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  1. #1261
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Smashbox's Avatar
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    Sadly, I thing the venerable Fung is down for the count:

    http://www.fungwahbus.com/default.html
    http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/b...y-of-fung-wah/

    We'll see, of course. These days I just go for the Bolt (drivers read English road signs, cheap-ish, no chickens, and no mandatory breaks at a Chinese Buffet somewhere in CT.)

    Lucky Star soldiers on. AFAIK

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fung_Wa...rtation#Safety

  2. #1262
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smashbox View Post
    We'll see, of course. These days I just go for the Bolt (drivers read English road signs, cheap-ish, no chickens, and no mandatory breaks at a Chinese Buffet somewhere in CT.)
    I don't like the Bolt. Variable pricing, variable schedules, and not once have they gotten me to Boston in 3.5 hours (including mandatory break!)

    I think Fung Wah will make it out fine: They have deeper pockets, they have an unlimited supply of customers - this whole fiasco did not even make a dent in the people waiting at the foot of the Manhattan Bridge - and this crackdown's actually cleared out a lot of their lesser competitors (whose buses are now butting into the intracity Chinatown routes, much to the chagrin of the van companies.)
    Last edited by Nalano; 21-03-2013 at 09:13 PM.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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  3. #1263
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Smashbox's Avatar
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    At least you can jump out at any point!

  4. #1264
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tadada View Post
    Very interesting subject, this one, for Paris citizens, where the exact opposite happens (well, highrises are not replaced, but there are not many highrises to begin with).
    The "ethnic homogeneous" communities, other than french of course, get bigger and bigger, dislocation the "ecosystem" around them.

    The idea of added value trough variety does not fit the same with them.
    I'm not decided on this. Your thoughts ?
    The French are racist-ass bastards. Another word for those "ethnic neighborhoods" you speak of are ghettos.



    We have those kinds of ghettos too:



    Those aren't "growing pains." Those are "keep the darkies away from where we can see 'em."

    Two things:

    1) That ain't melting pot. That ain't even stew. That's salad bowl.

    2) Ghettos aren't neighborhoods. They're stigmatized hellholes caused by rendering their residents unable to better their lot or move elsewhere. Redlining and public housing kill neighborhoods' ability to better their lot because A. You can't fix shit because you can't afford to nor get loans to, and B. You won't fix shit because you don't own that shit to begin with. Exclusionary pricing and prejudice forbid them from moving elsewhere.

    Ghettos can turn into neighborhoods, but only once you've taken the political and social boots off the throats of the people who live there. But it's so much easier to turn a neighborhood into a ghetto.
    Last edited by Nalano; 21-03-2013 at 11:46 PM.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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  5. #1265
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    Well, I didn't want to interrupt you guys unwinding memories, but I can see from this post too that you guys are a step behind. Correct me if I'm wrong.

    When you speak of the chinese "towns" popping up all over the place, growing and all that (it's the same with my example, Paris) those are not yesterday's chinese towns, those are a new breed.
    And they are not going for the ghettos, they are going for the borders of the inner city.

    Those new "towns" are things bought with money from home.
    They are the new enterprise investments.
    They are the direct link for the import merchandise and the result of the money everyone of us, regardless of geographic location, have payed them for the last 10-15 years.
    The people filling them are first generation immigrants, they came with contract already.
    They are very polite, orderly, quiet and hard working.
    They are army.

    I don't know if America is seeing this kind of events, but out here every capital city has it's share of it (maybe London not, you people there are too damn expensive. YET :D )
    It's nothing to complain about really (well, unless you're french, as you said), they even pay taxes if you catch them red handed (no one really does). :)

    It's just "a thing", an observation.
    The chinese had a different idea about resolving city overcrowding than you and me discussed :D

    Edit: why build/manufacture home and then sell to intermediaries (with access to markets you only read about)? When u can simply move 1-2000 people at once, buy a factory inside that market (EU, my example) and start doing the same shit all over, only cutting intermediaries, transport and imp/exp taxes ?!*

    *big grin, with a shiny sparkle on a front tooth :D
    Last edited by tadada; 22-03-2013 at 02:21 AM.

  6. #1266
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    Just one thing.
    I linked victory to all those games (especially the original tower defense) but I forgot about something.
    The nicest casual video games probably seen on this planet (oau, yes, overstatement).
    Machinarium
    http://machinarium.net/demo/
    it's predesesors
    Samorost 1 and 2
    http://amanita-design.net/samorost-1/
    http://amanita-design.net/samorost-2/
    and the latest:
    Botanicula
    http://botanicula.net/

    All of them from those crazy Amanita dudes (I don't know what they smoke, but it's got to be good stuff).
    They are not free (the point of my post back there) but if you are ever gonna pay for casual games and it's not those games, then there's something terribly wrong with your story.

  7. #1267
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tadada View Post
    When you speak of the chinese "towns" popping up all over the place, growing and all that (it's the same with my example, Paris) those are not yesterday's chinese towns, those are a new breed.
    What the fuck are you talking about? Are you equating Flushing to Clichy-sous-Bois?

    I know you're kinda airheaded about these things, but damn. Here, ten points if you figure out why Crown Heights is a better comparison:



    Quote Originally Posted by tadada View Post
    I don't know if America is seeing this kind of events, but out here every capital city has it's share of it (maybe London not, you people there are too damn expensive. YET :D )
    Nooo, London doesn't have ghettos.



    Quote Originally Posted by tadada View Post
    It's nothing to complain about really (well, unless you're french, as you said), they even pay taxes if you catch them red handed (no one really does). :)


    Dunno what you're talking about.

    Quote Originally Posted by tadada View Post
    It's just "a thing", an observation.
    The chinese had a different idea about resolving city overcrowding than you and me discussed :D
    But then, neither, perhaps, do you. Case in point, who was talking about overcrowding?

    Quote Originally Posted by tadada View Post
    Edit: why build/manufacture home and then sell to intermediaries (with access to markets you only read about)? When u can simply move 1-2000 people at once, buy a factory inside that market (EU, my example) and start doing the same shit all over, only cutting intermediaries, transport and imp/exp taxes ?!
    Because public housing cannot be owned, and is therefore a permanent transient population, with no incentives to foster community and few means to escape. Those developments were built to be prisons for the poor, and forever shall they remain.
    Last edited by Nalano; 22-03-2013 at 03:29 AM.
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  8. #1268
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    Maybe I was not clear enough.

    Those "towns" i was talking about, are "china towns" = neighborhoods inside European capitals (and not only capitals, port cities too). They appear as mushrooms after the rain.
    Public houses can be and are privately owned, in Europe.
    The public services not only rent them, they could be sold too at a fair price.

    The new "from the box" population first defuses into those neighborhoods, buying whatever it's available on free market (apartments, shops, whatever) after which they "consolidate" around big commercial malls their chiefs own.
    Or around a manufacture business (yes, sometimes manufacturing facilities sit around the inner cities, before the suburb sprawl begins engulfing the horizon).

    I don't think I will ever see people from those new china towns rioting.
    They have a debt to pay toward those "facilitating" the immigration (those owning the central business of that spot) and somehow that keeps them from anything antisocial.
    They simply can't risk anything.

    The pictures you posted are from gettoes with 2'nd or 3'rd generation migrants, mix ethnicity and no perspectives.

    As I posted already: La Haine is a movie exactly about that.
    It was made before the brits got the hang of it.
    The politicians were totally clueless when it hit them.
    Probably still are.
    Last edited by tadada; 22-03-2013 at 03:43 AM.

  9. #1269
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    What the fuck do chinatowns have to do with anything other than an aside between me and Smashbox?

    All you're doing is displaying a stunning lack of understanding as to the difference between an neighborhood and a ghetto.

    Quote Originally Posted by tadada View Post
    I don't think I will ever see people from those new china towns rioting.
    They have a debt to pay toward those "facilitating" the immigration (those owning the central business of that spot) and somehow that keeps them from anything antisocial.
    They simply can't risk anything.


    Quote Originally Posted by tadada View Post
    The pictures you posted are from gettoes with 2'nd or 3'rd generation migrants, mix ethnicity and no perspectives.
    Who the fuck was talking about immigration? Also, mixed ethnicity? In order:

    African-Americans
    Afro-Carribeans
    Franco-Algerians

    That wasn't so hard, was it?
    Last edited by Nalano; 22-03-2013 at 03:43 AM.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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  10. #1270
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    Quote Originally Posted by tadada View Post
    Very interesting subject, this one, for Paris citizens, where the exact opposite happens.
    The "ethnic homogeneous" communities, other than french of course, get bigger and bigger, dislocation the "ecosystem" around them.
    In your terms I was referring to gettoes eating away the neighborhoods surrounding them.
    Smashbox was referring to china towns, it's a very particular example, the one I continued to talk about.

    Edit: Anyway, if boozez are mixed in our discuttion, I might have the (unfair) advantage of being 1-2 beer bottles ahead of you.
    And I haven't seen any Manhattan riot pictures yet, which is disappointing, somehow.
    Last edited by tadada; 22-03-2013 at 04:31 AM.

  11. #1271
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    Edit: Anyway, if boozez are mixed in our discuttion, I might have the (unfair) advantage of being 1-2 beer bottles ahead of you.


    I'm confused when alcohol entered the frame here.

    Are you trying to backpedal by implying that you're drunk-posting?

  12. #1272
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    I'm offering a polite explanation to our radio broadcasts mixing in a cacophony.
    Last edited by tadada; 22-03-2013 at 04:56 AM.

  13. #1273
    Well that escalated quickly.

  14. #1274
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tadada View Post
    In your terms I was referring to gettoes eating away the neighborhoods surrounding them.
    Smashbox was referring to china towns, it's a very particular example, the one I continued to talk about.
    BUT THEY'RE NOT GHETTOS

    Quote Originally Posted by tadada View Post
    And I haven't seen any Manhattan riot pictures yet, which is disappointing, somehow.







    Last edited by Nalano; 22-03-2013 at 05:31 AM.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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  15. #1275
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Last edited by Nalano; 22-03-2013 at 05:36 AM.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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    "His lack of education is more than compensated for by his keenly developed moral bankruptcy." - Woody Allen

  16. #1276
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    Finally we're getting somewhere.
    I'm just looking for the right Bill Hicks quote for this but not getting any.

  17. #1277
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Zephro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    Nooo, London doesn't have ghettos.


    Well Tottenham definitely isn't a Ghetto, which is where that photo was taken. The riots are probably a bit more complicated than racial ghettos. If you find the list of places in London where it happened in almost all of them they are inter-mixed areas in terms of wealth. It's been an important social policy in London for a long time that the councils run social housing right next to affluent areas so people are equally mixed and few bits of town truly have no low wage earners.

    The 80s race riots were down to ghettos in Notting Hill and Brixton, but those areas are way more diverse these days. Notting Hill used to be an utter sink hole, now it's populated by rich yuppies of all races who take pride in the Jamaican style carnival.

    Anyway for such a diverse city (less than 50% of London is white british now) I think we do a fairly good job of it. Compared to Paris at least, well that's not hard. We're just way more concerned with class warfare.

  18. #1278
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zephro View Post
    It's been an important social policy in London for a long time that the councils run social housing right next to affluent areas so people are equally mixed and few bits of town truly have no low wage earners.
    It doesn't really work that way, tho. Hell, the places with the highest crime are when you have a concentration of poor people right next to a rich district. The Amsterdam Houses right behind Lincoln Center, for instance, are surrounded by Gold Coast condominiums on all sides, and kids from Harlem commute in to Martin Luther King high school two blocks away, but it is not a "mixed" neighborhood by any stretch of the imagination.

    Several blocks down, you have a concentration of SROs in Hell's Kitchen next to historically preserved luxury apartments. Oil and water.

    As for diversity, New York is less than 50% white, too. But that's city-wide. You have to go deeper.

    As for classism, classism and racism (too) often go hand in hand, as was the case during the Tottenham riots. They started pretty much how our race riots start: With the death of a minority at the hands of the police. And Tottenham's seen this episode more than once.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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  19. #1279
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Zephro's Avatar
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    I don't really know much about New York.

    However the latest census data does seem to show that the ethnic mixes are way more evenly spread out in London than they a) used to be or b) than quite a few other cities. What are you defining as a neighbourhood though? We don't have blocks and things so we just rely on the mental maps in our heads, Tottenham still isn't an ethnic ghetto though by any normal use of the term. White British people are in a small minority there but it's more to do with income.

    As far as I remember Tottenham has since it twice, the other being around 30 years ago in the 80s. When things were far worse.

    Anyway London > Paris.

  20. #1280
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zephro View Post
    However the latest census data does seem to show that the ethnic mixes are way more evenly spread out in London than they a) used to be or b) than quite a few other cities.
    Sure. London is a great city. But it's still not as egalitarian as you seem to imply it is, and it's not just a class issue.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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