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  1. #1
    Network Hub Skeletor68's Avatar
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    I'm getting an urge to go back to Diablo 3...

    I know, I know. I feel like I'm being tempted to get back into a bad relationship out of nostalgia here so I'm wondering if anyone is still playing. I'm expecting some chastisement!

    I've seen some recent talk From Blizz about changing drop rates and improving legendaries etc. which to be honest reminds me of how much D2 improved after the LoD expansion.

    If I self-impose some restrictions like only using class-specific gear and sticking to a particular type of build (an all shield barb and a two-hander for instance) and completely ignore the auction house I think I may enjoy it again. I mean the 'unknowable horrors' element of D2 is replaced with a more pantomime villain feel this time around but if the drops are better now I may actually go enjoy it.

    Am I being a nostalgic fool, pining for D2 single player glory days, or has anyone playing seen real improvements in recent patches?

  2. #2
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Lukasz's Avatar
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    don't get it. how can people play that game over and over again. arent you doing the same thing? just your weapons have higher stats and so does enemies....

    how does the game change between first playthrough and tenth?

  3. #3
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    I recently played it and didn't see much different. Perhaps I didn't play it long enough.

    Here was the problem I had though. The world in Diablo 3 is dull compared to Diablo 2. It's just not as fun to run around in D3 as it was in D2. Farming bosses is dull, only having 3 other people with you is dull. None of the bosses in D3 are a patch on things like Baal or Andi runs.

  4. #4
    I reinstalled it because one of my friends talked me into pvping together... I couldn't play for more than 15 minutes. It's still the same game.

  5. #5
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus b0rsuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukasz View Post
    don't get it. how can people play that game over and over again. arent you doing the same thing? just your weapons have higher stats and so does enemies....

    how does the game change between first playthrough and tenth?
    Diablo is not an action game. It's not an RPG game. It's a collectible slot machine game with action and RPG elements. People play it for the same reason they collect stamps. Like in an MMO, it's not the process that's fun, it's the goal (that's supposed to be). There's a carrot dangling in front of your head. Diablo is not played, it's worked on.

    If you want a similar game with high skill challenge and fast action, try Nox, or the "Realm of the Dark God" MMO.
    If you want a game with good story, try Baldur's Gate or Torment.
    If you want high roleplaying factor, I dunno... maybe Wasteland 1. There are other games but I can't name many.

    As for "how does the game change" - Diablo 1 and 2 had a fair bit of randomness in level generation, items, enemies. Diablo 3 made the building blocks of levels much larger and detailed, at the expense of variety.
    pass

  6. #6
    Network Hub Skeletor68's Avatar
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    You're right Lukasz, it doesn't vary a huge amount, but it's fun and helps me relax. Same reason I'll play some Bloodbowl against the AI or just play some multiplayer pub game of KOTH in TF2. You hit a rhythm, it's satisfying and helps me 'zen out'. (On a separate note I'm finding that it is more difficult to properly immerse myself in something like Dishonoured these days just with lots of life madness and lack of time).

    In D3's defence the combat is pretty satisfying and kinetic. I had fun on my first playthrough with the Witch Doctor but the lack of 'sweet loot' compared to D2 meant the replay value just wasn't there. Playing D2 as a Necro and finding that crazy wand that completely buffs your character is really satisfying! D3 tended to be more like here is an item with +10 more strength, better switch over...

    I was never one for intentionall farming even in D2 as I always played singleplayer and never really got all the way through Hell difficulty. Just getting some crazy set or class specific item always made me ooh and ah though!

    Edit: I should turn off the D3 music and play the D2 soundtrack! Should really have thought of doing that earlier...
    Last edited by Skeletor68; 08-03-2013 at 12:57 PM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukasz View Post
    don't get it. how can people play that game over and over again. arent you doing the same thing? just your weapons have higher stats and so does enemies....

    how does the game change between first playthrough and tenth?
    For me, a Diablolike is best when viewed as a complicated multi-objective optimization problem. The main objectives are rate of experience gain, rate of loot gain, and minimizing deaths. A good Diablolike has a lot of variables to tweak, mainly character skills and statistics and equipment statistics. There needs to be a sensible amount of these variables: too few means that the optimization is not interesting, too many means that the optimization is too hard. The game is not played for the fun of actually fighting the enemies (for me, this process should be enjoyable but not require too much concentration or dexterity---I should be able to do it without focusing too much attention to it) but the fun of watching the results of fighting the enemies and decding whether this particular loadout is better than the last one, and tweaking some equipment here and there.

    This can be played for quite a long time because Diablolikes are typically complicated enough so that you never really solve the optimization, you just keep working at it and improving it slowly.
    Irrelevant on further examination of the rest of the thread.

  8. #8
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Malawi Frontier Guard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by b0rsuk View Post
    Diablo is not an action game. It's not an RPG game. It's a collectible slot machine game with action and RPG elements.
    Quote Originally Posted by NathanH
    For me, a Diablolike is best when viewed as a complicated multi-objective optimization problem.
    Ha, look at those nerds.

    Anyway, why would you go back to a game so soon after you finished it? That's what crazy people do. Diablo 3 is a good game and I played up to Inferno with a couple of friends and I had a blast, but now I'm done with it. There is really no need to play it over and over again and that's fine, no matter what so-called Diablo 2 "veterans" might say or what direction Blizzards patching policy has taken.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skeletor68
    If I self-impose some restrictions like only using class-specific gear and sticking to a particular type of build (an all shield barb and a two-hander for instance)
    Sounds like a good way to make yourself feel miserable. The entire point of the skill system of Diablo 3 is switching out and experimenting with builds as you unlock new abilities. Maybe you should try playing Path of Exile.

  9. #9
    Network Hub Skeletor68's Avatar
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    Hey Malawi. Switching out skills is actually fine. A lot of people don't like it but I actually do for the most part. Not having to hold on to skill points for ages just to wait for Frenzy or something is way more fun. Perfectly happy with the way it lets you build some synergy between skills/tactics.

    The items are the crucial difference so if I limit what I can use on each character it will feel less like I'm just swapping stats if that makes any sense and if they have since improved the types of items that drop (i.e. more interesting, not necessarily more powerful) then I think I'll have fun.

    I think self-imposed restrictions can work well in some games like forcing yourself to not fast-travel or turning off some indicators, reticules etc. in Far Cry 3. It won't make me miserable by any means, it will just force to me to play it in a more interesting way I think.

    I tried some PoE already and felt that the combat was a little floaty but will definitely be heading back to it at some point.

    Edit: NathanH that is a really accurate and interesting explanation of the game, thank you!
    Last edited by Skeletor68; 08-03-2013 at 03:14 PM.

  10. #10
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Faldrath's Avatar
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    Diablo 3 hasn't changed on its fundamentals - it still sort of forces you to use the AH once you arrive at a certain gear level if you want to find upgrades. If you wait for drops, it will only happen every once in a soulcrushing long while.

    That being said, ever since the original lead designer stepped out, they've been taking small steps to make drops more interesting. The latest patch added a few crafting recipes that can be actually useful, and you can spend millions of gold on them instead of the auction house if you prefer, and they have gone on record saying that they do want to make the AH more "optional" than mandatory.

    Still, right now I'm enjoying Path of Exile much more than I expected. The world is more interesting and mysterious, you don't have to wait until Inferno before the game gets properly challenging (even in the very first act, bosses will trouble you if you're not prepared), the art design is really good.

    Combat gets rather fun at mid-to-late levels, and that's PoE's main issue: gameplay in the beginning is rather boring because it takes a while until you get more useful skills, and leveling isn't very rewarding (since the passive skill tree is more of an investment in the future than instant gratification, like Diablo's skill/runes).

    But if you find a build you like and have the patience to play it until level 20-30 or so, I think you'll find PoE much more rewarding than Diablo. Gameplay is more fun and challenging, and it feels less like a lottery (although, of course, it still *is* a lottery).

    edit: PoE is also being updated weekly, so it's changing and getting better rather fast.

  11. #11
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus b0rsuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NathanH View Post
    For me, a Diablolike is best when viewed as a complicated multi-objective optimization problem. The main objectives are rate of experience gain, rate of loot gain, and minimizing deaths. A good Diablolike has a lot of variables to tweak, mainly character skills and statistics and equipment statistics.
    I forgot about that bit. But a ton of people just copy a build from a forum or a wiki. They don't discuss the merits of build A or build B, or different skills. They just say "link me a good build for paladin", etc.

    Do try the turn-based graphical roguelike game ToME4. It should suit your taste. Unlike most roguelikes, this one is built around having several lives left.
    http://te4.org/
    pass

  12. #12
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    Have not played much since 1.04/1.05.

    You have the ability to up the difficulty with Monster Power levels.

    Paragon Levels to give something else to grind exp for... kinda like grinding to 99 in Diablo 2, which some people like.

    They have changed abilities and runes to balance them out and make underused ones useful. I like the ability to be able to change quickly and experiment.

    I don't play it to where I am playing the item gear end game. D2 I did this kinda, but was more of the goal to hit 99. Think i got to the 80s at most.

  13. #13
    Network Hub DetCord's Avatar
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    Who exactly are you going to play with?

    http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Dia...ics-44420.html

    http://www.xfire.com/games/d3

    I suppose a private match is the way to go, but D3 developed Cancer awhile back, and its pretty obvious its terminal now.

  14. #14
    Network Hub Skeletor68's Avatar
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    I'm back playing Diablo 2 right now...

    Anyone got any recommendations for a weapon class on a two-hander Barbarian build? I kinda like the idea of running around with a giant hammer...

  15. #15
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus bonkers's Avatar
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    Tried going back to it a few days ago. Still didn't see the point of playing it once you reach Inferno.
    Path of Exile on the other hand has me coming back every now and then and I always enjoy my time with it.
    (Firefall: bug shot) // (PS2: bobby is going home)
    -remove spaces-

  16. #16
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    Maybe if it comes out on the Wii U I "might" play it again.
    Which probably will never happen.

  17. #17
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Hypernetic's Avatar
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    I would wait for the itemization update.

  18. #18
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    I've played D3 for a few (5-7) hours a week every week since release, more or less, so I've been through all the developments. I don't have much to contribute beyond what the good folks here have already posted, but I'll just say this:

    If you want to have fun blasting demons for 30 minutes a session, it's great. It's not a great itemization game (though self-found is infinitely more rewarding than anything else in the game) and the combat isn't the most engaging activity in the world, but it's fun to put on the sports match of your choice, or listen to your significant other drone on about their day, while you turn baddies into bloody pulp.

    If you're looking for something more substantial, waiting for the expansion or at least the itemization update, as said above, might make the most sense, though I'm not sure how those things will fix the myriad issues people seem to complain about.

    Anyway, if you (or anyone else) has any additional questions about the game, I'd be happy to chime in. I largely lurk but this is one thing where I can actually give a (hopefully useful) firsthand perspective.

    Side note: I tried PoE and I honestly can't figure out how it's more enjoyable than D3. A matter of personal taste, I guess, but I can't see what people prefer about it. It's basically the same filling with a differently-flavored coating.

  19. #19
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Hypernetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan View Post
    I've played D3 for a few (5-7) hours a week every week since release, more or less, so I've been through all the developments. I don't have much to contribute beyond what the good folks here have already posted, but I'll just say this:

    If you want to have fun blasting demons for 30 minutes a session, it's great. It's not a great itemization game (though self-found is infinitely more rewarding than anything else in the game) and the combat isn't the most engaging activity in the world, but it's fun to put on the sports match of your choice, or listen to your significant other drone on about their day, while you turn baddies into bloody pulp.

    If you're looking for something more substantial, waiting for the expansion or at least the itemization update, as said above, might make the most sense, though I'm not sure how those things will fix the myriad issues people seem to complain about.

    Anyway, if you (or anyone else) has any additional questions about the game, I'd be happy to chime in. I largely lurk but this is one thing where I can actually give a (hopefully useful) firsthand perspective.

    Side note: I tried PoE and I honestly can't figure out how it's more enjoyable than D3. A matter of personal taste, I guess, but I can't see what people prefer about it. It's basically the same filling with a differently-flavored coating.
    I just can't get passed the F2P shit.

    As for the itemization update, I'm waiting for it to start playing D3 again myself. My Barb is at a point where any upgrade for him is probably not going to drop and would cost me a billion gold or at least a few hundred million. I don't have the motivation to farm that kind of gold, especially not when 99.9% of items that drop are barely worth more than they vendor for on the AH.

    I've already got several decent hellfire rings as well.

  20. #20
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    I've played entirely self-found (I don't even know how to use the AH... I've clicked the button once on accident and that's it) and am geared up to do somewhere between MP4 and MP6 on each character. I'm more or less in the same boat as you in terms of upgrades, but I just find fun in using underused/suboptimal skills to kill stuff.

    I've yet to do any ubers -- the drop rate concept is really annoying (make them drop fragments, instead of making it a percentage chance, ugh), and seeing as I play entire by myself, the game isn't doing me any favors in that regard. I could probably do them at MP3 handily, but eh, that whole thing just doesn't seem that fun. I do have about 25 Infernal Machines laying around, though. That and Hellfire Rings are pretty underwhelming ever since they nerfed the proc on the PTR.

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