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  1. #21
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Grizzly's Avatar
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    Gentlemen, you are the product of several million years of evolution. Each one of you has been subject to an education that others can only dream of, and you are all living in areas of the world that are sophisticated enough that you can buy the most sophisticated hardware ever developed in our known universe.

    Please act like it.
    Last edited by Grizzly; 21-02-2013 at 10:06 PM.

  2. #22
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kelron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wheelz View Post
    I'll look at getting some more ram. As it stands would I be better off finding 4gb's at 800mhz and just replacing what I currently have, or would getting an extra 2gb at 800mhz work just as well?

    Also, is there a noticable difference between getting 2x 2gb sticks and say 4x 1gb sticks? as using this list (as it's where I'll likely end up buying from) the prices appear roughly the same.
    I'd just go for another 2GB with the same timings as your current RAM (is that one 2GB stick or 2x1?). Your motherboard supports dual channel memory, so you're best off keeping an even number of sticks. The performance advantage from dual channel is not big though, nowhere near twice as fast.

    There is a small possibility that it won't run in dual channel mode or be unstable if you don't have your RAM in matched pairs, but since you're trying to save money I don't think its worth getting rid of your existing stick(s).

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzly View Post
    Gentlemen, you are the product of several million years of evolution. Each one of you has been subject to an education that others can only dream of, and you are all living in areas of the world that are sophisticated enough that you can buy the most sophisticated hardware ever developed in our known universe.

    Please act like it.
    Whilst I appreciate the spirit of this - I feel like I've been swamped in platitudes and patronisation - you need to sharpen up your admonitions a bit there :)

    Mashakos is becoming the forum's raving-mad techno-contrarian - I feel I need to slap him from time to time - it's playful, no injuries yet - keep your Werthers Originals for now :)

  4. #24
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Grizzly's Avatar
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    Yeah well, I was secretly venting my rage against the lot of you in there :P. The problem is that many people who feel attacked then have the desire to defend themselves, thus further escelating the whole situation (Force answers force and all that). It is starting to clog up the tech support forums, and that is NOT GOOD. I know you have a problem with Mashkakos - you can resolve that by just putting the man on your ignore list, and ignoring him.

    So, gentlemen, please be excellent towards each other.

  5. #25
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus mashakos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trjp View Post
    This is nonsense - getting chips which support dual,triple,quad channel offers a performance increase, but it's not double/treble/quadruple in any meaningful sense.

    Given the cost of DDR2 memory now, you'd be crazy to buy all-new-memory, just get another 2GB and shove it in there and you'll see a decent improvement.
    This website benchmarked bandwidth of single vs triple channel. Single channel bandwidth: 10Gb/sec, Triple channel bandwidth: 14.5 GB/sec

    http://www.behardware.com/articles/8...s-timings.html
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  6. #26
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kelron's Avatar
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    Not really relevant to a guy trying to get extra life out of an aging PC.

  7. #27
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sakkura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mashakos View Post
    This website benchmarked bandwidth of single vs triple channel. Single channel bandwidth: 10Gb/sec, Triple channel bandwidth: 14.5 GB/sec

    http://www.behardware.com/articles/8...s-timings.html
    Memory bandwidth does go up dramatically with dual, triple and quad channel configurations. But the increased memory bandwidth doesn't always have much impact on performance. Particularly not beyond dual channel.

    For the OP, it just means getting 2 x 2 GB is a little better than 1 x 4 GB.

  8. #28
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus mashakos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelron View Post
    Not really relevant to a guy trying to get extra life out of an aging PC.
    The relevant part:
    Single channel DDR2 speed: 400mhz
    Dual channel DDR2 speed: 800mhz

    Speed and bandwidth have a noticeable impact on performance Sakkura, why don't youtry paying modern video games on a pc with SDRAM?
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  9. #29
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sakkura's Avatar
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    SDRAM?

    Look, the difference between single channel and dual channel performance in GTA4 seems to be around 2-3 FPS.

  10. #30
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus mashakos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sakkura View Post
    SDRAM?

    Look, the difference between single channel and dual channel performance in GTA4 seems to be around 2-3 FPS.
    Hah, ram and framerates. Ram is important for streaming game assets while moving through a game. The bandwidth and ram speed start to make a difference in a racing game for example
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  11. #31
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kelron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mashakos View Post
    The relevant part:
    Single channel DDR2 speed: 400mhz
    Dual channel DDR2 speed: 800mhz
    DDR and dual channel aren't the same thing. No one's denying that dual channel is faster, but the gain is not enough to justify spending twice as much on a tight budget.

    Wheelz could buy another 2GB of RAM in the same number of sticks with the same timings as his current RAM and it will most likely run fine in dual channel mode. Even if it doesn't he'll see a significant performance increase from having twice as much RAM. Or he could buy 4GB and replace his current RAM, which in all likelihood will not be measurably faster than simply adding more.

  12. #32
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus mashakos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelron View Post
    DDR and dual channel aren't the same thing. No one's denying that dual channel is faster, but the gain is not enough to justify spending twice as much on a tight budget.

    Wheelz could buy another 2GB of RAM in the same number of sticks with the same timings as his current RAM and it will most likely run fine in dual channel mode. Even if it doesn't he'll see a significant performance increase from having twice as much RAM. Or he could buy 4GB and replace his current RAM, which in all likelihood will not be measurably faster than simply adding more.
    You sound confused
    To the OP: get 2 sticks and not 4 sticks if u are getting DDR2
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  13. #33
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sakkura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mashakos View Post
    Hah, ram and framerates. Ram is important for streaming game assets while moving through a game. The bandwidth and ram speed start to make a difference in a racing game for example
    Streaming assets puts a heavy load on the storage drive, the RAM is twiddling its thumbs in comparison.

  14. #34
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kelron's Avatar
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    I'll restate it simply, if it was really that confusing.

    The (possible) slight advantage gained from replacing all your RAM is not worth the extra cost at this point. Just get another 2GB of whatever you already have.

    Also, either 2x2GB sticks or 4x1GB are capable of running in dual channel mode.

  15. #35
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    I'm not entirely sure Mashakos isn't just trying to derail people's threads now - he attacked my choice of hardware in the Project Cars thread and now he's pretending not to understand the difference between "memory being faster" and "PC being faster" - he cannot be that daft, it has to be a pretense?

    If he IS that daft - well - anyway, OP - just get more memory if you can afford it because if a bit of stutter is your only complaint, that will likely solve it for a LOT less than the cost a new PC (and your old memory will be worth something when you upgarde anyway)

  16. #36
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Grizzly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelron
    Wheelz could buy another 2GB of RAM in the same number of sticks with the same timings as his current RAM and it will most likely run fine in dual channel mode. Even if it doesn't he'll see a significant performance increase from having twice as much RAM. Or he could buy 4GB and replace his current RAM, which in all likelihood will not be measurably faster than simply adding more.
    ^^

    Just make sure it uses the same timings and frequencies (you can google those easily). heck, get an identical module. The more similar they are to each other, the better, although it is not a huge deal breaker if they are not. The increase in performance from just having 2 gb of extra ram should cover you until you can make a full upgrade.
    Last edited by Grizzly; 22-02-2013 at 06:20 PM.

  17. #37
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Boris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mashakos View Post
    The relevant part:
    Single channel DDR2 speed: 400mhz
    Dual channel DDR2 speed: 800mhz
    Nope. The signalling speed doesn't change if you go from single to dual.

  18. #38
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Grizzly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boris View Post
    Nope. The signalling speed doesn't change if you go from single to dual.
    This is correct.
    And even if it did, lower clockspeeds means your ram can run at significantly lower timings, which negates the mhz difference.

  19. #39
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sakkura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzly View Post
    This is correct.
    And even if it did, lower clockspeeds means your ram can run at significantly lower timings, which negates the mhz difference.
    Timings are measures in cycles, so lower clocks increase latencies; the lower timings you can usually achieve concomitantly simply nullify that handicap.

  20. #40
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Grizzly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sakkura View Post
    Timings are measures in cycles, so lower clocks increase latencies; the lower timings you can usually achieve concomitantly simply nullify that handicap.
    That is what I meant, sorry if that was not clear.

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