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  1. #21
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus jaguar skills's Avatar
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    Well I for one am not going to sit here and take this anymore. I'm taking action! Let's level the playing field, check this out ladies!

    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #22
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Cooper's Avatar
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    This, like so much everyday sexism, is both depressing and annoying.

    I don't think that its positioning in a different cultural context should make anyone less angry about it though.

    Edit: I cross-posted that image to the PS2 official forums. Hope you don't ming Jaguar; managed to get it in before the lock...
    Last edited by Cooper; 23-01-2013 at 05:25 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by CROCONOUGHTKEY
    KING GEORGE IS A FROG
    le BANG~__-MICHEAL FUCK OFF~~__-INTERPOL KNOW YOU WELLBIENG~—
    OFF
    NOT RUSHMORE MOUNTAIN
    KILL WESTON KILL MUST KILLTHEWESTERNINMYHEADDOESN’TEXSIST
    TEXASISDEADINPARISHEWASAMAN..BINGBING.TETTOHEAD.SP ACEOK,TIMEDEADANDSTOPPED1920HOKKAIDO.UNDERSTOODAT1 ONE.
    UNDERSTANDTHISANDFUCKOFFPIRATEBAY.TIMEDOESNTEXSIST FORMEASIMPATEKPHILLPE.
    BANG

  3. #23
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    jaguar - my hero and Cooper for the upload to the thread, loving it

    Spotted another thread - http://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/i...omerate.82907/ - that suggests a whole damn marketing campaign around this theme.

    I realise I've been spouting out the line of "stop just marketing at teenage boys, you can market to more than one demographic" but it's actually beyond that, it's insulting to men, teenage or otherwise. As Helen Lewis noted in a piece on booth babes at the Consumer Electronics Show - http://www.newstatesman.com/helen-le...be-moments-ces - "I'd argue that their presence is also fairly degrading to men, since the reason for their existence is the presumption that men can only be interested in new phones and tellies if they are strapped to the hotpant-clad ass of an attractive woman."

    If only we could think of some way to get men interested in fast cars, flat screen tellys, computer games and jet packs. Nah, can't think of anything, better just liberally apply lycra clad silicon enhanced tits over everything.

  4. #24
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Cooper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiniMatt View Post
    jaguar - my hero and Cooper for the upload to the thread, loving it

    Spotted another thread - http://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/i...omerate.82907/ - that suggests a whole damn marketing campaign around this theme.
    I'm gonna keep re-posting JS's image.

    Whilst we can probably discuss it sensibly here, I worry for the PS2 forums. In that environment the above image works as a response on its own.
    Quote Originally Posted by CROCONOUGHTKEY
    KING GEORGE IS A FROG
    le BANG~__-MICHEAL FUCK OFF~~__-INTERPOL KNOW YOU WELLBIENG~—
    OFF
    NOT RUSHMORE MOUNTAIN
    KILL WESTON KILL MUST KILLTHEWESTERNINMYHEADDOESN’TEXSIST
    TEXASISDEADINPARISHEWASAMAN..BINGBING.TETTOHEAD.SP ACEOK,TIMEDEADANDSTOPPED1920HOKKAIDO.UNDERSTOODAT1 ONE.
    UNDERSTANDTHISANDFUCKOFFPIRATEBAY.TIMEDOESNTEXSIST FORMEASIMPATEKPHILLPE.
    BANG

  5. #25
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    Just noticed that thread got locked by the mods the moment Jaguar's bulging boxers were posted. No comment from SOE other than "This thread has passed it's usefulness".

  6. #26
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus bonkers's Avatar
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    Didn't SOE release some kind of statement with being a multicultural team, no sexism etc etc some time ago?
    I know this is not SOE but I doubt that the Chinese partner could have pulled that of without them giving their okay.

  7. #27
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus jaguar skills's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiniMatt View Post
    Just noticed that thread got locked by the mods the moment Jaguar's bulging boxers were posted. No comment from SOE other than "This thread has passed it's usefulness".
    I love it. Of all the things to be the last straw for them.

    "Just moderating this thread Nigel, making sure no bad things happen on my watch. Let's see then...
    Rating girls on degree of attractiveness, yeah that's ok...
    Sexist comment about girls not holding the gun properly, no problems so far...
    NC has largest melons, she certainly does heh heh...
    Bukkake, hmmm, bit close to the bone but I'll let it slid.. IS THAT RUSSELL BRAND??? ABORT ABORT"

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaguar skills View Post
    I love it. Of all the things to be the last straw for them.

    "Just moderating this thread Nigel, making sure no bad things happen on my watch. Let's see then...
    Rating girls on degree of attractiveness, yeah that's ok...
    Sexist comment about girls not holding the gun properly, no problems so far...
    NC has largest melons, she certainly does heh heh...
    Bukkake, hmmm, bit close to the bone but I'll let it slid.. IS THAT RUSSELL BRAND??? ABORT ABORT"
    It really does make one wonder doesn't it. It shows that mods where watching and let all sorts of crap about bukkake and wet t-shirt contests fly.

  9. #29
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    That's not necessarily true.
    The thread could well have been locked the first time a moderator looked at it. Or it could have been locked after starting out drooly but acceptable, but now seen to have gone to far.

    It's very much a false assumption to think that the last post in a thread is what got it closed.

  10. #30
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    Fair point CMaster.

    Meanwhile, I put in a support ticket under the heading "Community Standards", which I think relevant.

    My initial reaction is to go absolutely thermo-feckin nuclear at the dismissal but I shall count to ten:


    Response SOE Customer Service via Email 01/23/2013 09:44 AM
    Hey there,

    This is Operative R***. I'm sorry to hear you're having some problems with the way the game is advertised in another country. Granted, I can't read their language nor do I know who weibo.com is, but I know that's not the company that is handing that market for our company. The links to their sites are http://ps2.the9.com/index.html and http://www.the9.com/en/ps2.html and http://ps2.the9.com/media. We want to thank you for reporting this, we'll definitely look into it. Unfortunately, I'm not quite sure if there's anything that can be done about this as we can't police another website. I also wish I could answer your initial question, "Would I want my (hypothetical or otherwise) daughter playing Planetside 2?". Unfortunately, that's not a decision that I can make for another person or try to influence for another person. I wish you the best of luck in the search for answers to your question. If you have any other problems you'd like us to look into for you then definitely let us know.

    Operative R***
    Planetside 2
    Sony Online Entertainment


    Customer ******** soe via CSS Web 01/23/2013 08:58 AM

    I'm rather disturbed by this and would ask for an official consideration of the question "Would I want my (hypothetical or otherwise) daughter playing Planetside 2?"

    My answer to that question has to be "no".

    "Holy ****! I would bukakke each and every one of those girls!" - is apparently acceptable behaviour in your forums - http://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/i...3#post-1075270

    "Frankly, I now want a hot chick instead, if I am gonna have useless, it might as well look good. Skimpy top and a skirt, everytime they put the camera on her, I want her top wet." is also acceptable - http://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/i.../#post-1074720

    This contributes to what can be a hostile and decidedly uncomfortable environment. Such views are random but frequent enough and left entirely unchallenged by moderation to form a background noise of borderline mysogyny.

    This behaviour whilst not of Sony's making is however directly validated and enabled by SOE advertising the likes of which we've seen at http://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/i...omerate.82907/ and http://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/i...ertised.82821/

    The argument can, and doubtless will, be made that these adverts are for a different market. Unfortunately, a global brand has a global brand identity. Poor labour conditions might be the norm in China but that didn't stop Apple getting it in the neck for conditions at it's subcontracted Foxconn plant. Racial makeups are different in Poland but that didn't stop Microsoft taking some heat when it's Polish subsidiary photoshopped black people out of advertising.

    SOE are an international brand that transcends national boundaries. Their advertising can and will also cross those boundaries.

    Coming back to that question of "Would you want your daughter playing Planetside 2?" An environment whereby it is routinely implied in the official forums that she should be giving blow jobs or entering wet t-shirt contests. Whereby in the official advertising it is implied that her purpose on the futuristic battlefield is to don a micro bikini whilst suggestively fondling her gun?

    Would I want my daughter playing Planetside 2? No. I would ask you who are reading this, I would ask producers and execs, devs, coders and artists to consider this question.

    Yours,
    Matt *****

  11. #31
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Cooper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiniMatt View Post
    Granted, I can't read their language nor do I know who weibo.com is, but I know that's not the company that is handing that market for our company. The links to their sites are http://ps2.the9.com/index.html and http://www.the9.com/en/ps2.html and http://ps2.the9.com/media.
    That's interesting.

    If they had stated that clearly on the official forum threads, it would have helped.

    A "SOE has nothing to do with this and will look into it" would really help.

    The response isn't that bad, really. They can't police the vile responses on the forums beyond locking the thread / deleting them. Which they probably should. As for the aderts; if they really aren't from the PS2 China marketing lot, there is, as they say, bloody little they can do about it. Copyright violation on a Chinese website means it can't be dealt with.
    Quote Originally Posted by CROCONOUGHTKEY
    KING GEORGE IS A FROG
    le BANG~__-MICHEAL FUCK OFF~~__-INTERPOL KNOW YOU WELLBIENG~—
    OFF
    NOT RUSHMORE MOUNTAIN
    KILL WESTON KILL MUST KILLTHEWESTERNINMYHEADDOESN’TEXSIST
    TEXASISDEADINPARISHEWASAMAN..BINGBING.TETTOHEAD.SP ACEOK,TIMEDEADANDSTOPPED1920HOKKAIDO.UNDERSTOODAT1 ONE.
    UNDERSTANDTHISANDFUCKOFFPIRATEBAY.TIMEDOESNTEXSIST FORMEASIMPATEKPHILLPE.
    BANG

  12. #32
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    Yeah - except sina weibo is basically Chinese facebook/twitter and the9 is running their campaigns on it just as SOE US/Europe do on Facebook/twitter this side of the world.

    This is *their* advertising, using *their* trademarked art assets:

    http://ww1.sinaimg.cn/large/48e5244ejw1e13pe9c4a5j.jpg

  13. #33
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    It's insulting, this is. I know it's not aimed at us, but at a different culture, but if it is not to be seen as insulting to us, then it should probably be seen as racist instead. I fail to see how that makes it any better. Disappointing.

    Very pretty picture by the way, Jaguar! A good riposte.

  14. #34
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    Weibo is like the Chinese twitter.

    This is really normal for Chinese promotionals.

    I tried to link to something, but I guess a spam warning went off.

    Try google image searching "csonline".
    That's Valve derived, that saintly company that has avoided any sort of fanservice. That's what happens when it goes to Korean/China.

    All I can say is: What do you expect? This is how things are marketed there. It's not SoE's fault.
    Last edited by innociv; 23-01-2013 at 07:28 PM.

  15. #35
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    Wonder if they're still going to say this is not their official marketing by their official partners:
    http://ps2.the9.com/news/news/174465.shtml

    edit: updated my ticket with the following

    As you note, The9 are your regional partners and the9 are using this advertising - I refer you to their website at:
    http://ps2.the9.com/news/news/174465.shtml

    The language may not be readable but you'll see the same pictures are used as referred in the afore mentioned threads.

    So whilst I appreciate you cannot police another website, at least acknowledge that this is your official partner's website advertising your game with your trademarked art assets.


    Weibo, by the way, is a Chinese twitter/facebook.
    Last edited by MiniMatt; 23-01-2013 at 07:33 PM.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by innociv View Post
    Weibo is like the Chinese twitter.

    This is really normal for Chinese promotionals.

    I tried to link to something, but I guess a spam warning went off.

    Try google image searching "csonline".
    That's Valve derived, that saintly company that has avoided any sort of fanservice. That's what happens when it goes to Korean/China.

    All I can say is: What do you expect? This is how things are marketed there. It's not SoE's fault.
    I'd argue that just because things have been done in one way in the past or by different companies does not mean they're automatically acceptable in the present or by other companies.

    Piss poor labour conditions are the norm "over there". Didn't stop Apple US getting it in the neck when conditions in their Foxconn plant were exposed. Racial makeup in Poland is far whiter than in the UK/US, again didn't stop Microsoft having to account for photoshopping out the black people in their Polish marketing.

    I agree it's not SOE's fault but it is SOE's responsibility. They are a global brand with global brand values. Apple wanted fair employment practice to be one of their brand values. Microsoft wanted to be seen as racially inclusive as part of their global brand. Both had to work hard on it when their regional practices and third party subcontractors were found wanting. Similarly if SOE want to be seen globally as a creator of games welcoming to women (and indeed anyone who really doesn't need an eyeful of cleavage to play a computer game) their global brand likewise has to reflect that.

  17. #37
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    I don't go into the Japanese McDonalds and demand they stop putting chicken eggs on everything because it's not how we do things here.

    I think they should deal with their sexism problem on their own instead of having the iron fist of the west dictating what they do. Their own customers should be raising that issue with them, not us.
    I really think you should bring it up with the9, or whoever. Or really, you should bring it up to any Chinese friends you have, maybe on steam? Ask them what they think of this?

    I also don't think you can equate tyranical slavery work conditions that drove people to suicide with showing some paid models skin.

    I'm very happy with what SoE has done. Have you seen their original concepts? They did a good job at making sure that boobplate crap didn't end up in the actual game. Their female models are very respectable (even though the voices aren't).
    Last edited by innociv; 23-01-2013 at 08:40 PM.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by innociv View Post
    I also don't think you can equate tyranical slavery work conditions that drove people to suicide with showing some paid models skin.
    Similarly though I'm not sure one can equate local culinary tastes (Japanese McDonalds) with what could very easily be perceived as blatantly offensive sexism (or, paid models showing a bit of skin). You're right, I'm not about to start dictating to McDonalds how many eggs they put on their Big Macs in Japan - but if Japanese McDonalds started advertising quarter pounders draped in inflatable chested teenagers in swimwear and kinky boots I will damn well be noting to them that this would stop me partaking of their product in the UK.

    I concede it's easy to come across as rather imperialist and imposing of western values. I also concede a point made earlier that what defines racism, homophobia etc is fairly established wheras the acceptable/unacceptable line in the sand on sexism is a little blurrier and varied with the likes of Page 3 and the Daily Mail Online constantly chasing the silicon enhanced advertising dollar.

    Instead I approach from a global brand perception rather than the iron fist of "do it the western way or else". A company's local practice informs their global brand identity and my perception of that company and liklihood of purchasing from them is informed thus. My perception of SOE's global brand identity has taken a hit. If my perception is shared amongst others this may affect their bottom line in other markets regardless of the success or otherwise of such advertising abroad.

    It's essentially up to Sony to decide whether continuing such a tactic in the east is worth offending customers in the west and how that is likely to effect their global brand profits. Sony might consider it's worth it. They might consider it's not. And I really hope that they come to the conclusion that an alternative strategy might enable them to preserve their western brand ideals whilst effectively marketing to a Chinese demographic of both sexes.

  19. #39

  20. #40
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    but the thing is, I find it mostly annoying that they are apparently trying to appeal to an audience that is not me.

    The picture itself is just as sexist as someone selling (double) bikinis.

    Its actually a horrible mismatch of actual product, as in a lot of commercials/ads.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications & The Shopkeeper, an interactive short.

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

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