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  1. #1
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    [VS] StratGir: The King Is Dead, Long Live The King

    So, this was kinda glossed over during the meeting. If anyone has any thoughts on how to improve stratgir and "bring it back to what it used to be, this would be the right place.

    I'll start.

    Stratgir used to mean that only our most experienced SLs were supposed to lead during this. New members were kind of barred from SLing during stratgir, at leat until they had gathered enough experience in pling during casual nights. I think this was a good thing that might be worth revisiting, but seeing how quite a few of the experienced leads aren't consistently playing, filling the spots might be an issue.

    Another issue is that strategy used to be what decided fights, but thanks to lattice it's almost irrelevant now. So, all that matters is the execution, in other words the tactical side of things. Stratgir could be a great format for trying new stuff and to generally play with a pure tactics and squad focus. I still feel that this is incompatible with the new comms system, but that's a different topic, i guess.

  2. #2
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    Should we go with "Tactical Thirsdays" instead then, for a while at least?

  3. #3
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Boris's Avatar
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    Or do Stratgir exclusively on Amerish because there isn't a lattice there. Yet.

    Tactical Thursday sounds good, but it might be a little confusing with Tactical Training Tuesdays. Unless you spin it that the tuesday is the training for the thursday.

  4. #4
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    gave you your own thread, mqx, its worth it.

    original thread here: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/foru...organised-quot
    Last edited by QuantaCat; 08-08-2013 at 10:08 AM.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    monochrom & verse publications

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

  5. #5
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    Okay, so the next one is tonight. I'm going to be playing, since my cough denies me the pleasure of going to that dancer friend'sbirthday party.


    I'll be looking to lead a squad, to take the initiative on the "vets leading for StratGir" thing qaz suggested. I'd be most pleased if there was someone else who would want to lead a sister-squad and trying out some two-squad tactics again. Fixing/flanking, armour/infantry, assault/disrupt. Preferably, this would be done with these two squads being given orders as one unit, and using pretty tight coordination and communication between the two SLs, or even the whole squads.

    does this sound at all interesting to anyone?

  6. #6
    Lesser Hivemind Node WallyTrooper's Avatar
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    It sounds very interesting to me! Alas, I am unable to get much (any?!) PS2 time tonight so I'm out for this one.

    Re: the general point about well experienced players leading for Thursdays - that sounds sensible to me. Helps to establish Thursdays as the night for more focussed tactics, gives newer people something to aspire to (is this meta game?) and hopefully increases the chances of people getting their tactical hit and enjoyment.
    WallyTrooper = TrooperWally

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  7. #7
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    So, "Strictly vets for StratGir"... do we want to do this tonight, during New Leaders week?

  8. #8
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    Maybe "strictly mentored newbies for StratGir" tonight instead then?

  9. #9
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    RO'd for the first time in a while. It was busy. Way too busy, really. I mean, we all know this, but for ROs to be effective, the chatter needs to be limited, with a majority of the time no one saying much at all.

  10. #10
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qaz View Post
    RO'd for the first time in a while. It was busy. Way too busy, really. I mean, we all know this, but for ROs to be effective, the chatter needs to be limited, with a majority of the time no one saying much at all.
    thats why ROs used to be in a channel of their own, only able to hear the SL. Or they should have a mute button for specific channels. (which isnt supported by mumble)
    - Tom De Roeck.

    monochrom & verse publications

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

  11. #11
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Cooper's Avatar
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    Things were not great tonight.

    I didn't realise how rusty I am at leading large, multi-squad platoons.
    Quote Originally Posted by CROCONOUGHTKEY
    KING GEORGE IS A FROG
    le BANG~__-MICHEAL FUCK OFF~~__-INTERPOL KNOW YOU WELLBIENG~—
    OFF
    NOT RUSHMORE MOUNTAIN
    KILL WESTON KILL MUST KILLTHEWESTERNINMYHEADDOESN’TEXSIST
    TEXASISDEADINPARISHEWASAMAN..BINGBING.TETTOHEAD.SP ACEOK,TIMEDEADANDSTOPPED1920HOKKAIDO.UNDERSTOODAT1 ONE.
    UNDERSTANDTHISANDFUCKOFFPIRATEBAY.TIMEDOESNTEXSIST FORMEASIMPATEKPHILLPE.
    BANG

  12. #12
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    In my experience the central RO skill is listening to two conversations at once (or at least being able to filter out squad chatter enough to hear orders). Can see why a lot of people don't get on well with it.

    The other issue is PL loneliness. If they only have ROs for company, who all stay silent for the sake of each others' sanity, then it doesn't sound like much fun.

    Going kind of off topic here, soz. StratGir = good thing. Worth keeping on if only as a dedicated TacGir day (without additional strategic aspirations).

  13. #13
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cooper View Post
    Things were not great tonight.

    I didn't realise how rusty I am at leading large, multi-squad platoons.
    ... so now the people that ARE following orders are giving you problems. Somehow, that is funny :D

    You're getting old, Doctor Cooper.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    monochrom & verse publications

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

  14. #14
    Lesser Hivemind Node Ksempac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cooper View Post
    Things were not great tonight.

    I didn't realise how rusty I am at leading large, multi-squad platoons.
    I was in delta, and yes it was obvious something was wrong (though i thought it was the situation or TvA, i didn't think it was you).

    ParaTroop, first time SL in StratGir (though he is a PS1 vet), was very frustrated by the whole thing, he told us that you were constantly asking for advice in the RO channel, which made it very busy.

    Though, ParaTroop, if you read this, i really enjoyed my night in Delta squad so i hope you do it again

  15. #15
    Lesser Hivemind Node Cephas's Avatar
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    Not convinced if this should be in here or AfterActionReport but I'll put it here just now...

    I found last night a bit frustrating at times I must admit - coming from a grunt in Charlie.

    A few points I'd make

    - Having a PL also SL doesn't work well. I was in the platoon with PL as SL - the problem comes that you hear "break break" constantly and can feel a bit forgotten.
    - Comparing to Wednesday, I think because it's "StratGir" an SL doesn't feel they have much freedom.
    - Orders seemed to come through pretty muddled.

    Positives...
    - We worked very well as a squad. Jakkar and Bitmap both made sure that we went as groups. The mass pod drops were brilliant. Really shows how well we can work together.
    - Pre-bus loading. When there's a zerg/friendlies on a point that we're clearly going to cap retreating to the bus so we can set off asap is great. We need to do that more I think. It helps to keep us ahead of the zerg and arrive at places first to secure things.
    - The mass assault with light assault. Really good
    - Bitmap recognising that I (and someone else, I forget who) had pulled maxs so it didn't make sense for us to /suicide for a combined push as we could provide help already on the ground and also keeping an engi with us. Really good to see that.

    Conclusions...
    - Orders really need to come through clearly
    - Standing orders might be an idea to give SLs some room to act as they want. I.e. after taking point a you should move on to take point b at x. Then the SL can logically decide when they need to move.
    - SLs should maybe suggest actions for themselves instead of waiting to hear what the PL wants

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaCat View Post
    thats why ROs used to be in a channel of their own, only able to hear the SL. Or they should have a mute button for specific channels. (which isnt supported by mumble)
    Nope. ROs were never like that. And there'd be some big problems with making them work like that.
    The PROs on CTA 4 were like that, but it worked really badly for the split-comms platoons.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephas
    - SLs should maybe suggest actions for themselves instead of waiting to hear what the PL wants
    Suggesting actions is fine, although a bit of a pain through ROs (it works fine if the answer comes back as yes, but if the PL comes back with "why?" or modifications, it gets silly). It's a bad idea for SLs to actually lead squads off until the PL has OKed it though - you can end up with some horrible back-and-forth messing around that way.
    Last edited by CMaster; 09-08-2013 at 10:28 AM.

  17. #17
    Lesser Hivemind Node Cephas's Avatar
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    I agree CMaster, that there should of course be a tick from the PL before a squad runs off.
    Point is I'm not sure if SLs feel they can make a suggestion or not.

  18. #18
    Lesser Hivemind Node Ksempac's Avatar
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    Most problems can be avoided with anticipation : ask for new orders 1 min before the current cap, that gives more than enough time for RO to relay the message and get an answer.
    Problem arises mostly when the SL ask for orders after the cap instead of before.

  19. #19
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    Also that's kind of a job for the RO, simply requesting orders.

  20. #20
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cephas View Post
    I agree CMaster, that there should of course be a tick from the PL before a squad runs off.
    Point is I'm not sure if SLs feel they can make a suggestion or not.
    When I SL, I feel that suggesting a course of action is met with grateful acknowledgement more often than not, unless the suggestion is "bad" or the PL has something very specific in mind. This will vary between PLs of course, but most are accommodating and appreciative of SL initiative.

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