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  1. #1181
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sparkasaurusmex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    DICE are still doing annualized games. They just generally do a game, then a DLC (or four), then another game. But they still release a game's worth of content (and moneys) every year.
    The big change with DICE is mods. What is now known as Aftermath or something was once Desert Combat.

  2. #1182
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tadada View Post
    In case you all missed it, this was Nalano's elbow hitting my ribs. :D
    The permanent grudge match between planners and architects continues unabated. :P

    City governments need tax money. Forcing them to undermine their own policies (and the common good) to fluff some architect's ego - "Oh, Cincinnati is willing to give me tax abatements and all the variances I want; do you want them to revitalize their CBD instead of you? Oh my how generous you are with your development matching funds!" - is usually called blackmail.

    Quote Originally Posted by tadada View Post
    That's why I was talking all along about density to kick-start it. Critical mass density. 10-15k. :))
    And he was talking about twice that. :))
    Last edited by Nalano; 19-03-2013 at 05:03 PM.
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  3. #1183
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    I was right when I said you people are a jolly bunch. :)

    I only said
    Quote Originally Posted by tadada View Post
    gundato, why is John Ravioli jobless today ?
    and
    Quote Originally Posted by tadada View Post
    John Ravioli is jobless today because EA failed.

    Can you say that? Really? I dare you to say "EA failed" :)
    Where did I ask why? Or how long ago? Or anything else?
    Regardless of the reasons or anything else, I just wanted gundato, this time, to come to the simple understanding that

    EA failed.

    In trying to avoid it he and some of you along described actually a luxury of reasons, most of which I didn't even knew.
    And I would never have knew unless speaking with you, jolly people.
    Kiril was the only one saying it, though:
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiril View Post
    While solid, its not growth and thats what investors want, they want to be worth more money each year. He is the man in charge and he took the fall for it.
    Simple as that.

    How that goes down to SC?
    SC did nothing better than previous fails, or not enough to rise the boat again. Some even say that SC did well, it sold well, ok, but if others were fails, how many of them were sold along another free game after launch? M?
    And, btw, bejeweled ? Really? Hahaha

  4. #1184
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tadada View Post
    Where did I ask why? Or how long ago? Or anything else?
    Deepest apologies. We were trying to have a conversation and discuss things, not just ignore reason and make a soundbyte
    And, btw, bejeweled ? Really? Hahaha

    http://www.ign.com/articles/2008/08/...nits-sold-mark
    As of 2008, 25 million copies of Bejeweled were sold.
    http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/2...50_Million.php
    As of 2010 (~2 years later), Bejeweled sold 50 million copies and likely cost next to nothing to make (it is a flash game, for all intents and purposes). And that was when phones and mobile gaming were just starting to explode, so who knows what the current sales figures are.
    Also, that only includes paid purchases. The ad revenue from the free versions is probably through the roof.

    If Riccitiello were smart, he would probably have shifted EA to nothing but sports games, casual games, and mobile games. Those all have the lowest development costs and the highest returns. But, for whatever reason, he focused on also having a combination of AAA games and "innovative" titles. Hell, the biggest complaint people have with Dead Space 3 was that it tried something new and wasn't just a carbon copy of Dead Space 1 (the micro-transactions stuff only really came into play in the media).

    THis all boils back down to what I said 30 or 40 pages back: Not everything is made for and marketed to you or you or even me
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  5. #1185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    The permanent grudge match between planners and architects continues unabated. :P

    City governments need tax money. Forcing them to undermine their own policies (and the common good) to fluff some architect's ego - "Oh, Cincinnati is willing to give me tax abatements and all the variances I want; do you want them to revitalize their CBD instead of you? Oh my how generous you are with your development matching funds!" - is usually called blackmail.
    Once we both, me and you, agree on that (that the said exceptional buildings are BS) we also have to admit something: they give (real or only perceived) value to the city as an ensemble, or to that particular zone.

    That's why city councils do it. No one forces them.
    It's a win-win situation.
    The city councils rises the status of the location and overall, rises the trust in city's "welfare", economical health.
    Tourist might come and city bonds look more serious.

    When the city does not win enough of it, even Zaha Hadid* gets a nice kick in the posterior.
    Someone tried around here to do the blackmail you talk about, with her name on top of it. Did not work.

    * designer. Not architect. Mass BS creator.


    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    And he was talking about twice that. :))
    There are crazy people and then there are Beautifully-crazy people.
    I like the beautiful craziness too. :)
    Last edited by tadada; 19-03-2013 at 06:51 PM.

  6. #1186
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    I've always been impressed by the amount of risks EA takes when it comes to new IPs. In this console generation I can't think of any publisher whose taken as many risks on new IPs as EA have.

    *EDIT*

    For anyone wondering, here's a quick list of new ips and franchises that EA released since 2007 (the start of our current generation) that aren't based on
    a) older series/reboots
    b) movie/book/tv licenses
    c) board games
    d) iOS only games

    APB: All Points Bulletin
    Army of Two
    Brütal Legend
    Create
    Crysis
    Darkspore
    Dead Space
    Dante's Inferno
    DeathSpank
    Dragon Age: Origins
    Dragon's Lair
    Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning
    Mirror's Edge
    Shadows of the Damned
    Shank
    The Saboteur
    Spore
    Skate

    By comparison here's Activisions output of new ips since 2007
    Blur
    Prototype
    Last edited by Jesus_Phish; 19-03-2013 at 06:55 PM.
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  7. #1187
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus_Phish View Post
    I've always been impressed by the amount of risks EA takes when it comes to new IPs. In this console generation I can't think of any publisher whose taken as many risks on new IPs as EA have.
    Yeah, I've always actually liked EA for that, even as I simultaneously curse them for many of the things they have done/still do.

    All those companies EA bought and killed: They were attempts at trying to gauge the feelings of gamers and move in those directions. Maybe they changed too much for the sequels or maybe gamers just "grew up", but EA was taking risks.

    Hell, look at The Sims and Spore and Mirror's Edge. Maybe you don't like them (I am neutral to The Sims, hated Spore, love Mirror's Edge). No other publisher has the resources to take that big of a risk. If The Sims flopped (this was around the time when casual gamers hadn't yet swarmed to PCs) or Spore sucked (it did :p) or people found the lack of a focus on combat in Mirror's Edge to be "boring" (people are stupid), it wouldn't matter. Because EA had those sports franchises and Battlefield and the like to absorb the losses. So they could actually take risks.

    The only other company in a similar position is Valve. And even though they can absorb a failure, Valve never takes risks. They figure out what gamers want and give it to us. No real "innovation" as it were.
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  8. #1188
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    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post

    If Riccitiello were smart, he would probably have shifted EA to nothing but sports games, casual games, and mobile games. Those all have the lowest development costs and the highest returns. But, for whatever reason, he focused on also having a combination of AAA games and "innovative" titles. Hell, the biggest complaint people have with Dead Space 3 was that it tried something new and wasn't just a carbon copy of Dead Space 1 (the micro-transactions stuff only really came into play in the media).
    This, Riccitiello gave us The Saboteur and Mirrors Edge and wanted Mirror Edge 2. I want that too. Hopefully the next CEO will be the hero we need, not the one we deserve.

  9. #1189
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tadada View Post
    Once we both, me and you, agree on that (that the said exceptional buildings are BS) we also have to admit something: they give (real or only perceived) value to the city as an ensemble, or to that particular zone.
    That will never happen. Pistols at dawn.

    City councils accept because they're caught in a death spiral race to the bottom to get some - any - investment, even if it's ultimately destructive of the urban fabric or, worse, a soulless Disneyland (I'm looking at you, Renaissance Center), because if you haven't noticed, aside from New York, very few cities are actually growing. Almost all of them are actually shrinking.
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  10. #1190
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sparkasaurusmex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    Yeah, I've always actually liked EA for that, even as I simultaneously curse them for many of the things they have done/still do.

    All those companies EA bought and killed: They were attempts at trying to gauge the feelings of gamers and move in those directions. Maybe they changed too much for the sequels or maybe gamers just "grew up", but EA was taking risks.

    Hell, look at The Sims and Spore and Mirror's Edge. Maybe you don't like them (I am neutral to The Sims, hated Spore, love Mirror's Edge). No other publisher has the resources to take that big of a risk. If The Sims flopped (this was around the time when casual gamers hadn't yet swarmed to PCs) or Spore sucked (it did :p) or people found the lack of a focus on combat in Mirror's Edge to be "boring" (people are stupid), it wouldn't matter. Because EA had those sports franchises and Battlefield and the like to absorb the losses. So they could actually take risks.

    The only other company in a similar position is Valve. And even though they can absorb a failure, Valve never takes risks. They figure out what gamers want and give it to us. No real "innovation" as it were.


    Didn't realize they had that many until the teachings of Jesus caused me to look it up. Maybe it doesn't seem like a big number but I guess it's more than other AAA publishers. Not sure if Dante's Inferno is original IP? Also don't know this Army of Two.
    I hope they are not finished establishing IPs. I guess it depends on sales of this crop petering out. This has apparently happened with Dead Space, so perhaps a replacement IP is in order.

    edit- Seeing growth here in San Antonio, but I'm sure that's not representative of anything on state or national level. There are still a lot of farmers around selling their farms, I guess :P
    Last edited by Sparkasaurusmex; 19-03-2013 at 06:57 PM.

  11. #1191
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Smashbox's Avatar
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    I don't think Left4Dead was less risky than any of those FRANCHISES™ listed above.

  12. #1192
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    I've never properly realized it until now, but no wonder THQ went under with Activision bogarting all the licensed I.P!
    "Halo is designed to make the player think "I look like that, I am macho sitting in my undies with my xbox""

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  13. #1193
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    L4D is arguable. I don't remember the exact timeline and can't be arsed to look it up, but the concept of "horde mode" had been gaining popularity since the early 2000s (I think UT2k4 even had one built-in?) and everyone likes to kill zombies (not so much after the past few years, but whatever :p), so it was a pretty obvious connection in hindsight.
    That is Valve's greatest strength: They are good at gauging what the public will accept and what they can manipulate us into liking. Although, if they manage to fail at anything it will be DOTA 2 (which seems pretty dead on arrival in the mainstream gaming community).

    And I think Army of Two was based on an old franchise, but it was a drastic enough reboot that it might as well be a new IP.
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  14. #1194
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Zephro's Avatar
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    EA did have a minor creative streak around 2008-2009 but then kind of fell back on their old ways. Dragon Age and Dead Space have been slowly sucked of all their creativity really.

    Also I want Dante's Inferno removed from that list. It was just a God of War clone but killing a piece of literature I like.

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    @Zephro, Yeah, the cutscenes were just terrible (Dante as a crusader?), but considering the source material is allegory anyway, it's pretty easy for remakes to cast the setting particulars any number of ways. I thought the gameplay was pretty good for the first third - and then they ran out of new enemy types. As deriviative as it was, it dispensed with all of the silly weapons that GoW insisted on foisting on players, paring it down to two that played fairly differently.

  16. #1196
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sketch's Avatar
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    I think for risk taking and actual IPs I prefer Ubisoft to EA, but I do still like some of the franchises EA began. Dead Space's hud/UI is a great thing.
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  17. #1197
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Smashbox's Avatar
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    Update:

    Traffic patch posted today -

    http://forum.ea.com/eaforum/posts/list/9381430.page

    Stil no Cheetah speed

  18. #1198
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sketch's Avatar
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    Wait, Cheetah speed is still down? O_o
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  19. #1199
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Xercies's Avatar
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    Actually I don't think EA failed I think the insane shareholder thing of always needing growth is what scuppers probably all companies I'm sorry but that can't happen and probably causes so many problems, no a business can't be stable they must always be going further, getting bigger profits, getting bigger games. No wonder many game companies are havign a hard tiem if this is the insane task there being given.

  20. #1200
    Lesser Hivemind Node Shooop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zephro View Post
    EA did have a minor creative streak around 2008-2009 but then kind of fell back on their old ways. Dragon Age and Dead Space have been slowly sucked of all their creativity really.
    EA's case is an odd one.

    They obviously had some talent bouncing around in the studios they absorbed but I'm guessing they all fell victim to the curse of shareholders. Activison sees such great returns from their sequel mills because they recycle the same assets to save money. Even when EA got behind a new IP they usually found a way to somehow ruin it with stupid design decisions that most of the time mimicked Activison's games.
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