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  1. #901
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    I'm sympathetic with her goals, but it all comes across as an undergraduate paper. Citation of irrelevant encyclopedic facts just to show you did some homework (the first that gave a chuckle: trotting out French phrases that have literal renderings in English, then translating them to illuminate ... absolutely nothing), some very dry reading of stilted language, and rather banal insights.

    I was hoping that the budget and time would have afforded something more compelling and engaging. And it probably should have.

    I think she's just not very good at this kind of thing, and it's a shame the controversy propped her up. But maybe she's inspired someone else with real talent for argument, stage presence or production value to take it on. Here's hoping.
    Last edited by khomotso; 22-03-2013 at 10:15 AM.

  2. #902
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Zephro's Avatar
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    I guess you can say I have softened my stance on her. Though I withhold the right to point out when her arguments become silly, such as pink legos.
    Don't think anyone said you shouldn't. It's not perfect, what is, but one thing this thread shows it that there is clearly a space for "undergraduate" level discussion of this. Due to, as Unaco correctly called, the ignorant.

    10 minute youtube videos are hardly going to be ground breaking academic works, but they at least get some conversation going and get people into either reading more or having a think.

  3. #903
    Network Hub Dead Herald's Avatar
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    I'm just saying that if Pink Legos were poured out in front of me, I would not spend my time criticizing the color. I would simply start building things.

  4. #904
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    do they? I think that think doesnt really go beyond "oh dear". like some indigestion. but then again, its one thing to figure out how to improve a situation, its another to carry it out. I think we're heading in the right direction, so hopefully, it's a matter of time. and yes, it will take time. if thats not enough, I suggest improving it on a personal level. thats more than enough, really.
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  5. #905
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Zephro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dead Herald View Post
    I'm just saying that if Pink Legos were poured out in front of me, I would not spend my time criticizing the color. I would simply start building things.
    Fair enough, I do think pink lego was bloody stupid though. It should just be lego and it gets dumped infront of any person and that person builds things.

    I mean have you seen it these days? There's so little building involved as you get all these special pink princess parts, which don't really fit with the base stuff, or alternately these stupid warrior lego things for boys. It's just shit lego basically.

    Note: by shit I mean "not like when I was a kid!"

  6. #906
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zephro View Post
    Fair enough, I do think pink lego was bloody stupid though. It should just be lego and it gets dumped infront of any person and that person builds things.

    I mean have you seen it these days? There's so little building involved as you get all these special pink princess parts, which don't really fit with the base stuff, or alternately these stupid warrior lego things for boys. It's just shit lego basically.

    Note: by shit I mean "not like when I was a kid!"
    That's really not the case. The Lego Friends stuff is at least as complicated as the more boy oriented Star Wars/Harry Potter stuff of a similar size, all of which is itself a lot more complicated than you may think..

    Over Christmas I spent about five hours building a Lego Millennium Falcon with my eldest. Very few of the pieces are custom designed (apart from the cockpit window section) and would easily lend themselves to other building projects.

    Although I agree about the warrior Lego stuff, but that's kind of separate from the rest of the Lego and, ironically, lends itself more to character based story play than other Lego. Which I believe is what they were trying to strive towards with the Lego Friends

  7. #907
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Zephro's Avatar
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    Yeah but it's the story stuff that annoys me. I wasn't talking about ALL lego. I've got some of the star wars lego and still have a few lego Technic super cars bought when I was far too old for them. They're still great.

    But the Friends stuff... the fact that the figures aren't yellow lego people bugs me. It's all apart from traditional lego, rather than just being a part of it. You're right it looks less like custom bits than last time I saw it.
    http://friends.lego.com/en-gb/produc...olivias-house/
    That does not look as complicated or as good as the Lego Town stuff. It also strikes me that it ought to just be part of the Lego town stuff. Keep the same look and feel but add a stable or whatever stereotypical "girl" thing you want, but do it within the existing framework. Though even looking at the City stuff now there aren't any actual houses, just firestations and cops and robbers sets. It seems way more gendered than it did when I was a child. Also the categories are all "Something" fighter or conquest etc.

    As a side note, I genuinely think lego could be a force for good in these kinds of situations. As I work in programming and my experience of it and university and school was that women don't show an interest in maths/engineering (not ability but interest). I'm sure so much of that could be solved by raising girls on lego, mechano, train sets like we all were.

  8. #908
    Network Hub Makariel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zephro View Post
    Note: by shit I mean "not like when I was a kid!"
    There is still the creator-series which has some neat kits. Then then there's always lego technic (which has always been my "home" in the lego universe).
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  9. #909
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Zephro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makariel View Post
    There is still the creator-series which has some neat kits. Then then there's always lego technic (which has always been my "home" in the lego universe).
    Oh I know, and the architect series. That stuff is fucking gorgeous, but it's not front and centre. I think there has been a shift in how they market lego now, even though lots of the content is as good if not better than it was.

  10. #910
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    1) There's no such thing as being too old for lego, don't be silly. You can never be too old for jigsaw puzzles and Lego is one of the best forms of relaxation that also gets keeps your mind active. The only problem I have with lego now is that they pretty much got rid of the traditional big red lego box, where all you got was 500 random blocks and you just built whatever you wanted. They've too many sets now where the idea is to follow the instructions and go step by step, obviously great for things like star wars ships and advanced technic cars, but I miss the basics.

    2) Mechano is garbage now. I miss when it was a tray of assorted lengths and shapes of flimsy metal. Now it's just what lego is but worse, at least with a lego town set you get bits you can use however you want. Most mechano these days seems to be custom pieces for that set.
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  11. #911
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Zephro's Avatar
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    Yeah that's the kind of Lego I remember. Then you get all the different sets and heap them into one massive bits box, which you unload on the carpet ruining your mother's plans for the day. But that's a perfect example of a toy that encourages creativity, spatial awareness, mathematical/engineering thinking etc. All children should be given lego, if I were running for Parliament it'd be on my manifesto.

    Whenever I visit my step cousins they have a mix of boys and girls. They give the girls princess dresses and the boys lego and toy guns, that kind of thing just makes me sad. Whenever I'm around at Christmas I make a particular point of a) not talking about football or being actively rude about football b) sitting down with them, though especially the girls, and building cool lego stuff.

  12. #912
    Lesser Hivemind Node Winged Nazgul's Avatar
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    You can shoot the messenger all you like, but ignore the message at your own peril.

  13. #913
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    At christmas myself and my girlfriend sat down to build a lego set. Her two little nieces had been given almost nothing but barbies. They where both amazed and captivated by the lego.

    You're absolutely right, every child should play with lego. They should also bring back the red bucket. I too loved doing what you did, getting my missmash of bricks and dumping them out in a massive pile.
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  15. #915
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Both my sister and I played with legos more or less nonstop.
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  16. #916
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zephro View Post
    That does not look as complicated or as good as the Lego Town stuff. It also strikes me that it ought to just be part of the Lego town stuff. Keep the same look and feel but add a stable or whatever stereotypical "girl" thing you want, but do it within the existing framework. Though even looking at the City stuff now there aren't any actual houses, just firestations and cops and robbers sets. It seems way more gendered than it did when I was a child. Also the categories are all "Something" fighter or conquest etc.
    I think it's about as complicated (roughly) as the other stuff for that age group. It's less complicated than the Star Wars for example, but the Star Wars stuff is aimed a bit older.

    I think you're correct about the city stuff, it is mainly things that do stuff (fire engines etc.) rather than buildings. I suspect this has been driven by the market more than anything else but even so it would be nice to see a few more direct links between some of the themed sets and the Lego Friends set.

    Or possibly even a more female friendly franchise being pushed forward. I'm not sure what this would be though, The Hunger Games?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zephro View Post
    As a side note, I genuinely think lego could be a force for good in these kinds of situations. As I work in programming and my experience of it and university and school was that women don't show an interest in maths/engineering (not ability but interest). I'm sure so much of that could be solved by raising girls on lego, mechano, train sets like we all were.
    I can certainly agree with that.

  17. #917
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gwathdring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaCat View Post
    do they? I think that think doesnt really go beyond "oh dear". like some indigestion. but then again, its one thing to figure out how to improve a situation, its another to carry it out. I think we're heading in the right direction, so hopefully, it's a matter of time. and yes, it will take time. if thats not enough, I suggest improving it on a personal level. thats more than enough, really.
    I don't think this sort of thing helps very much. I think it riles up anyone who's one one side or the other of the video's "vs," but it doesn't cut it for anyone who's really analyzing it carefully and isn't quite punchy enough to wake up anyone who doesn't have much of an opinion.

    It does, however, incite this sort of discussion in turn which is hopefully a little more useful because a wider range of voices chime in, it's not passive consumption, and the result is probably a fair bit more balanced.

    Not sure whether these videos are, on the whole, good or just not bad.
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  18. #918
    Network Hub Makariel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hillbert View Post
    Or possibly even a more female friendly franchise being pushed forward. I'm not sure what this would be though, The Hunger Games?
    Twilight Lego.

    I don't think it needs a 'special' female-friendly lego set (honestly: I find most of the sets aimed at boys rather silly). Just bring back big bags with lego of different sizes and colors (including pink if you have to). When I was little I was e.g. building tons of x-wings, y-wings and tie-fighters without the need for specialized star wars sets. I don't think I was so special that the kids of today wouldn't be able to do such things.
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  19. #919
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makariel View Post
    Twilight Lego.

    I don't think it needs a 'special' female-friendly lego set (honestly: I find most of the sets aimed at boys rather silly). Just bring back big bags with lego of different sizes and colors (including pink if you have to). When I was little I was e.g. building tons of x-wings, y-wings and tie-fighters without the need for specialized star wars sets. I don't think I was so special that the kids of today wouldn't be able to do such things.
    Back in my day, Legos came in bins.

    (They still do.)
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  20. #920
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    That bucket isn't red, get the hell outta here!
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