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  1. #2341
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zephro View Post
    Well if you can't tell the difference between natural bias and actually acting upon it then... oh actually we know you're a sodding idiot.
    What does acting have to do with anything? I just pointed out how amazingly weird was that bias of yours. I don't give a rat's ass if you "act" on it or not, nor does it matter for me being amused by it.

  2. #2342
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Lambchops's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zephro View Post
    Cultural context is everything in these debates though. Hence my point earlier about natural bias, I have to be constantly aware that the seething hatred I have for public school boys does sometimes cloud my ability to listen to cogent arguments. Luckily they always makes reactionary statements for their own privilege so it rarely comes up.
    Hate the ridiculously unfair institution not the people!

    Have to say the majority of privately educated folks I've come across have been lovely (though there's a few of their friends who I know simply from second hand stories that I'd absolutely detest!) but then again that might just be because I'm mostly meeting scientists and not the politics students. Which just goes to show that my prejudices have just narrowed down onto a smaller target!

  3. #2343
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Zephro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
    Hate the ridiculously unfair institution not the people!

    Have to say the majority of privately educated folks I've come across have been lovely (though there's a few of their friends who I know simply from second hand stories that I'd absolutely detest!) but then again that might just be because I'm mostly meeting scientists and not the politics students. Which just goes to show that my prejudices have just narrowed down onto a smaller target!
    There's some truth in that. My friends who went to public school went to utterly provincial ones so their old boys tie don't really open doors for them. So yeah clearly there are some nice ones, plenty in fact but you don't tend to get in arguments with them because they're nice.

    Anyway you don't see the people who got all their privilege at a 30,000 a year school doing anything to change the unfair institution do you? The ones who actually hold the power to do so... so yeah fuck em.

    Oh also the champagne socialists who just couldn't possibly send Jemima to a state school as she's sooooo uniquely talented, I mean we really do stand for state schools really. Fuck those guys as well.

    This is only slightly off topic, it has something to do with fighting privilege in all its forms. This is probably why you don't get neo-liberal feminism or feminist capitalism.

  4. #2344
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Lambchops's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zephro View Post
    Oh also the champagne socialists who just couldn't possibly send Jemima to a state school as she's sooooo uniquely talented, I mean we really do stand for state schools really. Fuck those guys as well.
    I wholeheartedly concur.

  5. #2345
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Xercies's Avatar
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    I stand for great teaching and unfortunately I can understand why more people would want to pay to get their kid into it our state schools are white and will always be white and actually getting shifter.

  6. #2346
    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post

    The few issues they actually flack for - custody rights, employment in traditionally female-dominated fields such as elementary school teaching and nursing, Soldant - are ironically due to the outmoded gender roles as inflicted on women as compared to determined by women.
    Equality should be for everyone. So whilst most sexism effects women I am still going to complain about things such as men having a harder time with custody rights.

  7. #2347
    Quote Originally Posted by Zephro View Post
    Oh also the champagne socialists who just couldn't possibly send Jemima to a state school as she's sooooo uniquely talented, I mean we really do stand for state schools really. Fuck those guys as well.
    Yep, this really annoys me to. The hole private school thing is flawed as well. They get better results than state school because they only accept well academically able middle class and above children who come form rich enough families. The state schools have to teach the less academically able and "rougher" kids so of course their exam results and such are not going to be as good as the private schools. If I had my way everyone would have to go to state schools and they would all be secular.

  8. #2348
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zephro View Post
    Oh also the champagne socialists who just couldn't possibly send Jemima to a state school as she's sooooo uniquely talented, I mean we really do stand for state schools really. Fuck those guys as well.
    This can be a little unfair. If one is strongly in favour of abolishing x, one should still be allowed to make use of x in some cases without criticism. You have to live in the world you're in rather than pretending you're in the one you want to be in. In the schools example, those who dislike private education are typically disliking a system where the best schools go to the richest. The world they want to live in would have the best schools go evenly to people of all classes. Essentially they would want the children of all classes to have the same chances of a good education as their children. In the world as it stands, whether they send their children to private school or to state school, this is not going to be true.
    Irrelevant on further examination of the rest of the thread.

  9. #2349
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Zephro's Avatar
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    Well Lone Gunman already gave the counter to that. The state schools get bad BECAUSE the middle classes don't send their children there, so if you're against private schools and for state schools by sending your child to private school you are actively making the system even worse.

    EDIT: Anyway it's all part an parcel of the power struggle which feminism is a part of.

  10. #2350
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zephro View Post
    Well Lone Gunman already gave the counter to that. The state schools get bad BECAUSE the middle classes don't send their children there, so if you're against private schools and for state schools by sending your child to private school you are actively making the system even worse.

    EDIT: Anyway it's all part an parcel of the power struggle which feminism is a part of.
    Again: you have to live in the world you're in. Whether your child goes to a state school or a private school contributes essentially no difference to the world in general, but it's not incoherent to think that it might make significant difference to the child in question. I don't think making that choice warrants burning hatred.
    Irrelevant on further examination of the rest of the thread.

  11. #2351
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Zephro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NathanH View Post
    Again: you have to live in the world you're in. Whether your child goes to a state school or a private school contributes essentially no difference to the world in general, but it's not incoherent to think that it might make significant difference to the child in question. I don't think making that choice warrants burning hatred.
    I don't think it would make significant difference to the child in question, other than inherited privilege which is something I'd generally be against. I am also basically for a 100% death duty.

    The state school in question would have to be a real sinkhole for that argument to hold weight as it implies that sending a child to state school does them harm.

  12. #2352
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    Zephro i could be wrong on this but a few pages back you said you hung around with "london professionals" what ever the fuck that means. I dont care enough to go back and find out but im pretty sure it was you. Youve spent the last few posts complaining about "toffs" what ever that hell that means, and also complaining about champagne socialists. Do you realise how ridiculous that sounds? Do you reailse how middle class you sound. Your like a Harry Enfield sketch.

    People should be able to go to what ever the fuck school they want, just like you can eat what ever the fuck food you want. Cant afford caviar? Dont eat caviar. Prefer to spend you money crap and eat tesco value noodles? Guess what its your choice. Cant afford to go to Eton? Guess what state schools are pretty decent and if you realy want to go to a private school theres plenty of cheap ones about, and unless you want to go to the poshest of the posh drinking clubs at Oxford or Cambridge your going to be ok.

    Maybe your "proffesional london" mates think UKIP are racist but all my mates think they has it spot on. Maybe thats because theres not many Poles that can steal a job off a banker in London, where as if your a plumber or a plasterer then your fucked.

  13. #2353
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zephro View Post
    Oh also the champagne socialists who just couldn't possibly send Jemima to a state school as she's sooooo uniquely talented, I mean we really do stand for state schools really. Fuck those guys as well.
    I used to teach in a public high school where the principal herself trusted her own ability so much she sent her child to a private school.

    For public schools overall in NYC, we used to have the model for the country in how to do things right - in living memory, the CUNY system was considered the working man's Harvard. The high school system then was about as strong as some college systems now.

    Then the teachers sued for the ability to divorce teacher retention to student success, based on the conceit that some students are simply unteachable. Mostly the white and Jewish teachers, you see, and mostly the Black and Latino students. They won in 1964 after a long strike.

    With the tenure system thus having turned into an iron rice bowl, and coupled with the stark budget crisis in 1975, the standards fell precipitously and anybody with any means (read: white and Jewish parents) yanked their kids outta the system and threw them into private schools or suburban public schools as quickly as they could.

    The end result is, of course, an underfunded, dysfunctional and benighted public system that chews up an endless line of inexperienced teachers with the most segregated student body in the country, where most standard schools are close to 100% Black/Latino and most magnet/specialized/private schools are close to 100% white/Jewish.
    Last edited by Nalano; 23-08-2013 at 01:13 PM.
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  14. #2354
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Zephro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChippyTea View Post
    Zephro i could be wrong on this but a few pages back you said you hung around with "london professionals" what ever the fuck that means. I dont care enough to go back and find out but im pretty sure it was you. Youve spent the last few posts complaining about "toffs" what ever that hell that means, and also complaining about champagne socialists. Do you realise how ridiculous that sounds? Do you reailse how middle class you sound. Your like a Harry Enfield sketch.
    Well as I never claimed to be anything other than middle class I'm not really sure how that's an insult either way. But you have spent most of this thread telling people off for being pseudo intellectuals, so your opinion of me really counts for very little.

    Though the fact you think I'm a banker did have me in stitches.
    Last edited by Zephro; 23-08-2013 at 01:09 PM.

  15. #2355
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zephro View Post
    Well as I never claimed to be anything other than middle class I'm not really sure how that's an insult either way. But you're a tit who has spent most of this thread telling people off for being pseudo intellectuals, so your opinion of me really counts for very little.

    Though the fact you think I'm a banker did have me in stitches.
    Where did i say you were a banker? Were did i say i was a plumber and a plasterer? They are examples. I have no idea what you do other than moan on RPS about all the inequalities in life. I assume because you feel so strongly about death taxes and accrued wealth that you will give all your belongings to charity when you die? Your partner/dependents/family will recieve nothing from you? Or maybe you intend to give it away as you go? Living a scant life taking just as much enjoyment off your middle class London lifestyle as you need to survive giving the rest away to the poor and needy. You can start with your internet connect and computer pal! Think of the children!!!

    Dont make me laugh.

  16. #2356
    Quote Originally Posted by NathanH View Post
    Again: you have to live in the world you're in. Whether your child goes to a state school or a private school contributes essentially no difference to the world in general, but it's not incoherent to think that it might make significant difference to the child in question. I don't think making that choice warrants burning hatred.
    I'm not even sure going to a private school makes that much difference to your child's grades. Back to the point that private schools only accept "smart" children. Your "smart" child will mostly likely do just as well in a state school. Although it may not get the bonus of snobbery of employers giving those from a top notch private school an unfair advantage. But funnily enough it won't always help either. I have had friends that went to a private school and some universities would ask for higher grades from private school students than their state school counter parts which I thought was hilarious. Their parents had paid all that money for a disadvantage :p

    Of course no one is going to change an y of this class based segregation as those who make the rules are more often than not the ones who benefit from it.

  17. #2357
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Lambchops's Avatar
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    Calling it now, Zephro and ChippyTea are one man's attempts to solve the war within himself via the medium of a single thread on the RPS forums. It's like our very own version of Fight Club!

  18. #2358
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    Stop ruining things

  19. #2359
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    My self loathing at my middleclassness as manifested itself into an on line split personality (me), this thread is the final showdown, I've (Zephro) had enough, this is the line in the sand, no one leaves here without an RPS forum ban!!!

  20. #2360
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Gunman View Post
    I'm not even sure going to a private school makes that much difference to your child's grades. Back to the point that private schools only accept "smart" children. Your "smart" child will mostly likely do just as well in a state school. Although it may not get the bonus of snobbery of employers giving those from a top notch private school an unfair advantage. But funnily enough it won't always help either. I have had friends that went to a private school and some universities would ask for higher grades from private school students than their state school counter parts which I thought was hilarious. Their parents had paid all that money for a disadvantage :p
    I don't feel in a position to make a definitive statement about whether or not the private school is significantly better or not significantly better. I don't think many people are in a position to make a definitive statement. You and Zephro don't think they make much difference. Fair enough. I don't intend to say "fuck you guys". I just think the same courtesy should be extended to people who think they do make a significant difference and therefore choose to use them, even if they would prefer to be in a world where the option didn't exist. Not "fuck those guys" either.

    Of course no one is going to change an y of this class based segregation as those who make the rules are more often than not the ones who benefit from it.
    I imagine in practice banning fee-paying schools wouldn't make an enormous amount of difference because the rich would still have more ability to get their children into the good schools, and anyway they'd be able to spend the money they've saved in school fees on private tuition. In some sense it might be even worse---for instance working class kids like me at least had the option of trying to get a scholarship to a private school, even if there aren't many places available, whereas I can't imagine getting scholarships for private tuition.
    Irrelevant on further examination of the rest of the thread.

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