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  1. #1
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    Squad - Project Reality spiritual successor



    I am really excited for this game! They are planning to launch an alpha in early December as well as a kick starter around that time. They are making this game with Unreal engine 4. Just thought I would mention that. :)

    Here is their forums as well - http://joinsquad.net/forums/

    Anyone else excited?

    Yes? no? Maybe?

  2. #2
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus coldvvvave's Avatar
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    Good luck to them.

    Though I'm not sure what makes them think anyone needed another game like that.
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    Looks good enough. If it's like Insurgency but with larger maps I might be interested.
    "A thousand years from now, a dim-witted human barbarian will climb to the top of a pile of bones, sit down and proclaim: I win."

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    Wasn't the PR team making a sequel using CryEngine? Has that transformed into this or are they separate projects?

  5. #5
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deezus View Post
    Wasn't the PR team making a sequel using CryEngine? Has that transformed into this or are they separate projects?
    It is mainly Battlefield 2 and Arma 2&3,they've had crazy flings with all kinds of game engines.
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    Found this clarification. Separate projects, which, on the plus side, basically means lots of PR style goodness coming our way in the future:

    http://www.realitymod.com/forum/f11-...ml#post2038527

  7. #7
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Velko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deezus View Post
    Found this clarification. Separate projects, which, on the plus side, basically means lots of PR style goodness coming our way in the future:

    http://www.realitymod.com/forum/f11-...ml#post2038527
    And on the minus side, means that nothing will ever be completed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by coldvvvave View Post
    Though I'm not sure what makes them think anyone needed another game like that.
    We have a million and a half derivative twitch shooters, and barely a handful of proper cooperative realism shooters and what we do have mostly isn't on a scale approaching what PR does.

    The more the merrier in my opinion. Whats more PR's Advance and Secure is a much more mature evolution of the BF2 conquest than anything I've seen since. Much more interesting than that endless yawn of Planetside, grinding towards nothing particularly significant. Also Insurgency mode is pretty unique amongst shooters.

    I also find games in the PR vein to have more satisfying weapons handling than the vast majority of shooters. I want more of that.

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    I used to play PR BF2 really a lot. I also believe that I was quite good at it. Somewhere in time, though, I stopped playing. I believe it was the moment when playing PR became kind of a chore, a tedious occupation, when rounds would easily surpass the one hour duration.

    If Squad is aiming to become PRBF2 but only with even more complexity I don't think Squad will be successful.

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    Success is arbitrary. Niche titles seek to satisfy a player base, even if its small.

    There are more than enough people who want to play a game that takes more than an hour. I just today played a battle in the newly revived and refurbished Project Reality Tournament. It lasted about 3 hours. I barely noticed. Funny how when something is fun its no biggie. Participants numbered at 48 per side.

    I'm always interested by people's assumption that gaming should be brief, no more than an hour, when most real life activities involving teamwork, strategy, and developed skill usually last at least 90 minutes to a few hours. Try playing a decent beer league baseball game in 60 minutes or less. Even with relaxed rules and wussy slow pitch it doesn't end in a blink.

    There were of course missteps in PR's development that did lose many people. But the problem with forecasting on PR's behalf, or the spirit of what is PR, is that your interpretation will not be the same as what it is today, or what others interpret from when they played. PR 0.75 or 0.85 or 1.0 or 0.5... they're all basically different games with some incredible gameplay mechanic overhauls between those versions. There was a point where people started to feel like they'd lose some of the essential fun of PR, made it too much like a chore. They decided to regress a bit, take a step back and redo things. I think PR 1.0 is pretty good as a distillation of the best of its development process.

    The thing about PR games that last more than an hour is, they actually always lasted that long, assuming the teams were good and you didn't get a cap out in the first 30 minutes. PR has always been about matches that can last more than an hour because when two teams are going at it it takes quite a while for a realistic shoot out to develop. Whats more PR public has always been about hop in hop off for those who didn't have the time, which is not an illigitimate way to play of course. Also what about Arma? People spend countless hours twiddling around wasteland or DayZ at literal walking paces sometimes. Last I heard both Arma 3 and Dayz are pretty popular these days.
    Last edited by P*Funk; 26-10-2014 at 03:10 PM.

  11. #11
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    Judging by the length of your post PR still seems to matter to you a lot. That used to be the case to me, too, untill, say, when the Tactical Gamer server went off line forever.

    Quote Originally Posted by P*Funk View Post
    Success is arbitrary.
    Yeah everything is relative. Except it isn't really and it depends on your goals. Squad's success would constitute in my book if the game could recreate the magic of PRBF2 of 0.5-0.8 and if it could gather a large enough player base.

    Besides, I really don't know why they decided to make that game in the first place given the other endeavor using Crytek.


    Quote Originally Posted by P*Funk View Post
    PR 0.75 or 0.85 or 1.0 or 0.5... they're all basically different games with some incredible gameplay mechanic overhauls between those versions. There was a point where people started to feel like they'd lose some of the essential fun of PR, made it too much like a chore.
    The problem with PR boils down to me that the increasing realism (as understood by the devs) consumes the fun. I remember manning the grenade launchers; it was me essentially listening to my squad mates, staring at a static screen and fiddling with numbers. Memories of Silent Hunter emerged...

    It's similar with other in game assets such us vehicles, stationary weapons. They all increasingly required higher skills untill you got a 2 class "society": the pros exercising every day and the peasant folk that was (in comparison) only occasionally playing and that was pursuing real life obligations, too.
    And, oh god, building assets - it became truly a job.


    Quote Originally Posted by P*Funk View Post
    The thing about PR games that last more than an hour is, they actually always lasted that long, assuming the teams were good and you didn't get a cap out in the first 30 minutes. PR has always been about matches that can last more than an hour because when two teams are going at it it takes quite a while for a realistic shoot out to develop. Whats more PR public has always been about hop in hop off for those who didn't have the time, which is not an illigitimate way to play of course.
    Hop in hop off became unbearable with the succeeding PR versions because of the complexity of the asset handling and the complexity of the gameplay, ie the composition of teams and squads. Irrespective of that game duration longer than 1 hour (roughly) simply isn't practicable for a lot of folks with real life obligations.

    Quote Originally Posted by P*Funk View Post
    Also what about Arma? People spend countless hours twiddling around wasteland or DayZ at literal walking paces sometimes. Last I heard both Arma 3 and Dayz are pretty popular these days.
    Don't know about those games, never played them nor is such a long duration my cup of tea - I don't care ;)

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    Goodtwist, you make some valid points. I think the sweet spot would be having the realism of PR, but also the accessibility of hop on, hop off gameplay. To me, it always seemed that the cost of hop-on/hop-off or casual gameplay is that you can't really accept a mission critical position, like medic, or officer, or APC gunner, because that would break your team if you disconnected. The result is that you don't experience some of the really unique aspects of PR.

    Now, it's hard to tell if the simplicity of Squad is just a factor of pre-Alpha or intentional design, but the game seems to be focusing on the capping mechanics, and less so on the FOB building aspects. Again, hard to really tell where the devs are going because it's so early, but they'd be smart if they focused on infantry gameplay, and left the meta-warfare to PR2.

  13. #13
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    @ Deezus and P*Funk

    I actually wanted to mention earlier a very interesting remark of Sid Mayer: in an interview on the development of Civilization he stressed the importance of balancing the evolving complexity (with every Civ iteration) and gameplay/fun. He was along the lines that whenever his team invented something new they had to embed it cautiously into the given system and usually cut out another feature.

  14. #14
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    Sure, I mean that makes sense when dealing with complex mechanics and interconnected gameplay. Altering aspects of the design is going to have consequences, intended or not, on anything that aspect was related to.

    In my opinion, Squad could really find success if it focuses on infantry and small unit tactics and eliminates the asset building and high-intensity vehicles. If they were to take Insurgency, which does strike a good balance between casual and tactical, and give it the PR treatment, I think that would be a winner. Keep everything on the ground.

    EDIT: Just to be clear, I'm not saying mod Insurgency to be like PR. Just brought it in as an example of a game that attempts to bridge the "CoD/Arma" gap, and I think does a fairly good job at it.
    Last edited by Deezus; 26-10-2014 at 07:55 PM.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goodtwist View Post
    It's similar with other in game assets such us vehicles, stationary weapons. They all increasingly required higher skills untill you got a 2 class "society": the pros exercising every day and the peasant folk that was (in comparison) only occasionally playing and that was pursuing real life obligations, too.
    And, oh god, building assets - it became truly a job.
    I think this is a pretty silly perspective. You're basically complaining that the game has a high skill ceiling and so people who play more often are better than you. Thats true in any game. Thats true in Team Fortress 2. If you play every day you can do absurd things to people with a rocket launcher. If you don't play every day you learn to shoot at people's feet and might be useful mobbing a flag once the pros have done most of the killing.

    What do you want instead? A game that is simple enough that it doesn't challenge an occasional player? I think this is a completely incorrect analysis as well since you are inferring that everything is too complicated to learn easily except its not.

    Vehicles... well they're vehicles. They're supposed to be complex. If you don't know how to properly man a vehicle then don't drive them. Assets have always been important in bigger PR battles and regardless of which version you're in the people who'd waste assets by being incompetent in them would often ruin a round for you.

    PR has always been about people being new and knowing nothing and playing with people who know something who'll talk them through it. PR always had a learning curve.

    As for building assets, thats not laborious at all, provided you're in a full squad. 4 people digging an FOB takes much less than a minute. Use of other assets such as TOWs or AA is situational and in most situations its actually better to just build the FOB somewhere where its hidden and adding those deployables only serves to give it away.

    If a squad leader was always making you build the max number of deployables every single time then he was dumb.
    Hop in hop off became unbearable with the succeeding PR versions because of the complexity of the asset handling and the complexity of the gameplay, ie the composition of teams and squads. Irrespective of that game duration longer than 1 hour (roughly) simply isn't practicable for a lot of folks with real life obligations.
    I think there is some truth to how games became slogs thanks to some of the more restrictive changes they made. They back tracked on some of them and its a better game again. Still, the game was always designed to be at least 1 hour in length if not more. The BF2 default timer is 4 hours. Its always been 4 hours.

    The only time a PR match has ever ended in 1 hour or less is when one team was really crap or it was a small map that guaranteed a meat grinder would chew up tickets. Part of the fun of PR is that it was a game that involved success through more than just killing the enemy in the same choke point over and over.

    Lastly, if you aren't playing PR often enough to know how to use a Grenadier kit or an AR kit properly then you don't have any business using anything other than rifleman. Rifleman has barely changed in years with the only real thing you need to deal with in any given version is feeling out how the deviation has subtly changed.
    Last edited by P*Funk; 28-10-2014 at 02:26 AM.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by P*Funk View Post
    I think this is a pretty silly perspective...
    I won't argue with a man so fond about his precious game.

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