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  1. #1
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    [VS] Monty Giraffe's Flying Scythes

    Hi everybody!

    Something that I've been thinking about quite a bit lately, and I know that others have had the same idea, is to start having more organized flying squads. I.e. having separate comms, working together more as squadrons, train a bit together, exchange tips and tricks, etc. And I'd like to know if there is any interest in doing this semi-organized.

    I'm thinking about taking an hour or two, once per week, using another comm channel and go dedicated air. I would like to take this time to both practice flying (something particular that I want to work out is flying in groups, preferably around three scythes per group) and help the rest of the outfit with precision target air strikes. Maybe even do some scouting duties as well.

    So, who'd be interested in this?

  2. #2
    Network Hub laldy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Hoc View Post
    Hi everybody!

    Something that I've been thinking about quite a bit lately, and I know that others have had the same idea, is to start having more organized flying squads. I.e. having separate comms, working together more as squadrons, train a bit together, exchange tips and tricks, etc. And I'd like to know if there is any interest in doing this semi-organized.

    I'm thinking about taking an hour or two, once per week, using another comm channel and go dedicated air. I would like to take this time to both practice flying (something particular that I want to work out is flying in groups, preferably around three scythes per group) and help the rest of the outfit with precision target air strikes. Maybe even do some scouting duties as well.

    So, who'd be interested in this?
    Bit of history on aircraft formations:
    Battle of Britain, 1940.
    At the start of the battle the British used a 3 ship "Vic" formation as the basic unit of operations. It failed, for several reasons, 2 of which were:
    a. The pilots spent so much time and concentration maintaining formation (especially in turns), that their awareness was drastically affected, even in level flight out of combat.
    b. In combat the formation was too difficult to maintain, and inevitably led to 1 aircraft left on it's own, an easy victim.

    The Brits then switched to the formation the Germans used, the "finger 4", composed of flight leader (FL) & his wingman (FLW)+ an element leader (EL) and his wingman (ELW), flying in loose formation at slightly different altitudes. In combat the FL and EL select targets to attack, their wingmen ensure no-one attacks the FL/EL from behind. A squadron flew as 4x finger 4.

    10th_AF_Four_Finger_Formation.jpg

    finger 4 formation. Note how formation mirrors fingertip positions when looking at hand palm uppermost. FL is furthest forward, FLW on FL right wing, EL on FL left wing, ELW on EL left wing.
    Last edited by laldy; 26-02-2013 at 11:02 AM. Reason: original diagram failure, provided photo

  3. #3
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    Very interesting post, Laldy! And a good topic to bring up Sir Hoc!

    I watched a bit of the Friday Night Ops from last week, where they followed the 666th Devil Dogs on an op. They had an intereisting setup for their air squadron. They had eight men in the air, flying in wingman pairs. And to handle the problem of figuring out who your partner is, they had them in their own platoon, two to a squad, so that there was only ever one other plane in the air of their squad colour, and so that the flight leader would be indicated by the squad leader star next to their nameplate.

    I found that very interesting. If you combine that with a bit of real-world military flight tactics (such as the FL picking targets and the wingman focused on keeping the FL safe) that could work out very nicely. I am no ace pilot, but I could probably be someone's wingman with my A2A missiles, if we want to try this out someday.

    Gonna need some practice, though.

  4. #4
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    I like the scythe, I'm not an ace pilot by any stretch of the imagination but I'd be up for doing some training and improving my skills in this area. I've also got the A2A missiles but I've been considering getting the rocket pods too (was kind of waiting for a sale because I'm cheap!).

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by EsotericReverie View Post
    [...] to handle the problem of figuring out who your partner is, they had them in their own platoon, two to a squad, so that there was only ever one other plane in the air of their squad colour, and so that the flight leader would be indicated by the squad leader star next to their nameplate.

    I found that very interesting. If you combine that with a bit of real-world military flight tactics (such as the FL picking targets and the wingman focused on keeping the FL safe) that could work out very nicely. I am no ace pilot, but I could probably be someone's wingman with my A2A missiles, if we want to try this out someday.
    This does indeed sound like a great idea. I'm far from a hot-shot, but in my A2A scythe there is a huge difference between flying solo and with just one other person. People get very disoriented up in the air and it's easy to nail an enemy that is trying to evade someone else. In short, flying with a wingman could be super effective and this system sounds like a really easy way to accomplish that.

    What do people think of the default flying controls tho? I would be interested in giving this a go, but kind of suck at flying (partially due to having to pitch with the mouse). Maybe I could fly as bait in front of everyone else...?

  6. #6
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    Having a mouse with thumb button, and binding pitch up/down to two of those really helps with tight maneuvers. Otherwise, turn up your mouse sensitivity, make sure to rebind the bloddy stupid E for Eject (much to close to R for Reload). Or consider flying with a gamepad of some sort. I've tried this but couldn't find a set of bindings that felt good, but I understand there are some options in the useroptions.ini file for controller tuning that are not shown in the GUI.

  7. #7
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Cooper's Avatar
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    A tactic that [CONZ] mentioned on their FNO.

    Rather than a waypoint over the objective, the squad leader sets a waypoint over a friendly staging area. Preferably one both near to the fight and with ground AA.

    If you get an enemy ESF on your tail, the pilot under attack requests "return to base" or "RTB" and immediately heads in the direction of the waypoint. People in the vicinty of the waypoint converge and take-down the enemy that is tailing the friendly.

    It sounds like it will work. The problem ESFs have with consistent wingmen and flying in pairs is that a) situational awareness fucking sucks in the cockpit of an ESF and b) dogfights tend to almost always be 1v1 (probably because situational awareness sucks) even if flying in a squad and c) ESFs are all incredibly agile and weapons very inaccurate / slow so that most engagements are at very short-range meaning that it's quite difficult to reliably intervene in a dogfight a friendly is engaged in

    Because of b) and c) it's quite easy to travel significant distances with an enemy on your tail and not be gunned down. Especially if you hug the ground. The CONZ tactic means that instead of engaging 1v1, pilots lure enemies to a dedicated "kill zone". On the face of it it seems to be a very strong idea. We should nick it and try it.
    Quote Originally Posted by CROCONOUGHTKEY
    KING GEORGE IS A FROG
    le BANG~__-MICHEAL FUCK OFF~~__-INTERPOL KNOW YOU WELLBIENG~—
    OFF
    NOT RUSHMORE MOUNTAIN
    KILL WESTON KILL MUST KILLTHEWESTERNINMYHEADDOESN’TEXSIST
    TEXASISDEADINPARISHEWASAMAN..BINGBING.TETTOHEAD.SP ACEOK,TIMEDEADANDSTOPPED1920HOKKAIDO.UNDERSTOODAT1 ONE.
    UNDERSTANDTHISANDFUCKOFFPIRATEBAY.TIMEDOESNTEXSIST FORMEASIMPATEKPHILLPE.
    BANG

  8. #8
    Network Hub laldy's Avatar
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    Agreed on Sit. awareness. Why the fuck don't the ESFs have bubble canopies? You would be hard pressed to find a fighter aircraft with a cockpit with such a restricted field of view in the past 30 years in RL.

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    I am totally down for this!

    I even got my joystick working satisfactorily. (Details in the other 'how 2 fly lol lol lol' thread.)

  10. #10
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    Good idea's, especially the one with a specific platoon with 8 fliers. Estoric, I'm willing to try some wingman technique's tonight if you are up for it.

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    Also, concept for ground attacks -- I find that the best way to hit my target is to go in with a straight dive-bomb style maneuver. Making sure that everyone's on the same target may require that pilots go in effectively single file, nose-to-tail, with each pilot pulling up and out of the way for the next guy in line as fast as possible.

    Anyway. Dive-bombing tactics of some kind would be awesome to figure out.

  12. #12
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    That's really interesting, Laldy. Going in pairs of two also makes it easy to organize when there's more of us.

    All in all, awesome ideas everyone. I especially like having a secure re-staging area (I used to have my personal waypoint on a safe zone when learning how to fly, just so I would know where to escape) and using it as a kill zone if necessary.

    It's sounds like there's a bit of interest. I'm gonna be online tonight. Feel like joining me around 8 CET and try out some of this stuff?

  13. #13
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    I'm putting my son to bed tonight (we take turns, wife and I), but I'd love to try if I can manage. It'll be sometime after 9 CET, most likely.

  14. #14
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    I should be around for this, on the topic of scythe weapons are the rocket pods worth investing in? also does anyone have any opinions on the primary weapons? I've still got the default at the mo...

  15. #15
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    Rockets pods are definitly worth it. It makes you waaaay more versatile (nothing is safe!) and are quite frankly better than A2A rockets if you get close to the enemy. Especially since you can reload while using the other weapon, so you can put a constant barrage of rockets and deadly, deadly lasers on them.

    In regards to primary weapon, I LOVE the Hailstorm Turbo Laser. I'm predominately A2A and that baby can take down an ESF in one to two mags if you hit most of your shots. If reload time is upgraded you're talking about a time span of about 2-3 seconds.
    Last edited by Sir Hoc; 26-02-2013 at 03:51 PM.

  16. #16
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    I'm not sure when my evening will start, but I will definitely make an effort to check stuff out tonight, then!

  17. #17
    It'd be nice to get a flying squad up. Maybe a platoon split into different roles, like say, one for air superiority, one for Joint strike fighter loadouts, and one for Liberators and their escorts. It's a shame there's no real training system in. A VR suite where you could dogfight with friendlies would be interesting. I'm not great with the scythe, but i think half of that is my framerate dropping dramatically when i get in an air vehicle. I can just about handle Galaxy/Liberator piloting, but my framerate lets me down when it comes to air to air roles. I'm happy enough piloting for Galdrops or Lib gunners, though.

  18. #18
    Yep, count me in! I'm usually in my Scythe whenever it's off cooldown. I'm good at the whole flying bit, not so much with the air to air combat side of it though. :/

  19. #19
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    I have some experience in different games flying with pads, a twin sticks and flight sticks in Planetside 1 (2 runs like crap for me). A twin stick is elegant and effortless for a slower to turn vehicle like a lodestrar (flying skip) or a galaxy but it always felt lacking in anything with a nose gun.
    I'm failing to writing a blog, specifically about playing games the wrong way
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cooper View Post
    A tactic that [CONZ] mentioned on their FNO.

    Rather than a waypoint over the objective, the squad leader sets a waypoint over a friendly staging area. Preferably one both near to the fight and with ground AA.
    That's pretty much what I was thinking too. If you get people who are waiting for their cooldowns to man AA guns or pull bursters at the staging area while they wait, it gets even more effective.

    I love the idea of a flying squad with real tactics, we have to try this sometime.

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