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  1. #101
    Satek has defeated CherryPhosphate in game 663654 with score 150

    Another demolition job, very well played sir!


    As an aside I've not seen anything from Majic or Gtsbaby yet. I was matched with Gtsbaby last season and saw no activity at all from them then either - are they actually playing?

  2. #102
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    Henke has won both games 662507 and 662508 whit score 90 and 140

  3. #103
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus ColOfNature's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CherryPhosphate View Post
    As an aside I've not seen anything from Majic or Gtsbaby yet. I was matched with Gtsbaby last season and saw no activity at all from them then either - are they actually playing?
    I've emailed the people who have yet to issue any challenges - or PMed them if I don't have an email address - so hopefully there should be some activity soon. Anyone who doesn't put in an appearance by the end of the season will get the old heave-ho.

    Quote Originally Posted by rodeoclown View Post
    Col - for next season, can we go back to single games?
    Playing 10-odd games a season makes it feel super-rushed.
    I don't mind if no-one else does. I like the pairs of games thing, but I understand that some (probably most!) people take greater pains planning their turns than I do so time may be short. It does mean that the much-vaunted symmetry ideal goes out the window unless we revert to Symmetric Dark Extermination, and we got bored if that before. What does everyone else think?


  4. #104
    Network Hub bonuswavepilot's Avatar
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    Hmmm... "I cut, you choose" sort of system maybe?

    So challenger creates map from both players' perspective, same as this time round, but challengee just chooses one of them to play... Thus it's in the challenger's interest to try to generate a map which is balanced, but only one game needs to be played.

    I suppose this could complicate the generation process for folks who don't like fiddling with the game creator much, though.
    Last edited by bonuswavepilot; 12-02-2013 at 02:04 PM. Reason: Another thought occurred

  5. #105
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus ColOfNature's Avatar
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    Not a bad idea - although we'd all end up with loads of unplayed matches.

    How about the challenger issues one challenge and the challengee has the choice: play the map as is, or if he feels it's unbalanced he can rechallenge on the same map but with the starting positions reversed. That way the incentive for the challenger is to be reasonable, or he might end up hoist with his own petard.


  6. #106
    Network Hub Gotem's Avatar
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    I like Col idea, it is less effort, and most of the time there will be no need to rechallenge.
    sometimes it is not even easy to notice if there is an unbalance until you start playing.

    btw. good game bonuswavepilot, I wont spoil the ending here but it was tense to the very last instant, and since double kill was enabled, a total anihilation of both teams seemed like a possible outcome, wonder what would happen in that case? a draw?

  7. #107
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    I'm not actually that worried about balance.
    Unless it's crazy unbalanced of course, but they tend to be obvious.

    I find myself seriously not wanting to start a match if I have to duplicate it (even though the effort for the duplication is trivial).
    Also, other games and work etc make me much more happy to play a small handful of matches.

    If people really want more, I'm sure others here are happy to play friendly matches too.
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  8. #108
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus ColOfNature's Avatar
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    Another question for everyone, then: how many games do you think is about right? Is 10 too many? Is 5 too few? Is 7 just right? And who's been sleeping in my bed?


  9. #109
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    I think 5 is a goodly number.
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  10. #110
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    Yes sorry been really really busy. Will issue challenges this evening before the footy.

  11. #111
    Network Hub DeVadder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColOfNature View Post
    Another question for everyone, then: how many games do you think is about right? Is 10 too many? Is 5 too few? Is 7 just right? And who's been sleeping in my bed?
    For me, 10 is too much and 5 sounds reasonable. I hardly can get myself to play if there are 8 games waiting for me, knowing that i will be there for quite a while, planning and commiting 16 turns.

    edit: It just occured to me, that i did not post my challenges.
    I made them (allthough late), i just did not post here. As i am not at home right now i can not see the game numbers, but they all have double kill. :)
    Last edited by DeVadder; 13-02-2013 at 11:04 AM.
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  12. #112
    Network Hub Maetco's Avatar
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    Please no Symmetric Dark Extermination.

    "How about the challenger issues one challenge and the challengee has the choice: play the map as is, or if he feels it's unbalanced he can rechallenge on the same map but with the starting positions reversed."

    This sounds good to me with the exception that I don't know how the challenged can rechallenge on the same map. Wouldn't it just be better to ask the challenger to rechallenge instead if the challenged feels like playing as player 1?

    If I can remember right the first season I participated lasted 3 weeks and they only last 2 now so my question is: is 2 weeks the norm? If so I would say that anything between 4 - 8 matches would be good and 6 would be perfect.

    Edit.
    I think I just understood how to rechallenge with a map that you have been challenged with. The game createds a file for the match and you can load that in the editor right?
    Last edited by Maetco; 13-02-2013 at 10:50 AM.

  13. #113
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus ColOfNature's Avatar
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    That was what I had in mind.

    The seasons officially last 2 weeks, but they always spill over into the third week of the month. The first one you were here for was a bit of a failed experiment, really.
    Last edited by ColOfNature; 13-02-2013 at 11:17 AM. Reason: commemorating my 1000th post


  14. #114
    Obscure Node Hammers's Avatar
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    I agree with the general sentiment here too. 5-6 games is definitely about right for 2 weeks. 10 was likely going to be too much for me this season if I hadn't got a good session in at the weekend.

    And I think the ideas about challengees choosing whether to play the map is a fine one. If the person making the map knows they have a chance of playing either side then it's obviously in their interest to make is as balanced as they can. Modes like Charge and Secure already have a bit of self balancing anyway with the bidding mechanic.

  15. #115
    Network Hub Maetco's Avatar
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    Yeah I've had the feeling that when I arrived everthing went to brown moist feces.

  16. #116
    I'd like to vote for 2 rounds per matchup; it eliminates any unfairness in player positioning or map generation very neatly and also allows you to learn someone's play style in one match and apply that in the next.

    Personally (speaking as someone who works 10+ hours most days) I'm fine with anywhere up to 8 games in theory. However I've not actually played that many as I've had forfeits against me in the past two seasons so maybe I'm overestimating.

    Is 6 (3 sets of 2 rounds) a happy medium for everyone?

  17. #117
    Network Hub Maetco's Avatar
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    "it eliminates any unfairness in player positioning or map generation very neatly"

    Yes but it actually leaves open another source of unfairness. Let's assume players A and B. All the matches A plays are "balanced" and all the matches B plays are super-uber-duber unbalanced except the matches against A. B loses 1 match and wins 1 match against everyone else except against A because of the unbalanced maps (let's say player 1 has the advantage). Against everone else except A it's fair because now B is just trying to lose small as player 2 and win big as player 1 and by succeeding B can come on top against everyone else. But when competing against A B has already lost half of his matches.

    My point is that even this mirror-match system can be unfair if any type of maps are allowed. If there is only 1 match per map the challenger has a clear incentive to make sure the map isn't unbalanced.
    Last edited by Maetco; 13-02-2013 at 12:10 PM.

  18. #118
    Network Hub bonuswavepilot's Avatar
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    bonuswavepilot has defeated gotem in match 662251 with a score of 60.

    You're right, gotem, it was a good 'un!

    As for number of games, I'm pretty happy anywhere up to 10...

  19. #119
    Network Hub BigBobr99's Avatar
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    BigBobr99 defeated cimethink in game 663110 with a score of 140.

    I'm a bit slow with other games, sorry guys. Will get a chance to play more come Friday and the weekend. I haven't challenged Maetco yet as well. Will do it ASAP.

    10 games per season seems a bit overwhelming, if played over the course of 2 weeks (espicially disputed, with its 12 turns) .6-8 games per season seems to be the sweet spot for me.
    Last edited by BigBobr99; 13-02-2013 at 04:31 PM.

  20. #120
    Network Hub DeVadder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hammers View Post
    (...)
    And I think the ideas about challengees choosing whether to play the map is a fine one. If the person making the map knows they have a chance of playing either side then it's obviously in their interest to make is as balanced as they can. Modes like Charge and Secure already have a bit of self balancing anyway with the bidding mechanic.
    I have said it in other threads before and i will say it again:
    Judging from all the many games i have played in this league, i find it hard to imagine that anyone creating a match would do an unfair map unless having to play both sides.
    And also, what i probably have said even more often, mirror matches can easily become rock, paper, scissors when it comes to how to open the match. That might be 'fair' as a coin flip is fair, but it does not help to determine the better player.

    tl:dr: I do not think we need to constrain ourselves that much by creating perfectly fair matches as matches mostly get decided by anticipation of the enemies behaviour and not by having an advantage in the map. Unless in extreme cases, which i doubt anyone here would create in the first place.
    Last edited by DeVadder; 13-02-2013 at 03:45 PM.
    Currently playing Supraball, Titanfall, Wildstar and Eve.
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