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  1. #1
    Network Hub bad guy's Avatar
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    Mechwarrior: Living Legends 0.7 Final Release

    The developers of the award-winning mod "Mechwarrior: Living Legends" are forced to end production, due to a conflict of interests with Mechwarrior Online. A final update (0.7) has now been released trying to get as much more content as possible into it, as no further content is allowed in from now on.

    The mod has had an active player base for over 3 years now, and I hope there will still be people playing it for a few years. Therefore I would like to promote MWLL with this post.

    My favorite videos:
    Official Trailer
    Walking with Giants
    Fan Trailer
    Fan made video
    Music Video

    and images:
    Last edited by bad guy; 19-01-2013 at 08:36 PM.

  2. #2
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Conflict the of interest my arsenal, they realised the free mod outclassed their pay2win and sniped it. No support means infinite hackers.

    Shame neither will now live up to the genres potential.

    Why no aircraft control :-(
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  3. #3
    Network Hub bad guy's Avatar
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    We will never know what exactly happened, until both sides stop dancing around the truth, and give us the straight facts. But both are -understandably- avoiding any type of conflict/damage.

    I agree that MWLL outclasses MWO, so yeah, it certainly points to that direction.
    Last edited by bad guy; 19-01-2013 at 08:38 PM.

  4. #4
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    Never knew about LL till way late and never picked up Crysis. Still need to one day.

  5. #5
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    ... There have been statements from MWO and M:LL that there's no big conspiracy here, actually. See http://www.mechlivinglegends.net/201...he-founders-3/ and http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/914...wll-situation/

  6. #6
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus coldvvvave's Avatar
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    When I played MWLL last time( two years ago I think) there were like 50-100 players and 2-3 active servers every time I logged in. Not many and usually playerbase shrinks after original release, right? I doubt MWO had any losses because of MWLL so the idea of MWO developers somehow destroying MWLL is kind of crazy to me. Thats something like "DICE kills Point of Existence because all three peopel who play it didn't buy remium in BF3". Tinfoilheaddery.
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  7. #7
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    Who owns the IP to Mach Warrior? Does PGI have an exclusive license in it? If so I don't understand the problem, fan boys gonna fan boy, if you are paying money to own an IP and another group isn't paying anything yet still is using the very same IP you have every right to be pissed.

  8. #8
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    A shame, given how much better MWLL is than MWO.

  9. #9
    Network Hub bad guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimTheDog View Post
    ... There have been statements from MWO and M:LL that there's no big conspiracy here, actually. See http://www.mechlivinglegends.net/201...he-founders-3/ and http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/914...wll-situation/
    Neither of them give a reason why development has been stopped.
    With so much in the pipeline, plans for 0.8, the team rushing to get everything possible into 0.7., it doesn't seem like the MWLL team decided to end development of the game themselves.

    The way I see it:
    MWLL (Wandering Samurai) has a non-profit licence for the Mechwarrior IP from Microsoft.
    MWO (PGI) has a licence too now and are making money so I guess they are paying MS royalties.
    Money-people make a money-decision.
    MWO and MWLL must comply.

    MWLL is an ambitious mod made by highly-skilled Mechwarrior-fans, for free.
    Further development has been stopped indirectly by the arrival of money-making MWO, which many see as the vastly inferior Mechwarrior game. Of course MWLL people are very sad/angry about this.

    Play MWLL !

    Last edited by bad guy; 19-01-2013 at 09:48 PM.

  10. #10
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    MWLL was great but they made some very odd design decisions and the mod wasn't balanced in the slightest, it just revolved around getting kills to level up and get increasingly powerful mechs or vehicles.

    And don't get me started on the elementals D;

    I did play it two years in a row though, and had some amazing times with the people on there. I loved it dearly and it filled a mech shaped hole in my heart that Microsoft wouldn't fill whikle PGI where held up with Harmony Gold.

    And besides, its just a mod. It was never a commercial venture and now there is a commercial Mechwarrior venture and a bloody good one at that, MWLL becomes immediately less important.

    These people need a break. A mod might be free but it isnt F2P. We couldn't have expected them to go on forever.

    Say what you want about F2P, but MWO has been the first ever Mechwarrior games to actually balance light mechs and make them trully relevant within the videogame side of things.

  11. #11
    Lesser Hivemind Node Nullkigan's Avatar
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    MWLL was the better game but had a harder edge (fuck aero forever). MWO is the more popular game and faster to get into.

    MWO is less pretty, less detailed combat, etc etc. but you don't get dunked and spend 50 minutes having un-fun when the other team stacks and races to the assaults before you can get out of mediums. MWO really, really needs a TC style game mode; conquest with a single life is pretty much identical to assault.

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Swayze View Post
    And don't get me started on the elementals D;

    ... but MWO has been the first ever Mechwarrior games to actually balance light mechs and make them trully relevant within the videogame side of things.
    Whaddya got against angry bees? Wait, did you just diss my MWLL Uller? My Puma? My RAVEN?!

    We's gotta have WORDS.

    Shit, the MWO netcode is so bad you can have a team of Stalkers alphaing a commando and doing nothing. At least in MWLL you could buy a C3 light and make bank no matter how bad your connection was.
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  12. #12
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    MWO is way prettier!

    Yes LL has some colourful maps but PUHLEASE the mechs have always looked messy.

    MWO is only 15 months or so into development too, LL has been at it a lot longer so obz it has more game types etc.

    Those mechs you listed just werent useful past the start of the game unless you were in a really organized team. I only saw them as there for grinding.

    I do like MWLL longer range combat though, except for when some team got a gauss dog doing the rounds too early into a game.

    Did love their bushy though <3 Best bushy since the starter in MW3.

    And dont get me started on netcode. Do you not remember how SRMS used to just dissapear?

    MWO is very special, and will probably end up deeper than MWLL in the long run. Afterall its making serious bank.

  13. #13
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus mashakos's Avatar
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    the fan trailer is WAY better than the official trailer! wth

    Sad news. I was waiting for a single player campaign or bot battles myself, especially because I have a logitech g940 - seems like a perfect fit for this type of game. Sad to see this go. Too bad this game isn't so popular, otherwise the cease and desist order would have resulted in a huge backlash against MWO...
    Last edited by mashakos; 19-01-2013 at 11:29 PM.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad guy View Post
    Neither of them give a reason why development has been stopped.
    With so much in the pipeline, plans for 0.8, the team rushing to get everything possible into 0.7., it doesn't seem like the MWLL team decided to end development of the game themselves.

    The way I see it:
    MWLL (Wandering Samurai) has a non-profit licence for the Mechwarrior IP from Microsoft.
    MWO (PGI) has a licence too now and are making money so I guess they are paying MS royalties.
    Money-people make a money-decision.
    MWO and MWLL must comply.

    MWLL is an ambitious mod made by highly-skilled Mechwarrior-fans, for free.
    Further development has been stopped indirectly by the arrival of money-making MWO, which many see as the vastly inferior Mechwarrior game. Of course MWLL people are very sad/angry about this.

    Play MWLL !
    First and foremost there has not, nor has there ever been, any legal action or threat of legal action leveraged against the MechWarrior: Living Legends development team. This was an assumption of a small amount of volunteers based on incomplete information.
    To clarify, the decision to discontinue development of MechWarrior: Living Legends was made by the founders and owners of the project. On behalf of all the people involved in MechWarrior: Living Legends we must sincerely apologize to all parties affected by this miscommunication.



    Again there was no combative relationship between MWO and MWLL, nor was there a cease and desist letter given.
    Also in the PGI thread: http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/914...0#entry1754550

    Since I'm being quoted here I feel obligated to clarify some misconceptions.

    PGI is not at fault, and Russ shouldn't be taking blame for this. He's trying to run a successful business and should be encouraged to pursue monetary gain for the IP they've paid for. If anything, as stated earlier, we knew the end would come at some point and for the most part we're happy to have been given any leeway at all. Under normal circumstances things don't happen so admirably between parties and Russ is a great guy who to the best of his abilities supported our endeavor.

    ... <snip> ...

    Part of the problem here is that I was not informed enough to make the statements that I did and my statements were clarified in private by the founders which is why I retracted those posts to begin with. I put out a series of half-truths that I believed to be fact based on the knowledge I had at the time which was not 100% accurate and caused negative repercussions I didn't foresee. It was a negligent oversight on my behalf of which I accepted responsibility for my actions.

    I appreciate that you want some kind of conspiracy theory to explain it, but there isn't one. And making one up like that is, well. It doesn't exactly make you look good.
    Last edited by JimTheDog; 20-01-2013 at 10:22 AM.

  15. #15
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Good PR involves hiding that you are curb stomping the free product that outclassed your pay2win. I must complement them on their pr. There is no published reason mwll had to end development, so an unpublished reason exists.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heliocentric View Post
    Good PR involves hiding that you are curb stomping the free product that outclassed your pay2win. I must complement them on their pr. There is no published reason mwll had to end development, so an unpublished reason exists.
    Maybe they just wanted to finish?

  17. #17
    Network Hub bad guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Swayze View Post
    Maybe they just wanted to finish?
    Maybe not:
    We here at Wandering Samurai Studios would also like to inform you of our list of incompletions.
    These are features, assets, and game-play mechanics that are at various stages of development but will never see the light of day due to recent events. We thought you, as our community, would like to know what you will not have just as much as you’d like to know what you will have. These items listed below were other milestones we planned to meet that we did not have time to finish by this final release but were notable based on our long-term goals. All of these items had substantial work done but were left incomplete.
    Game Features:
    - MechLab
    - Aerospace HUD
    - BattleArmor Claw
    - Revised Buy Menu
    - Revised Launch/Start menu
    - User Selectable Ammo Types
    - Full Damage/Impact sound set
    - External Destructible Equipment Slots
    - Finalized Internal Damage Components
    Playable Assets:
    - Kodiak
    - Marauder
    - Commando
    - Schrek Tank
    - APC variants
    - Hunchback IIc
    - Mobile Field Base
    - Anhur Aerospace
    - Xerxes Aerospace
    - Kharnov Aerospace
    - Svantovit Hovercraft
    - Alacorn Assault Tank
    - Commando Light ‘Mech
    - Swiftwind Scout vehicle
    - Corona Heavy Battle Armor
    - Phalanx Heavy Battle Armor
    Game Modes:
    - Capture the Flag game mode
    - Planetary Assault game mode
    - Team Domination game mode
    Maps:
    - Cold Steel
    - Scorched
    - Palace Gates
    - Cavernous
    - Wildlands
    - TC_Ascent
    - TC_Breach
    - TC_Clearcut
    - TC_Enkeladus
    - TC_Extremity
    - TC_Harvest
    - TC_IndustrialRiverbed
    - TC_Ridgeline
    - TC_Tremors
    - SA_Vesuvius
    Sound:
    - In-game ambient music
    - MWLL specific F-key radio dialog
    - Unique sounds for each mech including ambience and movement/torso sounds
    - Replacement sounds for every crysis weapon/asset
    - Dialog for events: under 5:00 minutes, under 20 tickets, etc
    - Replacement sound for all the subpar ticks, warnings, beeps, etc
    - Elimination of sounds cutting out
    and:
    MWLL Art: The Uncompleted



    @JimTheDog
    As you may have seen, I underlined the word why.
    No explainations have been given.
    Last edited by bad guy; 20-01-2013 at 02:25 PM.

  18. #18
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    I'll keep my tinfoil hat on for now.
    I'm failing to writing a blog, specifically about playing games the wrong way
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  19. #19
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    Hey ya'll I was a level designer for MWLL here to clear some things up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Swayze View Post
    MWLL was great but they made some very odd design decisions and the mod wasn't balanced in the slightest, it just revolved around getting kills to level up and get increasingly powerful mechs or vehicles.

    And don't get me started on the elementals D;

    I did play it two years in a row though, and had some amazing times with the people on there. I loved it dearly and it filled a mech shaped hole in my heart that Microsoft wouldn't fill whikle PGI where held up with Harmony Gold.

    And besides, its just a mod. It was never a commercial venture and now there is a commercial Mechwarrior venture and a bloody good one at that, MWLL becomes immediately less important.

    These people need a break. A mod might be free but it isnt F2P. We couldn't have expected them to go on forever.

    Say what you want about F2P, but MWO has been the first ever Mechwarrior games to actually balance light mechs and make them trully relevant within the videogame side of things.
    You should try it sometime again! The game is vastly different than what it was even 6 months ago, especially with this new version (which has some bugs and minor issues, but luckily there is a hotfix on the way to address them).

    The balance with light mechs is very good in MWLL, especially since many of them bolster a huge sensor suite. It's important to know how to play the mod well as well - this is one of the big downsides of us not finishing for 1.0, is that we never got a proper tutorial on how to actually play implemented. Sure you can just hop in a mech and shoot stuff, but you'll be disconnected from the larger strategy the mod has and you'll always be stuck in lower-teir assets, frustrated at how somehow vets in the game can manage to to use any mech, even the hovercraft, and then end up with an Atlast 25 minutes into the match. This video (among others) will help A LOT in figuring out what to do:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dHrfhMD-V8

    It's simply important to realize that lighter assets (and as such, those with less firepower) require different playstyles to do well with. You goal in a lighter asset isn't to get a bunch of kills but to act as a support role, and working with teammates (because a 3 light mechs, hell even 2, WILL completely dominate a massive assault mech that one player is using that costs x4 more than those light mechs), etc. In MWLL it's less important to get kills and much more important to your score (and your Cbill count) to deal damage, act as support, etc. Kills still help a lot (you get a bonus on anything you helped kill, and a larger chunk of that bonus if you did the kill, not to mention larger assets like Atlas's will reduce the enemy's tickets by a much larger amount), but most players end up at the top of the scores by not focusing entirely on kills and simply using their role well. Light mechs are great at hit+run tactics, and they are also good late game because nobody is going to bother shooting at an owens when a much more dangerous Mad Cat is right next to the owens.

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Swayze View Post
    MWO is way prettier!

    Yes LL has some colourful maps but PUHLEASE the mechs have always looked messy.

    MWO is only 15 months or so into development too, LL has been at it a lot longer so obz it has more game types etc.

    Those mechs you listed just werent useful past the start of the game unless you were in a really organized team. I only saw them as there for grinding.

    I do like MWLL longer range combat though, except for when some team got a gauss dog doing the rounds too early into a game.

    Did love their bushy though <3 Best bushy since the starter in MW3.

    And dont get me started on netcode. Do you not remember how SRMS used to just dissapear?

    MWO is very special, and will probably end up deeper than MWLL in the long run. Afterall its making serious bank.
    Again, try playing it again! The mod is nothing like this now. I've not had netcode issues for at least 8 months or so, and there have been big strides and improvments in 0.7.0 itself to make even the most nortorius of weapons (UAC20's for example) register hits properly even if you have a bad framerate.

    Also, beauty in is in the eye of the beholder. MWO has some things that in my eyes look better simply because they are a commercial studio that has much better capability to get stuff like that right. In other ways, I think MWLL looks better. The maps for example (depending on which one you play on, because MWLL had mappers contribute with a wide variety of skillsets) look absolutely gorgeous while in MWO they look decent but ultimately muddied under the massive amount of shaders that they pump into that game.

    And mechs always looking messy? Again, it seems like you are judging the enitre mod based off of the first version. I don't see how you can say they look messy :P I do think MWO's mechs animate better, but that's only because they fake cockpit views so you don't have to worry about the animation being too much for the player. Meanwhile MWLL's cockpits are all actual geometry the player sees, so if we animated our mechs like MWO, it would be impossible to actually aim or see anything. A small sacrifice in making the mechs look cooler when running, in the name of realism I guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by mashakos View Post
    the fan trailer is WAY better than the official trailer! wth

    Sad news. I was waiting for a single player campaign or bot battles myself, especially because I have a logitech g940 - seems like a perfect fit for this type of game. Sad to see this go. Too bad this game isn't so popular, otherwise the cease and desist order would have resulted in a huge backlash against MWO...
    The official trailer is over 3-4 years old while that fan trailer was done just in the past year alone, that's why. Plus the fan trailer was done by an actual professional who works with video :P. Plus MWLL has always suffered in the PR department simply because the devs would have rather spent time with the mod then spending loads of time with PR. We had tons of people join in for doing the PR position, but they were all pretty much awful at the job and/or ended up just disappearing after a month of being on the team.

  20. #20
    Network Hub bad guy's Avatar
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    You can now play MWLL for free, no Crysis Wars purchase required.

    All in one download over here: MWLL GO.TY Edition
    Installs with a setup.exe and also runs in 64bit
    The file is just under 6GB


    Last edited by bad guy; 13-02-2013 at 05:25 PM.

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