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  1. #1
    Activated Node plat0nic's Avatar
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    Elder Scrolls NDA lifed

    http://elderscrollsonline.com/en/new...nda-has-lifted

    There we go, NDA is lifted. Discuss and or rant away. My biggest concern is that cyrodil pvp is going to turn into snoozefest tab targetting castle doors and with such a bland UI the personalization of PvP will be lost.
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  2. #2
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Craps-given-o-meter is bottoming out. Generic MMO has best selection of in game books in any MMO ever! That's nice I guess, but I bet the rude ones are taken out for the teen rating.
    I'm failing to writing a blog, specifically about playing games the wrong way
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  3. #3
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    We can talk about how it's Yet Another Generic MMO, and it is, but I actually think the main reason ESO will fail is because the combat is sluggish and tedious. The core, fundamental gameplay mechanic is actually worse than any mediocre WoW knockoff I've played. And I've spent some time with obscure garbage like Alganon.

    It sort of tries to be everything: a little bit of dodging attacks like in Guild Wars 2, a little bit of Oblivion/Skyrim (or Darkfall) weapon swinging, and a large chunk of typical MMO. None of the components work well or feel satisfying.
    Last edited by Nasarius; 19-02-2014 at 01:42 AM.

  4. #4
    Lesser Hivemind Node Spacewalk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heliocentric View Post
    Craps-given-o-meter is bottoming out. Generic MMO has best selection of in game books in any MMO ever! That's nice I guess, but I bet the rude ones are taken out for the teen rating.
    If it doesn't have The Lusty Argonian Maid then it's not a true Elder Scrolls game.

  5. #5
    Network Hub Granath's Avatar
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    It's like Skyrim with a less interesting world, worse NPCs and all the normal MMO issues.

  6. #6
    Lesser Hivemind Node Spacewalk's Avatar
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    *obvious snide comment*

  7. #7
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus somini's Avatar
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    Steam(shots), Imgur, Flickr, Bak'laag, why do you forsake me?

  8. #8
    Activated Node plat0nic's Avatar
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    I dunno, I'm going to give it a chance. I played a beta and really enjoyed my time in it. It's not a WoW knock-off in that it has it's own franchise with deep history. I play MMORPG's 75% for end game PvP though and I'm not seeing keep smashing in zergs being able to holy my interested for more than a couple weeks but I guess we'll find out. Wildstar just looks so cartoony, i really hope I find at least a couple months out of ESO. The look and feel of ESO was right up my alley.
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  9. #9
    Network Hub grasskit's Avatar
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    schadenfreude when this crashes and burns is gonna be glorious

  10. #10
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    and it is, but I actually think the main reason ESO will fail is because the combat is sluggish and tedious
    Nothing new for TES fan.

  11. #11
    Network Hub Squirly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by somini View Post
    We needed to find someone who liked the game, said Firor, Its too hard to read what people have written about the game on the internet. We figured that the most hardcore dedicated fans are actually keeping quiet because they dont want to get in trouble with the NDA. This is why we had to lift it. It was way too depressing in the office before.
    Wow. He actually said that out loud. Or am I missing something and this website is the gaming equivalent of The Onion?

  12. #12
    Network Hub Squirly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squirly View Post
    Wow. He actually said that out loud. Or am I missing something and this website is the gaming equivalent of The Onion?
    Can't edit my post, but yes, it is the equivalent of The Onion. That was fun.

  13. #13
    Lesser Hivemind Node karaquazian's Avatar
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    on the contrary, I think its one of the few MMOs that has a chance of actually growing.

    The "tutorial" part of the game is really bloody awful, the whole cold harbour bit is tedious, the starter island is very wow like and led by the nose from quest to quest. They've kind of shot themselves in the foot giving this inaccurate first impression of the game, but I get why they did it, they are expecting a lot of players who've never played a MMO before so they've slapped on what is essentially a 6-8 hour tutorial.

    Once you get about 6 hours in the game opens up, you can then just wander off the beaten track and encounter open world dungeons, hidden areas etc..

    Its become a game that all the hipsters have jumped on a hate wagon on for some reason, possibly under some mistaken beliefs that a) It is a TES skinned WOW, without having actually tried the game. b) that skyrim is a "sandbox". c) that they are working on this instead of TES 6 when they aren't its a separate studio, bethseda proper are currently working on Fallout 4 and still plan to make TES 6 after that.

    This site is a great review site for most games, but they are poor at reviewing MMOs, they didn't immediately call SWTOR for the utter snorefest generic crap it was, they are currently being much nicer to Wildstar than ESO, and make no mistake Wildstar is a massive wow clone.

    so my impressions.

    PVE pre level 8 or so - 3/10

    PVE after that - 7/10 - open dungeons, dark anchors, the hidden crafting stations, quest givers wandering about in the hills etc.. make it much more exploration based than your wow standard type mmos. Also theres no wow style quest hubbing.

    crafting - 8/10 - crafted gear is important in the game, and crafting is moderately complex. Its not as strong as something like Star wars Galaxies, but its a huge step up from something like wow or GW2. crafting in this game also lets you upgrade and change the appearance of items.

    PVP - 9/10 - It's really good. ESO will be one of the PVP mmos. If you think of everything GW2 did wrong when trying to copy Dark age of Camelot / Planetside, ESO makes all those decisions right. The Cyrodill map is huge, you could easily place all 4 WvW maps from GW2 inside it with room to spare, you could fit one of the planetside 2 continents in it with room to spare also. It performs way better than GW2, though not as good as planetside 2 since they did all them updates. The incentives are to HOLD keeps not TAKE them, there is little point in keep trading or running an endless "circle zerg". There is no ridiculous downed state, in fact resurrecting players in ESO is costly and you can't spawn anywhere that is currently under attack, unless you have a forward camp (like a planetside sunderer) Its going to take you 10 minutes + to get back in the big fights. If you've played DAOC or Shadowbane, this is the closest game to them PVP wise in a long long time. There are also lots of things off the beaten track outside the main keep lattice, such as open dungeons, dark anchors, sky shards, way shrines etc.. which support those who prefer a small group gank style of PVP (or the thrill of doing PVE with some danger)

    leveling system - 9/10 - you have several skill lines you level independently by using the skills within them and usually through a secondary means - e.g. the mages guild skill line also advances by discovering lore books. Providing the skill line is sufficiently used, you can then choose to spend skill points in any line (including crafting lines), which works like Perks in Skyrim. There's a lot of scope for expanding the game horizontally by adding new skill lines, like the thieves guild which is coming "soon".

    Combat - 7/10 - I played a dual wielding orc, the combat felt a bit floaty, though no more than other betas i played, like GW2. I also played a khajit with a 2 handed sword - the combat felt much more physical. I'm guessing they are still working on animations, some races definitely feel better than others. - Bows though, bows feel all wrong no matter what. Bows are the only weapon type where it feels weaker than skyrim combat wise. The combat grows on you once you have enough skills to fill your bar (around level 8 or so), and grows more at 15 when you can weapon swap. The combat really shines in PVP, where there are many decisions to be made about whether to interrupt / dodge or take the hit, whether to blow all your magika or stamina on a big attack or keep some back to defend yourself from the counter etc.. Also all the ultimates get most of their real power when you can get a team mate to channel it for you.

    UI - 6/10 - there's some good stuff like the lack of clutter, but anyone whos played beta will know just how bloody annoying that Q button with the radial menu to access your potions and food is. Also its the same old crappy skyrim backpack and the crafting interfaces are a bit clunky. The game could also use some sort of open group / raid interface in the vein of warhammer, rift or planetside 2.

    Economy - n/a - well hard to tell in a beta, so no score, but they've made some interesting design choices here. There is no global auction house in the game. There are 2 ways to trade - 1) in guild, all guilds have their own internal auction house. 2) at a guild owned keep in cyrodill, guilds can set up stores in keeps they claimed, only 1 keep per guild. I have a feeling this may slow down the gold farmers, but perhaps not.

    graphics - 8/10, good for a mmo, looks better than an unmodded skyrim

    audio - 8/10, really nice music and ambient sounds, some of the voice work is a bit wooden though.

    Biggest concern - This megaserver thing, I think server communities are important.
    Last edited by karaquazian; 19-02-2014 at 11:10 AM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by karaquazian View Post
    on the contrary, I think its one of the few MMOs that has a chance of actually growing.

    The "tutorial" part of the game is really bloody awful, the whole cold harbour bit is tedious, the starter island is very wow like and led by the nose from quest to quest. They've kind of shot themselves in the foot giving this inaccurate first impression of the game, but I get why they did it, they are expecting a lot of players who've never played a MMO before so they've slapped on what is essentially a 6-8 hour tutorial.

    Once you get about 6 hours in the game opens up, you can then just wander off the beaten track and encounter open world dungeons, hidden areas etc..

    Its become a game that all the hipsters have jumped on a hate wagon on for some reason, possibly under some mistaken beliefs that a) It is a TES skinned WOW, without having actually tried the game. b) that skyrim is a "sandbox"

    This site is a great review site for most games, but they are poor at reviewing MMOs, they didn't immediately call SWTOR for the utter snorefest generic crap it was, they are currently being much nicer to Wildstar than ESO, and make no mistake Wildstar is a massive wow clone.

    so my impressions.

    PVE pre level 8 or so - 3/10

    PVE after that - 7/10 - open dungeons, dark anchors, the hidden crafting stations, quest givers wandering about in the hills etc.. make it much more exploration based than your wow standard type mmos. Also theres no wow style quest hubbing.

    crafting - 8/10 - crafted gear is important in the game, and crafting is moderately complex. Its not as strong as something like Star wars Galaxies, but its a huge step up from something like wow or GW2. crafting in this game also lets you upgrade and change the appearance of items.

    PVP - 9/10 - It's really good. ESO will be one of the PVP mmos. If you think of everything GW2 did wrong when trying to copy Dark age of Camelot / Planetside, ESO makes all those decisions right. The Cyrodill map is huge, you could easily place all 4 WvW maps from GW2 inside it with room to spare, you could fit one of the planetside 2 continents in it with room to spare also. It performs way better than GW2, though not as good as planetside 2 since they did all them updates. The incentives are to HOLD keeps not TAKE them, there is little point in keep trading or running an endless "circle zerg". There is no ridiculous downed state, in fact resurrecting players in ESO is costly and you can't spawn anywhere that is currently under attack, unless you have a forward camp (like a planetside sunderer) Its going to take you 10 minutes + to get back in the big fights. If you've played DAOC or Shadowbane, this is the closest game to them PVP wise in a long long time. There are also lots of things off the beaten track outside the main keep lattice, such as open dungeons, dark anchors, sky shards, way shrines etc.. which support those who prefer a small group gank style of PVP (or the thrill of doing PVE with some danger)

    leveling system - 9/10 - you have several skill lines you level independently by using the skills within them and usually through a secondary means - e.g. the mages guild skill line also advances by discovering lore books. Providing the skill line is sufficiently used, you can then choose to spend skill points in any line (including crafting lines), which works like Perks in Skyrim. There's a lot of scope for expanding the game horizontally by adding new skill lines, like the thieves guild which is coming "soon".

    Combat - 7/10 - I played a dual wielding orc, the combat felt a bit floaty, though no more than other betas i played, like GW2. I also played a khajit with a 2 handed sword - the combat felt much more physical. I'm guessing they are still working on animations, some races definitely feel better than others. - Bows though, bows feel all wrong no matter what. Bows are the only weapon type where it feels weaker than skyrim combat wise. The combat grows on you once you have enough skills to fill your bar (around level 8 or so), and grows more at 15 when you can weapon swap. The combat really shines in PVP, where there are many decisions to be made about whether to interrupt / dodge or take the hit, whether to blow all your magika or stamina on a big attack or keep some back to defend yourself from the counter etc.. Also all the ultimates get most of their real power when you can get a team mate to channel it for you.

    UI - 6/10 - there's some good stuff like the lack of clutter, but anyone whos played beta will know just how bloody annoying that Q button with the radial menu to access your potions and food is. Also its the same old crappy skyrim backpack and the crafting interfaces are a bit clunky. The game could also use some sort of open group / raid interface in the vein of warhammer, rift or planetside 2.

    Economy - n/a - well hard to tell in a beta, so no score, but they've made some interesting design choices here. There is no global auction house in the game. There are 2 ways to trade - 1) in guild, all guilds have their own internal auction house. 2) at a guild owned keep in cyrodill, guilds can set up stores in keeps they claimed, only 1 keep per guild. I have a feeling this may slow down the gold farmers, but perhaps not.

    Biggest concern - This megaserver thing, I think server communities are important.

    So you're saying we should play what is essentially a boring, generic clone of a game for six hours - six entire hours - so that it finally deigns to allow us to have fun? And you're actually, really, okay with this fact?

    How about...No.

    Games should entertain from the start. If your tutorial isn't fun, I can forgive that. If its 15 - 30 minutes in length. Like Skyrim. But six hours? Why do you think I quit playing AC III? Besides which, I have seen both the quest setup - very much a WoW clone - and the combat, which is actually somehow worse than Skyrim's mediocre combat. At best.

    So no thanks. Its likely doomed to fail. And while I feel sorry for Zeni online folks, the game itself deserves to fail. Just as all outright clones do.

  15. #15
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackcompany View Post
    So you're saying we should play what is essentially a boring, generic clone of a game for six hours - six entire hours - so that it finally deigns to allow us to have fun? And you're actually, really, okay with this fact?
    This is what I like to call the "Final Fantasy 13 Syndrome". Its a game that takes several hours before it gets good. In FF case, something like 20 hours.
    "Halo is designed to make the player think "I look like that, I am macho sitting in my undies with my xbox""

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  16. #16
    Lesser Hivemind Node karaquazian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackcompany View Post
    So you're saying we should play what is essentially a boring, generic clone of a game for six hours - six entire hours - so that it finally deigns to allow us to have fun? And you're actually, really, okay with this fact?

    How about...No.

    Games should entertain from the start. If your tutorial isn't fun, I can forgive that. If its 15 - 30 minutes in length. Like Skyrim. But six hours? Why do you think I quit playing AC III? Besides which, I have seen both the quest setup - very much a WoW clone - and the combat, which is actually somehow worse than Skyrim's mediocre combat. At best.

    So no thanks. Its likely doomed to fail. And while I feel sorry for Zeni online folks, the game itself deserves to fail. Just as all outright clones do.
    All mmos have a crappy start, oblivion and skyrim have a crappy start. You play these games for hundreds of hours, so I can wade through 6 hours. Also from beta the starter zones is where they got the most negative feedback, so I expect if they fix anythign before release it will be this

    The quest set up is nothing like a wow clone. A wow clone you get some little outpost with guys with ? flying above their heads, these guys send you off to kill 10 wolves, then you come back and they say "oh i forgot can you now go and collect 20 wolf lungs", then you go back and they say "oh shit i forgot, can you now go and kill that wolf with the white fur please". It's not wow style quest hubbing at all. Even the crappy starter island isn't wow style its more like The Secret World.

    The combat is better than skyrim. Unless you use a bow.

    Predicting a MMO will fail, well we can all be Nostradamus on that front since 99% of them do. What i can say, every recent mmo, except planetside 2, I've become increasing bored as I've played them and not even managed to reach level cap with them, I jacked in GW2 after a month, I did't even last a week with SWTOR. ESO is the first MMO in years where I've enjoyed the game more as I've played it.

    I still don't get WHAT game you think it clones. It really really isn't a WOW clone. Rift is a wow clone, SWTOR is a wow clone, Wildstar is a wow clone, ESO isn't.

    ESO has more in common with pre WOW games like Everquest & Dark age of Camelot.
    Last edited by karaquazian; 19-02-2014 at 11:24 AM.

  17. #17
    Obscure Node
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus_Phish View Post
    This is what I like to call the "Final Fantasy 13 Syndrome". Its a game that takes several hours before it gets good. In FF case, something like 20 hours.
    And even then that would very much depend on your definition of good, and I like FF games.

  18. #18
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Squiz's Avatar
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    And with subscription fees.

  19. #19
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beva View Post
    And even then that would very much depend on your definition of good, and I like FF games.
    I've never actually played it. I stopped with 12, got excited about 13 until I started to see it, held off getting it on release and then found out that it sounded horrible.
    "Halo is designed to make the player think "I look like that, I am macho sitting in my undies with my xbox""

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  20. #20
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    as I remember, only the first ten minutes of all Elder Scrolls were shite, not 6 hours.

    If they are going to apply this to the rest of the game, then I assume actions that should take 10 minutes, will take 6 hours. grindfest ahoy.


    Unless its GW2 style PvP, then we might have an interesting game here, where in PvP players have access to everything.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications & The Shopkeeper, an interactive short.

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

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