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  1. #61
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frengler View Post
    ... from a comms perspective, it's definitely more efficient (speaking as a former radio guy in the army).
    Hehe, yeah, it actually works, as does splitting the leading of squads from talking on the radio, for most situations. Again, like real-life armies do. (speaking as a former military staff group leader in the army, as it happens )

  2. #62
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    I'm not going to post at length on this, as I think most things have already been said. However, people need to realise that if something is agreed during one of the meetings, this is as democratic as its going to get and that agreement HAS to be followed through for the meeting to have any meaning at all. This applies equally to everybody, including BasicPaul and Ridebird.

    BasicPaul - I understand your view, but an approach was democratically agreed and therefore is what the outfit is going to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by RIDEBIRD View Post

    And by the way - special giraffes is all well and good, but I would say a very large majority has shifted to prefering split comms. If people do not want to split the special giraffes should of course be utilized. I might try to lead a spec ops force again some time soon as well, but then I need to not be PL 24/7.

    I think we have largely got over the bump of being afraid of proposing squad play though and that the ad hoc thing works, it's just that more people need to bring it up.
    At the meeting we agreed to push the use of the Special Giraffes channel. This was after extensive discussion, with points put across by those on all sides of the argument. You cannot then just come out of the meeting and basically say people should ignore this and continue what they were doing before. If that is the case then it completely invalidates the decision making process that took place during the meeting. The use of the Special Giraffes channel is what was agreed to try to help solve this problem, so we MUST push for it to be used in preference to the full splitting of comms, and it is particularly important that those who lead on evenings when this might be an issue get behind it and make sure what was agreed is done.

  3. #63
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Cooper's Avatar
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    Using "special giraffes" is splitting comms.

    Unless people are using "spliiting comms" to refer to using squad play. In which case I've misunderstood what people are talking about when they say split comms and I have bigger problems with it.

    Some people want smaller channels. Fine. The decision was that those who want smaller channels can split themselves off and use the "special giraffes" channel.

    If "split comms" means everyone uses squad comms. Then, no. That's not on. Because that forces everyone to do the same thing. It's just as bad as forcing those who want smaller channels to stay in larger channels.

    "Split comms" should mean that those who want smaller channels voluntarily move themselves to another channel. This gives the preferred environment for everyone. "Special giraffes" was setup precisely to accommodate this. It's primarily what it's there for.
    Quote Originally Posted by CROCONOUGHTKEY
    KING GEORGE IS A FROG
    le BANG~__-MICHEAL FUCK OFF~~__-INTERPOL KNOW YOU WELLBIENG~—
    OFF
    NOT RUSHMORE MOUNTAIN
    KILL WESTON KILL MUST KILLTHEWESTERNINMYHEADDOESN’TEXSIST
    TEXASISDEADINPARISHEWASAMAN..BINGBING.TETTOHEAD.SP ACEOK,TIMEDEADANDSTOPPED1920HOKKAIDO.UNDERSTOODAT1 ONE.
    UNDERSTANDTHISANDFUCKOFFPIRATEBAY.TIMEDOESNTEXSIST FORMEASIMPATEKPHILLPE.
    BANG

  4. #64
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus RIDEBIRD's Avatar
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    Yes, but I did not agree during the meeting and I don't understand why it was pushed so heavily when splitting comms have worked totally fine (Cooper has been away during this time however). I was not very willing to talk about this at length since it would just be the same rehash we again have seen in this thread, and I am extremely tired of making my point. Also, I did not see it as an extensive discussion - rather the longer discussion was about the new comms system.

    If some people say no to splitting, then special giraffes is the logical thing to go to. Why should it be used in preference if most people, as you put it, democratically agreed upon the existing approach? Meaning, if loud and most agree > split, if not, stay. If most people want to keep it big, special giraffes is perfect for that and all are happy. If most want to split, why not?
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  5. #65
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus RIDEBIRD's Avatar
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    Okay, I guess it's back to square one then. We have been using the squad play channel and that is what we have meant with splitting comms. We have done this for a few weeks now and it has worked totally fine. I have not seen anyone quit over this or that has openly had any issue with it. Rather, the response to such suggestions post our discussion have been positive.

    If we are again not allowed to suggest squad play during any day that is not monday and wednesday, the whole outfit purpose discussion and all of that was pointless and we are again at the start of this.
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  6. #66
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Cooper's Avatar
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    Ok, so there seems to have been some confusion.

    I've updated Platoon 2 in Mumble to offer a "halfway house" where we use dual squad comms. So up to 24 people in a channel.

    This was something I tried instigating months ago. It seems, to me, the better option of a simple choice between everyone in one channel and everyone in squad play channels.

    Dual based squad comms should be default on "non event" nights. So Fri, Sat & Sun.


    I realise this deviates from what was agreed in the meeting. It's there to offer greater options of how we play so it's not a simple "squad play or not" dichotomy. This was the intention of special giraffes, to provide a "halfway" between clusterfuck and squad based. But that's not been used very much, so hopefully we can push this alternative and work out what's more widely preferred.

    In general: ask about what people prefer in comms. let's turn this into an ongoing discussion that includes all members, not just those who use to forums...
    Quote Originally Posted by CROCONOUGHTKEY
    KING GEORGE IS A FROG
    le BANG~__-MICHEAL FUCK OFF~~__-INTERPOL KNOW YOU WELLBIENG~—
    OFF
    NOT RUSHMORE MOUNTAIN
    KILL WESTON KILL MUST KILLTHEWESTERNINMYHEADDOESN’TEXSIST
    TEXASISDEADINPARISHEWASAMAN..BINGBING.TETTOHEAD.SP ACEOK,TIMEDEADANDSTOPPED1920HOKKAIDO.UNDERSTOODAT1 ONE.
    UNDERSTANDTHISANDFUCKOFFPIRATEBAY.TIMEDOESNTEXSIST FORMEASIMPATEKPHILLPE.
    BANG

  7. #67
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus RIDEBIRD's Avatar
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    Yes, me and Cooper discussed it on Steam and came to the conclusion that the halfway system is probably the best thing on basically all nights. It's very rare we have a full 48 on non-event nights, and if we do we can consider going full squad comms.

    To be ultra clear yet again - this does not effect mondays or wednesdays in any way. They will continue to be all in one and such (unless people really want something more structured on wednesdays).

    What I dislike about special giraffes is that every time we have done it it's either been me stealing away 11 vets from the platoon or the flyboys sort of just hanging out on their own in a squad sort of supporting the platoon. It seems more like special giraffes have been the special club for us that can't handle big groups and that there has been very little interplay between the platoon and the specials. I feel that in those times disconnection from PL has been quite huge and I don't like that much.
    Last edited by RIDEBIRD; 04-04-2013 at 02:52 PM.
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  8. #68
    Lesser Hivemind Node BasicPauly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cooper View Post
    Ok, so there seems to have been some confusion.

    I've updated Platoon 2 in Mumble to offer a "halfway house" where we use dual squad comms. So up to 24 people in a channel.

    This was something I tried instigating months ago. It seems, to me, the better option of a simple choice between everyone in one channel and everyone in squad play channels.

    Dual based squad comms should be default on "non event" nights. So Fri, Sat & Sun.


    I realise this deviates from what was agreed in the meeting. It's there to offer greater options of how we play so it's not a simple "squad play or not" dichotomy. This was the intention of special giraffes, to provide a "halfway" between clusterfuck and squad based. But that's not been used very much, so hopefully we can push this alternative and work out what's more widely preferred.

    In general: ask about what people prefer in comms. let's turn this into an ongoing discussion that includes all members, not just those who use to forums...
    This isnt just a reply to Cooper, but to those that replied to myself also (simply do not want to uber quote):

    This sounds find, because it just sounds like the system we had before where we decide ad hoc, but with a little tweaking..

    Protorp and Eso: I realise that I keep generalising, and it sounds like I think "split comms = squad play", but I never mean this, im just bad at generalising.... What I meant, is that BOTH are an issue.. on the one hand I dont want us to become all about strategic playstyle, and on the other hand I dont want us to ALWAYs split into smaller comm channels (as per a "strategic" night).

    The post of agenda from the meeting phrased it as if you guys had somehow decided that we were splitting up the comms into small groups on every night regardless what others wanted, which is what I was mainly complaining about.. It seems that this isnt what was meant? In that case, ad hoc/split when necessary is fine, and ive never had an issue with that, but I dont want this "split every night" policy to mean we literally do have smaller comms every night because, for reasons that I have explained, I often enjoy that clusterfuck chat environment whilst playing.. its a different play style for a game that can get monotonous.

    Sorry for confusion, but please dont get pissy with me because you think I dont know about the discussion :P. I do know that we keep discussing these issues, but thats because we have the same issues... I did try to say that I think the issue is that none of us want to accept one over the other, and that we need to accept that it will always be a mix.

  9. #69
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Cooper's Avatar
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    Next Meeting Wednesday (tomorrow) night at 8pm BST (UTC+1)

    Suggestions for agenda are welcomed, but I would like to keep this short.

    I will create a temporary channel in Mumble for the meeting. Anyone who wants to join is welcome.
    Quote Originally Posted by CROCONOUGHTKEY
    KING GEORGE IS A FROG
    le BANG~__-MICHEAL FUCK OFF~~__-INTERPOL KNOW YOU WELLBIENG~—
    OFF
    NOT RUSHMORE MOUNTAIN
    KILL WESTON KILL MUST KILLTHEWESTERNINMYHEADDOESN’TEXSIST
    TEXASISDEADINPARISHEWASAMAN..BINGBING.TETTOHEAD.SP ACEOK,TIMEDEADANDSTOPPED1920HOKKAIDO.UNDERSTOODAT1 ONE.
    UNDERSTANDTHISANDFUCKOFFPIRATEBAY.TIMEDOESNTEXSIST FORMEASIMPATEKPHILLPE.
    BANG

  10. #70
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    I won't be making this meeting, but I'm sure the rest of you will manage. I haven't been the most talkative on the previous meetings anyway.
    Steam: EsotericReverie | Origin: EsotericReverie | Planetside 2: EsotericReverie | Battle.net: Esoteric#2168

  11. #71
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    Similarly - I almost certainly won't be able to attend either.

  12. #72
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus RIDEBIRD's Avatar
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    MEETING MINUTES OR WHATEVER THAT THING WAS CALLED
    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...CvJ8XvLJI/edit
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  13. #73
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    Listened in on a little bit, recorded the rest to listen to at a later time. What I heard sounded like good constructive discussion!

  14. #74
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus MrEclectic's Avatar
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    Comics Sans! Argh!

  15. #75
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Cooper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrEclectic View Post
    Comics Sans! Argh!
    I get a feeling that document is Ride's attempt to produce the most cheap and ugly document he could. In which case, good work!
    Quote Originally Posted by CROCONOUGHTKEY
    KING GEORGE IS A FROG
    le BANG~__-MICHEAL FUCK OFF~~__-INTERPOL KNOW YOU WELLBIENG~—
    OFF
    NOT RUSHMORE MOUNTAIN
    KILL WESTON KILL MUST KILLTHEWESTERNINMYHEADDOESN’TEXSIST
    TEXASISDEADINPARISHEWASAMAN..BINGBING.TETTOHEAD.SP ACEOK,TIMEDEADANDSTOPPED1920HOKKAIDO.UNDERSTOODAT1 ONE.
    UNDERSTANDTHISANDFUCKOFFPIRATEBAY.TIMEDOESNTEXSIST FORMEASIMPATEKPHILLPE.
    BANG

  16. #76
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus RIDEBIRD's Avatar
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    I zoned out for a bit and started making stuff multi colored.
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  17. #77
    Lesser Hivemind Node BasicPauly's Avatar
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    I missed a load of this, and frankly im a little confused..

    Are there a bunch of new setups for mumble for different things?

    Im pretty out of the loop and still have a bunch of channels as per the old system?

    I see some overly complicated posts about how some tacgir thing works, but frankly I have no idea whats going on :P.

    I assume that there is going to be some new updated post somewhere with a guide as to setting up everything.. It seems there are a lot of different options at the moment, and its all experiments, so what the hell is going on?
    Last edited by BasicPauly; 19-04-2013 at 02:15 AM.

  18. #78
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    Experiments have been concluded on a new system for comms , and with a few alterations, it should become our new standard. This system gives us two things: easier setup (one set of keybinds that never need to change, even if we add new channels or move things around), and the ability for SLs to coordinate without involving the whole chain of command. my very long intro post about this has a short version that explains all this.

    TACGIR is a means players who want tactical squad-play to get that on any day of the week. Ridebird's OP on TACGIR is excellently brief and informative. Read it. If it doesn't make sense, read it again. It's hard to convey these kinds of ideas jn writing, and I honestly don't think I could do it any better than that. The posts are not "overly complicated". It is a complicated subject, being presented by predominantly non-native English speakers, who want to make sure that people get the right idea and are not offended. Cut us some slack here, will you?

    Sorry for being a bit rough around the edges, it's that kind of day. Anyway, all of the options for comms have been up for discussion, and one system was trialled yesterday. With a few minor alterations, that is probably going to be the way forward. Players will only need to bother with this has if they intend to lead squads platoons. Posts will be made with screenshots clarifying, to whatever level of detail people may need, exactly what needs to be done, etc.

  19. #79
    Network Hub Orius's Avatar
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    It's really all rather simple once you look at it and figure out that the new keybinds are to be tied to root->current. The rest of the system is largely common sense and following correct protocol when using them.

  20. #80
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus EsotericReverie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    It's really all rather simple once you look at it and figure out that the new keybinds are to be tied to root->current. The rest of the system is largely common sense and following correct protocol when using them.
    True, although the posts presenting the info might not be all too clear on the point.

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