be even more hard.

    NAT on the ISP is a crappy solution to this, but has the obvious problem: You are not on the internet, your computer is on a lan; Another problem: You can't open ports. It will make reaching server from other lans very hard or imposible. Probably this problem can be solved for things like Skype or consoles. Can use something like hamachi (a big Virtual LAN) builtin in the console. But us, PC gamers are going to get fucked over.

    What we have to do?

    Avoid ISP's that use this tecnique, and don't fuly implement IPv6.
    Opt-out of any NAT.

  2. #2
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    The ISP stated that it's "only a test at this stage."
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  3. #3
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    I would personally have linked to the actual article, but that is just me http://www.techweekeurope.co.uk/news...working-104349
    While still full of knee-jerk reactions, it at least has information other than said knee-jerk reactions.

    While I disagree with this solution on the grounds that adopting ipv6 will result in no meaningful difference for pretty much anything (at the "user" level), I also don't immediately see how this will affect the "normal" user.
    "The internet" will still work, and any features required for gaming (port forwarding) will still obviously have to be allowed at some level, if only because ISPs aren't (that) stupid: They know that the people shelling out the big bucks for good connections have a reason for it. P2P file sharing might be a bigger issue, but... yeah.


    If anything, I kind of like the rammifications of that. Such a system would mean ISPs would need more knowledge of what ports would need to be forwarded/there would be a greater reliance on an internet protocol that allows for gaming over "standard" ports (more likely the latter, for logistical reasons). Both of which make my life a hell of a lot easier when UPnP fails me.

    Because remember: Consoles have the internet gamings too.

    So yeah, I am very strongly against this (if only because I like ipv6), but at the same time I hope this forces a standardization of sorts.
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  4. #4
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    I am scared this will create 20 years of the internet working poorly if you try anything else but the most popular consoles/services.

    Edit:

    I am not going to make another thread for just posting the episode 4 of Charley the unicorn, so this has to fit here

    Last edited by Tei; 18-01-2013 at 05:57 PM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tei View Post
    I am scared this will create 20 years of the internet working poorly if you try anything else but the most popular consoles/services.
    Which is why Plusnet is running this voluntary beta, to see if it's workable for users or not.
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  6. #6
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus soldant's Avatar
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    Until IPv6 sees widespread adoption, what else can they do? Unfortunately until IPv4 dies off hacks like these are probably going to be necessary, if we're out of addresses and IPv6 still hasn't been properly adopted then we're out of options.

    The real story here is that after all these years IPv6 support is still laughably backwards.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tei View Post
    IPv4 is very old, and has a limit of ip's that don't suffice for today needs.
    IPv4 has plenty of addresses for today's needs. The problem is they've all been bought up by the larger telecom companies which forces the smaller ISP's to try and eke out whatever scraps they can grab.

  8. #8
    Network Hub Koobazaur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archonsod View Post
    IPv4 has plenty of addresses for today's needs. The problem is they've all been bought up by the larger telecom companies which forces the smaller ISP's to try and eke out whatever scraps they can grab.
    Eitherway, IPv4 WILL run out of addresses at some point, so we might as well address (pun not intended) the problem sooner rather than later.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by soldant View Post
    Until IPv6 sees widespread adoption, what else can they do?
    What they're supposed to do - run a dual stack of IPv4 and IPv6. v6 explicitly includes this in it's design for migration purposes. Then home users can switch up to v6 when they're ready and people still on v4 still get working service.

    Unfortunately until IPv4 dies off hacks like these are probably going to be necessary, if we're out of addresses and IPv6 still hasn't been properly adopted then we're out of options.
    It won't die out if ISPs are only offering v4 and not v6 as well (as Plusnet are). Right now most of the internet backbone is v6, but ISPs are still at v4. That means that if I convert my LAN (which is probably just a case of updating firmware and flipping some switches) it's pointless as the v6 traffic will have to downgrade to v4 before it hits the ISP. Which means I still need a v4 IP allocated to me.

    Dual stacks at the ISP level are key to getting widespread adoption. Unfortunately ISPs don't seem to want to invest the money/time.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    While I disagree with this solution on the grounds that adopting ipv6 will result in no meaningful difference for pretty much anything (at the "user" level), I also don't immediately see how this will affect the "normal" user.
    "The internet" will still work, and any features required for gaming (port forwarding) will still obviously have to be allowed at some level, if only because ISPs aren't (that) stupid: They know that the people shelling out the big bucks for good connections have a reason for it. P2P file sharing might be a bigger issue, but... yeah.
    NAT breaks much more than just p2p (and p2p is already big..skype uses it for example), especially if many devices are behind one public address. Things like voip are a bitch to troubleshoot when some device doing NAT is going nuts. Then there are the security and usability issues because many services and websites use the IP to restrict running sessions to an IP. Last but not least..some users like to stream stuff from home or access home devices from afar. They need those ports open, but only one of them can be open for the public ip..

    And then there's the thing about NAT being a complete pain in the ass for anyone troubleshooting anything network related. It needs to die already.

    I dread the day the AOL model becomes mainstream again.

  11. #11
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    Popular services like skype will find ways to work with this, like relay servers. Your favorite PC indie game, not so much, and solving network problems will be harder, if sudenly our ping in a game grown to 300 ms, we are fu****.

  12. #12
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus somini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koobazaur View Post
    Eitherway, IPv4 WILL run out of addresses at some point, so we might as well address (pun not intended) the problem sooner rather than later.
    IPv4 has already run out on Asia and Europe. The US still has some, but not that much.
    http://arstechnica.com/information-t...pv4-addresses/
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