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  1. #1
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Zephro's Avatar
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    Women vs Tropes in Video Games

    So the first episode is out:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6p5AZp7r_Q

    As it was so terribly controversial in the video gaming community I feel it warrants discussion. Generally though I agree with the entire thing, so I guess the talking point is what are your thoughts?

  2. #2
    Lesser Hivemind Node Kodeen's Avatar
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    I thought this series was actually an interesting idea, but I have to admit that I stopped watching at about 4 minutes in. I don't know if its because of production values or if I'm a closeted chauvinist, but I just couldn't bring myself to care.

  3. #3
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus SirKicksalot's Avatar
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    I'd like to know if it's as uninformed as her Bayonetta video before I start watching.

  4. #4
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus pakoito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirKicksalot View Post
    I'd like to know if it's as uninformed as her Bayonetta video before I start watching.
    3 minutes in so far: "We had this game with an empowering female, Miyamoto said he wanted the game as part of the Starfox franchise. Girl became a damsel in distress instead in Starfox Adventures. Sexism!"

    The reasoning seems to be broken and I'm not a quarter of the video in. Let's unpause.

  5. #5
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Zephro's Avatar
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    Well we're starting with an open mind, good. Anyone watched it yet?

  6. #6
    Lesser Hivemind Node Bhazor's Avatar
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    Gahhhh, Star Fox adventures.
    The game that single handedly killed my beloved Starfox series and by extension the whole genre. What a way to put me in a horrible depression in the opening minute.

    Otherwise the video is a pretty pitiless breakdown of the immaturity in videogame culture. I whole heartedly approve.
    “People will kill you over time, and how they’ll kill you is with tiny, harmless phrases, like “be realistic”
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  7. #7
    Activated Node Xzi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bhazor View Post
    Gahhhh, Star Fox adventures.
    The game that single handedly killed my beloved Starfox series and by extension the whole genre. What a way to put me in a horrible depression in the opening minute.

    Otherwise the video is a pretty pitiless breakdown of the immaturity in videogame culture. I whole heartedly approve.
    Is it really immature for males to want to protect/save females from danger? No, it's actually programmed into us through thousands of years of evolution. Granted, we now have ability to overcome this instinct with logic, but calling it "immature" just further serves to confuse the issue. We have to acknowledge every side of ourselves in order to move past our flaws, and that includes our most primal selves.

    Now, getting right into the heart of the issue, yes, a good portion of video games favored a male audience for a long time. But is that really a surprise? Girls and women were not active in video gaming communities during almost all of the 80s and 90s. Of course developers created games for a demographic that would buy them. Fast forward some twenty years later, the only reason that change is difficult is that so many of us guys grew up with games that were made for us. Specifically for us. Being the geeks/nerds that many of us were through middle school and high school, video games made us feel special and wanted/needed. The girls in middle school and high school made us feel quite the opposite. Now some of those very same individuals want gaming to cater to them.

    Of course, this is just one hypothetical point of view. There are any number of reasons why a man or even a woman might not want video games to be drastically changed/feminized. Some of them valid, others less so. Personally, I feel like gaming is already serving a very diverse audience, and continues to diversify even more every day. There are more developers, more AAA and indie games than I could ever keep up with. There are games for everybody out there as-is. So why waste time nit-picking the games you take issue with? You could be playing the ones you don't take issue with with that time instead.

    I mean, let's be honest here. Nobody likes someone with a victim complex. I could just as easily create a series called "Men vs Tropes in Video Games," and you'd be rolling your eyes just as much as I hope you are with this chick. Only real difference being that I probably wouldn't be able to raise a ton of free money for myself through Kickstarter.

  8. #8
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sakkura's Avatar
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    Well us mature people of the future have progressed to the much better "kill evil towelheads" trope.

    Pulp gaming is like pulp fiction.

  9. #9
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sabrage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sakkura View Post
    Well us mature people of the future have progressed to the much better "kill evil towelheads" trope.
    The "kill evil towelheads" trope that includes no female characters whatsoever? Not really a separate thing, that. (And how odd that Space Marine of all things comes to mind as the exception to portrayal of women in a military setting)

  10. #10
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sakkura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabrage View Post
    The "kill evil towelheads" trope that includes no female characters whatsoever?
    Huh. I must have played too few of those games to gauge whether they typically include a damsel in distress. I am such a horrible person.

  11. #11
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Zephro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sakkura View Post
    Huh. I must have played too few of those games to gauge whether they typically include a damsel in distress. I am such a horrible person.
    The point isn't that all games are bad because of a trope or that all games include this particular trope. So your point is....

  12. #12
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sakkura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zephro View Post
    The point isn't that all games are bad because of a trope or that all games include this particular trope. So your point is....
    My point is, don't expect anything above drivel if you're buying from drivel-peddlers. Buy yourself some Guild Wars 2 and help out the heroic Norn lady hero, that sort of thing.

    I don't see the point in this complaint, even if it's completely correct that women are portrayed in a sexist way. It goes way beyond the damsel in distress trope in the industry anyway. When the women do eventually buck up and do some hero-ine, they're most likely going to be in a chainmail bikini or have huge tits. And then there's the booth babe thing, which is infinitely worse IMO because it actually involves real women.

  13. #13
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sabrage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sakkura View Post
    Huh. I must have played too few of those games to gauge whether they typically include a damsel in distress. I am such a horrible person.
    I don't have 20 minutes to watch the video right now, so I wasn't referring to that particular damsel trope but rather representation in general. Personally, I'd like to see damsels without distress, and muck without mire and so on without the so forth.

  14. #14
    Lesser Hivemind Node TechnoJellyfish's Avatar
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    I don't like her eyebrows.

  15. #15
    Lesser Hivemind Node Bhazor's Avatar
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    Have to agree that the "Damsel" has fallen out of favour but her other topics sound more relevant to modern gaming.
    “People will kill you over time, and how they’ll kill you is with tiny, harmless phrases, like “be realistic”
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  16. #16
    Lesser Hivemind Node Bhazor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sakkura View Post
    Pulp gaming is like pulp fiction.
    So it's a shame theres nothing except pulp fiction in videogames. Every other medium has multiple levels from shlock to art with every level making it through to a large welcoming audience.

    In gaming its either absolute pulp or you're playing an AGS game by someone who still has to work a day job to make rent.
    “People will kill you over time, and how they’ll kill you is with tiny, harmless phrases, like “be realistic”
    Dylan Moran

  17. #17
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Fumarole's Avatar
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    Seemed alright to me, I didn't see anything in the video to disagree with.
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  18. #18
    As a straight white male I give this video two and a half mehs.

    Let's see what she has to say about modern games in part 2.

  19. #19
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus pakoito's Avatar
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    That "women are the ball" point is a little far fetched, isn't it? Suddenly after one "out of the feminist textbook" example and one ingame cut she's trying to pass it as fact?

    Quote Originally Posted by TechnoJellyfish View Post
    I don't like her eyebrows.
    No ad hominem, that's just cheap.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by pakoito View Post
    That "women are the ball" point is a little far fetched, isn't it?.
    It makes sense in the Mario context. Whether it actually holds up elsewhere is another matter.

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