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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by RIDEBIRD View Post
    With speaking only it shouldn't be hard to differentiate who's who. I don't think all the brits sound the same (irish, southern, northern, scottish all in there) nor do the europeans (dutch, austrian, german, spanish, greek, swedish, danish and norwegian all in there, all unique).

    I don't even think us swedes sound similar. I could try to speak more swenglish when leading if that helps to make me stand out, I guess.

    Anyway, I will try to be more clear, but this issue is not leadership only.
    Ja!

    My accent comments were mildly tongue in cheek - and you probably do have a point about me being a bit new!
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  2. #42
    Lesser Hivemind Node NickWhite's Avatar
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    Whilst this isnt a "request to PLs" it does involve things that have been raised in this thread.

    "No plan survives contact with the enemy"... Therefor good communication is the backbone to a good nights laser shooting.

    I agree with Ridebrd 100% on that when a PL/SL speaks - you should listen. I havn't had any problems in terms of communicating orders to my squads over the weeks. But i have found it difficult to hear PL orders over my squad chatter before. Multiple times.

    So, i have an idea that originally sprung from something i feel i could have really done with as solely a PL. To try and overcome some of the foundation level issues that are consistently raised.

    (We're all farmilliar with the current mumble StratGir format.)

    Present Formet.PNG

    What if, (in addition to the current layout) the Squad leaders (instead) had their own channel, seperate to the squad.

    The only real benifit that i've come up with so far would be not having to fight to hear over the typical vague chatter from the squaddies in your ear. The SL would be able to hear the PL and other SLs clearly and uninterrupted, at all times. Clearer thinking would lead to clearer tactics and communication (with experience) though of course, everyone who wants to play StratGir would have to add 'shout to SL' to their whisperlist.

    Consequently though, that may emphasise the squaddies to make the right decision on what is (an enemy Sundie position, armour incoming, galdrop) important enough to feed up to the SL and what isnt. ("omg that f-ing lib, the f-ing air here, jesus!", "enemy turret behind the building", "i like trains") etc etc.

    Which on the whole, would work to improve our communication as an outfit. Also, it would make it an easier, less daunting and less confusing experience for newer SL's. Whilst arguably, making outfit structure clearer (or as clear as things can be for PS2 newbies) to get the jist of.


    What ifs?:
    - You have a particularly quiet squad and nobody shouts important info to you enough, when you havnt spotted it yourself and need a sitrep.... (Maybe you need to be in the action more or improve your own awareness?)

    - Ironically it turns out that they, in turn, can't hear you over the squad constant chatter. (Though with the contrasting purple name lighting up on the overlay, (which i highly suggest everyone has running whilst in-game) along with the knowledge some people already have to voices to names, may bypass that issue).

    ^However, (and to address that last point and nicely come full circle here) if youre a SL you should try your best to simply dominate the comms when you have something to say. I've found saying specific phrases like "Ok, this is squad lead, listen up guys" - "Ok, new orders Delta" etc work very well in getting your squads full attention. Grab the Giraffe by the horns! 9 times out of 10 the whole squad will want to listen to you anyway, you just have to make certain they can and do.

    Maybe this idea would add even more clarity to a (clear enough) system. Meaning that any feedback that people wish to give either during the outing or post outing can be used, remembered and taken into consideration.

    As a SL in the past i'll admit i enjoyed the bonus of hearing everyone in your squad, as i've had no real problems in/with comms. But i do think that having the time to think quietly about things and coordinate "properly" with PL/SLs would be my priority. As it's a fundimental aspect to our outift, i think all avenues should be explored to perfect it as best we can.

    Alas, i'm almost certain that other SLs wouldnt want to roll with that idea. But on the whole, surely it improves the comms structure of the outfit?
    Planetside 2 - NickTheNegligent // Steam - Nick

  3. #43
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Cooper's Avatar
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    @ NIck

    Alternatives are a push-to-mute button (I'm fairly certain Mumble has this)

    Or annouce 'clear comms'. I've done this a few times as SL. Simply ask your squad to shut up for a bit as you're having a chat with the PL / SLs.
    In fact, SLs should probably get in the habit of stating "clear comms clear comms" before each noew order update. It's a basic way of saying "shut up, important info incoming" and avoiding any confusion as to who is speaking, if people still can't tell voices apart.
    Quote Originally Posted by CROCONOUGHTKEY
    KING GEORGE IS A FROG
    le BANG~__-MICHEAL FUCK OFF~~__-INTERPOL KNOW YOU WELLBIENG~—
    OFF
    NOT RUSHMORE MOUNTAIN
    KILL WESTON KILL MUST KILLTHEWESTERNINMYHEADDOESN’TEXSIST
    TEXASISDEADINPARISHEWASAMAN..BINGBING.TETTOHEAD.SP ACEOK,TIMEDEADANDSTOPPED1920HOKKAIDO.UNDERSTOODAT1 ONE.
    UNDERSTANDTHISANDFUCKOFFPIRATEBAY.TIMEDOESNTEXSIST FORMEASIMPATEKPHILLPE.
    BANG

  4. #44
    Lesser Hivemind Node NickWhite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinister agent View Post
    usernames not always matching mumble names (mine doesn't), it's really not as simple as that.
    You can change your mumble name to match your PS2 tag. Just right click > edit on the RPS tab and re-enter your PS2 name.

    seeeee.jpg

    In my opinion another requirement should be that everyone have matching nametags.
    Last edited by NickWhite; 03-02-2013 at 04:46 PM.
    Planetside 2 - NickTheNegligent // Steam - Nick

  5. #45
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NickWhite View Post
    stuff
    There is only so much you can do with technology. The entire point of stratgir is that we coordinate, not just PLs with SLs but SLs with squads as well. As Cooper said, Im sure you can set a button for muting channels, as well as ask them to be quiet for a bit. Of course, the button is the best option, but Ill just leave it up to everyone.

    I know I wont be stopping the entire action SLs are having just to have a quick chat about our situation, it has to be something important that I cant/shouldnt decide on my own.
    - Tom De Roeck.

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  6. #46
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Boris's Avatar
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    The problem in one of the squads I was in was that people would not shut up when asked to. It might be the heat of the battle, or just not hearing the leader call for silence. A button might be needed to block an entire channel from talking to eachother.

  7. #47
    Lesser Hivemind Node NickWhite's Avatar
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    @ Cooper

    Yeah i thought it might have that option, but i dont think it does. You can only mute yourself as far as i'm aware? Maybe only you can set that up though? If so, perhaps it could help?

    In response to that second point: Whilst my inner anarchist feels like screaming "DONT YOU TELL ME HOW TO LIVE MY GOD DAMN LIFE" whenever the SL has abruptly boomed over the squad chat "Guys, shut the hell up i cant hear PL", it may literally be the simpler thing to do.
    Last edited by NickWhite; 03-02-2013 at 05:02 PM.
    Planetside 2 - NickTheNegligent // Steam - Nick

  8. #48
    Lesser Hivemind Node NickWhite's Avatar
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    @ Quanta

    There is indeed, which is why i thought about how we could improve that side of mumble outright and just bridge over it. Rather than saying "shut up guys cant hear" and risk evolving the atmosphere of the squad stratgir comms into a superserious type thing. If you have anything of genuine importance then shout it to your SL if you dont then just have fun talking crap in the squad channel, if the squad is behaving like that. Sometimes just playing whilst talking crap and laughing about can lead to a more effective performance... In a way, it may encourage people over from PurpWed who may otherwise think it to heavy'a thing, having that comradery-ish, non serious comms part in the squad chat, whilst holding on to the StratGir principles and tactical gameplay when the SL clocks in over the channel to talk.

    It's just a system that could be implemented. I suppose it's mainly aimed at helping the SL out. Though the bi products would improve things on the whole, 'big-picture-wise'.
    Last edited by NickWhite; 03-02-2013 at 05:18 PM.
    Planetside 2 - NickTheNegligent // Steam - Nick

  9. #49
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Cooper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NickWhite View Post
    @ Cooper

    Yeah i thought it might have that option, but i dont think it does. You can only mute yourself as far as i'm aware? Maybe only you can set that up though? If so, perhaps it could help?
    There is a 'deafen self' option in the shortcuts. But it's not channel specific

    As for a seperate channel, I would be very wary of seperating the SLs from their squad chatter. Asking -everyone- to set up a 'shout' command is a bit of an ask. I have no problem requiring SLs to have to set up a series of shouts, but regular players should be able to hop into a channel with their SL and it just work.

    Putting SLs in a seperate channel puts them at a remove from what's going on. It'll cause all sorts of communication problems. It would make sense if we were running fireteams, but, as we have found out, PS2 is just about manageable with 12 people working together, no less.
    Last edited by Cooper; 03-02-2013 at 05:29 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by CROCONOUGHTKEY
    KING GEORGE IS A FROG
    le BANG~__-MICHEAL FUCK OFF~~__-INTERPOL KNOW YOU WELLBIENG~—
    OFF
    NOT RUSHMORE MOUNTAIN
    KILL WESTON KILL MUST KILLTHEWESTERNINMYHEADDOESN’TEXSIST
    TEXASISDEADINPARISHEWASAMAN..BINGBING.TETTOHEAD.SP ACEOK,TIMEDEADANDSTOPPED1920HOKKAIDO.UNDERSTOODAT1 ONE.
    UNDERSTANDTHISANDFUCKOFFPIRATEBAY.TIMEDOESNTEXSIST FORMEASIMPATEKPHILLPE.
    BANG

  10. #50
    Network Hub MitchK's Avatar
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    It was very difficult to manage cross chatter during my attempt at SL'ing on Thursday, there were a few times I had to ask for a repeat of the orders from the PL. I'd have loved a way to mute the squad for when command is talking.

    Telling people to clear comms is fine but on Thursday at least the SL's and PL's were talking for a large portion of the night, so it seems kind of unfair in a way to just have the squad sit in silence. Obviously the grunts don't know when command are talking so they don't know when to stop talking themselves, and naturally they're going to be communicating with each other on the situation on the ground, so butting in constantly telling everyone to clear would be jarring imo.
    Last edited by MitchK; 03-02-2013 at 05:44 PM.

  11. #51
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus RIDEBIRD's Avatar
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    Yeah, dont isolate the SLs.

    If we are going to use prio comms for SL/PL channel then we need to use that sparsely as it can distract quite a bit from trying to keep up with the squad. I felt that the night we used that we talked way too much in SL/PL and I was distracted from my squadleading.

    I think leaders need to be more concise/fast and try to round stuff like "where to" pretty quick so we minimize the annoying overlap of channels (I do feel my clear thinking is sometimes threatened by this). That deafen squadchannel-button would be quite handy, but in the long run I suggest we try to minimize SL/PL chat and try to wrap that up quickly and focus on playing with/leading our squads.

  12. #52
    Network Hub Orius's Avatar
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    Maybe we could ask the grunts to use the in-game local area chat for general babble? If that even works for everyone, because then the SL could just walk around a corner and use mumble for the important stuff. Otherwise I just think it's a matter of drilling in some ettiquette in the various layers of communication.

  13. #53
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus RIDEBIRD's Avatar
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    Naw man, I think people want Mumble.

    Mitch: That night everyone was new. I think that's why the SL/PL channel was so very chatty. That was easily the most chatty it has been at least.

  14. #54
    Network Hub Orius's Avatar
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    Yeah you're probably right. I was just "inspired" with the setup shacktactical uses. I don't think it's impossible to try get people to chat just a little bit less shit than usual (fun as it is) during stratgir nights, along with leaders being more concise. The latter is something I'm trying to work on personally as well.

  15. #55
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    weve tried separate folders for SL/PLs, it didnt work, especially for me as PL.

    However, it seemed to me like SLs had priority, and drowned out the squad chatter. or was that just in my folder?
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

    "It's frankly embarrassing. The mods on here are woeful."

    "I wrinkled my nose at QC being a mod."

    "At least he has some personality."

  16. #56
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus BasicPauly's Avatar
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    I have to say, i understand some of the issues arising here, but most of them are just about how the particular leaders actually lead.

    We have covered many of these issues before, such as telling people to break/check comms for silence.. This applies to both when you are recieving orders from pl, or giving orders to squad. If you cant hear, silence people.

    Nick, your idea isnt at all necessary, as we already have a command channel where SLs can talk to each other anyway? Mine is set to tab (i re bound tab to numpad +), so that it is next to the general comms. I also have broadcast to all set to numpad 0, so that if need be, i can shout to everybody. I do agree that sls could communicate more together, but a separate channel isnt required.

    With regards to people having differing names in ps2 and mumble, the only issue arises when you register your username with the mumble server, which i have. Even then, though, you should be able to log in with a different name if required, so it would be helpful if people did sync these.

    I can also understand the accent thing. Not everybody can be expected to just recognise peoples voices. I do recognise most regular people ive played with now, but there are some where i still might need to ask who is speaking.... its just the nature of group comms.

  17. #57
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus BasicPauly's Avatar
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    I have to say, i understand some of the issues arising here, but most of them are just about how the particular leaders actually lead.

    We have covered many of these issues before, such as telling people to break/check comms for silence.. This applies to both when you are recieving orders from pl, or giving orders to squad. If you cant hear, silence people.

    Nick, your idea isnt at all necessary, as we already have a command channel where SLs can talk to each other anyway? Mine is set to tab (i re bound tab to numpad +), so that it is next to the general comms. I also have broadcast to all set to numpad 0, so that if need be, i can shout to everybody. I do agree that sls could communicate more together, but a separate channel isnt required.

    With regards to people having differing names in ps2 and mumble, the only issue arises when you register your username with the mumble server, which i have. Even then, though, you should be able to log in with a different name if required, so it would be helpful if people did sync these.

    I can also understand the accent thing. Not everybody can be expected to just recognise peoples voices. I do recognise most regular people ive played with now, but there are some where i still might need to ask who is speaking.... its just the nature of group comms.

    NOTE: if it re posts this twice, AGAIN, i apologise...

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    Yeah you're probably right. I was just "inspired" with the setup shacktactical uses. I don't think it's impossible to try get people to chat just a little bit less shit than usual (fun as it is) during stratgir nights, along with leaders being more concise. The latter is something I'm trying to work on personally as well.
    This seems like the obvious solution. The number of people choosing to play in StratGir squads, even on regular nights, shows that there is an appetite for slightly more serious play. People do appreciate being told to shut up when an order needs to be heard, this sort of discipline seems essential to tactical play and ultimately makes it more fun for everyone.

    Also what BasicPauly says.

  19. #59
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus RIDEBIRD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BasicPauly View Post
    I can also understand the accent thing. Not everybody can be expected to just recognise peoples voices. I do recognise most regular people ive played with now, but there are some where i still might need to ask who is speaking.... its just the nature of group comms.
    Activate overlay.

  20. #60
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    Also, Pauly, I havent seen you play much with us yet. (though I have been out of it for a week or so) I think we might also be overthinking all of this, and we should adress problems that actually arise. Try out the overlay on our next outing, it works beautimously. it just requires you to pay attention to the UI.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

    "It's frankly embarrassing. The mods on here are woeful."

    "I wrinkled my nose at QC being a mod."

    "At least he has some personality."

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