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  1. #1
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Berzee's Avatar
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    Let's Crowd-Design an RPS Flash Game!



    Play latest version here. Skip this post and read the first reply for the actual OP; this section is for voting and stuff.


    Updated October 6th, 2013

    A new version emerges: HERE! It contains an animated robot wot can shoot you with lazers (if you stand where they want to walk) and will kill you for dropping into its personal space.
    Also, excitingly, it is now possible to end a turn early as long as all of the heroes are standing on level ground. Also, allow me to reiterate: lazers.

    To Ponder: Aside from usability improvements (mouse-scrolling, etc) I have identified one main thing to think about. After adding instant death-by-robot, it occurs to me that it creates a very puzzle-gamey feeling. The example level becomes about finding a perfect set of moves to get everyone past the robot without getting lasergunned, and beating the level feels like "solving" it. If we wanted a more "tactics RPG" feeling we could start to think about things like hitpoints and randomness -- either way is acceptable, they are just interesting paths wot lie before us!

    Coming up next:

    • ??? (still attempting to return to the official swing of things here =P)



    THE HISTORICAL TIMELINE (links go to the relevant announcement in this thread)
    - Mar. 06, 2013 It Began As A Curious Notion
    - Mar. 09, 2013 Protagonist: A ROCK, A PAPER, AND A SHOTGUN.
    - Mar. 11, 2013 Perspective: SIDESCROLLER
    - Mar. 14, 2013 Time System: TURN-BASED (incidentally, HEXAGONS were introduced!)
    - Mar. 21, 2013 Working Title: Wot I Think: The Game
    - Mar. 26, 2013 Squad, Solo, or Free For All: An Elite Squad!
    - Mar. 28, 2013 An Action/Interaction: (so many ideas, we broke up the results by character)
    - Apr. 03, 2013 Rock's Special Power: Blocks enemies, resists damage, falls on stuff.
    - Apr. 09, 2013 Paper's Special Power: Turns into a Paper Glider-plane.
    - Apr. 15, 2013 Shotgun's Special Power: Talk To The Monsters
    - May 09, 2013 First Enemy: French Steampunk Robot
    - May 15, 2013 Victory Condition: Reach The Exit (for now)
    - June 06, 2013 Assorted Enhancements: Moving Enemies/Exit Doors/Conversations
    - Oct. 06, 2013 Assorted Enhancements: Enemy Animation & Attack <-- we are here
    Last edited by Berzee; 07-10-2013 at 04:20 AM.
    Support for my all-pepperjack-cheese food bank charity drive has been lukewarm at best.

  2. #2
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Berzee's Avatar
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    Here Lies The Original Post:

    Here's a fun idea! I just finished up a rather exhausting undertaking, so now I'm looking for a whimsical and lazy side project. =P I have decided to ask my Internet Friends if they would like to experience the joys of collaborative, iterative game design together! Like all things committee-powered, it will probably be soulless and unfocused, but so is a photograph of a lightning-fast robot minotaur, so I don't see any problems there.

    This is a way for RPS chums to recklessly throw game ideas into the aether and watch some of them materialize, and for me to make a fine software entertainment product without having to think of ideas myself. ^_^ Old versions of the game will be archived so posterity can trace the pathways of our collective brilliance.

    I envision a process like this -- we'll choose a Piece of Game to vote about (by consensus or my capriciousness), and I'll put it in the top post. Then everyone can vote on that Piece of Game, and I (or potentially another volunteer, depending) will implement it over the next few days if it's something that needs to be implemented, like a jump button. Repeat indefinitely!

    I just have a few guiding principles for this endeavor.

    • Simplicity. Each Piece of Game that requires work should be trivially small, so that we can all feel involved in the details of the design and enjoy seeing it take shape. And so updates can happen regularly without ruining my life.
    • Mechanics. Whenever possible, let's focus on singular, well-defined game mechanics. I'd rather we debate "Jump Button? Y/N" than "Making a Platformer? Y/N".
    • Fluidity. Let's hold things lightly and not get married to any concept during the process, since it might be cool to try different things along the way. I'll try to keep the code as flexible as I can to accomodate this.


    That's it! Keep checking the top post for updates and participate whene'er you like by nominating and voting for next changes. Or if you think, "Berzee this is madness, you are tampering with forces beyond your mortal ken" then tell me now. =P My philosophy here is kind of the same as the Doublefine Kickstarter Adventure -- even if it's a disaster, I hope that it will be an entertaining one.


    Technical notes, disclaimers, random asides:

    I will be making this game in Flash (ActionScript3) using the Flixel library and the FlashDevelop IDE. As I mentioned, this is a Lazy Scheme, so I might end up using Assemblee graphics and Bfxr sounds at first instead of painstakingly trying to be an Artist. ;) If anyone wants to contribute fabulous game assets to replace my lame ones, feel free! (My current plan is to make the whole thing open-source when we're finished or perhaps earlier, so any donated content would ideally be public domain or attribution-licensed).

    To assure you that I exceed the minimum level of skill required to mock up goofy game experiments, see the Kongregate link in my signature. (The aforementioned exhausting project will be there soon, but is still going through post-production stuff right now =).

    What else? No zombies >_< (MAYBE properly necromantic zombies). Also, I retain veto power over some things that mightn't be Appropriate For All(ish) Ages -- swears, gore, underwear-armor...Aaaand finally, about monies: if our game turns out awesome, I might put it on Kongregate so more people can see it. Kongregate incidentally shares ad-money. My experience suggests that we would be lucky to make enough money to buy the lettuce off a cheeseburger, but just to be thorough I will here decree that any profits from such an action will be mine and mine alone, moohaha. (If a meteorite strikes and this game goes viral and makes objectively significant monies, I'll attempt to find something fair to do with it, or maybe buy a giant Fuf Chair for the RPS staff...but I doubt we'll have that kind of problem ;).
    Last edited by Berzee; 07-03-2013 at 04:39 AM.
    Support for my all-pepperjack-cheese food bank charity drive has been lukewarm at best.

  3. #3
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Berzee's Avatar
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    Right-o! So with all of that said -- what do you think of my random scheme?

    If you think it sounds enjoyable, express your enthusiasm by nominating candidates for the very first Issue At Hand! Which is...

    What shall our protagonist be? (i.e. a man, a car, a baby's first words...)

    (I recommend nominating candidates that are active and concrete, because the fun tends to come a lot sooner in development when you can "move your guy around" than when you are an abstract offscreen commander -- but it's entirely up to you! I am your servant in these matters).

    Of course there are plenty of jumping-off points to start making a game. Picking a main character is just one of them, but I think it will be useful in this experiment because it's a nice concentrated question.... I'm going to refrain from nominating anything myself unless the need is dire. =P
    Last edited by Berzee; 07-03-2013 at 04:45 AM.
    Support for my all-pepperjack-cheese food bank charity drive has been lukewarm at best.

  4. #4
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    Let's keep it simple. Human.

    Bipedals offer the simplest and most recognisable avatars. Dress him/her up in primary colours as again, its easier and faster to identify the simpler its kept. Mario is red and blue for a reason. :)

  5. #5
    Lesser Hivemind Node Wheelz's Avatar
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    I like this idea, though I suspect things will get fairly complex fairly quickly.

    As for a main character suggestion, I think it should be somthing relative to the RPS forums. Like An Endless Bear or The Definition of an RPG, by which I mean the actual character is a series of words.

  6. #6
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus soldant's Avatar
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    Continuing with Wheelz's theme, I think the main character should be Wizardry, on a quest to enforce the definition of an RPG.
    Nalano's Law - As an online gaming discussion regarding restrictions grows longer, the probability of a post likening the topic to the Democratic People's Republic of Korea approaches one.
    Soldant's Law - A person will happily suspend their moral values if they can express moral outrage by doing so.

  7. #7
    Lesser Hivemind Node
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    Let's not get meta before the game mechanics are decided please?

  8. #8
    Lesser Hivemind Node Feldspar's Avatar
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    I think the main character should be armoured (if not a tank), to represent the iron-hard convictions forumites have in the inherent just rightness of their opinions.

  9. #9
    Lesser Hivemind Node ado's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soldant View Post
    Continuing with Wheelz's theme, I think the main character should be Wizardry, on a quest to enforce the definition of an RPG.
    This has to be it, right? Or...

    A lawyer game in the vein of Phoenix Wright; only with Nalano as it's protagonist. Fighting the good fight against the opinions of others - no matter if right or wrong, he shall prevail.


    - Objection! Your argument is invalid because I say so! Also, you're an asshat!

    /huge superimposed letters slap on the screen with booming sound

    CASE CLOSED!

    /fade out


    It would be a pretty easy game to play I must admit, but it would be fun. XD
    steam

    http://dailycelluloid.blogspot.com/- where I write about movies.

  10. #10
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Lambchops's Avatar
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    I think the character should be a top hat

    Clearly I'm taking the Usual Suspects approach to ideas here!

  11. #11
    Lesser Hivemind Node Velko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
    I think the character should be a top hat

    Clearly I'm taking the Usual Suspects approach to ideas here!
    Seconded! A top hat wearing a monocle!

  12. #12
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus b0rsuk's Avatar
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    This is design by committee taken to the extreme. It can't work. This article explains why:

    Ignoring the wisdom of crowds
    http://blog.asmartbear.com/ignoring-...of-crowds.html

    In a nutshell, wisdom of crowds only works for establishing facts or consensus. It doesn't work for design, because it ends up producing things that everyone hates the least (and that excite no one).

    Not in the article - wisdom of crowds done right can be seen on last.fm, the social music site. While I still used it, my goal was to find as many enjoyable bands as possible. Last.fm recommendation system doesn't work by calculating a score depending on the absolute number of people that like a band. For example The Beatles and Red Hot Chilli Peppers were extremely common in people's playlists, and any music group ended up having these 2 at the top. Even if it was one of the True Metal groups, a jazz group, or a classical music group. Yet these 2 bands were nowhere to be found in my recommendations. Why ? Because individual recommendation system doesn't work that way. If I like Dancing Madly Backwards by Captain Beyond, the system recommends me tracks liked by people who also like Dancing Madly Backwards.

    Wisdom of crowds can be either an average of everyone's opinion, or something personalized like above.
    pass

  13. #13
    Lesser Hivemind Node Velko's Avatar
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    Yes, clearly this is not a design method fit for commercial purposes and as such it should be abandoned. There is absolutely no fun to be had.

  14. #14
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Lambchops's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by b0rsuk View Post
    This is design by committee taken to the extreme. It can't work. This article explains why:

    Ignoring the wisdom of crowds
    http://blog.asmartbear.com/ignoring-...of-crowds.html

    In a nutshell, wisdom of crowds only works for establishing facts or consensus. It doesn't work for design, because it ends up producing things that everyone hates the least (and that excite no one).
    From the OP

    Like all things committee-powered, it will probably be soulless and unfocused, but so is a photograph of a lightning-fast robot minotaur, so I don't see any problems there.
    He knows it, you know it, we know it but the fun is in the process not the product!

  15. #15
    Network Hub Dead Herald's Avatar
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    I think we should determine what kind of game we're making before concentrating on the aesthetics, no?

  16. #16
    Activated Node Murmurandus's Avatar
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    Given the nature of the request I'd shoot for 'Lenin the Game'... :ja:

  17. #17
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Tikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velko View Post
    Seconded! A top hat wearing a monocle!
    I support this idea.

  18. #18
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus mickygor's Avatar
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    3 protagonists, a rock, a paper (sheet or news), and a shotgun. They probably have a love triangle going on but at the end of the day, they can put aside their differences when faced with adversity.
    Itsbastiat, Dawngate
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    Therin Katta, FFXIV, Cerberus

  19. #19
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus
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    Quote Originally Posted by soldant View Post
    Continuing with Wheelz's theme, I think the main character should be Wizardry, on a quest to enforce the definition of an RPG.
    I wholeheartedly second this measure.

  20. #20
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Berzee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by b0rsuk
    This is design by committee taken to the extreme. It can't work. This article explains why:
    In my heart I secretly reply, "These are valid concerns, and I will read this article in an attempt to avoid common pitfalls as best we can." But on the Internet I reply, "Yeah??? Maybe the wisdom of the crowd works if you have The Gamiest Crowd Of Distinguished Gentlefolk!"

    In any case, this thread has provided enough chuckles to me so far that I consider it a success no matter what happens. ^__^ But I think it will still be fun to see how it goes.

    Thanks for all the nominations so far! They are a good blend of reasonable and preposterous. ;)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dead Herald
    I think we should determine what kind of game we're making before concentrating on the aesthetics, no?
    I agree, but I started with this voting topic for two reasons:
    1) It's colorful and fun and hopefully less prone to genuine arguments than a competition between genres.
    2) If you start by considering the character, its limitations and abilities can often inform the gameplay in surprising ways and end up being more than an aesthetic choice. I wanted to see whether or not that happens here.
    3) Maybe you were talking about something else entirely and not the protagonist-vote, in which case, nevermind. =p

    Ultimately, after my four initial issues of infinite tyranny, the voting agenda will also be entirely flexible and up for informal discussion, so you may soon get your wish!

    (I intend each round of nominations and voting should last somewhere between 24-48 hours, so I may open voting tonight but we'll see how the thread is going then -- stay tuned, lads and lasses)
    Last edited by Berzee; 07-03-2013 at 12:58 PM.
    Support for my all-pepperjack-cheese food bank charity drive has been lukewarm at best.

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