Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 35 of 35
  1. #21
    Network Hub Ernesto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    South of Munich
    Posts
    205
    Hmm... whatever.
    So with a boiling point of 34C it would boil constantly on a hot summer day. Ok, maybe british summers don't count ;)

  2. #22
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus mashakos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,255
    Quote Originally Posted by Ernesto View Post
    Hmm... whatever.
    So with a boiling point of 34C it would boil constantly on a hot summer day. Ok, maybe british summers don't count ;)
    that's what the condensation part of the setup is for ;)
    Steam profile
    PC Specs: I have a big e-peen

  3. #23
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sakkura's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    1,225
    Quote Originally Posted by mashakos View Post
    that's what the condensation part of the setup is for ;)
    Well that part wouldn't work with ambient temperatures above 34 degrees.

  4. #24
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus mashakos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,255
    Quote Originally Posted by Sakkura View Post
    Well that part wouldn't work with ambient temperatures above 34 degrees.
    The condensation apparatus, whether a radiator or a peltier condenser, absorbs the heat from the evaporated gas.
    There won't be a situation where the liquid has completely evaporated and turned into a cloud of gas stuck in the radiator - at least if the setup is done right.

    In any case, air cooling has a delta of 20C or higher (20 above ambient). An air cooled PC would die in a room that has a temperature of 40C (who likes to sit around in an oven anyway?).
    Steam profile
    PC Specs: I have a big e-peen

  5. #25
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sakkura's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    1,225
    They don't have a peltier condenser in there as far as I can tell, it's just air cooled. So it can't go below ambient.

    And saying an air cooled PC would die in 40C temperatures is just wrong.

  6. #26
    Network Hub Ernesto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    South of Munich
    Posts
    205
    Quote Originally Posted by mashakos View Post
    The condensation apparatus, whether a radiator or a peltier condenser, absorbs the heat from the evaporated gas.
    Actually, the condensation apparatus doesn't absorb anything. All the energy that is transferred from the vapor to the condensation apparatus has to be transferred further to the surrounding air. But in order to do that, the ambient temperature has to be lower than the temperature of the vapor. If this is not the case the vapor gets even hotter. And that's not what we want, don't we?

    Cheers!

    By the way: PCs even run in india. They have to. Where else should all the excellent programmers come from :D

  7. #27
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus mashakos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,255
    Quote Originally Posted by Sakkura View Post
    They don't have a peltier condenser in there as far as I can tell, it's just air cooled. So it can't go below ambient.
    I'd go with a fan cooled radiator myself. The important aspect of this system is not the boiling point (the cpu temperature routinely goes above 34C) but the condensation. From experience I know that a radiator and pump loop usually cools water coolant to 10C above ambient with a fan running at 900RPM on the radiator. It goes down to 7C above ambient when the fan ramps up to 1500RPM or so. For situations where the ambient temperature is above 25C the system would have to incorporate a condensation mechanism that operates at below ambient temp. Interesting, I'll have to think about such a system that doesn't involve a peltier condenser.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sakkura View Post
    And saying an air cooled PC would die in 40C temperatures is just wrong.
    idle temp would be 60C, load would shoot up to 85C-90C. Wouldn't die immediately but over time...
    Steam profile
    PC Specs: I have a big e-peen

  8. #28
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    4,814
    At a recent conference, I talked with a few guys who are in charge of data centers/"super computers" at various government labs (and one guy who we were pretty sure worked for Google but wasn't attending in a professional capacity) on cooling and the like.
    Submersion cooling is cool (hee hee) but has severe drawbacks.

    Submersion cooling in particular works REALLY well for things that generate a lot of heat and are almost never touched. Why? It has the same "problems" as liquid cooling cranked up to 11. If you have to regularly remove and inspect components (so not us, but definitely "industry"), you need to redo the seal on the tubes every time. While not a horrifying ordeal, it definitely adds to the difficulty and lowers efficiency.

    As mentioned, submersion cooling cranks that up to 11 because now you either have to drain it or (if you have the right kind of connections and the right kind of liquid) reach under-liquid and fiddle with crap without making a mess (so probably still draining it :p).

    So it basically boils down to ease of maintenance VS costs and more and more these facilities are being built from the ground up with cooling in mind. Over the next decade or two we might see a shift to submersion, but the big issue is the long-term viability (as has been discussed).

    Of course, for the consumer it is overkill. Nifty, but overkill.
    Steam: Gundato
    PSN: Gundato
    If you want me on either service, I suggest PMing me here first to let me know who you are.

  9. #29
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus mashakos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,255
    Quote Originally Posted by Ernesto View Post
    Actually, the condensation apparatus doesn't absorb anything.
    I didn't elaborate but that is obviously what happens :D
    Either passively or helped along with a fan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ernesto View Post

    By the way: PCs even run in india. They have to. Where else should all the excellent programmers come from :D
    pretty sure Indians don't swelter in the humidity, idle temps with air conditioning are usually below 20C.
    Steam profile
    PC Specs: I have a big e-peen

  10. #30
    Network Hub Ernesto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    South of Munich
    Posts
    205
    I don't get your last reply. By idle temps you mean room temperature or CPU temperature? Because if it's a CPU temperature I don't see that happening unless cooled with a Peltier element, which is really pointless. And if it's a room temperature it's a pretty steep gradient from below 20C inside to 30C outside and I doubt that it's common in India (it'd be pointless too, imho).
    To the original topic: It's certainly an eye catcher. And that's all it is. Because it's also very impractical.

  11. #31
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sakkura's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    1,225
    Quote Originally Posted by mashakos View Post
    idle temp would be 60C, load would shoot up to 85C-90C. Wouldn't die immediately but over time...
    Psh, with a good air cooler you don't get a 20C delta at idle, nor a 45-50C delta at load. At least not with a typical CPU (an overclocked FX 8350 might be a problem).

  12. #32
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus mashakos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,255
    Quote Originally Posted by Ernesto View Post
    I don't get your last reply. By idle temps you mean room temperature or CPU temperature? Because if it's a CPU temperature I don't see that happening unless cooled with a Peltier element, which is really pointless. And if it's a room temperature it's a pretty steep gradient from below 20C inside to 30C outside and I doubt that it's common in India (it'd be pointless too, imho).
    To the original topic: It's certainly an eye catcher. And that's all it is. Because it's also very impractical.
    oh sorry, I meant room temperature. Can be much lower than 20C with central air cooling (in the range of 13C)
    Steam profile
    PC Specs: I have a big e-peen

  13. #33
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus mashakos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,255
    Quote Originally Posted by Sakkura View Post
    Psh, with a good air cooler you don't get a 20C delta at idle, nor a 45-50C delta at load. At least not with a typical CPU (an overclocked FX 8350 might be a problem).
    well you're not going to need fancy cooling on an i3 or atom processor so we're talking about cpu's with 125W TDP or higher (which end up in the 180W + range with overclocking)
    Steam profile
    PC Specs: I have a big e-peen

  14. #34
    Network Hub
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    101
    I vaguely recall many many years back seeing a Cyrix 6x86 running in veggie oil.

    Can't help but think that the age of massive cooling is coming to an end however. Massively clocked 180w CPUs only need substantial cooling because they're turning 90 odd of those watts not into pretty pixels but heat. A (physically impossible) 100% efficient CPU could have no heatsink/cooling whatsoever and run full pelt at ambient room temperature.

    Progress in the last few years and what looks to be the trend for the next few years looks significantly skewed toward efficiency. So in the future you'll still have 180 watt CPUs, but 170 of those might be used for explosions and only 10 wasted as heat. At that stage any old passive heatsink off a 386 chip may well prove sufficient cooling.

  15. #35
    Activated Node bigc90210's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Newcastle, UK
    Posts
    48
    Quote Originally Posted by MiniMatt View Post
    I vaguely recall many many years back seeing a Cyrix 6x86 running in veggie oil.

    Can't help but think that the age of massive cooling is coming to an end however. Massively clocked 180w CPUs only need substantial cooling because they're turning 90 odd of those watts not into pretty pixels but heat. A (physically impossible) 100% efficient CPU could have no heatsink/cooling whatsoever and run full pelt at ambient room temperature.

    Progress in the last few years and what looks to be the trend for the next few years looks significantly skewed toward efficiency. So in the future you'll still have 180 watt CPUs, but 170 of those might be used for explosions and only 10 wasted as heat. At that stage any old passive heatsink off a 386 chip may well prove sufficient cooling.
    Cooling with oil is funky by by no means a feasible method (unless you like replacing your hardware... frequently). The oil causes the tiny rubber seals on the caps and the likes to swell and pop. all of the oil submersion project logs on bit-tech are dogged with issues of rubber seals going on motherboards over time and popping the motherboard / other components. Its a good proof of concept, though its not a long term solution for a home user by any means

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •