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  1. #21
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novel View Post
    I look at the announcements of new and drool worthy games like the Witcher 3, whatever obsidian's doing by all accounts, and star citizen. I know that i likely wont buy them though, or only after extensive rationalization when there on a preposterously cheap sale. Billions are sunk into this industry, and on a site which discusses current events in gaming, apple's and others prohibitive outlook on such, closed markets and much else, i struggle to yes, justify the 40 quid i spent on Arkham City, or even to a lesser extent the ridiculously cheap bundles i snapped up. Do games, especially games as they are now, or even in their ideal form, need this much time and resources, irrespective of how much i want to venture into new worlds? Aren't their better ways of doing it, of sating our need for rest and relaxation and creativity without neglecting the rest?
    I got two things from this:

    1) You're a cheapskate: You admittedly love the games but refuse to pay for them.
    2) You're an obsessive: You say you lose sleep over games, but playing them nonstop is not a requirement.
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  2. #22
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    To be honest Zephro I think my original reply to you was trying to find a polite way to say "learn some self-control or stop whining" :-P

    The question of whether or not there is some sort of canonical worthiness to some hobbies over others is probably a fundamental and irreconcilable area of disagreement. I don't think there is. Talk about the worthiness of hobbies smells a little too much of keeping the disenfranchised down for me to be happy about it.
    Irrelevant on further examination of the rest of the thread.

  3. #23
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Zephro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NathanH View Post
    To be honest Zephro I think my original reply to you was trying to find a polite way to say "learn some self-control or stop whining" :-P

    The question of whether or not there is some sort of canonical worthiness to some hobbies over others is probably a fundamental and irreconcilable area of disagreement. I don't think there is. Talk about the worthiness of hobbies smells a little too much of keeping the disenfranchised down for me to be happy about it.
    And I think my original post wasn't whining but just observing a dilemma we all feel. :-P

    I don't think there is some sort of canonical worthiness, just that people don't mean "socially acceptable" when they talk about it. Saying what ever is worthy is what people enjoy is far too post modern for me though.

  4. #24
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus mashakos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zephro View Post
    Personally I get an uneasy sense of dread about how I'm a programmer in the industry, I mean I could probably get a job programming educational software to improve schools or hospitals or something else with a social impact I consider more fulfilling.
    "What’s wrong with education cannot be fixed with technology. No amount of technology will make a dent."
    - Steve Jobs

    See? Steve just saved you from a terrible career path switch!
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  5. #25
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Zephro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mashakos View Post
    "What’s wrong with education cannot be fixed with technology. No amount of technology will make a dent."
    - Steve Jobs

    See? Steve just saved you from a terrible career path switch!
    The minute I take moral guidance from that prick... also as an egotistical basically libertarian he can go take a jump on another count.

  6. #26
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus mashakos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zephro View Post
    The minute I take moral guidance from that prick... also as an egotistical basically libertarian he can go take a jump on another count.
    I don't agree with a lot of his views but he's right on this one: a software suite is not going to replace a great teacher with proven teaching methods.
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  7. #27
    Lesser Hivemind Node ado's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mashakos View Post
    "What’s wrong with education cannot be fixed with technology. No amount of technology will make a dent."
    - Steve Jobs
    As a mostly self-educated person (thanks to technology for the most part) I take offense at that statement.
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  8. #28
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Zephro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mashakos View Post
    I don't agree with a lot of his views but he's right on this one: a software suite is not going to replace a great teacher with proven teaching methods.
    Well no but it could make said teacher's job a bit easier, or make the admission process to uni go smoother etc. So he was making a spurious point. Also the particular quote just stinks of smug self worth.

  9. #29
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus mashakos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ado View Post
    As a mostly self-educated person (thanks to technology for the most part) I take offense at that statement.
    it's pretty clear that the quote is in reference to school education, not autodidacticism. Calm down :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zephro View Post
    Well no but it could make said teacher's job a bit easier, or make the admission process to uni go smoother etc. So he was making a spurious point. Also the particular quote just stinks of smug self worth.
    sure it can help, but there is a danger school teachers use software as a crutch to not do as good a job as they should. The guy actually went into great detail about the importance of great teachers, maybe you should read the article?
    Last edited by mashakos; 19-02-2013 at 04:07 PM.
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  10. #30
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Zephro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mashakos View Post
    it's pretty clear that the quote is in reference to school education, not autodidacticism. Calm down :)
    It's probably entirely due to self education as Steve Jobs is just the type of smug prick to think him making it for himself is an indictment on the whole education sector.

  11. #31
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    At the very least you can use good software to make the admin part of the job less of a burden. When I was teaching at university we had some handy tools that made life easy for us. That was useful.
    Irrelevant on further examination of the rest of the thread.

  12. #32
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus mashakos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NathanH View Post
    At the very least you can use good software to make the admin part of the job less of a burden. When I was teaching at university we had some handy tools that made life easy for us. That was useful.
    yeah I don't think Steve was referring to ERP/filing systems :/
    (focus on what would matter when it comes to inspiring a young student)
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  13. #33
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Zephro's Avatar
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    I got this far:
    It’s a political problem. The problems are sociopolitical. The problems are unions. You plot the growth of the NEA [National Education Association] and the dropping of SAT scores, and they’re inversely proportional.
    Then decided he could go screw himself.

    I re-read it. He can still go screw himself as a libertarian arse wipe. It sounds like the exact nonsense Michael Gove is espousing over here.

    Sorry, I am totally derailing the thread but that article made me genuinely angry.

  14. #34
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus mashakos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zephro View Post
    I got this far:

    Then decided he could go screw himself.

    I re-read it. He can still go screw himself as a libertarian arse wipe. It sounds like the exact nonsense Michael Gove is espousing over here.

    Sorry, I am totally derailing the thread but that article made me genuinely angry.
    yeah, not going to say disbanding unions is an awesome thing (!)
    I do think that treating teachers as talent rather than assembly line workers is crucial. I've been through the experience of being taught by assembly line worker types, it's not good :(
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  15. #35
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    I come back and it appears Zephro and Mashakos have come to the conclusion that Steve Jobs doesn't know jack about education.

    This is also my assessment, considering how little confidence he had in his own consumers to understand computers.
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  16. #36
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Zephro's Avatar
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    In my defence I also called him a Libertarian bumwipe, libertarian being the dirty word in that sentence.

  17. #37
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zephro View Post
    In my defence I also called him a Libertarian bumwipe, libertarian being the dirty word in that sentence.
    Indeed, at least TP is useful to society.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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  18. #38
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    This whole fulfilling thing annoys me. Why is it more fulfilling? Because you are told it should be. Does it actually fulfill you?

    I know many people who absolutely love doing what is considered proper, like helping the poor in Africa and being an emergency paramedic while also traveling the world.

    I know other people who tried it and hated it. Some of these people were more effective than the ones who were fulfilled and some were not.

    Are each of the 4 groups equally fulfilled? I doubt it. Many people are fulfilled doing stupid artistic crap that no one appreciates. They have to tell themselves that other people are too dumb to understand. So they are fulfilled, and yet, useless to others.

    Did they live a good life just because they are fulfilled? How does the value of a person who is fulfilled excelling at obscure video games differ from one who excels at obscure art styles that only 100 other people care about? Society tells us that one of these is better than the other. Yet in many societies or cultures art is considered frivolous and a waste of time. They would look at our famous art celebrities and think it was totally stupid.

    I guess I'm just one of those infernal relativists, perhaps with a touch of nihilism.

  19. #39
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sabrage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pakoito View Post
    Just last year? It's my 5th already. The only time I'm not playing is when I am stuck with my crapbook, which was good part of 2011 and half 2012.
    And Warcraft 3 and League of Legends before that, which are also cheap games with an absurdly high ROI.

  20. #40
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus pakoito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabrage View Post
    And Warcraft 3 and League of Legends before that, which are also cheap games with an absurdly high ROI.
    I chose the evil HoN path.

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