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  1. #1
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    Planetside 2 and the bulletproof bikinis of freedom

    7db90e8agw1e13gkizkzbj.jpg 7db90e8agw1e13gg0udz4j.jpg 7db90e8agw1e13gfk1c7hj.jpg 7db90e8agw1e13ge2r9lbj.jpg

    Furious fap-fest at the official forums at http://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/i...ertised.82821/ is predictably hellish and I've just about had my fill of being told that I'm making a fuss about nothing, that I'm probably one of those gays you hear so much about or that I'm a white knight out to save womankind and get some sweet feminist lovin as gratitude for my virtuous defence of their meek feeble gender.

    I'm getting on a bit now. This has resulted in me approaching these issues with the question "Would I want a daughter playing this?". Planetside 2 - no.

    I dropped a note to John & a couple of others this morning so it might take off.

    (RainorShine ingame btw)

  2. #2
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    Oh for fucks sake. That is so fucking annoying.

    Because its useless and serves no purpose.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications & The Shopkeeper, an interactive short.

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

  3. #3
    Am I understanding this correctly that PS2 is officially advertised like this in Asia? Oh god, this is horrible.

    A personal problem that I have with such news is that my first reaction is a laughing facepalm with the phrase "meanwhile in Japan" in my head. After that I'm quite embarassed of myself, but it happened. My first reaction was laughing.
    Last edited by TehK; 23-01-2013 at 01:43 PM.

  4. #4
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    Yep it's from their Chinese advertising. And a decent argument can be made that it's a third party distributor advertising in a far flung place. Except all the art assets and iconography is Sony's trademark so presumably any use went through their marketing department for the ok, and it's advertising a Sony game. National boundaries are transcended by international companies, and so is their advertising.

  5. #5
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus jaguar skills's Avatar
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    Well, yeah. If this was the Europe or US marketing departments then let's have an outrage party. But this is for the Chinese market. There's bigger issues for women in China than this and you know what? I'm going to let that go too. However distasteful I might find another cultures views it would go against my own to tell them how to live.

    Or are we supposed to be getting upset by the teenage boys approving of it? Teenagers are at the whims of their hormones and as a society we don't help by allowing our whole culture to be aggressively sexualised and then collectively not voting with our wallets to stop it. These kids are entitled and spoilt, but they're our kids so they're our fault.

    You mention the issue with your daughter but these posters are the symptom, not the disease. Entitled little white male shitheads were already gobbing off on the internet way before PS2 came onto the scene. Bearing in mind 4chan, a lot of reddit and most of gaming/nerd culture in general, perhaps the question should be would you want your daughter on the internet at all?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaguar skills View Post
    Well, yeah. If this was the Europe or US marketing departments then let's have an outrage party. But this is for the Chinese market. There's bigger issues for women in China than this and you know what? I'm going to let that go too. However distasteful I might find another cultures views it would go against my own to tell them how to live.
    It's illegal to be gay in Kenya - yet if Pepsi started using homophobic adverts in Kenya I'm pretty sure it'd affect their sales in other parts of the world. Global brand = global brand values. There aren't all that many black people in Poland but when Microsoft photoshopped out the black guy in their Polish advertising that sure had an impact on their global brand.

    Quote Originally Posted by jaguar skills View Post
    Or are we supposed to be getting upset by the teenage boys approving of it? Teenagers are at the whims of their hormones and as a society we don't help by allowing our whole culture to be aggressively sexualised and then collectively not voting with our wallets to stop it. These kids are entitled and spoilt, but they're our kids so they're our fault.
    As an ex teenage boy myself I agree entirely. And if they want to market purely to teenage boys in a way that actively discourages most other demographics that's Sony's call. I'd argue there are ways to advertise to teenagers of both sexes and folks in their 20s, 30s and up.

    Quote Originally Posted by jaguar skills View Post
    You mention the issue with your daughter but these posters are the symptom, not the disease. Entitled little white male shitheads were already gobbing off on the internet way before PS2 came onto the scene. Bearing in mind 4chan, a lot of reddit and most of gaming/nerd culture in general, perhaps the question should be would you want your daughter on the internet at all?
    I'd argue that a large part of that grotty culture is validated by advertising like this. That this sort of thing really is part of the disease and the fap-fest is symptomatic. What's the point in challenging those rather vile outbursts common on the net if proponents can just point to advertising like this?

  7. #7
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus jaguar skills's Avatar
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    I should say I've since read the thread and I'm anticipating the next argument about Sony being an international company. The problem being in the cases where we have got companies to relent it is for problems that a huge market (The West) agree on. Racism and homophobia are maligned and rightly so. But misogyny and it's definition are a lot more blurry, and collectively men and women draw their lines in very different places over here.

    Go look at Britain's best selling papers, The Sun and The Daily Mail. Your daughter was probably reeling from having her internet access cut off in my last comment, now she can't even read the news! Endless stories about child stars who are "all grown up", and Tracey, 22 from Essex who think's David Cameron is right to be tough on Europe. Getting upset with Sony for how they advertise to a different culture seems like an odd priority when our own culture is clearly so fucked up.

  8. #8
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus jaguar skills's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiniMatt View Post
    It's illegal to be gay in Kenya - yet if Pepsi started using homophobic adverts in Kenya I'm pretty sure it'd affect their sales in other parts of the world. Global brand = global brand values. There aren't all that many black people in Poland but when Microsoft photoshopped out the black guy in their Polish advertising that sure had an impact on their global brand.
    See my other comment. It's a sad truth that we just aren't as enlightened yet in the west as we like to think we are, and it's a much more complex issue than just shutting down advertising that validates a certain viewpoint. All of these issues stem from our savannah brains not adapting to modern life so well. All of our worst prejudices had evolutionary advantages, old habits die hard after 10,000 years of success so I'm skeptical of how changing advertising techniques not more than 70 years old can make real change. That sort of thing comes from within at a grass roots level, we have to educate the next generation as opposed to bullying corporations and governments to do it for us.

  9. #9
    Lesser Hivemind Node Winged Nazgul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TehK View Post
    Am I understanding this correctly that PS2 is officially advertised like this in Asia? Oh god, this is horrible.

    A personal problem that I have with such news is that my first reaction is a laughing facepalm with the phrase "meanwhile in Japan" in my head. After that I'm quite embarassed of myself, but it happened. My first reaction was laughing.
    Asia is a pretty big place with varied tastes. For instance, PC gaming is practically non-existent in Japan. These pics are for the Chinese version of the game, I believe. Being that Chinese gaming is a nascent and very lucrative market, it's not really surprising to see them catering to the male demographic like this. Can't you remember how the early advertising for PC games were similarly titillating for western audiences?

  10. #10
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    Oh I agree It's definitely a much harder one to tackle. I'd suggest that shouldn't mean we give up. The Sun & Daily Mail Online are equally dreadful in their own way and as such are the target of much (if thus far largely ineffectual) campaigning.

    I tend to come down like a ton of bricks on people wittering on about "them bloody pakis" or whatever - they can't point to adverts "Uncle Ben's Rice - the Rice Pakis would buy" and claim it's the norm. That's a lot harder when the "get yer tits out" pillocks start up as they point to, as you say, the Sun, Daily Mail Online, and now Sony and just say it's fine, get over it.

    As for cutting off kids internet it's always going to be a tricky one. I like to think the best we can do is explain that there will always be assholes on the internet. Some places like 4chan/reddit etc might be jam packed full of assholes, some places like RPS etc are quite light on them. RPS has cultured a pretty inclusive community whilst still allowing for quite heated and fruity debate - that's down in large part to their moderation and their output - their brand identity if you will. Hell even WoW with it's +1 chainmail bikinis has managed to foster a decently diverse playerbase. It's up to international corporations to decide upon their brand values, those brand values can't readily be chopped and changed for different markets.

    As a side note and illustration, can I just mention that my first time on the RPS mumble server for the valourous NC freedom fighters, someone (I forget who, Ayam, JeffJeff?) made a point to tone down the language in the channel because RainorShine had just joined and noone naturally knew if I was a kid or not. That sort of thinking, of just noting a newbie in the channel, not knowing anything about them, and calming the channel appropriately is the sort of thing RPS can be immensely proud of.

  11. #11
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    Ignoring the political side of the debate, those pictures seem a bit uncanny valley to me.
    I mean, I think that they're real women, just very heavily photoshopped, but to the point where some things seem off enough that they might not be entirley real.

    RPS is reasonably inclusive in attitude I'd have thought, but it's also vastly 20-40 white male. Some of that is just y'know, PC Gaming, but it seems so dominant that you do have to wonder just how welcoming we are to anyone else.

  12. #12
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus RIDEBIRD's Avatar
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    They look like Realdolls or however it's spelled.

    I don't see anything wrong in hating on an obvious misogynistic culture, if they have that, and I see nothing wrong with Sony acting as an example setter as a multi-national corporation.

    And sure, the demographic is surely mostly all male there as here, but that doesn't mean you have to insult the intelligence of that demographic by saying "here's this game, HAVE SOME TITS", even if it fucking sells.. Responsibility is becoming a key word for bigger corporations, and I would hope Sony follows..

  13. #13
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    actually its sexist, not misogynistic. it would have been misogynic or istic if they had a body of a woman full of blaster holes pictured. naked.

    Also, we have atleast one female member in RPS, and I would like there to be more variety in that regard. I have enough friends that are afraid to "out" as women while playing online shooters.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications & The Shopkeeper, an interactive short.

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

  14. #14
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    Again agree entirely on the photoshop disaster and my hunch is you're pretty bang on with the RPS demographic. Whether RPS is welcoming to those outside that demographic - well given I'm in that demographic I guess I can't answer.

    But I can note a couple of forum posts today on the Planetside 2 forums:
    "Holy ****! I would bukakke each and every one of those girls!" - http://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/i...3#post-1075270
    "Frankly, I now want a hot chick instead, if I am gonna have useless, it might as well look good. Skimpy top and a skirt, everytime they put the camera on her, I want her top wet." - http://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/i.../#post-1074720

    Whilst accepting that moderation is an inexact science and mods both RPS and Sony can't be everywhere I'd suggest that comments like this wouldn't really be tolerated at RPS yet apparently are at Sony. I'd further suggest that whilst both RPS and Sony communities can and do cater to male teenagers, one community is more inclusive to other demographics than the other.
    Last edited by MiniMatt; 23-01-2013 at 03:03 PM. Reason: typo

  15. #15
    Lesser Hivemind Node Winged Nazgul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaCat View Post
    actually its sexist, not misogynistic. it would have been misogynic or istic if they had a body of a woman full of blaster holes pictured. naked.
    Indeed.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertco...-zombie-torso/

  16. #16
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    (and its korea, btw)
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications & The Shopkeeper, an interactive short.

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

  17. #17
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    Oh for "#"#"# sake... why...

  18. #18
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    This is literally done with every Chinese promotional. Korean usually, too.

    You think Valve are special and eradicate this sort of fanservice completely, right? They're they're above it.
    Go check out the CS:Online website.
    http://csol.tiancity.com/homepage/event/c130123evk/ There was far worse stuff but I can't find it. Arghh. That Alice thing is actually kind of tasteful and awesome.

  19. #19
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    It's sexist, it's both a cause and a symptom of the shitty way women are treated and there should be more done to change this sort of mindless, pornographic marketing. It's not good for anyone and if we really want to change these sort of attitudes for the better we may as well start by getting rid of utterly useless crap like this.

    Here is something I heard the other day regarding how women are percieved in Korea. It's quite interesting. South Korea has one of the highest rates of plastic surgery and it's a lot more accepted there than most of the world.
    Last edited by Rizlar; 23-01-2013 at 03:39 PM.

  20. #20
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus jaguar skills's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaCat View Post
    (and its korea, btw)
    Sorry to be that guy, but weibo is a chinese site and those are chinese characters. The Korean version is still in development, although it's being handled by the same company as the chinese one, The9, so I should think the marketing will be similarly ghoulish. Though who can blame them, looking at the international success of Gangnam Style? I seem to remember the theme of that video was men are funny, and women are yoga-doing scantily clad arses to be yelled and thrusted at. The West went WILD for that shit.

    That said, I'd like to point out that these cultures aren't above whoring out their young men either;

    http://xii4.wordpress.com/2008/12/27...handsome-male/
    http://kpopcolorcodedlyrics.wordpress.com/rain/

    Of course, neither are we. Look at One Direction. Perhaps what causes us the most discomfort is that young girls look up to someone like Katie Price or Rihanna as some sort of role model but the likes of One Direction are not something most young men aspire to be. I don't think it's a case of getting rid of the trashy overtly sexualised objectification entirely and it would be naive to think that we can ever do that anyway, it just needs to be made clear that this isn't the only path a girl can take in life.

    It's also easy to think things are getting worse but bear in mind we inhabit the absolute cesspit of cultural output that is gaming. Overall, with TV/Movies like Bridesmaids and Girls being commerically viable, I think corporations as a whole are realising they don't have to chase the money of 18-30 white males to do well. I also mentioned reddit in a negative light previously but mostly those guys don't stand for much shit, when someone is out of line the wider community jumps on them quite efficiently and quickly.

    But to be honest, you're the choir, we all know the lyrics. I don't have any real solutions but this debate has happened too many times for me to think that just saying these things will make a difference. What can we actually do? Write to MP's? Sign petitions? Anyone?

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