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  1. #241
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    I was on the ground for all of the air squads antics. I had a great time being pit crew and even got some kills with my MANA AV turret and Skyguard (dakkadakkadakka). Turns out Skyguards aren't half bad against Sundies as I even picked on of those off.

    Word of advice to people in scythes coming back to the safe zone, good god stop coming in so fast! The amount of you who crashed because you tried to land while going to fast was insane. Once you're in range of our skyguards, you have a little bit of flex to hover around and land safely.
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  2. #242
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus mrpier's Avatar
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    It's hard to judge incoming speed for landing though, probably my most frequent scythe suicide now that I've nearly stopped flipping over and flying into things for no good reason. Even harder if you do it in third person mode (easier to land in third person mode overall though, but harder to judge speed IMHO).

  3. #243
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    The safe zone was, with the exception of towards the end of the night and operations, always safe though. We had one mossie follow someone in at one point and he quickly ran when two Skyguards and a Sundy started shooting at him. You could, as some people did loop around while slowing down before coming to a landing.

    It's just a word of advice, I was on pit crew all night like I said and I'll say we lost a significant number of scythes from people trying to land them at speed.
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  4. #244
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus WallyTrooper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CMaster View Post
    Esamir
    Here we bounced around a lot from target to target and role to role. There was a period, around the attempt to take Echo Valley, where I started leading against orders, as the orders were guaranteeing us ages of boredom. We were probably at our most effective the two times we were on the Saerro-Eisa ridge, as AA and AV, once on foot, once in magriders, stopping TR units coming over the ridge.

    I don't entirely understand why we got bogged down in fighting over Saerro and Echo Valley, when we had adjacency and the numbers to take Eisa (at one point, we could potentially have stolen the TR cap in progress from under their noses.
    I was PL on Esamir so will try to explain some context:

    Initially squads were split up for ghost capping. Later we encountered growing resistance. With the growth of the resistance it was hard to know when to bunch everyone up and I was probably a little slow to order that. However, once ordered squads didn't bunch up very effectively and we had a few examples of squads being slow to redeploy or not being where they were told to be. So probably room for improvement on both sides.

    Re: not following orders. That's cool so long as PL knows. Bravo sought permission to deviate and I agreed. This is a good idea because the squad will always have a better view of things on the ground. Charlie didn't let me know that they had gone AWOL though I can't criticise because it was obvious the poor RO for Charlie was new and really struggling to manage the many voices all at once. Again, a learning point: let PL know if you think the orders are bad and explain why.

    As for why we hung around Echo/Saerro rather than pushing Eisa: I took a poll amongst the squad leads and consensus was that Saerro was key to getting Eisa. Was it the right call? I don't know but it was the consensus and people are free to send /tells if they have suggestions.

    I don't mean for this to sound defensive though realise it does a bit. Anyway, thanks for the feedback CMaster - it's useful to discuss things and learn from them.
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  5. #245
    Activated Node Socroft's Avatar
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    Mad props to sky squad tonight (sunday) we're getting better at it! It's nice to feel like we might have air superiority for once.

  6. #246
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    Quick, hide all the notes so our air superiority will last forever! Really want to join you Flying Giraffes now.

  7. #247
    Network Hub CaBBagE's Avatar
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    The air squad/platoon was serious fun although virtually certless lol! I guess the only downside was facing the Vulcan, 2 secs or less for my lib to got down to it :/ I'd happily have another go at it though, it brought a whole different feel to the game. Hats off to the ground crew as well they did a bloody awesome job and without whom we'd have not been able to operate at all!
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  8. #248
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus mrpier's Avatar
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    My impressions of the air squad.
    It worked reasonably well, we seemed to have enough aircraft up most of the time to achieve air dominance. I had specced my scythe initially for AA which after we had cleared the sky meant there was very little for me to do. I tried to do some hailstorm flybys of enemy ground but was soon discouraged by AA and those bloody vulcans.

    I'm not so sure how well the "safe zone" really works, it's nice to have a place with friendly AA to lure enemies to, but the zone was often too busy that I wanted to land there for repairs and rearms (both friendlies and enemies). Having two sunderers means it will attract a lot of attention as soon as it's spotted, and it seemed to me it was sometimes safer to find a tower or biolab to land at. Perhaps all we need is a friendly AA point close to where we are fighting?

    I often lost track of what the main platoon was doing and where they were.

    Some improvements I'd like to see

    Calling out targets in a sensible way (not sure about how to do this when it's a harasser zipping around an open esamir plain though Problematic that we can't see squadnumbers when flying. There's no saying follow Bravo 1's scythe for instance.

    Staying out of eachothers way (I guess this might come with experience)
    Organized strafing runs (pick a target, go in one by one organized by squad order maybe (bravo 1 goes first, then bravo 2 etc.) and focus fire that lib, galaxy, sunderer, tank etc.)

    Pick a wingman, any wingman

    I fear I'm starting to sound a bit too negative here, so I'll just say that I really liked flying in the air squad and I think it's a good idea and a nice addition to RPS, big ups to LaKroy for organizing this.

  9. #249
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus WallyTrooper's Avatar
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    My observations and suggestions for making the air squad even better.

    Re: the safe zone.

    Last night we had trouble with the safe zone being caught up in the main fighting. I think that was a peculiarity of where the fighting was and the topography of Esamir. When we were doing this on Amerish a few nights back we had plenty of good hiding spots. Perhaps if the safe zone is compromised we just suicide and pop up somewhere else - it's otherwise easy for the attacking force to follow us and hard for us to get away because sunderers are so slow. Generally though I think the safe zone is a good idea and we just need to practice and refine its implementation, IMHO.

    Re: coordination

    We've had mixed experiences and I think a lot of it comes down to how the PL and SLs in the main platoon feel about the air squad. Some are great for calling out targets, others forget we exist and things in between. Last night Jakkar seemed keen to use the air squad for reconnaisance. My perception was that the extra links in the communication meant that wasn't very efficient (radar scythe tells air RO, air RO tells main RO, main RO tells PL). Perhaps reconnaisance is better done with the odd scythe in the main platoon? I think as we get more practice with the air squad we'll work out what tasks it's good for so we'll do more of those and get better at avoiding no-win scenarios.

    I see these are relatively minor issues. I've had a great time in the air squad and hope to see it continue.

    Quick question: was the 'flare path' any use for pilots returning to the safe zone last night? I had fun making it and looking at it!
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  10. #250
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    My take (as someone whose 90% of the time on the ground) of things we could improve on

    1) We don't need the second sundy on the ground. It ended up causing more issues than anything else when people kept either forgetting to unlock it or abandoning it. This ended up causing delays in having the safe zone being able to redeploy because we had to wait for someone to get in the sundy to drive it. At one point whoever owned it went AFK without it being unlocked. One ammo sundy is enough. When it starts running low, someone else should go pull a new one and swap over.

    2) I think we should perhaps increase the number of people on the ground away from 4 and have it as some sort of ratio to the people in the air. 4 people work well when we have two Skyguards and 1 Sundy and then 8 Aircraft. The repairs are manageable and it's not too busy. However when we start getting more than 8 Scythes or when we cross into having close to two full squads, 4 people is no longer enough to man the Skyguards and do all the Aircraft needed with the frequency people are coming in. I think we should maybe have a minimum of 4 people (2 skyguards manned by engineers, 1 ammo sundy with AV turrets with two engineers) and then one more engineer for every X more Aircraft, maybe every 4.

    3) We have to establish some sort of runway or flight direction. So many close calls or outright accidents have happened. Please make sure you fly into the safe zone in 3rd person view to give you an idea of whose around you.
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  11. #251
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    These new resource costs for vehicles and fighting TR where everyone has a Striker, made flying a Scythe less then enjoyable.
    You cant even weave in behind mountains and terrain to break lock or shake the missiles, they hit you anyway.
    Trying to fly a slow lumbering liberator is worse.

    Felt like providing requested air-support over hotspots were almost always suicide runs.

    I had some success with diving down from above striker lock on range and then going back up again. But the damage done was negligible.

    Air-squad was more fun against the NC a few days ago.

  12. #252
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    Could we come up with a snappier name than air squad? It just feels cumbersome to say when you are requesting air strikes.

    My thoughts in last StarGir thursday were that it worked well in that I wasn't very busy at the start (as PL) so made an effort to hunt out and call in air targets. Which led to the other ROs for that bit remembering to call in air support more than we've seen previously. Some more presence (when we are doing split comms to some degree) in SL channel might be good - when I switched to being Charlie SL, I pretty much forgot about Air Squad.

    Suggestion: All members of air squad hang out in RO channel (or SL channel, whicever is used most for calling in targets (SL may be best in an idealized split comms situation). That way they all get the airstrike request without it having to be translated. Designated RO remains the only person to speak in RO-PL chat. If this works, then we could set up a special channel with these sorts of rules (hears RO/SL, but members can't talk in it).
    Last edited by CMaster; 01-07-2013 at 02:06 PM. Reason: clarity

  13. #253
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CMaster View Post
    Designated RO remains the only person to speak. If this works, then we could set up a special channel with these sorts of rules (hears RO/SL, but members can't talk in it).
    Wouldn't that mean the rest of us in the Air Squad would have to play in total silence? Or would something be able to set up so the RO of the Air Squad can talk to you guys but we can still talk to ourselves? On the ground crew we need to know whose coming in and if they're being followed, if the safe zone needs to move out to a new location etc.

    And yeah we need a sweet name for it.
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  14. #254
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus mrpier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WallyTrooper View Post
    Quick question: was the 'flare path' any use for pilots returning to the safe zone last night? I had fun making it and looking at it!
    That was the line of colored smoke, yes?

    I'm afraid I missed what direction we were supposed to fly into with that in the heat of a battle.

  15. #255
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus WallyTrooper's Avatar
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    I wasn't really expecting people to fly along the path or anything, just thought it would be cool and might help people spot the LZ more easily. I suppose the question I should be asking really is "did anyone find it obstructive?".
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  16. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus_Phish View Post
    Wouldn't that mean the rest of us in the Air Squad would have to play in total silence?
    Yeah, I screwed up with how I wrote it there. Normal PTT key in RO channel only goes to their own squad, so everyone could communicate normally. It's just that you'd also hear the target requests and sitreps made by infantry ROs. However, only the designated air RO should be making broadcasts, using their whisper key.

    It might be that this would make you all have to listen to extraneous crap, and be problematic. But it might also make airstrikes that much more responsive.

  17. #257
    Lesser Hivemind Node Ksempac's Avatar
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    I liked the smoke, for 2 reasons :
    - it makes the safe zone easy to spot
    - it remove the need for the air squad to be out of the main platoon (because we don't need both platoon and squad waypoints)

    However i don't think it's necessary to put all 4 colors together (though that was fun ). 1 is enough for that purpose.

  18. #258
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    Safe zone:
    - Not sure the repair Sundy was really needed with the amount of Engineers around.
    - Smoke might've helped pick it out, but I didn't really use it as an approach.
    - Flying libs and galaxies around the safe zone without colliding is a problem, and we need to figure out how to do this.

    Names:
    - AirGir was suggested a long time ago.
    - FlyGir?
    - CMaster's typo (StarGir) was actually not too bad...

  19. #259
    Activated Node Socroft's Avatar
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    The flare line was awesome, I loved it.

    re: name - I always like calling it the Flying Squad

  20. #260
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    RE: Landing at the safe zone - how about we always approach from the south of the Zone and we set up landing areas as "repair" zones. One problem I found on the ground crew was that a lot of the pilots just land where ever they can, usually further away than I'd like as I'd have to run/drive over to repair them. I dont mean to sound lazy, but rather it just seems inefficient.

    I'm aware however it's not always easy to get around the south and you might need to come in hot for emergency repairs. But if we had a dedicated entry we could avoid crashes and also you guys getting shot by our Skyguards.
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