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  1. #101
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    It'll be just as bad coming out, too, though.
    We have good ones here! That don't destroy your insides. They're even made with fresh ingredients and all.

    Quote Originally Posted by ado View Post
    The result is the same, people end up without jobs, companies end up will less staff. So in all honesty it's a very semantic difference in the end with a more polite wording that, again, looks better on a CV.

    I hear about people being laid off all the time, never about said people being rehired. :/
    You hear about war all the time too. Bad news spreads and attracts more interest than good.

  2. #102
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kadayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ado View Post
    PR is PR, don't have to be a corporation to do it. A very common practice in every business is to lay off people and tell them that they can say that they quit (it looks better on the CV than "I was fired by XYZ"). Shit, even the "You can't fire me, I quit!" line is a cliche by now...

    All I'm saying is that we cannot know for certain what hapened between those people and Valve... So that's why the "maybe".
    How many conspiracy theorists does it take to change a light-bulb?

    Two. One to change the light-bulb, and the other to find out who really change the light-bulb.


    How about instead of wheeling this 'they were pushed' conspiracy shit, maybe just go 'yeah my bad, they left' and be done with it? I mean what next? Did Viktor Antonov get fired as well?

    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/20...nov-left-valve

    Because it sounds like to me that he just wanted to go work on new things.

    Bizarre as it may seem Valve isn't for everyone.
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  3. #103
    Lesser Hivemind Node ado's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kadayi View Post
    How many conspiracy theorists does it take to change a light-bulb?

    Two. One to change the light-bulb, and the other to find out who really change the light-bulb.


    How about instead of wheeling this 'they were pushed' conspiracy shit, maybe just go 'yeah my bad, they left' and be done with it? I mean what next? Did Viktor Antonov get fired as well?

    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/20...nov-left-valve

    Because it sounds like to me that he just wanted to go work on new things.

    Bizarre as it may seem Valve isn't for everyone.
    What conspiracy? I am a self declared Valve fanboy, I have no reasons to argue anything against those guys. I am merely arguing for logic here.

    And I'm not pushing for any shit - I do not care if they where fired, laid off, quit or hanged by their bootstraps. I am simply saying that we cannot know for certain what happened between those people and Valve, so that's why the "maybe". And yes Viktor Antonov is the perfect example, he at least came out and explained in detail why he left and I believe the guy :P

    But even in his case we cannot know for certain under what circumstances he exited Valve. And I'm fine with that, because it's between him and Valve.
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  4. #104
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kadayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ado View Post
    [What conspiracy? I am a self declared Valve fanboy, I have no reasons to argue anything against those guys. I am merely arguing for logic here.
    'Logic' being that they we fired/pushed Vs choosing to leave of their own accord apparently. Because clearly no one in the right mind would choose to leave a company where procrastination and dead projects are common place.

    And I'm not pushing for any shit - I do not care if they where fired, laid off, quit or hanged by their bootstraps. I am simply saying that we cannot know for certain what happened between those people and Valve, so that's why the "maybe". And yes Viktor Antonov is the perfect example, he at least came out and explained in detail why he left and I believe the guy :P

    But even in his case we cannot know for certain under what circumstances he exited Valve. And I'm fine with that, because it's between him and Valve.
    Why would he lie? Why would anyone lie? If either he the CS guy or Kim Swift were pushed out why would any of them lie about it? Why if that was the case did Valve suddenly decide to change track and not deploy the same method with the people they let go recently? Why would Valve feel the need to cover up the real reason for their departure? What terrible shame is there in people leaving for Valve as a company, that Valve somehow (collectively) would feel the need to cover up the real reasons for their departure? Valve are a private firm. Who stays or goes doesn't impact their share price, or business model. There's no motivator for secrecy in that regard, and you're not making a compelling argument for one.
    Why yes you're right I'm deliciously evil

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  5. #105
    Lesser Hivemind Node ado's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kadayi View Post
    'Logic' being that they we fired/pushed Vs choosing to leave of their own accord apparently. Because clearly no one in the right mind would choose to leave a company where procrastination and dead projects are common place.
    Logic being that there is no way to know FOR CERTAIN what the circumstances of their departure where. Maybe they left on their own accord. Maybe they didn't.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kadayi View Post
    Why would he lie? Why would anyone lie? If either he the CS guy or Kim Swift were pushed out why would any of them lie about it? Why if that was the case did Valve suddenly decide to change track and not deploy the same method with the people they let go recently? Why would Valve feel the need to cover up the real reason for their departure? What terrible shame is there in people leaving for Valve as a company, that Valve somehow (collectively) would feel the need to cover up the real reasons for their departure? Valve are a private firm. Who stays or goes doesn't impact their share price, or business model. There's no motivator for secrecy in that regard, and you're not making a compelling argument for one.
    I do not know why would anyone lie. And yet these 25 people where instructed NOT TO DISCUSS the circumstances of their departure. What makes you think that Kim Swift and everyone else that left Valve did not get the same instructions? Maybe the details reflect badly on Valve. Maybe the details reflect badly on them (the people that where "laid off"). My point is that we do not know, and what we do know could very well be just PR.
    Last edited by ado; 21-02-2013 at 03:18 PM.
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  6. #106
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kadayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ado View Post
    Logic being that there is no way to know FOR CERTAIN what the circumstances of their departure where. Maybe they left on their own accord. Maybe they didn't.
    Occam's razor, and the balance of probability want a word.

    I do not know why would anyone lie. And yet these 25 people where instructed NOT TO DISCUSS the circumstances of their departure. What makes you think that Kim Swift and everyone else that left Valve did not get the same instructions? Maybe the details reflect badly on Valve. Maybe the details reflect badly on them (the people that where "laid off"). My point is that we do not know, and what we do know could very well be just PR.
    See above.

    Next you'll be assuring us 9/11 was an inside job at a guess?
    Why yes you're right I'm deliciously evil

    Tradition is the tyranny of dead men

    Steam:Kadayi Origin: Kadayi GFWL: Kadayi

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    *blush* I'm flattered by the attention boys, but please let's not make the thread about liddle old me


    Quote Originally Posted by Finicky View Post
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  7. #107
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Tikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ado View Post
    Logic being that there is no way to know FOR CERTAIN what the circumstances of their departure where. Maybe they left on their own accord. Maybe they didn't.
    How can I know FOR CERTAIN that all of you aren't just a product of my imagination?

  8. #108
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ado View Post
    The result is the same, people end up without jobs, companies end up with less staff.
    Until it comes time for those people to find new jobs.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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  9. #109
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    This thread has gotten way to tin foil hat.

    Honestly, it's nobodies business but Valves and their ex-employees, all of whom I'm sure will find new employment without too much trouble.

  10. #110
    Lesser Hivemind Node ado's Avatar
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    Fine then, 9/11 was an inside job XD

    The thing is that I was not trying to make any assumptions, just be objective according to the facts that we do know.
    Last edited by ado; 21-02-2013 at 04:14 PM.
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  11. #111
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus_Phish View Post
    This thread has gotten way to tin foil hat.

    Honestly, it's nobodies business but Valves and their ex-employees, all of whom I'm sure will find new employment without too much trouble.
    Hey, now who's rehashing things from page 2?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    Of course, the people in question in this case are well-known highly-skilled professionals, and will not have terrible difficulty finding further employment if their current department was indeed liquidated.
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  12. #112
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    The time paradox gets worse!

  13. #113
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Grizzly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ado View Post
    History proves me wrong in this regard as they NEVER release on time XD
    They didn't have the reputation for it at the time though (as they had only released one game at that point).

  14. #114
    Lesser Hivemind Node ado's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzly View Post
    They didn't have the reputation for it at the time though (as they had only released one game at that point).
    Half-Life 1 had delays as well though XD
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  15. #115
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ado View Post
    Half-Life 1 had delays as well though XD
    One data point does not a pattern make.
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  16. #116
    Lesser Hivemind Node ado's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    One data point does not a pattern make.
    Sure, but the HL1 delay is quite infamous as well because Valve redesigned the game completely. Also what was supposed to be their follow up game (Prospero?) never saw the light of day... I remember also reading a few years ago that they still plan to make it some day.
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  17. #117
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ado View Post
    Sure, but the HL1 delay is quite infamous as well because Valve redesigned the game completely. Also what was supposed to be their follow up game (Prospero?) never saw the light of day... I remember also reading a few years ago that they still plan to make it some day.
    So what, tho? Valve got a reputation for releasing everything really, really late, of which HL1 was obviously one of their first projects, but at the same time they also got the reputation of taking shit out that didn't really work and really, really having good quality control, of which HL1 was obviously one of their first projects.

    Think about it: There's no real "designed by committee" game a la Aliens: Colonial Marines or slapdash "we have no discipline at all" tomfoolery of Duke Nukem Forever, so aside from the HL3 die-hards, everybody gives Valve a pass. They'll never give official statements, obviously, but I think the writing's on the wall: "But you promised" isn't a good enough reason to make a game - the game must first be good.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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  18. #118
    Lesser Hivemind Node ado's Avatar
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    Chill dude, I'm on your side this time... :P
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  19. #119
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ado View Post
    Chill dude, I'm on your side this time... :P
    Well, the point was that Valve didn't have the reputation at the time. Which is true: They didn't. HL1 was part of how they got the reputation, but "Valve Time" as a concept came a few years later.
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  20. #120
    Lesser Hivemind Node ado's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    Well, the point was that Valve didn't have the reputation at the time. Which is true: They didn't. HL1 was part of how they got the reputation, but "Valve Time" as a concept came a few years later.
    I agree... I think Valve time came from TF2 being in development FOREVER (year or two since they've finished HL1 basically). And they kept delaying it over and over. Valve is a fun company to follow I must say, you never know what you'll get but you know it's gonna be great.
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