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  1. #1
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    Giraffe Tactics - Requests to PLs

    I heard some gripes about our tactics last night, and I wanted to share them so we work better as a team because of it:

    - we pull out too soon, ie. we dont wait for defending a certain point.
    - lack of communication as to where we are going in general.
    - too much zigzagging back to reclaim lost territory.


    Of course, this doesnt apply to all PLs (I know the last bit was actually an annoyance of mine, simply an oversight and will have to work it into my stratgir outing next time), but are general observings of recent outings.

    Please add on to this list, so we can react/adjust accordingly.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    monochrom & verse publications

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

  2. #2
    Lesser Hivemind Node NickWhite's Avatar
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    My response to those gripes about thursday:

    "we pull out too soon, ie. we dont wait for defending a certain point." - We pulled out of defending Tawrich to soon, arguably, yes. But that was to put up a stand against the TR heading south/south west to Zurvan. Which i felt we did to the best of our platoons ability... I think i recall the outcome was that Zurvan got overrun. I toyed with the idea of capping territory around it to reduce its adjacency and attack it again, but by then the TR had started to focus more on West Highlands/Quartz Ridge. Que "zig-zagg / pull out"
    "lack of communication as to where we are going in general." - Lest we forget that everyone in a position of leadership was new to it in terms of StratGir. The squad leaders i've talked to have said that there was a lot of chatter in their squads, on top of me talking and trying to shepard them, so they found it hard to hear orders. Furthermore they probably just forgot to feed it through to the squad all the time. I can assure you that i was communicating with SL's. I just didnt want to overwhelm them by going overboard on the comms. No need to cause more stress.

    "too much zigzagging back to reclaim lost territory." - I took a defensive stance last night, apart from taking Tawrich (to keep the NC from moving anywhere else) and IndarExc (as a retaliation move to the TR armour push at West Highlands) Which again, i felt we achieved. So "zig-zagging" was inevitable. Whether or not everyone knew that was the aim of the night falls under the previous point.

    I'm the first to admit i'm no Julias Ceaser, but i only went on tactics that i've picked up on during past outings as SL.
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  3. #3
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    My gripes wasn't really specifically about last night but about stratgir in general. Sometimes people just try to do too "complicated" stuff with a bit too much micromanagement. Which can get rather frustrating since it usually fails miserably and takes up alot of time.

    Another thing we like to do is stick around for a failed defense too long so we do not have time to set up a good defense of the next base. Which is something everyone needs to learn, to be able to defend a base, especially a major base like an Ampstation you need a few minutes of setting up before the enemy gets there. If you start the defense when they already got the satellites and people inside the wall you might as well not bother at all. While if you get there early and keep them outside the walls defending an ampstation is a very effective way to stop an entire zerg despite their superior numbers.

    Last stratgir night was actually pretty good, except for the few "im not really sure what we are gonna do so we move a little there and then back and then ummm" but thats normal. Everyone does it. Me especially when im stuck commanding the platoon on a normal night So bloody good work Nick =)

  4. #4
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    "we pull out too soon, ie. we dont wait for defending a certain point"
    I think we do that a bit too much and also that we tend to go out of our way to avoid fights. At least that's what it looks to me as a grunt. I know several of the PLs prefer to keep things moving and don't want to get bogged down in one place too long, but leaving a facility about to be attacked to cap some undefended objectives is really unrewarding.

    On an unrelated point we really should stop just massing magriders or armour to take the enemy head on. It generally only leads to us getting slaughtered cause we don't bring enough AA or support, just like what happened at Tawrich (?) the other day.

  5. #5
    Network Hub Orius's Avatar
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    Someone is generally bringing a bus or two so stuffing some burster maxes in there should work quite well. And skyguards I guess, but I still don't love them that much. I agree with the comments about strategic timing as well. Knowing when to attack from a position of strength and when to retreat to a stronger position is half the battle, after all.

  6. #6
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    NOTE: I wasnt talking about any specific outings. Just a tendency some people felt should be different.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    monochrom & verse publications

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

  7. #7
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Cooper's Avatar
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    Point 2 can be addressed. The PL should be relaying intended goals to SLs. SLs should be relaying that to squads. (i.e: We are going to get vaemar, the others Chomney to arrange a push on Tumas)

    1 and 3 are entirely a feature of how Planetside 2 players right now.

    1: The best defense in PS2 is always an offense. Take those towers. If they are under siege, it is almost always a better idea to move the platoon wholesale to the next nearest tower behind frontlines. Pull libs, scythes and mags and then push back to break the siege.
    Static defenses are the biggest waste of time in PS2.

    If you are on the offense and are attacking it is often vital to be moving out as quickly as possible. I don't shy away from getting people into sundys and gals before the base has been captured if it means being in place at the next base along to start capping as soon as another flips.

    Especially at large AMP stations and tech plants. Others will repair gens. Others will deal with the faction who are trying to take back what we took from them. If we are at Firearms in sundys and gal dropping over at highroads just as Tumas flips, the TR get broken up entirely. It no longer matters if they have a satellite of Tumas, because we will have shifted the front lines.

    Don't expect to be hanging around to defend.


    2: As for 'zigzagging' a decent platoon should be all over the place. Should be always on the move. Should be proactively moving to where they can be most effective at any given time.

    Occasionally it can all get a bit cat-and-mouse and you ends up having to track back to re-take places you took 10 minutes ago. Again, this is how PS2 plays. You either surge forwards and hope that the rest of the faction hold the line behind you, or you hold the line yourself. Or you end up bogged down at Onatha, far away and cut off from your own territory whilst the TR are knocking at Havr's door.

    If you want to be constantly pushing forward, moving on in a given direction in an obstinate manner, go join a [DIG] platoon. Theyre all public. If you want to be doing something effective; expect to backtrack occasionally and expect to be moving all over the place. That is how the front lines play in PS2 right now.

    It links back to point 1. A decent enemy platoon will be doing just as I suggested; sweeping in to push and surge frontlines as fast as possible. Sometimes you find yourself fighting those outfits, which means being 'zig zaggy' on the defense. Because if you are bogged down defending Tumas it's incredibly easy for it to flip and the fight be at Moss basin / Hvar within 15 minutes if there's a decent outfit pushing out of Tumas.
    Last edited by Cooper; 02-02-2013 at 02:04 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by CROCONOUGHTKEY
    KING GEORGE IS A FROG
    le BANG~__-MICHEAL FUCK OFF~~__-INTERPOL KNOW YOU WELLBIENG~—
    OFF
    NOT RUSHMORE MOUNTAIN
    KILL WESTON KILL MUST KILLTHEWESTERNINMYHEADDOESN’TEXSIST
    TEXASISDEADINPARISHEWASAMAN..BINGBING.TETTOHEAD.SP ACEOK,TIMEDEADANDSTOPPED1920HOKKAIDO.UNDERSTOODAT1 ONE.
    UNDERSTANDTHISANDFUCKOFFPIRATEBAY.TIMEDOESNTEXSIST FORMEASIMPATEKPHILLPE.
    BANG

  8. #8
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    I disagree on the defence bit, it is sometimes imperative that we show whoever is attacking that they "shall not pass". we did that twice last night, and it worked beautimously. They (NC) were so busy fighting us, that the TR overtook them completely; this was at Jaegers Pass, so a generally great spot for holding them back.

    However, thats definitely not always, and yes, a part of defending is attacking. So yeah.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    monochrom & verse publications

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

  9. #9
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus RIDEBIRD's Avatar
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    Regarding defense you need to choose your positions. I tend to do this a lot.

    I will never ever try to defend something that is obviously not very defensible, hence backtracking. People also need to realize most larger attacks are futile to defend against in 90% of all bases. Zergs should be wittled down while moving backwards.

    Lack of communication - I try to update this a lot and I think I did it fairly well last thursday I led. I can still try to do it more I guess, because I know that it is important to feel the same purpose the PL does.

  10. #10
    Lesser Hivemind Node Dewi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NickWhite View Post
    My response to those gripes about thursday:
    The squad leaders i've talked to have said that there was a lot of chatter in their squads, on top of me talking and trying to shepard them, so they found it hard to hear orders.
    On this note could we make SL's and the PL priority speakers in mumble? this way they only have to worry about speaking over each other, and when a SL is speaking all squad voices are turned down. Is it only Cooper who has mumble privs to do this?

  11. #11
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Cooper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dewi View Post
    On this note could we make SL's and the PL priority speakers in mumble? this way they only have to worry about speaking over each other, and when a SL is speaking all squad voices are turned down. Is it only Cooper who has mumble privs to do this?
    Yeah, only I can setup priority.

    Different people have different opinions about this.

    As an SL it's good to be able to speak over your squad. But at the same time, if the PL is talking, you might miss important info from your squad. There's no way to set priority in one channel only. A priority speaker has priority whether it's in-channel or a shout or a whisper.
    Quote Originally Posted by CROCONOUGHTKEY
    KING GEORGE IS A FROG
    le BANG~__-MICHEAL FUCK OFF~~__-INTERPOL KNOW YOU WELLBIENG~—
    OFF
    NOT RUSHMORE MOUNTAIN
    KILL WESTON KILL MUST KILLTHEWESTERNINMYHEADDOESN’TEXSIST
    TEXASISDEADINPARISHEWASAMAN..BINGBING.TETTOHEAD.SP ACEOK,TIMEDEADANDSTOPPED1920HOKKAIDO.UNDERSTOODAT1 ONE.
    UNDERSTANDTHISANDFUCKOFFPIRATEBAY.TIMEDOESNTEXSIST FORMEASIMPATEKPHILLPE.
    BANG

  12. #12
    Lesser Hivemind Node Dewi's Avatar
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    Yeah I've used Priority Speaker on my own mumble channel for various things. IMO its the lesser of two evils. But then I havent PL'd or Sl'd on a Strat setup...

  13. #13
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sinister agent's Avatar
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    Unfortunately, the way the game is set up often makes head on confrontations (mainly defence) futile or at least very difficult, whereas sneaking round the back and ghost capping the neighbouring areas will either defang the attack or force it to pull out to stop you.

    You only need to look at the eternal three-way zerg over the middle of Indar on every single fucking server ever to see it. Spawning in the middle is completely futile, but the only real alternative is ghost capping a dozen surrounding areas, which is often boring and time-consuming.

    I wonder if a compromise might not work - surgical interventions, say, in a big ongoing fight, to take out a sundy and bug out.

  14. #14
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    Please decide upon and announce fallback and regroup positions sooner / more often; it's frustrating when we lose a spawn to sit watching the deploy screen as squads scatterbomb to all points of the compass.

    Cooper's point about moving out quickly is extremely valid; often we can end up rolling in too late to a sequence of lightly defended bases, particularly if we're skirting the edges of the VS zerg.

    I sometimes think we do too much waiting to load sunderers with full / almost full squads; if we're travelling several hexes then it would usually be quicker for most of the squad to redploy / hotdeploy / grab flashes whilst sundy driver plus a gunner or two rolls up the spawn.

    This would also allow the rest of the squad to relay intel on defence positions and angles of approach for the sundy to avoid when it gets there a minute or two later. If the first wave gets wiped out quickly, they can get the sundy to deploy further out, then the whole squad can regroup on it and move in as a more effective unit.

  15. #15
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    Well, let's see if ye olde patche will have an impact on the viability of defence.

  16. #16
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    Please decide upon and announce fallback and regroup positions sooner / more often; it's frustrating when we lose a spawn to sit watching the deploy screen as squads scatterbomb to all points of the compass.

    Cooper's point about moving out quickly is extremely valid; often we can end up rolling in too late to a sequence of lightly defended bases, particularly if we're skirting the edges of the VS zerg.

    I sometimes think we do too much waiting to load sunderers with full / almost full squads; if we're travelling several hexes then it would usually be quicker for most of the squad to redeploy / hotdeploy / grab flashes whilst sundy driver plus a gunner or two rolls up the spawn.

    This would also allow the rest of the squad to relay intel on defence positions and angles of approach for the sundy to avoid when it gets there a minute or two later. If the first wave gets wiped out quickly, they can get the sundy to deploy further out, then the whole squad can regroup on it and move in as a more effective unit.

    (Thanks re. auto moderate circumvention Esoteric!)
    Last edited by protorp; 02-02-2013 at 06:34 PM.

  17. #17
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    Try writing as very small post, then edit it. Seems to work for most people.

    EDIT: It'll probably pass, once you've got a few more posts in your history. It did for me.

  18. #18
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sinister agent's Avatar
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    Personally, I always deploy a good distance away from the scene if I'm rolling in with a sunderer (unless the area's already under control). If there's another sundy, they can take the risk of getting in closer and fall back to using mine if they fail, and if mine is the only sundy, it's even more important that it's safe rather than very close.

  19. #19
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus RIDEBIRD's Avatar
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    On normal nights people are very slow to react to orders and often ask about a minute later what the order is as they do not bother to check the map for the very obvious platoon WP. This is usually what slows down redeployment. People are also super slow at getting in to sundys regardless if they are marked.

    Generally, people hang around and shoot random stuff rather then react quickly and move out. This is what hampers us, not slow PL reactions. On strat nights this problem is smaller since 100% of the players are in Mumble, but I sometimes still see people after an order has been given that doesn't seem to have listened. The reason why we wait for forever for sundys to fill is because people do not move and/or listen.

    When a PL/SL speaks - you should listen. There should be no need for prio speaker - you should listen. This is very important if we want to improve on the issues that have been brought up here. I get terribly frustrated when I hear "what's the order again?" and we have 10 people hanging around at the old waypoint.

    Announcing fallback is usually done too late, I agree, and I am bad at this. I guess we should always have one, but it's generally so hard to tell hwo the battle will go that I tend to forget - sorry.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by RIDEBIRD View Post
    On normal nights people are very slow to react to orders and often ask about a minute later what the order is as they do not bother to check the map for the very obvious platoon WP. This is usually what slows down redeployment. People are also super slow at getting in to sundys regardless if they are marked.
    Even on the strat nights, Mumble is always filled with half a dozen people's ideas on what we should do - and no offense, but when four of those voices have swedish/danish/dutch accents, I find it very hard to remember which accent is the PL's and follow it!

    Also, Sundies tend to be miles from where everyone on foot is (cos y'know, put them closer and they get blown up) - especially if they're halfway up a tower or something and have to get down two flights of stairs then avoid the zerg's godawful driving to get to it (I still don't comprehend how the zerg can drive so badly/slowly).
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