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  1. #1
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    Marmite Games - games you CANNOT be on-the-fence about...

    I'm looking for people who are willing to champion a 'marmite' game here - a game you really like but which you know many/most people dislike and, of course, you're going to tell us/show us why you like it, why others don't AND why they're wrong about that ;0

    This comes from a discussion I've been having around 'finding hidden gems' on Steam - triggered by a comment I made about how the game with the highest % of reviews against "sales" (as defined by SteamSpy) also has the highest % of positive AND the highest % of negative reviews at the same time (Darkfall)

    A hardcore, old-school, corpse-looting MMO (and yes, the Eurogamer thing) is ALWAYS going to divide opinion like no other, but there MUST be other games which face either wildly differing reviews or negative reviews but positive user experiences or - you get the idea?

    It strikes me that if you're going to make 'an art', the worst possible reaction you can get would be "err - it's ok" or "I don't mind it" - so maybe the BEST things are those which divide opinion?

    or maybe not - anyway, a few other games which might fit this could be

    Deadly Premonition
    Mars War Logs

    but what else is out there which people, should they only listen to a select crowd of opinions, would miss entirely and why should they NOT do that?

  2. #2
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus SirKicksalot's Avatar
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    Rogue Warrior

    107 minutes of non-stop violence and Mickey Rourke telling cock-breath commie motherfuckers to suck his hairy balls and wrap them around their fucking mouths.*

    On a more serious note, this isn't a bad bargain bin purchase (I paid two pounds and one for transport). To put it in perspective, the action is better than Alpha Protocol's. Out of those 107 minutes I spent about three in menus. The dialogue is amazing, the finishing moves are cool and I liked the music. It looks bad but this adds to the hilarity; you can destroy most lights and sometimes it manages to have a pretty cool atmosphere. It's like a shitty action movie that you can't help but enjoy because stuff blows up, communists die and the protagonist is an awesome motherfucker.
    As a full-price game it's highway roberry, but as a bargain bin title and if you know what you're in for it's awesome. There are many worse ways to spend two pounds, that's for sure.

    The protagonist is a real person, by the way - Dick Marcinko, the founder of SEAL Team Six. I bought his biography, also called Rogue Warrior, after playing this game. It's using the same exotic language as the game and it's super entertaining.

    *actual quotes

    I can think of a couple more games like this - Shellshock 2, Call of Juarez: The Cartel...
    They're budget games sent to die as AAA. They're trashy but if you actually play them you discover interesting or entertaining things.
    As far as I know Deadly Premonition fits right in this category, but it's from A Japanese Auteur and Jim Sterling gave it a 10 so it had a bit of success.

    (inb4 Far Cry 2)
    Last edited by SirKicksalot; 22-04-2015 at 01:28 AM.

  3. #3
    Moderator Anthile's Avatar
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    Binary Domain
    Sure, it's basically Sega's attempt to rip off Mass Effect but without the space opera elements but it's actually not a bad game. It's playable popcorn cinema. It doesn't bring anything new to the table but it works well enough and the boss fights are good fun. Towards the end the story even gets genuinely smart, sort of. Too bad we will never see a sequel.
    Immersive Sims on Steam WIP

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    Without directions a lot of people wind up going round in circles...

  4. #4
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    So, Dragon Age 2, eh. Immeasurably superior to dragon age 1 in every way. How do I begin? Alright, Morrigan's not in it. Zevran ain't in it. Alastair, he's gone. The only thing you lose at all is Shale. But these are fan favourite characters! Yeah but they're also really dull. Sorry. Alastair starts strong, but turns into an annoying sop like 3 scenes later. Zevran's archetype could be fun! If not for Zevran being kinda boring. And Morrigan too. Yeah, she could be badass, if the writers weren't trying so desperately hard. In exchange, you get characters. Like, actual characters, from a book or something. Not a brilliant book, but a start. Characters who give the impression of having lives beyond the quest arc. Varrick, and his lovely, beardless, novel writing self. Topsider, not a fan of dwarven society, and would very much like you to believe he's in it for the cash. You get Aveline, and her massive, perfect jaw. Eventual captain of the guard (yeah. Eventual, because character development actually happens in this game), but not all that good at people. You get Isabella. Who, in a sharp departure from every RPG ever, will go against the party leaders wishes, indulge in a little on the side theft, and not only that, if you don't stick up for her, if you've not brought her along enough to win her trust, she will jump ship.

    You get Merrill. Who has a lovely accent.

    Combat, likewise, is absolutely superior, starting with the wholly overblown complaint of 'but then reinforcement happens and asking me to adapt is too big an issue!' which would perhaps have credit, if it didn't happen in every single fight and not even be a problem if you simply don't cast all your biggest spells off the bat. Friendly fire is gone, because let's be real, playing footsie with fireball AoEs is dull, feels stupid, is stupid, it's completely stupid, I'm glad it's gone. Thank you for letting me cast fun spells without killing my party. Enemies die fast. You fight fast. Things are immediate and visceral. Ok backstabbing someone into tiny bits is a tad too visceral but I'd rather immediate combat with no healthbars that take 30 mins of sustained stabbing and mooks that actually die when you smack 'em. Combat's fun, fluid, has good spells, nice combos, it's good.

    The story. You don't save the world. No massive demonic invasions are thwarted. You aren't The Chosen One. Events happen without you. Some happen despite you. These alone make it better than basically every other RPG story out there. It's a big world, and you've a part to play, but you're not the only one. Heck, the defining event of the series takes place under your nose, and all you're given is space to react to it. It deals with oppression, it deals with prejudice, it deals with... the fact that every time you side with the obvious good guys they make pacts with devils and turn into pusbeasts. Fine. But the point is what Dragon age 2 TRIES with its story is in and of itself better than most other plots. It's trying to be more. It's trying to be better. I will give credit for effort, because to not do so just encourages people not to bother trying. And this is bioware! You can put their plots on a bingo card! For them to step out of their comfort zone is something we should encourage! Alas. We know how that went.

    What else. Screw it. I'm done. That's enough effort for one 3am.

  5. #5
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Eight Rooks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthile View Post
    Binary Domain
    Sure, it's basically Sega's attempt to rip off Mass Effect but without the space opera elements but it's actually not a bad game. It's playable popcorn cinema. It doesn't bring anything new to the table but it works well enough and the boss fights are good fun. Towards the end the story even gets genuinely smart, sort of. Too bad we will never see a sequel.
    It's a fair-to-middling game, the boss fights were dull and tedious - a kind of continuous low-grade frustration - and the few flashes of intelligence in the story were quickly squashed by one of the most obvious plot twists imaginable told in a spectacularly dumb way. :P I liked it, up to a point, but no way is it a Marmite game - it's cheerful mediocrity through and through. Like gleaming white futuristic cities and shooting robots into tiny pieces? Buy a PS3 or 360 and go play Vanquish instead.

    Seriously, though, I would have assumed a Marmite game would be something everyone else hated, not... absently dismissed.

    EDIT: Also a real Marmite game ought to have someone giving it a proper defence. I've never seen a single positive review of Mars: War Logs that wasn't basically semi-coherent INDIE GAMES R COOL THIS ONE IS DARK AND GRITTY AND THE PRETTY LADY'S CLOTHES FALL OFF rambling.
    Last edited by Eight Rooks; 22-04-2015 at 10:43 AM.

  6. #6
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus TheDreamlord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serenegoose View Post
    So, Dragon Age 2, eh. Immeasurably superior to dragon age 1 in every way.
    I cannot for the life of me understand this statement. DA2 was an awful, awful game, at least compared to DA1. Unless one thinks Dragon Age is an ARPG of the Dungeon Siege variety.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDreamlord View Post
    I cannot for the life of me understand this statement. DA2 was an awful, awful game, at least compared to DA1. Unless one thinks Dragon Age is an ARPG of the Dungeon Siege variety.
    If you don't like DA:O, you might like DA2. In that sense it makes sense. It's difficult to imagine thinking DA:O is good and DA2 is better, that's true.
    Irrelevant on further examination of the rest of the thread.

  8. #8
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    Simple, really. I play RPGs almost exclusively for the bit where it asks me to pick what I want to say. DA:O combat was sloooow. DA2 combat was fast, swooshy, and out of the way quickly. DA2 was also better written. ;)

  9. #9
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus TheDreamlord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serenegoose View Post
    Simple, really. I play RPGs almost exclusively for the bit where it asks me to pick what I want to say. DA:O combat was sloooow. DA2 combat was fast, swooshy, and out of the way quickly. DA2 was also better written. ;)
    Ok, fair enough, we differ a lot on this, I play RPGs mostly for the story and the fighting system and the character improvement/levelling. I found DA2's combat atrocious, where on the other hand I was so pleasantly surprised with the re-emergence of BG-like combat in the first game. I also liked the story of the first one quite a lot tbh. I dropped the second one a dozen hours in, as I could not stand the combat system.

  10. #10
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus TheDreamlord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NathanH View Post
    If you don't like DA:O, you might like DA2. In that sense it makes sense. It's difficult to imagine thinking DA:O is good and DA2 is better, that's true.
    Yes, agreed, you make a good point there. I think it's (as Serenegoose said) dependent on what you actually like in your rpgs.

  11. #11
    Network Hub TomxJ's Avatar
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    I really like Risen 2, because; goofy Pirates and the ability to possess people with the power of voodoo. Made for some cracking RPG moments.

    It doesn't happen so much on this site, but the vast majority of people I know just don't seem to see the point in games like Dear Esther and Gone Home. The former I think is a fantastic piece of poetry and the latter a well executed love story.
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  12. #12
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    I can't think about anything.
    Maybe Gothic, because it seems to be a cult game mostly in Germany and Poland while outside of this two countries people don't really care about it.
    It's a game with very lively world (as opposed to TES games) which can be only surpassed by GTA series, incoming Witcher 3 and Asscreed.

    The former I think is a fantastic piece of poetry and the latter a well executed love story.
    I think that Gone Home is a quite nice story, but a very boring game. Only good voice acting made me go through it. And it comes from someone who likes Dear Esther very much.

  13. #13
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    Note: whilst robust pro and against arguments are great - any fence sitting or "meh" vibes will render a game invalid so 'choose wisely' ;0

  14. #14
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus karaquazian's Avatar
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    Cod surely

    People either hate it or inexplicably (to me) love it and rush out to buy every new update. No ones all "its ok I suppose".

    Where as something like battlefield, theres more people on the fence (or hoping they rediscover the old formula)

    I would have dota and lol as Marmite games too

  15. #15
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus L_No's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomxJ View Post
    I really like Risen 2, because; goofy Pirates and the ability to possess people with the power of voodoo. Made for some cracking RPG moments.

    It doesn't happen so much on this site, but the vast majority of people I know just don't seem to see the point in games like Dear Esther and Gone Home. The former I think is a fantastic piece of poetry and the latter a well executed love story.
    The only game I could think of is Dear Esther too. It has always surprised me how much vitriol this game gets from the "it's not a game"-crowd. I enjoyed it immensely though, despite the limited interactivity.
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  16. #16
    Network Hub TomxJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karaquazian View Post
    Cod surely
    So obvious! I don't get CoD at all.
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  17. #17
    Network Hub Xzi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDreamlord View Post
    Yes, agreed, you make a good point there. I think it's (as Serenegoose said) dependent on what you actually like in your rpgs.
    Eh, I don't think DA2 even managed to be a good aRPG. It got stuck halfway between tactical pause and real-time combat, and ended up doing neither well. Which is pretty much the case for all aspects of the game, stuck in limbo between Bioware wanting to take their time and do things right and EA forcing their poor decisions and limited timeline down your throat.

    Ultimately, not even the developer/publisher thought it turned out to be a good game...they started giving away copies only a few months after its release. When even EA is willing to admit they fucked up, you know the game is beyond redemption. Not that there isn't anybody out there who can find it enjoyable (clearly), but my feelings are just as strong in the opposite direction. DA:O I played through three or four times, DA2 I couldn't even finish once.

    Anyway, for me the game would be Black and White 2. I know it was nothing like its predecessor, and that disappointed me too. Initially. I had fun playing through it after I let that disappointment go and let it stand on its own merits, however. It was a pretty different take on real-time strategy, and while I can't speak to the balance in multiplayer (which quickly fell to underpopulation), the singleplayer campaign was enough to make me feel like I got my money's worth. Being able to conquer maps with just influence allowed the game to keep my interest. I wouldn't say I loved the game, but I had a hard time finding any other title that would work for this topic.
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  18. #18
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus TheDreamlord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xzi View Post
    DA:O I played through three or four times, DA2 I couldn't even finish once.
    To me, DA2 was the only game I preordered and paid full price (just a couple of days before release, really) and as I realised my mistake I hardly ever preordered again (my only exception was GTA V last week). I found DA2 a really really bad game and left it a few hours in, never to touch it again.

  19. #19
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus SirKicksalot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomxJ View Post
    So obvious! I don't get CoD at all.
    Black Ops 2 has more choices and more important consequences than Mass Effect:

    And they're organic choices, made through gameplay, not through red/blue dialogue. Most aren't even signposted.

    I'm playing COD for the singleplayer. It's the Half-Life rollercoaster formula with modern production values. Ghosts and Advanced Warfare are pretty bad but Treyarch's games are excellent. Each entry is very different and yet they built a great story spanning almost a century. Each has a ton of content and the Black Ops games have the best multiplayer.

  20. #20
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    I like CoDs singleplayer too, especially Black Ops cold war theme and of course every single WWII game from series (yes, even COD 5).
    At least these games are better than Michael Bay movies and offer the same amount of explosions.

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