Page 43 of 192 FirstFirst ... 3341424344455393143 ... LastLast
Results 841 to 860 of 3831
  1. #841
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Unaco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,905
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    I just have an opinion different to your own. Circle jerking is good for no one, be glad somebody isn't afraid to disagree with women on the internet.
    Oh wow. This is parody, right?

    Don't worry ladies... he's doing it for your own good. You'll thank him one day.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    I just have an opinion different to your own. Circle jerking is good for no one, be glad somebody isn't afraid to disagree with women on the internet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    No, you are literally the cancer that is killing gaming.
    Quote Originally Posted by Serenegoose View Post
    Nobody's ever lost sleep over being called a cracker.

  2. #842
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,583
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post



    Heh. I'm not concerned that you are going to take my games away. I just have an opinion different to your own. Circle jerking is good for no one, be glad somebody isn't afraid to disagree with women on the internet.

    Wow, you brave internet warrior, all alone on the webs in a sea of belligerent women. Who else, you ask, will tilt at these windmills, if not you?

  3. #843
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Hypernetic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    2,154
    Good arguments guys.

  4. #844
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Unaco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,905
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    however you just seem to be unjustifiably upset.
    My upset is quite justifiable... you come into the thread and say "this is just silly!". People say "we've gone over why it's not silly, maybe you could read that". "Fuck that" says you... and you then refuse to take account of anyone else's position.

    And, then you say stuff like...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    I just have an opinion different to your own. Circle jerking is good for no one, be glad somebody isn't afraid to disagree with women on the internet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    I just have an opinion different to your own. Circle jerking is good for no one, be glad somebody isn't afraid to disagree with women on the internet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    No, you are literally the cancer that is killing gaming.
    Quote Originally Posted by Serenegoose View Post
    Nobody's ever lost sleep over being called a cracker.

  5. #845
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gwathdring's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Washington State, USA
    Posts
    3,720
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    1) That's the point though, trying to change gaming doesn't mean anything when the problem isn't with gaming.

    2) Glad you (sort of?) got the joke.
    2) I didn't realize it was a joke because it was utterly in keeping with the rest of your opinion except for the logical fallacy. It didn't seem especially out of place other than that. Sorry.

    1) I assert that gaming adds specific problems on top of societies gender problems. Gaming has some particular differences and eccentricities that add to the mess rather than simply balance it out. In the strictest sense, gaming isn't outside of society so neither are these eccentricities ... but the strictest sense doesn't explain fake geek girls.

    I guess I disagree with you primarily at the philosophical level then. I think we can see these issues as both separate game culture issues and integrated societal issues. I think we can fix the elements of them that are unique to gaming and help shore up gaming culture against entrenched sexism so that gaming sub-culture doesn't fall behind the curve. I'd argue, similarly, that super hero comics have fallen behind the curve and that it's a problem. DC's New 52 lineup is really depressing as a result.

    I guess it also depends on how serious a problem you view it that a lot of women feel less welcome in gaming than their male counterparts. Be it confirmation bias or no, it's as much the fault of the gaming interior as the gaming exterior. It's complicated by the way mainstream society looks down on gaming culture to be sure, and that's worth talking about too. But I guess I see these as things we can work on as an industry, as a sub-culture, and even as a one-forum community here at RPS. People don't live in all of society and if we can make a few small corners of it a little nicer or at least a little more aware of how they could be nicer ... that's worth it to me.

    Edit: GAve the PS it's own post.
    Last edited by gwathdring; 21-03-2013 at 06:01 PM.
    I think of [the Internet] as a grisly raw steak laid out on a porcelain benchtop in the sun, covered in chocolate hazelnut sauce. In the background plays Stardustís Music Sounds Better With You. Thereís lots of fog. --tomeoftom

    You ruined his point by putting it in context thatís cheating -bull0

  6. #846
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,583
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    Good arguments guys.
    Yeah, you've definitely shown me!

  7. #847
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Faldrath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    S„o Paulo
    Posts
    1,194
    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus_Phish View Post
    It's easy not to engage a person who doesn't want to engage the thread by reading back over it. To be fair the thread has gone through so many tangents that it's understandable someone new to the thread might just skim through it or read the last few pages. Or just state their opinion.
    He could have at least searched the thread to see if the issue he wanted to discuss had been brought up before, which would be a reasonable assumption to make. And it has been brought up before, more than once. Instead, he chose to just post his opinion. To me, that's a clear indication that he isn't really interested in debating other people's viewpoints (that's where I think he's not "being excellent"), he just thinks he knows the truth and won't be swayed. So, no point in engaging with him.

  8. #848
    Administrator Rossignol's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    249
    No insults, or thread closes and people get banned.

    Observe Rule 1 at all times.

  9. #849
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gwathdring's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Washington State, USA
    Posts
    3,720
    P.S. As much as I dislike Unaco's approach, I have to agree that your attitude entering into this thread was disrespectful. That doesn't excuse the conduct I've already censured, but there it is. While I don't think reading 40 pages should be necessary to take part in a discussion, you have seemingly brushed aside arguments relevant to your dissenting opinions without acknowledgment--this is possibly due to a misunderstanding of their relevance to your stance on my part as well, however. I'd also add to Serenegoose: your method of explaining that Hypernetic's arguments, or very similar ones, have been discussed at length before was far from clear or respectful. I believe it involved snippy remarks about Bingo. To your credit, other people said similar things more nicely first, and perhaps I'm mis-remembering and you were one of them.

    Is there something we can do to hit the reset button on all of this, and start on an emotionally clean slate?
    I think of [the Internet] as a grisly raw steak laid out on a porcelain benchtop in the sun, covered in chocolate hazelnut sauce. In the background plays Stardustís Music Sounds Better With You. Thereís lots of fog. --tomeoftom

    You ruined his point by putting it in context thatís cheating -bull0

  10. #850
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Hypernetic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    2,154
    Quote Originally Posted by gwathdring View Post
    2) I didn't realize it was a joke because it was utterly in keeping with the rest of your opinion except for the logical fallacy. It didn't seem especially out of place other than that. Sorry.

    1) I assert that gaming adds specific problems on top of societies gender problems. Gaming has some particular differences and eccentricities that add to the mess rather than simply balance it out. In the strictest sense, gaming isn't outside of society so neither are these eccentricities ... but the strictest sense doesn't explain fake geek girls.

    I guess I disagree with you primarily at the philosophical level then. I think we can see these issues as both separate game culture issues and integrated societal issues. I think we can fix the elements of them that are unique to gaming and help shore up gaming culture against entrenched sexism so that gaming sub-culture doesn't fall behind the curve. I'd argue, similarly, that super hero comics have fallen behind the curve and that it's a problem. DC's New 52 lineup is really depressing as a result.

    I guess it also depends on how serious a problem you view it that a lot of women feel less welcome in gaming than their male counterparts. Be it confirmation bias or no, it's as much the fault of the gaming interior as the gaming exterior. It's complicated by the way mainstream society looks down on gaming culture to be sure, and that's worth talking about too. But I guess I see these as things we can work on as an industry, as a sub-culture, and even as a one-forum community here at RPS. People don't live in all of society and if we can make a few small corners of it a little nicer or at least a little more aware of how they could be nicer ... that's worth it to me.
    I don't really think "women vs tropes" is related, at all, to women being accepted as equals in gaming. It's a completely separate issue, and isn't even related to just women. Gaming (and the internet in general) culture is extremely offensive to everyone. It's full of racism and bigotry. The reasons for that have nothing to do with tropes in games.

    As for the other part, I suppose we shall agree to disagree on that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unaco View Post
    My upset is quite justifiable... you come into the thread and say "this is just silly!". People say "we've gone over why it's not silly, maybe you could read that". "Fuck that" says you... and you then refuse to take account of anyone else's position.

    And, then you say stuff like...
    Yeah, unjustifiably upset it is.

  11. #851
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gwathdring's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Washington State, USA
    Posts
    3,720
    Quote Originally Posted by Faldrath View Post
    He could have at least searched the thread to see if the issue he wanted to discuss had been brought up before
    It's really hard to do that with arguments. Topics, sure, but not arguments. And when the topic is sort of the title of the thread, it's probably going to show up all over the place in irrelevant spots given how long the thread is.
    I think of [the Internet] as a grisly raw steak laid out on a porcelain benchtop in the sun, covered in chocolate hazelnut sauce. In the background plays Stardustís Music Sounds Better With You. Thereís lots of fog. --tomeoftom

    You ruined his point by putting it in context thatís cheating -bull0

  12. #852
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Faldrath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    S„o Paulo
    Posts
    1,194
    Quote Originally Posted by gwathdring View Post
    It's really hard to do that with arguments. Topics, sure, but not arguments. And when the topic is sort of the title of the thread, it's probably going to show up all over the place in irrelevant spots given how long the thread is.
    It's hard, but not unfeasible. If he's not going to take the effort to find out what has been going on, I'm not going to take the effort to discuss with him. With the usual pinch of salt for real life analogies: it's like someone sitting at a table in which a discussion has been going on for 2 hours. A reasonable person who respects the other people at the table would probably try to figure out what has been going on instead of just jumping in.

  13. #853
    Network Hub
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    205
    Quote Originally Posted by Rossignol View Post
    No insults, or thread closes and people get banned.

    Observe Rule 1 at all times.
    That boat seems to have sailed, and struck an iceberg, and sank, and had multiple documentaries made about it. Try a search of the thread for the word 'troglodyte'.

  14. #854
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    NY f'n C
    Posts
    9,917
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    1) That's the point though, trying to change gaming doesn't mean anything when the problem isn't with gaming.
    Sexist games are a symptom. Sexism is the disease*. You're correct that working the symptom will not correct the disease. But damn if you shouldn't take some ibuprofen anyway.

    As for excellence, we've crossed that line on page one. Suffice it to say we've circumnavigated the globe of consummate shittiness and stand to cross it again.

    *well, it's really more like cancer. Lance it!
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
    Director of the Friends of Nalano PAC
    Attorney at Lawl
    "His lack of education is more than compensated for by his keenly developed moral bankruptcy." - Woody Allen

  15. #855
    Lesser Hivemind Node Winged Nazgul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    610
    Quote Originally Posted by dsch View Post
    That boat seems to have sailed, and struck an iceberg, and sank, and had multiple documentaries made about it. Try a search of the thread for the word 'troglodyte'.
    Or basically any Nalano post. :P

  16. #856
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Hypernetic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    2,154
    Quote Originally Posted by Faldrath View Post
    It's hard, but not unfeasible. If he's not going to take the effort to find out what has been going on, I'm not going to take the effort to discuss with him. With the usual pinch of salt for real life analogies: it's like someone sitting at a table in which a discussion has been going on for 2 hours. A reasonable person who respects the other people at the table would probably try to figure out what has been going on instead of just jumping in.
    Nah. Discussion was happening just fine. Unaco decided I should read 40 pages because he didn't feel like coming up with an actual response to me and then a few of you jumped on the bandwagon.

    All this talk about reading 40 pages is pointless though, I'm not going to. If any new discussion in this thread is going to be greeted with "go read the last 40 pages, it's already all been discussed and unless you agree with us we don't care" then the thread should be deleted. There is no more discussion worth having.

  17. #857
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gwathdring's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Washington State, USA
    Posts
    3,720
    The reasons for that have nothing to do with tropes in games.
    Why not? It's a reasonable frame for the discussion. We're working with entertainment media and it's filled with common themes, repeating narratives, repeating tropes ... breaking the discussion down along these sort of lines seems pretty natural and relevant to me.

    If you think the whole discussion is unimportant ... then I'm not sure where to go next. What discussion do you think would be more relevant? Should we desist all social discussion pertaining to games? Or is it more that talking about gender issues in particular is useless? Because I'd again argue that we ought to break up the discussion somehow and that looking at gender discrimination as a separate issue from racial discrimination in gaming culture is a fairly sensible and natural thing to do. There's too much stuff otherwise. Just this thread with all it's cross-referencing took up 42 pages so far and people are still going at it. Think of how convoluted the comment threads get when even more generic, socially-charged issues are brought up in articles.

    But again, if you just think discussing this stuff is stupid to being with I don't really have a response. And I'm not sure why you're here, in that case.
    I think of [the Internet] as a grisly raw steak laid out on a porcelain benchtop in the sun, covered in chocolate hazelnut sauce. In the background plays Stardustís Music Sounds Better With You. Thereís lots of fog. --tomeoftom

    You ruined his point by putting it in context thatís cheating -bull0

  18. #858
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gwathdring's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Washington State, USA
    Posts
    3,720
    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    Sexist games are a symptom. Sexism is the disease*. You're correct that working the symptom will not correct the disease. But damn if you shouldn't take some ibuprofen anyway.

    As for excellence, we've crossed that line on page one. Suffice it to say we've circumnavigated the globe of consummate shittiness and stand to cross it again.

    *well, it's really more like cancer. Lance it!
    Well said on the first one, but I guess I'd use it as a counter-argument for the second one. Terrible smelling shit having already occurred, we should wipe up, flush, wash our hands, and carry on.
    I think of [the Internet] as a grisly raw steak laid out on a porcelain benchtop in the sun, covered in chocolate hazelnut sauce. In the background plays Stardustís Music Sounds Better With You. Thereís lots of fog. --tomeoftom

    You ruined his point by putting it in context thatís cheating -bull0

  19. #859
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Unaco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,905
    I take all my posts back. I apologise. Instead, this is the post I should have made...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    I'm not going to read 40 pages of any thread, sorry. As for the rest of your post, that's not convincing enough to me to say these tropes are bad for society. There is also a difference between making characters visually appealing and sexualizing them.


    Were you following the thread hypernetic? No, so you have no frame of reference...
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    I just have an opinion different to your own. Circle jerking is good for no one, be glad somebody isn't afraid to disagree with women on the internet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    No, you are literally the cancer that is killing gaming.
    Quote Originally Posted by Serenegoose View Post
    Nobody's ever lost sleep over being called a cracker.

  20. #860
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Hypernetic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    2,154
    Quote Originally Posted by gwathdring View Post
    Why not? It's a reasonable frame for the discussion. We're working with entertainment media and it's filled with common themes, repeating narratives, repeating tropes ... breaking the discussion down along these sort of lines seems pretty natural and relevant to me.

    If you think the whole discussion is unimportant ... then I'm not sure where to go next. What discussion do you think would be more relevant? Should we desist all social discussion pertaining to games? Or is it more that talking about gender issues in particular is useless? Because I'd again argue that we ought to break up the discussion somehow and that looking at gender discrimination as a separate issue from racial discrimination in gaming culture is a fairly sensible and natural thing to do. There's too much stuff otherwise. Just this thread with all it's cross-referencing took up 42 pages so far and people are still going at it. Think of how convoluted the comment threads get when even more generic, socially-charged issues are brought up in articles.

    But again, if you just think discussing this stuff is stupid to being with I don't really have a response. And I'm not sure why you're here, in that case.
    I think you misunderstand. I don't believe that they are related issues, not that they aren't worth discussing. My point was that people aren't dicks on the internet because of damsels in distress.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •