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  1. #41
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    I'd forgotten Driver - it's not the hardest thing in the game (the level where you have to chase the subway train is worse) but it's close - and it teaches you little about the car either as you aren't going to drive it in a carpark.

    It's there for a reason, of course, it's lifted from the movie of the same name, it's "The Driver"'s audition...

  2. #42
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    If I recall correctly you can get tooltips in Disciples 2 by right-clicking on the various icons. I might be getting confused with some other game though.
    Irrelevant on further examination of the rest of the thread.

  3. #43
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Drake Sigar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The JG Man View Post
    Can I submit one that fits both worst and best? Driver. Other than the final level, it's probably the hardest mission in the entire game. You're forced to complete a check-list of moves within 60 seconds otherwise you simply cannot proceed.
    A pox on that level. I was a kid damnit, I didn't know what 'burnout' meant, or how 'slalom' translated to what I was seeing on the screen.

  4. #44
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    Commandos 2 has an interesting tutorial. It teaches you very little about how to play the game but it is very good at getting you into the right mindset to play the game.
    Irrelevant on further examination of the rest of the thread.

  5. #45
    Lesser Hivemind Node Scumbag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The JG Man View Post
    Can I submit one that fits both worst and best? Driver. Other than the final level, it's probably the hardest mission in the entire game. You're forced to complete a check-list of moves within 60 seconds otherwise you simply cannot proceed. The disadvantage is that it's bloody hard and not everything is super clear (although a lot is) and you can and most likely will get hung up on it for ages. The advantage is that on completing it, you pretty much know how to do everything in the game. It also fits the game really well and whilst is obviously a tutorial, makes a lot of sense in context.
    Another notch on Driver's post. Less a tutorial as much as a damn test to see if you are competent enough to play it.
    "BEFORE YOU PLAY THIS GAME PERFORM THESE TRICKS OR GO PLAY SOMETHING ELSE!"
    Actually, more Multiplayer games need tutorials like this.

  6. #46
    Network Hub EPICTHEFAIL's Avatar
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    Oh boy...

    Mass Effect 1: It didn`t even HAVE a tutorial, just a poorly scripted and utterly useless pile of popups that appeared if you dared open the power menu at any point between Jenkins` death and meeting Ashley.

    Battlecruiser and Universal Combat: No tutorial, just a PDF courtesy of (Dr) Derek Smart (snicker).

    Left 4 Dead: A system of tutorial popups that, while useful to new player, insists on telling you to press LMB to fire after 300 hours of gameplay, but doesn`t show the warning sign over a Witch`s head after 100 hours or so.

    Planetside 2: Hey, you know how we could introduce new players to the game? Why, by drop-podding them into the biggest battle on the continent without instructions and letting them die within 5 seconds, of course!

    League of Legends: Because the best way to introduce players to a ridiculously complex game is to give them a ranged AD carry, have them shoot at minions and a single champion for like 10 minutes, and them send them off without explaining anything that will let them survive a match without feeding everyone on the bloody continent.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by NathanH View Post
    If I recall correctly you can get tooltips in Disciples 2 by right-clicking on the various icons. I might be getting confused with some other game though.
    There are tooltips on hover but that only says what a button does - a tutorial should tell you WHY you'd want to do it...

  8. #48
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EPICTHEFAIL View Post
    League of Legends: Because the best way to introduce players to a ridiculously complex game is to give them a ranged AD carry, have them shoot at minions and a single champion for like 10 minutes, and them send them off without explaining anything that will let them survive a match without feeding everyone on the bloody continent.
    Everybody knows that there is no tutorial on earth that can prepare newbies to the abuse they'll receive from MOBA players.
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  9. #49
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Tikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EPICTHEFAIL View Post
    Left 4 Dead: A system of tutorial popups that, while useful to new player, insists on telling you to press LMB to fire after 300 hours of gameplay, but doesn`t show the warning sign over a Witch`s head after 100 hours or so.
    To be fair L4D has one of the best tutorials in the form of its intro cutscene.

  10. #50
    Network Hub Outright Villainy's Avatar
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    The Witcher 2's wasn't great, but it certainly wasn't as bad as everyone makes out. It is bugged though, it wouldn't end after I killed everyone in the arena. Still, it's optional, and at least there's a pretty good proper manual available which is a great resource for learning how not to suck without intruding on the game itself. Remind me why games stopped having them these days?

  11. #51
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sinister agent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outright Villainy View Post
    The Witcher 2's wasn't great, but it certainly wasn't as bad as everyone makes out. It is bugged though, it wouldn't end after I killed everyone in the arena. Still, it's optional, and at least there's a pretty good proper manual available which is a great resource for learning how not to suck without intruding on the game itself. Remind me why games stopped having them these days?
    Cheaper and easier to include a tutorial / help screen. At worst, manuals mean printing and distribution costs. At best, they mean alt-tabbing out of the game.

  12. #52
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outright Villainy View Post
    The Witcher 2's wasn't great, but it certainly wasn't as bad as everyone makes out. It is bugged though, it wouldn't end after I killed everyone in the arena. Still, it's optional, and at least there's a pretty good proper manual available which is a great resource for learning how not to suck without intruding on the game itself. Remind me why games stopped having them these days?
    Most people are referring to the original tutorial which was the assault on the La Valette castle. THAT was a horrifyingly bad tutorial and I still don't know hot to effectively parry :p

    Later they added a proper tutorial that is pretty good at introducing most concepts.

    Also, the problem was that many developers were relying on manuals. Compare Civ3 with Civ5, for example. Civ3 had a MASSIVE manual. I am not even sure if Civ5 has a manual because I have never needed it. Everything is well-defined in-game and you get pretty good guidance.

    In a perfect world, we wouldn't need manuals. And, most games these days are good about not needing them. The problem is when you DO need one, and it isn't there. Like when I was trying to figure out how to use healing sprays in Resident Evil 6 (fun fact: Healing tabs get mapped to R2 but healing spray is an item you have to use like a grenade. NOWHERE is that said :p)
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  13. #53
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus coldvvvave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    Most people are referring to the original tutorial which was the assault on the La Valette castle. THAT was a horrifyingly bad tutorial and I still don't know hot to effectively parry :p
    I don't know about most people, but tutorial that was added in Enchanced Edition was already mentioned twice in this thread. There is also a mention that its bugged and won't end. Same happened to me. At least La Valette castle mission did end.
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  14. #54
    Network Hub FunnyB's Avatar
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    How about X3: Terran Conflict? When choosing the Humble Merchant start, you only get a short (optional) flight school tutorial, that shows you how to navigate with the ships. But halfway through it, it tells you to shoot an object down. Too bad, none of your starting ships have guns! Better luck next time!
    That's not even mentioning that the tutorial gives you absolutely no tips at all about what to do in the universe or how to do it...

  15. #55
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    I think Dark Souls deserves special mention.

    On the surface, its tutorial is horrid. It just gives you the controls and sets you off. But once you have played a bit more, you realize it is a perfect tutorial. It teaches you everything you need to know (except about leveling up) while never holding your hand, which makes sense because Lordran is not the kind of world where hand holding occurs.
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  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnx View Post
    Well that's pretty much how RTS have been ever since Command and Conquer.
    recent games usually tie up tutorials with singleplayer campaign or something.

  17. #57
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    Il2 Sturmovic. There was a series of in engine tutorial videos covering taking off, landing, and teaching the use of the different ordinance available. The one covering the correct use of rockets was less helpful than it might of been- not too long into it, the plane crashed. The tutorial text continued, but was a little harder to successfully follow.

    I'm not sure how much it would have ended up helping even without that rather odd little bug. I had a further issue involving taking off fully laden- I could get off the ground, but couldn't manage to get higher than a few hundred feet, no matter what I did with landing gear, flaps or WEP. My squadron would zoom off into the distance and grump at me for not following.

  18. #58
    Lesser Hivemind Node lasikbear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    I think Dark Souls deserves special mention.

    On the surface, its tutorial is horrid. It just gives you the controls and sets you off. But once you have played a bit more, you realize it is a perfect tutorial. It teaches you everything you need to know (except about leveling up) while never holding your hand, which makes sense because Lordran is not the kind of world where hand holding occurs.
    Except how to jump, it never tells you how to jump.

    Also I actually like games that never stop telling me what buttons do what (within reason) I play a lot of stuff at the same time and tend to forget the controls within a day or two.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by lasikbear View Post
    Except how to jump, it never tells you how to jump.

    Also I actually like games that never stop telling me what buttons do what (within reason) I play a lot of stuff at the same time and tend to forget the controls within a day or two.
    or what all that crap about souls and hollowing and humanity is all about - that alone makes me despise Dark Souls, any game including mechanics it chooses not to explain has to be created by mentalists??

  20. #60
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trjp View Post
    created by mentalists??
    Created by mentalists.
    For mentalists.
    I'm failing to writing a blog, specifically about playing games the wrong way
    http://playingitwrong.wordpress.com/

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