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  1. #121
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    Monsters attacking me when I rest. It's really annoying. I want to adventure until my resources are depleted to the level that I can't adventure any further, and then I rest. One of the challenges is to get as far as you can per rest. So I want to rest precisely at the moments when my party cannot deal with a random encounter. Random encounters on rest make it in your interest to rest before your resources are particularly depleted, which seems to be entirely contrary to the intented purpose of these encounters. Either that, or it makes you just quickload a lot when you rest, which is rather lame.

    A better idea would be to count the number of times you rest in a particular dungeon, and then increase the strength and preparation of your enemies. This would make it in your interests to press on instead of resting after every encounter, but also not punish you unduly for resting when there is no other option.
    Irrelevant on further examination of the rest of the thread.

  2. #122
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Fanbuoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NathanH View Post
    Monsters attacking me when I rest. It's really annoying.
    That's why I always check under the bed twice before going to sleep.

  3. #123
    Lesser Hivemind Node L_No's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NathanH View Post
    Monsters attacking me when I rest. It's really annoying.
    So true. I still haven't played a game that allowed me to set guards while the rest of the party is resting. When I play tabletop RPG's, I always take turns guarding the rest of the party.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by NathanH View Post
    A better idea would be to count the number of times you rest in a particular dungeon, and then increase the strength and preparation of your enemies. This would make it in your interests to press on instead of resting after every encounter, but also not punish you unduly for resting when there is no other option.
    That's a great idea. Or you can do a ticking clock kind of hostage situation / evil ritual / escaping criminal (someone should make a PnP Carmen Sandiego game) / race to the macguffin. Didn't Din's curse do stuff like that?

  5. #125
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus somini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fanbuoy View Post
    That's why I always check under the bed twice before going to sleep.
    Ahemm!
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  6. #126
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    This is a weird gripe, but a gripe nonetheless:

    Pre-ordered Brutal Legend, which gave me access to multiplayer. Multiplayer has a vs AI mode, which is good, but it explains fuck-all, which is bad. So for the first ten minutes I was running around randomly trying to hit things with my guitar and holy shit there's an army coming towards me. I want an army! How do I make an army? Hitting random buttons now. Ah! TAB! That would've been a useful button to know in the tutorial.

    So I queue a bunch of random shit that goes and stomps their random shit. And then they come out with random shit that's like three times as tall as my random shit so I just head back to TAB city and queue more random shit. But what does it all mean? So I look at their in-game wiki.

    And thus I hit my gripe: The single-player campaign is basically just one long, storied introduction to all the random shit you can queue in multiplayer. Thus, understanding all the stuff you can spawn in multiplayer is just one big spoiler for the campaign. THEN WHY DID YOU GIVE ME THE MULTIPLAYER FIRST, FUCKO?
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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  7. #127
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus somini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    This is a weird gripe, but a gripe nonetheless:

    Pre-ordered
    It's one of my gripes too.
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  8. #128
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    1. The red screen (and its variations like the jam screen, Mass Effect's veins etc) in FPS games when your health falls too low. Do the developers think I'm too stupid to track my health?

    2. Regenerating health. The only place it makes sense is in sandbox games like GTA or Saint's Row. And even in those it should only kick in after the encounter is over or after you've escaped the enemies.

    3. Checkpoint-only saves. No one is putting a gun to your head and making you quicksave. Let those of us who like to quicksave have the option of doing so.

    4. QTEs. I've never come across a QTE which I've liked.

    5. Quest markers. Having the option to disable them would be nice.

    6. Non skippable intro movies. This is quite common in EA games. It's embarrassing to see a company so desperate for gamer recognition that it forces you to sit through it's dumb logo animations.
    Last edited by Frostbite; 22-02-2013 at 04:19 AM.

  9. #129
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus somini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frostbite View Post
    3. Checkpoint-only saves. No one is putting a gun to your head and making you quicksave. Let those of us who like to quicksave have the option of doing so.
    Yeah, right.
    That's like giving heroin to an addict.
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  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by somini View Post
    Yeah, right.
    That's like giving heroin to an addict.
    If the players lacks the will power to not savescum, it their own fault. Why should others be inconvenienced because of it?

  11. #131
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus soldant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frostbite View Post
    2. Regenerating health. The only place it makes sense is in sandbox games like GTA or Saint's Row. And even in those it should only kick in after the encounter is over or after you've escaped the enemies.
    Neither system on its own ever makes sense if you think about - the "100hp" system relies on breadcrumb medkit trails which make it look like the things went out of their way to save you. Plus "health" is not an arbitrary number anyway, so if you want a system that "makes sense" fixed health doesn't work either.

    IMO the best system is a hybrid like we saw in Far Cry 2 - the health bar is segmented, with each segment being able to regenerate unless it's depleted. To replenish depleted bars you need syrettes from medkits. Solves the problem of reducing some of the tension and difficulty, without relying on random medkits from the sky.


    That said the regen health system when done properly (i.e. not "hide behind wall for 2 seconds to replenish entirely") effectively mirrors how a lot of people play: "Well, got through that really hard fight, down to 25hp. Better quickload and try again because now I'm screwed." It removes that needless repetition.

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by soldant View Post
    so if you want a system that "makes sense" fixed health doesn't work either.
    All I want from a health system is for it to be a finite resource which I have to actively manage and one that should factor into my plan for any upcoming encounter. I'm not looking for realism, so I don't care if the health packs looks like someone went out of their way to save me. You can also stack medkits like in FEAR so that you don't have to constantly go out of your way to search for them.

    Quote Originally Posted by soldant View Post
    That said the regen health system when done properly (i.e. not "hide behind wall for 2 seconds to replenish entirely") effectively mirrors how a lot of people play: "Well, got through that really hard fight, down to 25hp. Better quickload and try again because now I'm screwed." It removes that needless repetition.
    So because people are unable to accept that they screwed themselves in a previous fight and now have to proceed with the consequences, we have a system which, instead of forcing them to get better at fights, teaches them that there are no consequences to their failures?

    I don't play multiplayer games but in the short time that I indulged in CS1.6 with my friends, most of my favorite memories are having pulled off some kill streaks while low on health. Managing to overcome multiple opponents while low on health is much more satisfying than getting all your health back after every successful encounter and repeating the process. The low health forces you to come up with more innovative strategies. The regen system breaks the game into a series of fights where your reward is a full healthbar for a successful encounter. There's no tension left over from the previous fight.

  13. #133
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus soldant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frostbite View Post
    So because people are unable to accept that they screwed themselves in a previous fight and now have to proceed with the consequences, we have a system which, instead of forcing them to get better at fights, teaches them that there are no consequences to their failures?
    How is this different from deciding to quicksave and quickload constantly with finite health? It just removes the need for it when it's done properly. It's not about getting "better" at fights because they didn't fail. If you want needless repetition of the same fight just to do a little better each time that's fine, but I think you need to recognise that plenty of other people don't like artificially extending gameplay time by making us replay the same section time over for no good reason.

    The entire "no tension" thing can be entirely resolved by having a system like in Far Cry 2 like I suggested. But with quicksave/quickload there's no tension anyway. Came out with only 10hp? Who cares, just quickload and do it again. Tension destroyed.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by soldant View Post
    How is this different from deciding to quicksave and quickload constantly with finite health?
    Finite health has consequences because of finite healthpacks. Regen is essentially an infinite amount of healthpacks. With finite health if you manage to win the fight without losing any health it's through a combination of luck and strategy. So your objective entering a fight is 'How do I get through this in the most efficient way with ideally no health loss?' If you're adamant on not losing any health you'll probably have to reload a few times. Your objective in regen health is 'I just need to kill all the enemies.' Who cares about how much health you lose doing it? You're guaranteed full health anyway. I find finite health to be more tactical, whereas regen seems more run-and-gun.

    Quote Originally Posted by soldant View Post
    Came out with only 10hp? Who cares, just quickload and do it again. Tension destroyed.
    This only affects those who choose to reload the game. Changing the health system to regen affects those of us who don't quickload simply because we lost some health. Quickloading is an option, health regen is not. The Far Cry 2 system may be an okay compromise but I feel it's still too forgiving.

  15. #135
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus soldant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frostbite View Post
    Who cares about how much health you lose doing it? You're guaranteed full health anyway.
    The counter-point to that is level design similar to Half Life 2 where they place crates containing supplies so that you leave one of those "arena style" fights and can recover no matter how much you lost. Which is why I think it's pointless - even before regen health became a big thing, devs were still coming up with ways to mitigate against player screw-ups.

  16. #136
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frostbite View Post
    This only affects those who choose to reload the game. Changing the health system to regen affects those of us who don't quickload simply because we lost some health. Quickloading is an option, health regen is not. The Far Cry 2 system may be an okay compromise but I feel it's still too forgiving.
    That.

    I really miss the older fps games where you'd come out with a sliver of health left after a tough fight and be on your absolute highest alert looking out for either enemies or a precious precious health pack. It was such a tense experience, which you could ruin by reloading and trying again of course, but if that's your model of operation I guess you're not as immersed in the game as people who would carry on.

    Nothing ruins tension like hearing that little sound of your health bar starting to go up again.

    My gripe is when devs give you a windowed mode, or a fullscreen windowed mode, but they don't lock the mouse to the window when you click in it, meaning when you sweep far enough to the side your mouse comes out of the game. This is mostly a problem with multiple monitors.

  17. #137
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Grizzly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirKicksalot View Post
    In Crysis 2 sometimes you have to crawl using the mouse buttons. MOUSE 1 - CRAWL. Then you get a new message: MOUSE 2 - CRAWL. Repeat three or four times. PRESS SPACE - STAND.
    The worst are those in which your character is knocked to the ground and you're instructed three times to press SPACE to activate the defibrilator. You can press it only when you're prompted, otherwise it doesn't work.
    It's a lame waste of time.
    Probably a bit too late to quote, but: I think they also did this because the story is about the suit taking control over you (symbiosis as mentioned in the storyline). The QTEs represent you loosing control over yourself and just becoming that nanosuit.

  18. #138
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzly View Post
    Probably a bit too late to quote, but: I think they also did this because the story is about the suit taking control over you (symbiosis as mentioned in the storyline). The QTEs represent you loosing control over yourself and just becoming that nanosuit.

    The ending of Halo 4 does this as well and it was super super lame. What happens in the end is you end up on a light bridge facing off against the big bad (I think he was called the Didact, I can't follow Halos preposterous story line having only played 3 and 4), when he uses his magic to throw you off the bridge. You cling onto the side, while your little Ai friend multiplies and holds onto the Didact. Then you regain control of Master Cheif, to be promoted by the following messages "Push (Left thumbstick icon) to climb), which upon completion you get "Press (Right Trigger Icon) to plant the bomb". GG, game over, a winrar is you.

  19. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by soldant View Post
    The counter-point to that is level design similar to Half Life 2 where they place crates containing supplies so that you leave one of those "arena style" fights and can recover no matter how much you lost.
    That's just bad level design then, not a fault of the medkit system. If smashing a crate triggers a variable which produces X number of healthpacks, and the X is too high a number, it will be almost identical to health regen. But that variable is still a controllable value. If designers control that value we can have a slightly forgiving yet learning experience each time. Health regen is binary. You're either at full health or you're dead.

    FEAR did a lot of things right. The enemy AI was pretty good and you could carry medkits. Theys till went overboard with the amount of medkits on each level, though. Playing it on the hardest difficulty without using bullet time was so much fun.

  20. #140
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    More than one function on the same button. Holy crap. I think it was one of the Fable games that had like "Dodge" and "Stop moving, put away your weapon" bound to the same key. So many deaths.Little non-interactive time wasting things. Like animations between menus. Maybe it's hiding loading, but how much do you really need to load between 'equipment' and 'skills'? And then at the extreme there's final fantasy style summons. Maybe it was cool the first time (probably not) but for the love of all that's holy can we move this along?

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