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  1. #81
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soldant View Post
    Except about business, where they're as opaque as a lead wall, and sometimes about their failures. Which again isn't always a bad thing, but in a case like this when we know people have left Valve for whatever reason issuing a statement which is basically saying "No, we're just going to ignore this, we're not going to say if anyone left or not" is a bit silly.
    Because, like all companies, whatever they say can and likely will be used against them.
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  2. #82
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus soldant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    Because, like all companies, whatever they say can and likely will be used against them.
    That's already in effect here but unlike most companies Valve's failures are quickly forgotten. Dirt doesn't stick to them.

  3. #83
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Zephro's Avatar
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    I dunno while I've been here we've layed off whole game dev teams or half all at once, often to replace them with fresh faced graduates.

    I'm really confused why the one person firing/leaving is even a story.

  4. #84
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kadayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ado View Post
    The truth is we do not know why these people where laid off and there is a good chance we will never know. What soldant is saying, and what I am agreeing with, is that these people did not work out for Valve as a company and that they cannot employ people out of charity.
    I suspect the reasons vary from individual to individual. I wouldn't be surprised if a fair few of the lay offs might not of been through mutual consent. If someones a specialist in X and you've stopped doing X and are now doing Y then in many ways it's going to be frustrating for them from a career perspective if they aren't able to continue doing X and honing their established skill set. Being good at something requires a high degree of maintenance.

    Also I suspect some people just didn't work out/reach the appropriate level Valve expected of them.
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  5. #85
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus soldant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zephro View Post
    I'm really confused why the one person firing/leaving is even a story.
    Well, if I was cynical, I'd say it's because it's a female dev, and there's nothing like a good story about women in gaming to raise eyebrows.

    But to be more realistic it's because it's a higher profile name of a hardware hacker who apparently (apparently being key word here) had a lot to offer Valve, and yet still got dismissed or whatever. Also it's probably not this particular person that people are interested in, but rather the fact that we've seen apparent dismissals from Valve, something you just don't hear about.

  6. #86
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soldant View Post
    That's already in effect here but unlike most companies Valve's failures are quickly forgotten. Dirt doesn't stick to them.
    Because they don't say anything that'll make it stick, and ultimately, their customers are self-serving bastards who don't really care about the fates of devs.

    Sorta like how the gun control debate in America has gone on a surprisingly long period of time largely because every time the public would get bored, another​ shooting happened.
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  7. #87
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus soldant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    Because they don't say anything that'll make it stick
    They say plenty of things which don't stick. Case in point (and one I seem to bring up every other thread): the terrible screw-up over the 2003 HL2 release date.

  8. #88
    Lesser Hivemind Node ado's Avatar
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    To be fair Valve have laid off people before (like most recently one of the original CS designers and that Portal girl*) and no one really even raised an eyebrow. I think people are more stumped by the number of people that have quit/been fired this time around, which is like almost 10% of Valve's staff.

    *and considering what these two have decided to do as their post-Valve projects (rehashes of what they're known for), I can see why they where laid off
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  9. #89
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kadayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ado View Post
    To be fair Valve have laid off people before (like most recently one of the original CS designers and that Portal girl*) and no one really even raised an eyebrow. I think people are more stumped by the number of people that have quit/been fired this time around, which is like almost 10% of Valve's staff.

    *and considering what these two have decided to do as their post-Valve projects (rehashes of what they're known for), I can see why they where laid off
    They left of their own accord, they weren't laid off.
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  10. #90
    Lesser Hivemind Node ado's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soldant View Post
    the terrible screw-up over the 2003 HL2 release date.
    I have to say of all the things that Valve have done over the years, that one sticks the least because:

    a. it's a release date, something that no one in this industry knows how to keep
    b. Valve was hacked, the game leaked online, they publicly said so and have rightfully decided to redesign most of the game

    This hack/leak is something that would have destroyed a lesser company (remember this is Valve before Steam and infinite money).
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  11. #91
    Lesser Hivemind Node ado's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kadayi View Post
    They left of their own accord, they weren't laid off.
    Maybe, but maybe that's just PR.
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  12. #92
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soldant View Post
    They say plenty of things which don't stick. Case in point (and one I seem to bring up every other thread): the terrible screw-up over the 2003 HL2 release date.
    People pay attention to release dates?
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  13. #93
    Lesser Hivemind Node Kaira-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ado View Post
    I have to say of all the things that Valve have done over the years, that one sticks the least because:

    a. it's a release date, something that no one in this industry knows how to keep
    b. Valve was hacked, the game leaked online, they publicly said so and have rightfully decided to redesign most of the game

    This hack/leak is something that would have destroyed a lesser company (remember this is Valve before Steam and infinite money).

    The leak showed without shadow of doubt that the game was far from release condition, especially considering that the hack happened... what, two or three months before the alleged release? It was never going to ship on the given date, but Valve failed to communicate to anyone about it.

  14. #94
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kadayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ado View Post
    Maybe, but maybe that's just PR.
    No, there's no maybe about it. They both left of their own accord. They've said so themselves (nothing to do with Valve PR). Get your facts straight in future.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finicky View Post
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  15. #95
    Lesser Hivemind Node ado's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaira- View Post
    The leak showed without shadow of doubt that the game was far from release condition, especially considering that the hack happened... what, two or three months before the alleged release? It was never going to ship on the given date, but Valve failed to communicate to anyone about it.
    Wasn't the leaked version an (at the time) older build of the game? I'm not saying that Valve was about to release on time though... History proves me wrong in this regard as they NEVER release on time XD
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  16. #96
    Lesser Hivemind Node ado's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kadayi View Post
    No, there's no maybe about it. They both left of their own accord. They've said so themselves (nothing to do with Valve PR). Get your facts straight in future.
    PR is PR, don't have to be a corporation to do it. A very common practice in every business is to lay off people and tell them that they can say that they quit (it looks better on the CV than "I was fired by XYZ"). Shit, even the "You can't fire me, I quit!" line is a cliche by now...

    All I'm saying is that we cannot know for certain what hapened between those people and Valve... So that's why the "maybe".
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  17. #97
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ado View Post
    PR is PR, don't have to be a corporation to do it. A very common practice in every business is to lay off people and tell them that they can say that they quit (it looks better on the CV than "I was fired by XYZ"). Shit, even the "You can't fire me, I quit!" line is a cliche by now...

    All I'm saying is that we cannot know for certain what hapened between those people and Valve... So that's why the "maybe".
    Laying off and firing are two different things.
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  18. #98
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    Laying off and firing are two different things.
    I thought we already established this earlier in the thread. Have we hit a time paradox here? If so, I look forward to re-eating that delicious burrito I had last week.

  19. #99
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus_Phish View Post
    I thought we already established this earlier in the thread. Have we hit a time paradox here? If so, I look forward to re-eating that delicious burrito I had last week.
    It'll be just as bad coming out, too, though.
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  20. #100
    Lesser Hivemind Node ado's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    Laying off and firing are two different things.
    The result is the same, people end up without jobs, companies end up with less staff. So in all honesty it's a very semantic difference in the end with a more polite wording that, again, looks better on a CV.

    I hear about people being laid off all the time, never about said people being rehired. :/
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