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  1. #61
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus DaftPunk's Avatar
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    Still doesn't look any special.

  2. #62
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kadayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaftPunk View Post
    Still doesn't look any special.
    Nothing ever does with you though does it Daft? Maybe if you quit comparing games to the impossible imaginary standards in your head and instead compared them to what's presently out there in reality, you might actually get a tad excited for a title for once in your life. A bizarre proposition I know, but maybe give it a try sometime.
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  3. #63
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Zephro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kadayi View Post
    The whole move towards PC architecture is essentially to make development that much easier for third party devs. The core processor was a huge gamble by Sony because they (naively) thought they were going to sell as many PS3s as they did PS2s and that the sheer volume of units would be enough to encourage myriad platform exclusives. That reality didn't pan out and in the early days a few developers fell foul of exclusivity in terms of production coupled with poor sales.
    Errr the 360 doesn't really have a PC architecture in terms of x86. We made the PS4 x86 mostly because it's fucking cheaper.

  4. #64
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kadayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zephro View Post
    Errr the 360 doesn't really have a PC architecture in terms of x86. We made the PS4 x86 mostly because it's fucking cheaper.
    The fundamentals are a lot closer in terms of how the processors work in the 360 with those you find in a PC Vs the Cell system which is completely different.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finicky View Post
    Kadayi will remain the worst poster on the interwebs.
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    Their early work was a little too new wave for my tastes....

  5. #65
    Lesser Hivemind Node Shooop's Avatar
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    How do we know the game is even good enough for us to want on PC? Or are we just angry it's not likely to see one anyway? I have trouble keeping up with you guys sometimes.
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  6. #66
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Zephro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kadayi View Post
    The fundamentals are a lot closer in terms of how the processors work in the 360 with those you find in a PC Vs the Cell system which is completely different.
    It's "closer" but not at all the same. The CPU is, but the PPU on the cell is identical to one of the cores in the Xenon. The memory architecture isn't like programming for a PC and quite a few other programming details are different. Also SPU programming is basically the same as using compute units on a GPU on PC.

    Just because the new pair are based on x86 they still aren't going to be anything like developing for PC really. I mean I do know some console developers do things suspiciously similar to locking games to CPU speed as they know the exact clock speed, nothing really that bad these days. But you cut a whole load of corners on a console game and they still will because it's fixed hardware.

    Just thought I'd add a bit of realism to the "oh it's just a PC there's no excuse not to port now" feeling.

    EDIT: Also the main point for going x86 is that it's just cheaper to get something basically off the shelf from AMD, who spend all the R&D money instead of Sony and MS.
    Last edited by Zephro; 21-02-2013 at 05:33 PM.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shooop View Post
    How do we know the game is even good enough for us to want on PC? Or are we just angry it's not likely to see one anyway? I have trouble keeping up with you guys sometimes.
    I think we are just angry, just because.
    Irrelevant on further examination of the rest of the thread.

  8. #68
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus The JG Man's Avatar
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    Well I know why I want it on the PC.

    Bungie make games I find enjoyable. I think a lot of people have similar feelings. It's a game that looks interesting, shame we might not be getting it. Seems pretty simple to me.
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  9. #69
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Yeah. I might not be big on Bungie's level design, but they know gameplay and balance and Halo is still one of the best multiplayer FPSes (and one of the last "old school" ones that have pickups and the like).
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  10. #70
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    The shooting in Halo feels great, with the exception of the nerf-assault rifle. It's also such an easy and fun game to just fall in and out of with your friends or online and be decent at.

    I know because we never got Halo 3 and the rest on PC and we got the first two late, we're all meant to hate Halo, but Halo games are decent fun.

  11. #71
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Unaco's Avatar
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    HALO did something pretty remarkable, groundbreaking, World changing (or whatever superlative you want to use) with the console FPS, or just FPS in general. Destiny may well do similar things, but for the MMO, and it'd be a shame to miss that on the PC. From what I gather, Bungie have something like a 10 year plan for the game and the world and all the rest... Would be nice if the PC was invited along for the journey.
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  12. #72
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    I just hope there is a gun like the Halo 1 AR. I spent the entire game using that thing because it vibrated those old huge xbox pads like nothing else,

    And for all that hysteria over it not coming to PC, IT IS, you only need to data mine Bungie's site, check a few shop listings on the internet.

    This forum is getting somewhat gullible like Reddit and willing to believe any and all bad news no matter the source.

    Anyway, some ps4 footage of Destiny:

    (personal highlight is the clouds undergoing a day to night change in fastforward)


  13. #73
    Lesser Hivemind Node Shooop's Avatar
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    I thought Halo was pretty good, but nothing mind-blowing. The environments were too cramped at times because of barriers like mountains to be as expansive as some people tell me it was.

    As for the video, the character models look like they're from Rage. But those were one of the few good things from that game, so let's be happy for that. Will there be a persistent world, or is he just using that to describe character customization (which pretty much renders using the term pointless)?


    Let's sit back and watch what happens. If it turns out to be something you'd definitely want to play and PCs aren't invited to the show, then you all can start getting angry. But it's kind of silly to get upset over something that's mostly speculation (the platforms and game itself) right now.
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  14. #74
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus SirKicksalot's Avatar
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    If you like Crytek's games, you'll like Halo.
    When Far Cry launched one highly praised feature was that you could take down the commander of an enemy group and the others would perform worse. Halo did that before.
    It also featured the super-dude with vehicles in a sandbox concept of Crysis... and the "every linear level is shit" thing.

  15. #75
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    Yeah it was pretty fun to kill the Brutes and see the grunts running off like cowards.

    The grenades also felt great and I do love the BR.

  16. #76
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus The JG Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Swayze View Post
    you only need to data mine Bungie's site, check a few shop listings on the internet.
    I'd love to see the shop listings, but it's been shown that the data mining proves that it's basically a copy and paste job from other Activision stuff, so it doesn't necessarily mean anything specific. I also don't think we're gullible to the extent of wanting to believing bad news, but I also think there's plenty of room for healthy scepticism. They so far haven't said there's a PC version and there's been enough noise at the moment to elicit a response. Whether or not that's a good thing, well...Until they say for sure, I'm going to be reserved either way.
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  17. #77
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kadayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zephro View Post
    EDIT: Also the main point for going x86 is that it's just cheaper to get something basically off the shelf from AMD, who spend all the R&D money instead of Sony and MS.
    I doubt it's cheaper than doubling the number of Sony developed cell processors, upgrading the GPU and throwing on some extra RAM when push comes to shove. Which would be an entirely viable option as far as upgrade paths go, and one that would of allowed for on board backwards compatibility. So I'm still inclined to feel that going X86 is largely down to wanting to court 3rd party publishers/developers at the end of the day by making life a hell of a lot easier for them in the long term.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finicky View Post
    Kadayi will remain the worst poster on the interwebs.
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    Their early work was a little too new wave for my tastes....

  18. #78
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kadayi View Post
    I doubt it's cheaper than doubling the number of Sony developed cell processors, upgrading the GPU and throwing on some extra RAM when push comes to shove. Which would be an entirely viable option as far as upgrade paths go, and one that would of allowed for on board backwards compatibility. So I'm still inclined to feel that going X86 is largely down to wanting to court 3rd party publishers/developers at the end of the day by making life a hell of a lot easier for them in the long term.
    ...

    Developing new processors is VERY expensive. The only reason Cell was (arguably) viable was that it was developed with (government) research in mind.

    If by "doubling the number of sony developed cell processors" you mean just putting two chips in a box: That adds to the complexity drastically by now forcing an (even more) hybrid programming model on developers and a more complex hierarchy.

    As opposed to, as Zeph so eloquently put it: getting something off the proverbial shelf. That pushes all research costs to somebody else (or you negotiate a deal where you help with some costs to get a discount, whatever works). Then, your only concern is software/libraries to make it all work together.

    At the very least:
    Modified/more Cell: Lots of hardware reserach AND lots of software research
    What Sony did: Lots of software research


    Also, take it from someone who has actually coded for cell (albeit, in a reserach capacity): Cell is yucky. And, more importantly/pertinently, you also have to try different programming "tricks" as opposed to an x86 environment where you can use the same tricks that sane/non-research people have been using for decades.
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  19. #79
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kadayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    Developing new processors is VERY expensive. The only reason Cell was (arguably) viable was that it was developed with (government) research in mind.
    True, but the research is already done (the chip exists). So the overhead is zero. Regardless of whatever chip they use, Sony still have to create a new console main board to accommodate them, so the point is kind of moot.

    If by "doubling the number of sony developed cell processors" you mean just putting two chips in a box: That adds to the complexity drastically by now forcing an (even more) hybrid programming model on developers and a more complex hierarchy.
    Sure, but Zeph was the one that said the principal reason for switching to the X86 had everything to do with reducing costs and zero to do with benefiting developers.

    Also, take it from someone who has actually coded for cell (albeit, in a research capacity): Cell is yucky. And, more importantly/pertinently, you also have to try different programming "tricks" as opposed to an x86 environment where you can use the same tricks that sane/non-research people have been using for decades.
    Which again ties in with exactly what I'm saying. Years ago before the PS3 was even launched I recall Gabe Newell outlining the fact that Sony were essentially attempting to monopolize development studios by using a console architecture so ass backwards compared to that of the opposition (PC/360) that it would make the porting of PS3 titles a logistical and financial nightmare for many of them. Sony believed the PS3 would sell as extensively as the PS2 and pretty much everyone would be forced to develop for them first and foremost and the 360 would be starved out. The overall lack of market penetration of the PS3 however due to its absurdly high price point simply didn't make PS3 exclusives a viable a proposition for most 3rd party developers/publishers especially the big players like EA and Activision. Sony's arrogance bit them in the ass, and did them no favours with publishers or developers on the whole. So yeah I'd say developing a console that makes life easier for devs was probably a thing.
    Last edited by Kadayi; 22-02-2013 at 01:52 AM.
    Why yes you're right I'm deliciously evil

    Tradition is the tyranny of dead men

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finicky View Post
    Kadayi will remain the worst poster on the interwebs.
    Gifmaster 4000 2014 Year of the Gif

    Their early work was a little too new wave for my tastes....

  20. #80
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kadayi View Post
    Nothing ever does with you though does it Daft?
    I get excited whenever know I'll get to drag someone into an corner and kill/knock them out*, or slip through an area unnoticed by pulling at the frayed edges of the guards inherent behaviour. Stealth being an occasional pleasure is no crime in my mind but often people act like all opponents must be aware of you or its no fun.

    *It's good in games too.
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