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  1. #21
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    Don't know about the wider tactical issues, but the communication issue has been brought up before (regarding the StratGir setup) and the suggestion seemed to be that SLs need to be on the ball communicating everything to the masses.

    But regarding slow sunderer pickups/ movements, I have been feeling for a while that when people are too slow moving on, they should just get left behind. It seems like a waste of time waiting for several minutes to move on due to a couple of missing people. Give everyone 30 secs / a minute to get in then anyone not responding (ie telling you that they are on their way) can just find their own way there. It's pretty easy to deploy on SL or pull a flash if you are forced. So long as doing this didn't split the group completely it would speed things up and serve as an incentive to move out when asked.

    (edit for clarity: I'm not talking about no holds barred super serious strictness at all times, but more for those times when one person missing from each squad ends up holding the entire platoon back for minutes)
    Last edited by Rizlar; 03-02-2013 at 01:07 AM.

  2. #22
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sinister agent's Avatar
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    The waypoint might be obvious, but it's nestled in amongst 20 other very obvious floaing icons that you soon become accustomed to tuning out so you can see everything that's trying to kill you.

    It's all well and good saying we should always listen to one person, but frankly 90% of us sound exactly the same, and 90% of what we say isn't as immediately urgent as listening out for the decloaking of an infiltrator or whatever.

    It doesn't help that I've set out on foor for 400m after a waypoint as instructed, only for it to be changed to one 400m in the opposite direction again. I think we could do with some kind of codeword for "everyone move now", and/or have it highlighted somewhere we can read it (eg. platoon chat) in case we're busy being exploded when the order comes through.

    I do also find that we often move on long before an area seems secure or overrun. Planetside can turn up some bad cards and leave you running aimlessly around without having a good fight for entire evenings sometimes, so it's not surprising when people get caught up in the moment rather than dropping everything just as they're finally having some fun.

  3. #23
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sinister agent's Avatar
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    Yeah, I don't begrudge being left behind that much, depending on what's been happening (if I'm late because I was half a mile away spotting, I might be annoyed, but meh). I can always sui and spawn an air taxi anyway if I'm out of atvs.

  4. #24
    Network Hub Orius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danny252 View Post
    Even on the strat nights, Mumble is always filled with half a dozen people's ideas on what we should do - and no offense, but when four of those voices have swedish/danish/dutch accents, I find it very hard to remember which accent is the PL's and follow it!

    Also, Sundies tend to be miles from where everyone on foot is (cos y'know, put them closer and they get blown up) - especially if they're halfway up a tower or something and have to get down two flights of stairs then avoid the zerg's godawful driving to get to it (I still don't comprehend how the zerg can drive so badly/slowly).
    I would have thought wildly differing accents would help differentiate each person myself but maybe that's just me. And protip: you can jump down the outsides of a tower without taking any damage if you just never jump more than one level at a time, I think I do that more than use the stairs to go down.


    Also, yes, things can get chaotic in the heat of battle and you may miss out on something, which is why when you feel uncertain about what is going on, ask for a status update from your SL, or whether the waypoint is current. And you should always be keeping an eye on your minimap for enemies, so try to see if all the friendly coloured numbers are near your position. Because if they aren't, chances are you have gotten lost somewhere.
    Last edited by Orius; 03-02-2013 at 03:17 AM.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    I would have thought wildly differing accents would help differentiate each person myself but maybe that's just me.
    The problem is when they're all scandinavian/germanic ones, and hence sound the same!
    "Swans are so big, they're like the Ostriches of the bird world"

  6. #26
    Network Hub Orius's Avatar
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    But they all sound so different to my ears! :P But I dunno, it's not just germanic or scandinavian leaders either, though I'll admit (with some cheeky satisfaction) that there's quite a lot of us, so how is it when cooper, laldy, cortosis, cmaster or nick etc lead? Still accents going on here even though they speak the language natively. I just don't see how the specific accents make recognising a specific voice more difficult. Not that it matters that I don't get it, I just find it curious/fascinating.

  7. #27
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    I could seriously start doing all my PLing in a nazi voice.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

    "It's frankly embarrassing. The mods on here are woeful."

    "I wrinkled my nose at QC being a mod."

    "At least he has some personality."

  8. #28
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    Do you use the Mumble overlay? It is an invaluable tool. Mumble must be started before PS, and the overlay can be filtered to only show those currently speaking.

  9. #29
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus RIDEBIRD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danny252 View Post
    Even on the strat nights, Mumble is always filled with half a dozen people's ideas on what we should do - and no offense, but when four of those voices have swedish/danish/dutch accents, I find it very hard to remember which accent is the PL's and follow it!

    Also, Sundies tend to be miles from where everyone on foot is (cos y'know, put them closer and they get blown up) - especially if they're halfway up a tower or something and have to get down two flights of stairs then avoid the zerg's godawful driving to get to it (I still don't comprehend how the zerg can drive so badly/slowly).
    You're fairly new though. I think most people know my voice by now, but I'll introduce myself every time anyway - as should SLs. People should listen.

    I don't see what's so hard about recognizing voices, and people should be using the Mumble Overlay anyway (we should probably make this a strat requirement).

    You can always redeploy to sunderers.

    Rizlar: SLs should communicate. If they aren't, /tell the PL. Regarding leaving people behind, that's usually a much worse way to go since to be effective you need to crash in with numbers. If there's just two - three people though I will start to leave them behind so they learn.

    A minute is enough to redeploy to warpgate and get in gals. For us it usually takes five - ten minutes. That's not acceptable.

    Sinister: There is no way to miss the PL WP in the world or on the map. I don't see how this is possible unless you are color blind and it disappears against some color on the world map. You can still see it in the world.

    90% do not at all sound exactly the same. That is an issue on your part then. I can tell everyone apart and identify each person. I probably could without the Overlay, but with the Overlay on I have learned. Turn on the Overlay in Mumble.

    Waypoints and orders will update since it is not possible to see cap progress on the world map. There is currently no way for PL to know how the situation exactly is on the ground as both the enemy detected-thing and the hotspots are not very reliable. With the explosions on the map now, it should be easier to see where we are needed.

    The number one reason for having to move in an entirely different direction is because people have not deployed fast enough which made the order expire, basically.

    Regarding moving out you will see that some people here think we stick for too long, some think we should stick longer, some think we should always be moving, and some think we should always be pushing forward.

    I'd say this is up to the PL of the night to decide and try to make the best of.

  10. #30
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sinister agent's Avatar
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    If you're in a fight there's seldom any need to check the map, though. It doesn't show anything useful, barring ownership of neighbouring territories.

    I already have the mumble overlay on. It really doesn't fix much, there's enough on screen as it is, and with dozens of people on at any given time, and usernames not always matching mumble names (mine doesn't), it's really not as simple as that. Sure, after a lot of time you'll start to get used to it, but we're going to have new people coming in and out fairly often anyway, so there'll always be people having these problems.

    I fear we're at risk of making a mountain out of this molhill, but my point is just that the tools aren't all the perfect problem solvers they're being touted as. If they were, we wouldn't be having this discussion in the first place.

  11. #31
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinister agent View Post
    If you're in a fight there's seldom any need to check the map, though. It doesn't show anything useful, barring ownership of neighbouring territories.

    I already have the mumble overlay on. It really doesn't fix much, there's enough on screen as it is, and with dozens of people on at any given time, and usernames not always matching mumble names (mine doesn't), it's really not as simple as that. Sure, after a lot of time you'll start to get used to it, but we're going to have new people coming in and out fairly often anyway, so there'll always be people having these problems.

    I fear we're at risk of making a mountain out of this molhill, but my point is just that the tools aren't all the perfect problem solvers they're being touted as. If they were, we wouldn't be having this discussion in the first place.
    I agree on mumble overlay being cluttered, but Reverie said something about being able to blend in only the active mumblers.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

    "It's frankly embarrassing. The mods on here are woeful."

    "I wrinkled my nose at QC being a mod."

    "At least he has some personality."

  12. #32
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus RIDEBIRD's Avatar
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    You should have it set to only show speaking. There are about five people without matching names (including you). They have all been told to fix this as it's just unnecessary. The rest of the 40+ do have matching names.

    I don't think it's too much to ask to check the map if you don't know where to go. I also don't think it's too much to ask to keep track of who your leader is. You can do this by pressing P if you missed it in Mumble. Then you know who to listen to.

    There is a LOT of stuff to keep track of on the PL side. We have so much information to process while also trying to play. Stuff like repeating orders and waypoints for what is a small minority is frustrating and unneccessary when they can, yes, just check the map for example (you do see it). The map is also extremely useful, but I guess this might be mostly for leaders, although I encourage everyone to keep track of it.

    Regarding new players, they will learn. Most do it quickly. Again, follow the waypoint and you will be where you should be. If it seems to be in a weird spot, tell your leader. The leader probably forgot to move it.

  13. #33
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RIDEBIRD View Post
    You should have it set to only show speaking. There are about five people without matching names (including you). They have all been told to fix this as it's just unnecessary. The rest of the 40+ do have matching names.

    I don't think it's too much to ask to check the map if you don't know where to go. I also don't think it's too much to ask to keep track of who your leader is. You can do this by pressing P if you missed it in Mumble. Then you know who to listen to.

    There is a LOT of stuff to keep track of on the PL side. We have so much information to process while also trying to play. Stuff like repeating orders and waypoints for what is a small minority is frustrating and unneccessary when they can, yes, just check the map for example (you do see it). The map is also extremely useful, but I guess this might be mostly for leaders, although I encourage everyone to keep track of it.

    Regarding new players, they will learn. Most do it quickly. Again, follow the waypoint and you will be where you should be. If it seems to be in a weird spot, tell your leader. The leader probably forgot to move it.
    Yeah, just set it up and had a 30min game or so. works fine. Also dont forget to set it to overlay *beneath* the vehicle display, otherwise itll just be weird.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

    "It's frankly embarrassing. The mods on here are woeful."

    "I wrinkled my nose at QC being a mod."

    "At least he has some personality."

  14. #34
    I suggest that if the PL or SL wants everyone to respawn at the warpgate for a galaxy drop, then the appropriate wpoint should be set at the warpgate.

  15. #35
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus RIDEBIRD's Avatar
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    I try to remember that lunar, but sometimes I just say "redeploy at the warpgate" and set the WP at the next target. That might not be the best way to do it, so I'll try to set WP at WG instead.

  16. #36
    At the end of the day, it's the waypoints that tell me what to do next. A waypoint at an enemy facility tells me to capture it, and one on a friendly facility tells me to defend it. One in the middle of nowhere tells me to bring a Magrider for a hover tank stacking session.

  17. #37
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sinister agent's Avatar
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    I do have it set to to speaking only. Bowing out of this one now, as we're really not getting anywhere.

  18. #38
    Network Hub Orius's Avatar
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    With regards to not keeping track of waypoints and not checking the map, try to make it a rule for yourself to check the distance to the waypoint every time you have some downtime, say during a lull in the fighting when reloading in a corner or whatever. Also take a quick peek at the map when you die. That's what I do when I'm grunting at least.

  19. #39
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus RIDEBIRD's Avatar
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    With speaking only it shouldn't be hard to differentiate who's who. I don't think all the brits sound the same (irish, southern, northern, scottish all in there) nor do the europeans (dutch, austrian, german, spanish, greek, swedish, danish and norwegian all in there, all unique).

    I don't even think us swedes sound similar. I could try to speak more swenglish when leading if that helps to make me stand out, I guess.

    Anyway, I will try to be more clear, but this issue is not leadership only.

  20. #40
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    To be fair, sinister, you hardly play with the vanu outfit. Unless you go by some wildly other name I dont know. So lets leave it at "see you at the shooting range". My post was aimed at the Giraffes anyway.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

    "It's frankly embarrassing. The mods on here are woeful."

    "I wrinkled my nose at QC being a mod."

    "At least he has some personality."

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