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  1. #361
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    At most, I'm the gall stones that are making it hurt for gaming to wee.

  2. #362
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Hypernetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serenegoose View Post
    At most, I'm the gall stones that are making it hurt for gaming to wee.
    No, you are literally the cancer that is killing gaming. People who get distracted by "ooh shiny!" and don't realize that they are having horse shit shoveled into their mouth while they are distracted. Games have been stripped and dumbed down consistently for a long time now and it keeps getting worse. We are heading towards some kind of singularity where all creativity is gone and we are just left with 100% generic man shoots.

    People like you apparently enjoy these generic husks for some reason.

  3. #363
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    No, you are literally the cancer that is killing gaming. People who get distracted by "ooh shiny!" and don't realize that they are having horse shit shoveled into their mouth while they are distracted. Games have been stripped and dumbed down consistently for a long time now and it keeps getting worse. We are heading towards some kind of singularity where all creativity is gone and we are just left with 100% generic man shoots.

    People like you apparently enjoy these generic husks for some reason.
    I'm really too excellent to continue this conversation further.

  4. #364
    Network Hub Protoman's Avatar
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    This poem might have to do with where Elizabeth got her real name:

    Annabel Lee by Edgar Allan Poe

    It was many and many a year ago,
    In a kingdom by the sea,
    That a maiden there lived whom you may know
    By the name of ANNABEL LEE;
    And this maiden she lived with no other thought
    Than to love and be loved by me.

    I was a child and she was a child,
    In this kingdom by the sea;
    But we loved with a love that was more than love-
    I and my Annabel Lee;
    With a love that the winged seraphs of heaven
    Coveted her and me.

    And this was the reason that, long ago,
    In this kingdom by the sea,
    A wind blew out of a cloud, chilling
    My beautiful Annabel Lee;
    So that her highborn kinsman came
    And bore her away from me,
    To shut her up in a sepulchre
    In this kingdom by the sea.

    The angels, not half so happy in heaven,
    Went envying her and me-
    Yes!- that was the reason (as all men know,
    In this kingdom by the sea)
    That the wind came out of the cloud by night,
    Chilling and killing my Annabel Lee.

    But our love it was stronger by far than the love
    Of those who were older than we-
    Of many far wiser than we-
    And neither the angels in heaven above,
    Nor the demons down under the sea,
    Can ever dissever my soul from the soul
    Of the beautiful Annabel Lee.

    For the moon never beams without bringing me dreams
    Of the beautiful Annabel Lee;
    And the stars never rise but I feel the bright eyes
    Of the beautiful Annabel Lee;
    And so, all the night-tide, I lie down by the side
    Of my darling- my darling- my life and my bride,
    In the sepulchre there by the sea,
    In her tomb by the sounding sea.
    As for the stuff on combat, that's so ridiculously subjective that you can't really have a coherent argument about it. It's basically just "Well I like apples!" and a reply of "Well I like oranges!" over and over again.

  5. #365
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    Hyper, here was my complaint about the gun play in Bioshock.

    Everything wanted to melee you except for gun turrets who wanted to shoot you. The majority of your enemies would run around at high speed and charge you and club you. Combine that with weapons, which while looked pretty badass when you upgraded them and got to see the extra ammo clip or the steam release valve, didn't make for fun gun play at all. The guns fired clunky, at opponents constantly on the move.

    In BI, the enemies for the most part, all want to shoot you, bar some guys who try melee you. Then you have the special ones, who brought new things to combat. The guns, look pretty cool, it's a shame you can't get them to look cooler as you upgrade them, but they all shoot so much better and at enemies that are much more enjoyable than random junkies in bunny masks.

    Is BI the absolute best shooter game ever? God no, there's so many more games with better shooting mechanics than this game. That doesn't make it the worst either. At best it's to the good side of middle of the road.

    And try not call people "the cancer killing gaming", we're not 4Chan.
    "Halo is designed to make the player think "I look like that, I am macho sitting in my undies with my xbox""

    Steam ID

  6. #366
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Hypernetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus_Phish View Post
    Hyper, here was my complaint about the gun play in Bioshock.

    Everything wanted to melee you except for gun turrets who wanted to shoot you. The majority of your enemies would run around at high speed and charge you and club you. Combine that with weapons, which while looked pretty badass when you upgraded them and got to see the extra ammo clip or the steam release valve, didn't make for fun gun play at all. The guns fired clunky, at opponents constantly on the move.

    In BI, the enemies for the most part, all want to shoot you, bar some guys who try melee you. Then you have the special ones, who brought new things to combat. The guns, look pretty cool, it's a shame you can't get them to look cooler as you upgrade them, but they all shoot so much better and at enemies that are much more enjoyable than random junkies in bunny masks.

    Is BI the absolute best shooter game ever? God no, there's so many more games with better shooting mechanics than this game. That doesn't make it the worst either. At best it's to the good side of middle of the road.

    And try not call people "the cancer killing gaming", we're not 4Chan.
    That's the problem though, all you have left is mediocre shooting, they took everything else out of the game completely. Shooting and a silly story.

    The guns aren't any better in BI. The enemy types are more "shootery", you are right about that, but random arenas full of dudes isn't very fun either. It's like Farcry 2 and it's dude camps everywhere.

    "4chan", it's true though.

  7. #367
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    Just finished it and enjoyed it a lot! Played through on '1999' but wish I'd done 'Hard' first so I have something to do now! I can't remember the last time I've wanted to play a game through twice back to back!? We're probably talking more than 10 years ago (earl twenties!). In fact, I can barely remember the last time I actually played a game through to completion before getting bored or distracted by something else? Borderlands maybe?

    You've impressed this cynic Levine and co. I might even buy a season pass!

  8. #368
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    The guns are subjective. You might think they're worse, I thought some of them where better.

    I didn't try a lot of the Vox guns because they did actually seem terrible. The hand cannon and the shotgun though both felt pretty nice to use. The machine gun felt tonnes better in it, but I'll give Bioshock 1 some credit in that it's guns fired like they looked they should have, badly because they were mostly hodge-podged together. I just didn't like hodge-podged guns.
    "Halo is designed to make the player think "I look like that, I am macho sitting in my undies with my xbox""

    Steam ID

  9. #369
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    The hand cannon and the sniper rifle were my main stays. Suit my play style nicely.

    I thought the weapons were of a high standard overall. It was the vigors that were a bit meh to be honest.

    edit to hijack convo: The shooting mechanics got better as the game went on in my opinion. It's not STALKER though.
    Last edited by popej; 10-04-2013 at 10:15 PM.

  10. #370
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    The vigors I'd like to maybe have been forced to use more. I think after you figure out one stupid op combo you just end up using that one vigor endlessly.
    "Halo is designed to make the player think "I look like that, I am macho sitting in my undies with my xbox""

    Steam ID

  11. #371
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Hypernetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus_Phish View Post
    The guns are subjective. You might think they're worse, I thought some of them where better.

    I didn't try a lot of the Vox guns because they did actually seem terrible. The hand cannon and the shotgun though both felt pretty nice to use. The machine gun felt tonnes better in it, but I'll give Bioshock 1 some credit in that it's guns fired like they looked they should have, badly because they were mostly hodge-podged together. I just didn't like hodge-podged guns.
    Yeah, I liked the shotgun too, but that was about it. I used the shit out of the machine gun, but it didn't feel particularly satisfying, it just seemed like the best option for a universal weapon. The VOX weapons were pieces of shit and mostly just weird/useless variants of the regular weapons. The burst gun was just the machine gun with burst fire, but it was horribly inaccurate and worthless. The VOX shotgun was pointless.

    Also another thing about BI that is lacking is the environment. One of the best parts of Bioshock was it's use of environements, you had water and oil from leaking pipes and stuff and then the ice parts. It really made use of the powers and allowed you to do various things. BI had like 3 parts where there was a random puddle or oil slick for no reason and had only one instance where you needed to use a vigor to progress (you had to shock the thing).
    Last edited by Hypernetic; 10-04-2013 at 10:25 PM.

  12. #372
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    Aye, possession is pretty over the top with the reduced cost upgrade. Made the last fight a bit of a walkover to be honest.

    The vigors were a bit "me too!" in BI. They had a place in the Bioshocks and tied in nicely with the storyline. It's not a disaster though.

    It's funny what Hypernetic was saying above to be honest. I've harboured similar opinions about gaming devolving into generic manshoots in the last 6-7 years but BI really clicked with me, so I think his comments are bit misplaced on this occasion (his opinion of course). I guess there comes a point where perfect production, execution and an engaging plot can cover up a games weaknesses and make it great. I was starting to wonder if I'd ever properly enjoy a game again without writing it off as console pap!? BI has done it.

    Maybe I'll learn to stop caring so much and just enjoy new releases a bit more now.

  13. #373
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Hypernetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by popej View Post
    Aye, possession is pretty over the top with the reduced cost upgrade. Made the last fight a bit of a walkover to be honest.

    The vigors were a bit "me too!" in BI. They had a place in the Bioshocks and tied in nicely with the storyline. It's not a disaster though.

    It's funny what Hypernetic was saying above to be honest. I've harboured similar opinions about gaming devolving into generic manshoots in the last 6-7 years but BI really clicked with me, so I think his comments are bit misplaced on this occasion (his opinion of course). I guess there comes a point where perfect production, execution and an engaging plot can cover up a games weaknesses and make it great. I was starting to wonder if I'd ever properly enjoy a game again without writing it off as console pap!? BI has done it.

    Maybe I'll learn to stop caring so much and just enjoy new releases a bit more now.
    Return to sender is brokenly overpowered when upgraded. You are literally unkillable, especially if you have upgraded your magnetic shield and use that magic shirt or whatever that gives you shield regen.

    As for the other part, I didn't HATE the game. It was fun for what it was, but it's not a masterpiece and it's nowhere near a 9/10 or higher. I think it's being vastly overrated by people who aren't looking at it objectively. If I had to give it a score I'd say 7/10. If it wasn't a Bioshock game I'd be less disappointed, I just expected more from Ken Levine and his team, I expected something new, creative, and exciting like how Bioshock 1 felt when it was new. What I got was a dumbed down version of Bioshock 1 in skyland.

  14. #374
    Network Hub DeekyFun's Avatar
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    Yeah, it would have been nicer to have a few more environmental kills (not including the tears). A lot of the time the combat was so frantic I only managed to notice the pools of water once I'd looked around after a fight. Apart from that though, It seemed much more varied than what I found when I played Bioshock, with a few exceptions. I didn't stick to one set of vigors particularly, and though some of them were samey in terms of right-click to set a trap version, there were some more interesting ones, like the charge and pull ones - I think they came pretty late though. I do normally find myself getting into a routine in these sorts of things though, and I just didn't with this game.

    I don't see how it's so hard to understand why someone might like Infinite more than it's predecessor. Regardless, it is incredibly subjective, hence the divisiveness. And really, to say someone is a cancer because they don't agree with one particular viewpoint just smacks of arrogance. There's nothing wrong with not liking the game. Assuming that the only reason others did is because there's some sort of problem with them is pointless.

  15. #375
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus LTK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus_Phish View Post
    Hyper, here was my complaint about the gun play in Bioshock.

    Everything wanted to melee you except for gun turrets who wanted to shoot you. The majority of your enemies would run around at high speed and charge you and club you. Combine that with weapons, which while looked pretty badass when you upgraded them and got to see the extra ammo clip or the steam release valve, didn't make for fun gun play at all. The guns fired clunky, at opponents constantly on the move.
    Patently untrue. Splicers with melee weapons ('Thuggish') were most common at the start of the game, but minutes after you got the revolver you'd encounter splicers who also had revolvers ('Leadhead'), which can later be found carrying Tommy guns. Spider splicers do not simply run at you to bash your head in; they climb, jump, they use hit-and-run tactics and throw hooks at you from high vantage points. Houdini splicers teleport and throw fireballs, and Nitro splicers throw grenades. So when it comes to human enemies, Bioshock has at least as much variety as Infinite.

    Anyway, here's what I missed from Infinite that was present in Bioshock:

    - Tangible and interesting weapon upgrades
    - Carrying 7 persistent weapons
    - Different ammo types
    - Managing limited plasmid slots
    - Upgrading plasmids with a unique and limited resource

    Here's what Infinite has over Bioshock:

    - Skylines
    - Melee attacks that don't require a separate weapon
    - Environmental manipulation through tears
    - More 'minibosses'
    - Elizabeth. Enough said.

    Having hacking and crafting in the game would have been nice, but their absence doesn't severely detract from the experience. It's perfectly fine if Infinite wants to be a game that doesn't have hacking and crafting in it. Same with the health kits and salts; it made more sense to use them on the spot here, given the availability of tears and Elizabeth's help. However, in Infinite they did decide to use limited guns, unlimited vigors, and gun/vigor upgrades, which makes them stand out as different from (and I think worse than) the original Bioshock. Having only two slots and a shit-ton of weapons that each only have one ammo type makes it much harder for the variations to feel creative and interesting, which really makes me miss having multiple ammo types too.

    I couldn't really say much about how the weapons 'feel', though. I suppose I can tell when a game has good weapon design with regard to sound, recoil etcetera, but it doesn't bother me when it's not top-notch. I didn't really have any issue with the gunplay in Bioshock, nor in Infinite, so it really bothers me a lot more that the actual results of firing 20 different weapons is mostly the same in Infinite.

    Edit: I just noticed: The early version of Elizabeth with the huge rack is present in the final scene. Nice touch.
    Last edited by LTK; 10-04-2013 at 11:13 PM.

  16. #376
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sparkasaurusmex's Avatar
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    While Bioshock had an interesting setting, the Steampunk feel of Infinite really appeals to me, and my experience with Infinite has been more satisfying than Bioshock 1.
    But I thought Bioshock 2's harvesting battles were the most fun of all the Bioshock fighting.

  17. #377
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    Don't really get the accusations of this game being "pretentious" (like Kieron, I find that the use of the term implies lack of effort on the part of the person using it). I found it fairly easy to follow. Perhaps people speaking in monologues from the voxophones is where the accusatiosn come from, but really it's a mechanism to get immerse themselves in the fiction, same as how there are books out there that allows people who interested to delve deeper into the universe of Star Wars.

    I could see how some people might find say the Void or Bientot l'ete as "pretentious" (mind you, I actually quite enjoyed these, especially the former), but not this.

  18. #378
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    I wish more games would be pretentious.

  19. #379
    Bioshock 1 was a grotesque husk of gamification elements and suck.
    You could carry 7 weapons while the best one against everything but big daddies was the wrench, ammo types, who needs them when you have the wrench? besides using the anti armor on big daddies. Also most of them were total weak sauce like the shotgun with normal ammo, the revolver or the machine gun, I finished the game on hard on my first playthrough using nothing but the wrench against normal enemies, it was more useful then all the guns and their "upgrade system with meaningful choices" that were between something like do you want 2 more bullets in the gun or deal more damage? really hard to decide? I bet that most of the people chose the same upgrade for each weapon.
    Plasmids were mostly used as keys, they had an uncomfortable selection controls too and it didn't make sense to why you had to choose them separately from weapons and couldn't equip both because you were supposed to use them simultaneously complimenting each other.
    You had 9 health packs all the time and they were almost instant heals, the tubes mini game was there just for the sake of having a fucking hacking mini game.
    Also all the fights were against the fucking red shirts, melee splicers had less hp then the ranged once.
    Big daddies ended up as throw on him all the shit ammo you piled up to that point.
    I wanted my money back after finishing Bioshock.

  20. #380
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Hypernetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hellraiserzlo View Post
    Bioshock 1 was a grotesque husk of gamification elements and suck.
    You could carry 7 weapons while the best one against everything but big daddies was the wrench, ammo types, who needs them when you have the wrench? besides using the anti armor on big daddies. Also most of them were total weak sauce like the shotgun with normal ammo, the revolver or the machine gun, I finished the game on hard on my first playthrough using nothing but the wrench against normal enemies, it was more useful then all the guns and their "upgrade system with meaningful choices" that were between something like do you want 2 more bullets in the gun or deal more damage? really hard to decide? I bet that most of the people chose the same upgrade for each weapon.
    Plasmids were mostly used as keys, they had an uncomfortable selection controls too and it didn't make sense to why you had to choose them separately from weapons and couldn't equip both because you were supposed to use them simultaneously complimenting each other.
    You had 9 health packs all the time and they were almost instant heals, the tubes mini game was there just for the sake of having a fucking hacking mini game.
    Also all the fights were against the fucking red shirts, melee splicers had less hp then the ranged once.
    Big daddies ended up as throw on him all the shit ammo you piled up to that point.
    I wanted my money back after finishing Bioshock.
    Nice try, Jay Wilson.

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