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Thread: Women vs Tropes in Video Games
07-03-2013, 11:12 PM #21
I'm going to be blunt here: it's a dramatic reading of TVTropes. There isn't much here that isn't on the relevant TVTropes pages. Bonus points for shooting her argument in the foot by invoking Tropes Are Not Bad, too.
07-03-2013, 11:13 PM #22
Have to agree that the "Damsel" has fallen out of favour but her other topics sound more relevant to modern gaming.“People will kill you over time, and how they’ll kill you is with tiny, harmless phrases, like “be realistic”
― Dylan Moran
07-03-2013, 11:16 PM #23
- Join Date
- Jul 2012
I was just really bored. Its nothing new or interesting, its pretty tame as feminism goes, and its not going to convince misogynists of anything. Its basically just a list of damsels in distress in video games.
I agree with the idea, both of this specific video and of women vs tropes in general but, the execution fails.
07-03-2013, 11:20 PM #24
Watched the whole thing. Not much I would disagree with, actually quiet contrary. I think she did her research pretty well.
But I think she kinda messed up the min19-21 part with the remakes. That's... not so good. I can see what she wanted to get at put the presentation of that part is rather crappy. It lacks the rather neutral stance and choice of words of the previous scenes.
Last edited by bonkers; 07-03-2013 at 11:23 PM.
07-03-2013, 11:28 PM #25
07-03-2013, 11:35 PM #26
07-03-2013, 11:39 PM #27
So we can agree we need a new McGuffin that doesn't get people offended. Suggestions? I just deleted a highly cynic post with one.
07-03-2013, 11:42 PM #28
I'm not sure what exactly the purpose of this is; if the idea is just to list video game tropes then fair enough, but if it's supposed to support a deeper discussion it's not doing a very good job of it. The only thing the video really shows is that Miyamoto is terrible at characterisation, which I'm pretty sure we already know, that video games are often dumb and remakes of old games are still as dumb as the games that spawned them. A video discussing causation rather than just listing examples would be more interesting, but perhaps that's not what's on the agenda.
So yeah, meh.
Last edited by Skalpadda; 07-03-2013 at 11:53 PM.
07-03-2013, 11:53 PM #29
- Join Date
- Nov 2011
Okay, I now know what irks me about this video. It's "Women in Storytelling". Well great, what do video games as a unique medium have to do with that?
07-03-2013, 11:54 PM #30
Three minutes in and my brain is already booking tickets on a one-way flight to Jamaica.
All I keep thinking here as she goes on this rote, tepid meandering about female disempowerment is "IS THE GAME STILL GOOD!?" She said the game looked pretty cool before. It certainly looked like it was worth a go, it still looks pretty good in the finished product. Okay, they reworked the characters to shoehorn an established IP to boost sales, but that's pretty much par for the course for Nintendo. You'd have to be a rank dullard not to know that by now. Or you'd have to be Anita Sarkeesian and go around common sense to in your endless quest to find misogyny where it doesn't exist.
Sorry, three minutes is all I can give her. Her face, her voice and the fact that she lectures game designers on game design just makes me want to vomit. I certainly hope those game designers give her all the credence she deserves, I.E. none. Congratulations to anyone who actually donated to her in the kickstarter fiasco. I hope you're enjoying that super sized meal of buyer's remorse right now.
Just as a quick aside, I'm not a misogynist in any way. But I also do not believe the artist should be beholden to the censor. In the end, the greatest and most effective critic is the consumer, who votes with their dollars or yen or euros or what have you.
I should probably go back real quick and downvote her though. Since she disabled comments.
Edit: Never mind, she disabled those too. What a fucking brat.
P.S. Does anyone know how to use strikes on this forum, or if you can?
Last edited by Dead Herald; 07-03-2013 at 11:57 PM.
07-03-2013, 11:58 PM #31
08-03-2013, 12:06 AM #32
Anyway artists aren't beholden to a censor but neither do they exist in a vacuum. They live within society like the rest of us as do critics. However this capitalist view isn't exactly one that the rest of us hold to, the only way to judge art is by voting with their dollar? By that understanding the greatest piece of art ever, for a while, was James Cameron's Titanic. I doubt anybody uses that as their measuring stick for art.
08-03-2013, 12:14 AM #33
- Join Date
- Jul 2012
"I'm not a misogynist in any way."
Said every misogynist ever. Not even getting into the fact that not being, personally, a misogynist, doesn't mean you don't aid and abet misogynist systems. But then we've already established in the other thread that you are stupid.
"In the end, the greatest and most effective critic is the consumer, who votes with their dollars or yen or euros or what have you."
Justin Bieber says hi. You better go listen to JBiebs while watching Twilight according to this logic. Why listen to and watch content that just isn't as good?
Actually a 3rd thing:
I agree that the video sucks and is boring. But not for the reasons you do.
08-03-2013, 12:20 AM #34
She tells an interesting tale, if for no other reason than that it's a nice trip down memory lane, and I have to agree with some of the earlier posters that I don't find much to disagree with - I just don't think the described situation is really all that much of a problem.
"He has anointed me to bring good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim release to
the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to let the oppressed go free". ~ Luke 4:18
08-03-2013, 12:33 AM #35
Please stop talking to me.
08-03-2013, 12:34 AM #36
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- Feb 2012
- Stockton-on-Tees, UK
I wonder how much the damsel-in-distress thing is genre dependent. I've seen a lot of people on RPS pretty much taking it as obvious that most women in video games are captives or most captives in video games are women or something like that. But as someone who plays primarily strategy games and western RPGs, I've rescued (and been rescued by) so many different people of all types that it would be a really huge effort for me to analyse whether the underlying trends are significantly slanted one way or the other.
I mean, this week I've been playing 4 gamebooks (physical games, but similar to the sorts of video game that I play). So far I've recued three men from captivity, one woman from a monster, been imprisoned once, enslaved once, and rescued from a huge monster by a dwarf in a digging machine. This sort of stuff just happens every five minutes!
Last edited by NathanH; 08-03-2013 at 12:36 AM.Irrelevant on further examination of the rest of the thread.
08-03-2013, 12:38 AM #37
When the public clearly disagrees with the critics, then isn't their job worthless? Aren't they just preaching to their fellow critics?
I find movie and music criticism useless. The critics are no longer in service of the public, but of their own closed caste. The people scream they like Transformers, POTC and Taken 2, while critics are the equivalent of the "stop having fun" stickman. Dollars are a bad way to measure success because mathematics/economy, but generally it's really obvious what people like and what they don't.
At least game criticism has entertainment value thanks to its universal shittiness.
08-03-2013, 12:47 AM #38
So I gave her a shot. I really did.
0:00 - Okay, she's said some ridiculous stuff before but hey, I'll give her some of my time.
1:00 - Please don't just list a bunch of tropes.
2:00 - Alright they changed the game... not really sure why this is a big deal yet.
9:00 - Yes Nintendo are using the same crap again and again, I know.
13:00 - Screw it, you're just listing tropes, I'm going to watch that guy connect his tongue to AC and DC circuits.
I'm not a fan of hers nor am I part of the violent opposition - from what I've seen of her work her arguments frequently draw pretty long bows or fail to establish any sort of relevance or major point. Maybe she's saving her arguments for the next part, or maybe she's dialing it down now that she's in the spotlight. I don't know, but for all the hype and rage over this thing, this video was bad. It should have spent 5 minutes listing examples of this trope, then got into whatever her point is. If I was a backer, I'd like to know where she's spent the money.
Nalano's Law - As an online gaming discussion regarding restrictions grows longer, the probability of a post likening the topic to the Democratic People's Republic of Korea approaches one.
Soldant's Law - A person will happily suspend their moral values if they can express moral outrage by doing so.
08-03-2013, 12:52 AM #39
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- Jul 2012
What is good and what people like are are not the same thing. Especially in music where what sells is totally based on the physical appearance of the singer. They could be a mediocre singer with mediocre songs but if its pretty people of the opposite sex singing about sex or love then people will buy it.
Just because you like something doesn't mean its good for you. And generally the shitty stuff takes over the market.
08-03-2013, 12:52 AM #40
- Join Date
- Jun 2011