RPS Impressions: Warhammer Online Beta

This is not a review. It also isn’t a verdict, or a judgement, or a rating, or anything of the sort. WAR isn’t released yet, there’ll likely be a fair few changes in the final game, elements of it won’t be up and running properly until the servers are jam-packed, and without a doubt none of us have played enough of it to make a really definite judgement. Apart from Jim, who knows full well he won’t be playing it until they put some spaceships in.

What it is a discussion. We’ve been on the WAR closed beta for a few weeks now, and it’s certainly a game we’ve desperately wanted to talk about here. And not simply because we’re British, hence playing Warhammer is fairly synonymous with puberty for us. Also because, well, it’s potentially the most interesting MMO this year. Despite… ah, but we’re getting ahead of ourselves. Let’s see what we’ve got to say…

Edit – a little context. The European closed beta differed significantly to the US closed beta in that players were split onto different servers dependent on their language. The net result was four fairly quiet servers instead of one busy one, and that mean the PvP/RvR elements of the game were barely operable. That’s why we don’t discuss ’em as much as we do the PvE and Public Quests. If you think we shouldn’t be talking about the game at all given that, well, that’s your prerogative, but we disagree. We’re writing about what the game’s European publisher presented us with. Additionally, WAR is far from being just a PvP game – the PvE is substantial and omnipresent, and the reason many people want to play the game. And again – this is not a review. It’s just a cheerful, informal discussion of our experiences on the closed beta.

Jim: Come one, come all, back from your tea and masturbation, to discuss Warhammer: Rage Of Eckoning! First, let’s talk about how much we’ve played. I have created three characters, and played nothing
John: I’ve played a High Elf to 10, a Chaos to 8 and an Orc to 15.
Alec: I’ve made a few characters to poke about with, mostly on the Destruction side
Kieron: I’ve played my Witch Elf up to Level 14 or so. A couple of other really low alts. And some messing around with the level 31 stuff. I haven’t done much of the PvP or RvR stuff yet. Those areas have been quiet when I’ve been playing, it seems.
Jim: John, how do you feel about playing another MMO? Your first since City Of Heroes?
John: I’ve played a bunch of WoW between the two. But it’s an interesting thing. It’s a comfortable place to be, but sometimes I feel like WAR was a bit too comfortable.
John: WAR is good. It’s really, really good. I think they’ve done a stunning job. But it’s also the same as another game.
Jim: What game?
John: WoW.
Jim: Goodness, how dare you.
John: I know! Who’d have thought this would come up?
Alec: They are genuinely trying to take that model further, though
Jim: I’m sure it’s completely different.
Alec: It tries quite hard to make its classes distinct, and your every action is that much more tied into the ongoing struggle
John: That’s true. And the endgame is very different. And the Public Quests, and the instanced Scenarios, and the whole RvR thing – that’s all different. But it feels like a different topping on the same ice cream.

Jim: Alec, how is this making you want to play MMOs again? Aren’t you burned out after months of WoW?
Alec: I took a while to click with WAR precisely because of the initial crushing familiarity, but after a while you pick up on how it’s more focused on giving you what’s fun, not what’s a pain in the arse
Jim: The familiarity is a good thing though, right? In the same way that MMO’s ease of play and comparative lack of skill demands are a good thing? Get people playing…
Alec: I’ve yet to decide entirely about this. There are times when I want to throttle everyone involved for being so cynical, but other times when I entirely appreciate that yes, it’s bringing people in, and is an entry point to hopefully experimenting with stuff outside of their WoW comfort-grind zone. But at the same time, it turns some people off, and it paints them into a corner. Plus it’s depressing that what’s likely to be the biggest MMO of the year – and the biggest step-forward MMO of the year – is hanging on to someone else’s coat-tails
Jim: =But does the game offer enough new shit to keep time-hungry beasts like me interested?
John: I think its physical similarity has an astounding effect on you. A housemate walked in and said, “How come you’re playing WoW again?”
Alec: No, it’s not going to appeal to anyone who’s completely done with the WoW model. It goes beyond it in many ways, but you don’t ever think you’re playing a different sort of game

Jim: Let’s get away from that for a bit, and assume everyone knows what they’re getting themselves in for on that count. John, can you explain those public quests for me.
John: Right, well, you’re toddling along, probably killing ten of something, and then you’re alerted to a quest that’s happening in the area. You can join in without joining a group (although there’s a very smart system that lets you join an impromptu group with others taking part, should you wish to), and what you contribute to the push defines the XP and rewards you receive. They’re generally three stages, and often end in killing a powerful boss, and they’re really rather a lot of fun. They are, without question, WAR’s best feature.
Jim: Alec – public quests?
Alec: The public quests do make a big difference
John: They really do. Every MMO from now on is going to do them.
Alec: It terms of it’s what you want to play a fantasy MMO for – big fight, nice reward, grouping, but without any of the hassle. It’s just there, and instant, no talking required. You get your big monster in about 10 minutes
Jim: That sounds like a great way of getting away from the “massively single-player ” trap
Alec: My concern is it’s overwhelming the game a little. That’s what everyone piles into, and the best rewards only come from doing them multiple times.
Jim: That’s something for patch/tweaks though, right?
John: It really is getting away from that. Mucking in to a general effort – that’s a great feeling.
Alec: But at the same time it’s organically bringing about group play, in the very clever way of dangling a personal carrot in front of you
John: It pushes you into teamplay in other ways too. You’re given quests that are simply to take part in a Scenario.
Alec: That may be at the expense of the standard quests, though. Possibly the RvR stuff too, though it was hard to get a good sense of that from the stuff we were playing a couple of weeks back

[Kieron returns from his tea and masturbation]
Kieron: Hullo!
Jim: Kieron Gillen, we’re talking public quests
John: The standard quests, that I’ve played across all races, are pretty poor. Kill 10 of this, gather 5 of those, and then go tell that guy.
Jim: Girren: public quests?
Kieron: That’s the thing – I agree entirely with the guys that the public quests are the really nifty PvE component.
Kieron: I mean, I’m a level four Witch-elf and I’m already involved in a mass brawl with a bloody dragon.
John: When I spoke to Mythic and asked them what would be the thing that stood out, they said PQs.
Kieron: Yes, but the game is being hyped as a RvR thing. We haven’t done much of that, man.
Kieron: Something Tim E said to me seems relevant – with Warhammer, to have the most fun with it, you have to kind of go with the flow.
Jim: Do you think RvR will matter to the majority of gamers?
Kieron: I suspect it may actually.
John: I think it will have to. The game passionately funnels you into taking part in it. And with a level cap at 40, it’s what the game becomes about.
Kieron: Which is what I mean – rather than in WoW where at a similar part of the game I generally stuck my head down and carried on doing my own thing
Alec: I think the PQs are pushing you into it to a significant extent
John: They very quickly set PQs in RvR zones.
Kieron: In Warhammer, you see what’s happening. Is there a big RvR scrap going down? I’ll go get involved. passing a PQ on the way to something else? Well, why not muck in.
Alec: Yeah, that “well I’m here anyway, and I don’t have to anything other than start hitting things” sentiment pervades
Jim: Will making the MMO *more* multiplayer, be the lesson of Warhammer?
Kieron: The ONLY WAR thing

Alec: It’s the reason it’s important, and not simply A WoW Clone
John: Yeah, it really means that. You CAN skin animals, but really you’re meant to be hitting stuff.
Kieron: (Hell, I was amazed there was crafting in it at all. And I’m also disappointed that Witch Elves can’t skin elves to make clothes out of it)
John: I think it’s going to be a huge success primarily because it apes familiar MMOs enough that people instinctively know what they’re doing, but it also is a game that’s deliberately built around that endgame world of epic battle. Rather than sticking it on the end so the hardcore have something to do.

Alec: My concern with the PQs and the RvR both is that it really messes up the game’s geography. It’s not a world filled with events – it’s more like wandering around a science museum, and stopping off at the exhibits that have pushy-buttons and flickering lights. It’s really unconvincing as a place – it’s these pockets of activities within their own weird, insular bubbles, but far too close too each other. There’s really no sense that you can explore.
John: I didn’t find that at all. I found the PQs occuring naturally between towns, or in contested zones.
Kieron: I disagree too actually, though I know what Alec gets at. Thing is, for me, it’s not meant to be a world. It’s meant to be a warzone. Those pockets of areas on the maps are individual skirmishes going on, and in terms of giving character to individual conflicts – at least for the Dark Elf stuff – it does it well.
John: There’s these old ruins at the bottom of a hill, near a town in the Greenskin area, and on the border of a RvR zone. It has an epic PvE PQ going on, occasionally with enemy players getting mixed up in. It’s an awesome site, and feels like it makes sense to be there.
Alec: That’s the thing – you can’t wander anywhere without some message popping up on screen. It feels artificial to that extent. I want to feel like I’ve found this stuff, not that it’s dropped in my lap.
Kieron: Like – say – this whole forest area off the main path where the elves are counterattacking via these traps, and there’s a low level skirmish going on between the two. perpetually, as it’s a standard PvE MMO, but decently enough.
Alec: It’s not a critical failing, but it’s made it hard for me to get a sense of place.
Kieron: I’ll give you that those messages can be intrusive. But I think the alternative is worse. “Where’s the public quest again?”
Alec: I’d make them further apart and shown on the map, or shown on a map once you speak to an obvious NPC in town
Kieron: Wow – lots more walking. That’s the thing – I like its tightness. I like things like not having to kneel and eat food to recover health.
John: All praise the super-fast healing!
Alec: No, not lots more walking, just a bit more breathing space
Kieron: Stuff like that absolutely stopped me playing WoW. I have a very low threshold for boredom.
Alec: Yes, it’s identified a shedload of WoW annoyances to get rid of – whilst retaining plenty of others

John: What about the Tome of Knowledge? That was the other Big New Thing, and was the thing I was most looking forward to.
Kieron: The Tome’s neat, but I honestly haven’t used it much.
Alec: I’ve used the Tome to check quest details, and that’s it
John: I’m really let down by the Tome. For me it’s become one of those irritating things that flashes on the screen that I just click on to clear it.
Kieron: What’s it actually *meant* to do?
John: And it makes getting at quest details a real fiddle. I assume a hotkey for going straight to quests will be added eventually. It was meant to be this alternative to RvR.
Alec: It’s an awful lot of text for a game that’s about cartoon characters stabbing each other
John: It was there for the person who wanted to SP the game.
Kieron: Right.
John: It would provide a coherent narrative, and offer its own quests.
Kieron: It’s a step on from Middle-Earth’s similar thing, I think, in that way
John: But I’ve not had a single tome quest offered. There are 10,000 Tome Unlocks in the game, and they’re fun to get, but then a confusion mess to understand. I think that’s what will happen – the Tome will become a fiddly quest journal, with an achievements page.
Kieron: It’s a very big achievement page. Anyone got a favourite character class? I like my Witch Elf a lot. Which surprises me, as I despise elves.
John: Okay, I have one other worry, and it’s that question.
Jim: Has anyone got to the squig tank? that sounds amazing
Alec: Yeah, I’ve enjoyed my Chaos Magus, though the floaty disc isn’t floaty enough. I get stumped by small hills and puddles.
John: I played as a High Elf first, and it was just so dull. I thought the game was doomed. I played as a Chaos, and I thought: meh. Very standard MMO. I then played as an Orc, and I thought: Woo! Best MMO ever!
Jim: Tell me a bit more about the classes – is there anything specifically unusual?
Alec: Most of the classes are a bit more hybrid than you’d have expected. Still fit into the standard boxes, but generally feel a lot less like you’re just Tank or DPS or whatever.
Kieron: Yeah. The thing with the classes is *there is a lot of them*. And they’re not just the same with the names filed off.
Jim: Why are orcs so good John?
John: It seems like a squillion times more passion went into that zone. You’re immediately firing yourself off Orcapults to reach distant castle roofs. You’re having these really funny quest givers talk in grunts. You’re a real character.
Kieron: I haven’t played the Dwarves, but I’ve heard similar things
John: Whereas a High Elf is like being a bloody librarian. “Go and find 8 of this plant, for no reason.”
Alec: The comedy races were always going to be easier to achieve that with. Which WoW sort of failed at by lumping Gnomes in with Dwarves and Trolls with Orcs in its starting zones
Kieron: And I really enjoyed the DE. Even the “Kill X” quests were often turned into something a little more interesting. Like – say – the one where I collected heads and stuck them on spikes in front of an enemy base to try and lure a hero out to fight.
John: There’s an Orc quest similar to that. It makes a big difference.
Alec: There’s a lot of head-pole action. I’ve done that almost half a dozen times
Kieron: Yeah – I used it as an example. there’s certainly been mroe pole-head sticking.
John: But even if it’s just an aesthetic on the end of a kill quest, it makes it feel like narrative.
Kieron: Yes – exactly.
Alec: It was funny the first time, etc. I just hope they can sustain that kind of thinking without running out of ideas. Having seen some of the l30 stuff, I’m not convinced yet, but there’s much I’ve not done yet.
Kieron: You know, I’m going to go and roll a new High Elf alt after this and see what I make of it
Jim: Speaking of aesthetics – how good looking is it?
Kieron: It’s acceptable.
John: It looks like a polished WoW. There’s no escaping that comparison.
Alec: you stop noticing what it looks like – it’s like a genetic memory of playing an MMO. Though the Inevitable City looks incredible, if horribly confusing to navigate
John: The Inevitable City is utterly brilliant.
Kieron: I haven’t been yet. I may go there instead of forming a HE.
John: It’s a stunning piece of design. Visually wonderful.

Is this meant to be in here?

[Alec leaves on a secret mission. It may or may not involve milk.]
Jim: Anyone got something else to add? We can conclude otherwise
John: One thing. I want to make it clear that this is one of those occasions where you’re deducting marks from 10, rather than adding them on from 0. They’ve managed it – they’re the first to create an MMO that compares to, and goes beyond, WoW. And that’s an absolutely massive deal that shouldn’t get lost in the (very valid) nitpicking.
Kieron: Yeah. God knows how it’s going to do long term, but given a choice between the two, I’d play this.
John: I think it’s best summed up as: they’ve created the WoW that Kieron wants to play.
Kieron: And I do wonder how much I’ll play it – after all, I’m the one of us who *didn’t* burn out on WoW. I didn’t like it enough to burn out on it.
John: Kieron I use as an example of someone’s who entirely immune to grind hypnosis.
Kieron: Heh. of course, it’s also the one MMO I’ll never review due to conflict of interest stuff (He’s writing a comic set in Warhammer at the moment. Out September, Comics peeps – Ed). To conclude: What’s your favourite chaos god?
John: God.
Kieron: Slanesh.
John: What’s a funny answer to attribute to Alec?
Kieron: The Horned Rat



  1. Eschatos says:

    I’m really liking the game, except for one aspect of public quests. Almost no one gets loot, and the choosing of who gets it is too random. Out of the 30 or so times I’ve done PQs I’ve gotten loot twice, even though I’ve been the top ranked person a bunch of times. Everyone rolls a random number between 1 and 1000, and higher scoring people get bonuses. The highest you can get is +400 for getting first place. That seems a bit low to me. Maybe a +600, and higher bonuses for everyone else as well.

  2. Kieron Gillen says:

    I suspect the PQ’s will sort themselves out in actual play – it’s okay when there’s “relatively” small numbers of people doing them. When you go into the mass melees, that’s where it falls apart.

    Alec’s suggestion was that everyone who does anything at all significant in a PQ should get something, even if it’s just a healing potion. While abstractly you’re earning the reputation points, going through a fight and getting nothing in the treasure chest is a big of a bummer.


  3. Butler` says:

    No one seems to have commented on the long term issues relating to PQs – especially if they play such a large role in minute to minute play.

    Time goes on, two years down the line for instance, character base matures (most people are high level), new subscriptions slow… who do you PQ with?

    Take a look through the lower areas of WoW even on med/high population servers and you’ll struggle to meet 1/2 people in your level bracket.

  4. Ginger Yellow says:

    What Zeno said, really. I wish PC devs would stop trying to top WoW and do something different. You can do accessible and innovative, so long as you abandon the idea that an MMO involves going around doing kill/fetch quests, levelling and loot. Consequently I’m really looking forward to the first real generation of console MMOs (I know, I know) – not the DC Universe type ones, but things like APB. Make the game about the interaction between the players and between the players and the environment, not about bloody quests and raids. Or, hell, do something like Europe in Ruins for CoH, where familiar action takes place in a larger universe that you and your allies affect. Eve’s the closest I’ve encountered so far, but I don’t have the time or energy to dedicate to it.

  5. Iain says:

    The thing that makes me think I’m not going to play WAR is this comment from Alec:

    It’s not a world filled with events – it’s more like wandering around a science museum, and stopping off at the exhibits that have pushy-buttons and flickering lights. It’s really unconvincing as a place – it’s these pockets of activities within their own weird, insular bubbles, but far too close too each other. There’s really no sense that you can explore.

    Whatever you think about WoW as an MMORPG, one of its biggest attractions for me (and I’ve been playing WoW pretty consistently for three years now) is that it’s a diverse, yet coherent game world. It has a sense of place, and you can derive a lot of enjoyment simply from wandering around and taking in the sites and the ambience. If that’s missing from WAR, there’s no way I’m going to play it.

  6. Paul Barnett says:

    Warhammer for the win!

  7. Tei says:

    Great review.
    Interesting because is saying thing, no one say, that will be interesting in 8 months. Very honest and deep review of the game.
    See you ingame.

  8. Gylfi says:

    You guys did not get the first thing about the ToK.

  9. Rudolf says:

    paul, communicate more with GOA. To use the words of Starsky “Do it”…”Do it”…”Do it” …now!

  10. Dean says:

    Regarding acronyms, I’ve been playing WoW for 3 years and still don’t know what RvR is. Yes, Realm vs Realm. So what the hell does that mean?

  11. Azhrarn says:

    think PvP only with the addition that stuff you do also has an effect on the status of your entire side in the war. To translate to WoW: if you win a battleground match you get honor for yourself, in an RvR setting your entire side would also accumulate points thanks to victories of its players to help unlock the enemies capital for Siege warfare. Which is where all the best stuff is available. (and it’s cool to sack your enemies main city)

  12. Noc says:

    And the fact that there’s no real RvR mechanic in WoW is sort of why it’s a big deal in WAR.

  13. Dean says:

    Cheers Azhrarn.
    I knew it wasn’t in WoW and so it was one of the big selling points but very few people seem to bother to explain what it is. Maybe I’ve just entirely missed it

  14. Gorgeras says:

    If that’s the real Paul Barnett above and not a doppleganger, don’t let him post again unless he explains the real reasons for why Mythic went back to GOA. No one is going to buy that ‘lessons were learned’ bollocks anymore.

  15. Subjective effect says:

    Sadly the WoW fanboys will stick with it because they have invested too much time with it. WoW has shown the world that MMOs CAN be very popular, but the popularity could be the death of other, superior fantasy MMOs.

  16. Dan Enright says:


  17. WarhammerPlayer says:

    Meh, if only mechanics were the only reason to judge an MMO. I’m not concerned about the bits that were copied from WoW, after all, Warcraft is a Warhammer ripoff itself… I’m concerned about the bits that were not properly copied from WoW:

    Client Prediction Smoothness: Whatever Blizzard touches simply feels smooth. This is absolutely not the case with the Warhammer client. Texture Streaming, asynchronous player animations, slow reactions, interface lag, etc.

    Server Smoothness: NPC integration into the world is very very poor. Although the do the same things that WoW NPCs do, they just don’t seem to be working nearly as well as those. Attack ranges seem to be completely unpredictable, animations for NPCs are entirely asynchronous with their actions, etc.

    There is something wrong at the very base of WAR: It seems based on inadequate technology which unfortunately completely kills my game experience. I love the license, I love the idea of the game, but the quality of execution simply can’t hold up to my expectations.

  18. Ian says:

    Public quests, or something like them, might be a way to solve the problem in WoW of finding a group as and when you need to. I dunno whether the Looking for Group/Looking for More function is broken or whether people find it a bit finicky, but either way it doesn’t work. I have more success when trying to find a group because nobody I know is on just asking people in general chat.

  19. keegan says:

    Great to read your views on Warhammer, i really hope its a great game and sells well. But to be fair it does sound like you have just been playing in the start zones.

    Two questions i have would be:

    Is it gonna be a good sustainable game for the many potential casual gamers that will end up bankrolling the game?

    And how will the end game content stretch out for the “Hardcore gamers”(as they like to call themselves) Who although they dont bankroll the game will be the minority that really shape the public’s perception of weather the game stands up to scratch or not?

  20. Nissl says:

    As far as your endgame question, Keegan, I like to use Rob Pardo’s (Blizzard lead designer) idea of a feature set of different activities. WoW has crafting/dailies/5-man/10-man/25-man/arena/4 BGs. That’s enough diversity to keep a lot of people playing.

    For casual leveling/alting, WoW has two factions with three starter areas; each faction pretty much has a single path to the top starting about 1/3 of the way through, though since the leveling changes you can skip a few areas.

    For endgame AoC had, um, a couple five-mans, two buggy 25-mans and eventually the garbage siege system. All of which were in only a couple of zones. There is still no basic honor system for PVP if I understand correctly. For leveling, there is exactly one frickin’ path, and even that runs out of quests at times.

    WAR at endgame is going to have crafting (limited)/tome completion/6-man/guild progression/18 Tier 4 BGs/open RVR with warfronts. The grind for HC players is renown ranks, which are going to take an insane amount of PVP at the high end. I’d bet they’ll introduce a new dungeon and set of PVE gear every 3-6 months too. It also sounds like actually capturing a capital city is going to take a few months to happen anywhere. That’s the design goal anyway.

    For casual leveling, they have two factions with 3 unique areas that seem to have enough content to extend all the way to the cap. It actually seems to be a bit of a problem relative to WoW’s eventual faction merging; only EVC RVR was going in earnest on the preview servers.

    It’s pretty obvious that WAR’s feature set is going to put a lot of stress on Open RVR to carry the game in the medium-term. I like the odds that it will work, but anyone who plays enough to cap quickly, finds they don’t like open RVR, and doesn’t have a good guild is going to burn out right quick at endgame. I would like to see them mix in a few 12-mans or at least 12-man bosses in an open dungeon to give the PVE a little boost. I think they can and should compete for the semi-casual WoW crowd who do some BG’s and run Kara all the time, and you can just do a lot more on the PVE end with that many people.

  21. H says:

    Having been playing the beta for a loooong while, I can agree with most of your comments, pretty much. I actually won’t be playing after beta ends, purely because I don’t think it’s different enough to be a better game (for me) and because I don’t want to PVP – and let’s face it, that’s what the game is about.

    However, the single race I have enjoyed the most is the Dwarf. Their initial areas are, in my opinion, the best in a fantasy MMO yet. It’s full of atmosphere and attention to detail, from the cheers when the cannon roars to the constant struggle against the greenskin incursion.

    The only thing that will draw me into the game once beta ends will be if a lot of people I know take the plunge. And so far it doesn’t look likely.

  22. Zeev says:

    An important point to make. WAR is not copying WoWs art style. WoW has always copied Warhammer imagery. There is a good reason for this. Warcraft was originally meant to be a Warhammer game when blizz made that first RTS. Games Workshop pulled the plug though. So blizz tinkered with the story and kept the art of Warhammer. If you dont believe me look at a old Warhammer game miniature and any image from WoW. They look remarkably similer. WAR had a good reason to go with this art style; because this stylized style is Warhammer. Also truly Warhammer lore puts Warcraft lore to shame, just by sheer amount and detail.

  23. Adjudicator says:

    Actually, Warcrafts looks and Warhammers looks have never been alike; its the one thing thats been the MOST different between the two games. Warcrafts visuals have always been more light-hearted, cartoony and colorful, whereas Warhammer has always had extremely detailed miniatures and a more GRIMDARK feel, not to say they lacked color, but the two styles are really nearly opposite ends of the fantasy art spectrum.

  24. JM says:

    The game’s obviously heavily focused on PVP/RVR, so what do you do? Spend your entire review talking about quests and World of Warcraft.

    Nice one.

    By the way, the graphics seem to be an attempt to copy the tabletop design (in terms of character/npc models) and the various amounts of artwork that surround the Warhammer world (in terms of environment).

    But no, that makes it “WoW clone”. Sigh.

    p.s. let’s not pass judgement on how a game looks till it’s out and you can actually change graphical options hey!

  25. KErensky says:

    Once you see a windmill in the distance burning, and on fire, you’ll know that its not just a WoW Clone. When you participate and stumble in on your first PQ, you’ll be blown away.

    And when you run along and enter an RVR zone, throwing you into a battle, you’ll love it.

    RVR was something DAOC did, and it did it well, these are the same guys. I played through the horrible TOA days, until Mythic eventually redeemed itself.

    THESE guys know how to do PVP. They’re the best in the industry.

  26. korbinn says:

    the most annoying things i found were.
    1. no real avatars its skulls or birds
    2. 1 second global cooldown on all spells starts after a long cast and not at the start so you cant go 3 second cast instant cast.
    3. AI on the mobs was really bad and needs fixing (mobs run away from you when you attack)
    4. rvr instances need to cross server the que times are hours long at times
    5. lag in keeps and siges ( lots of people taking a town=lag) in the beta it did atleast and i ahve a nice computer (3gig ram 2.8 duel core 512mb radion vid card)
    6.the quest helper needs a revamp its not bad it can just be annoying when it tells you that you have a quest to turn in and you dont.. because the quest turn in is on the other side of a flight path
    7. the public quest roll system needs to be a little more baced on contribution points and not the roll.
    8. i played a sorceress and they are a crap class if you want to deal any real damage you need to be at 100% dark magic and your going to kill yourself not only that but any melee class will rape you

    Now for what i liked because i hate to be 100% negative
    1. public quests- the idea is awsome and its well done with a slight exception to the rolls
    2. siges- although lagis an issue if you get a smaller group of 5-8 vs 5-8 it can be a lot of fun
    3. you cant walk through a player. i think this is more real and does help tanks block for healers and casters
    4.every zone seems to have a pvp area so you never have to go far to change from pve to pvp
    5. EXP is gained in pvp and its not small amounts so if you hate to quest you never have to you can gain just as much exp in pvp
    6. no twinks due to exp gains in pvp
    7.you can change or dye all of your gear so you have your own look not like WOW where everyone looks the same
    8. when you die you just run back allive from town

    i hope i answered a question or 2 for somone its a good game but it comes off as choppy and simple, i dont see its current form keeping anyone interested for more than a month it needs a lot of work still, i hope the real release is better

  27. KlewJ says:

    I personally believe WAR is going to be great for the mature players, which I could barely ever find in WoW, I mean cmon if you look at it, WoW is just a big mash up of previous fantasy table games, books, and games. I cancelled my WoW subscription for WAR, never going back to WoW I have had enough of it, blizzard has failed to give the players what they want.

  28. Jack P. says:

    I think its amazing that the comparison between WAR and WoW is continuing who cares all you graphics whores are like it looks like WoW but I guess its a matter of personal opinion Ive played WoW, DAoC and Galaxies and RF-online and god knows how many other MMORPGs in the past and Ultima busted my cherry so as the evolution of MMO gaming has changed how we communicate with the world around us maybe we should just shut up and play the game and stop sucking on Blizzard’s teet. This game is made for those who want to get to the bashin as quickly as possible its not for the 13 yr old kids who spew chuck norris jokes every 20 secs that is what in fact turned me off to WoW in the first place it wasnt that the original gamers in warcraft were mature because not the case its only now after several years of gaming and the fact that most of the older players of wow just grew up with the game and WAR makes them step out of that comfort zone and scares them a little. The game is not for MMO players its gather Tabletop players and shift them from the lore of the tabletop game and make them share that lore and knowledge of the IP with other tabletop geeks because like these ole boys said up top depending on where you are from Warhammer and adolesence go hand in hand for some of us this whole idea of an Warhammer MMo has been around longer than Blizzards idea for Wow but like before GW pulled the plug on that one as well warcraft was a major rip of warhammer and hell even D&D didnt say orcws were green until after GW said so so for those of you who dont like the game great for you. Those of you who liked playing the Beta and have a love of the Big Uns and Da Bosses let us raise our sharp bitz and charge da gatez

  29. TastyCakes says:

    The wow debate will rage on but when i played the game for 3days i never thought to myself comparing wow just thought well it reminds me of wow but im having fun

  30. Lord Wehrmacht says:

    Im curious… how do you do a beta review of the game where in many situations not everyone even bothered to explore the content at all. In many situations I read that so – and – so didnt do it much etc… isnt that the point of a review?

  31. Alec Meer says:

    Dear visiting WAR fans:

    This is not a review, as is stated at the start of the piece. It’s just a freeform discussion of our personal impressions of the beta. Moreover, if you read the article, you’ll see we’re mostly very, very positive about WAR.

    Please try not to let your annoyance about ‘WAR’ and ‘WOW’ appearing in the same sentence blind you to that. We think WAR is great, regardless of any similarities it might have to other games.

  32. Warskar says:

    well i think it more of a PvP game than ever.. which is awsome!!! i cant think negative by this game.. only the classes i feel is going to be nerfed in some way over another when it starts.. and ive never played WoW.. i think i know why… Every1 comparing WoW to WAR because they need something to talk about…

  33. Keaton says:

    @ Korbinn My rig is 2.4 dual core, 4 gigs ram, win xp pro 64 bit edition, and a 320 eVga 8800gts and it runs flawlessly. Is your OS 32 bit? That could be hindering you quite a bit. And most of the issues that you posted about are the main ones they are looking into before the final release. Mythic has planned a patch before launch.

    Also.. @ the WoW Comments… I played wow for 5 years since closed beta, I find this game hardly similar to WoW, maybe that is just me =/

  34. Jobble says:

    Decent review but I think they missed a couple of points, or they just weren’t implemented when they were playing.
    1) PQ’s are marked on the map. Once you discover a PQ its added to your map. Even battles occurring, and their scale, show up on the map.
    2) The graphics are the way they are so you don’t need dual 9800GX’s to play it. That said, the graphics have been set on low. If you’ve seen pictures at full rez its very impressive.
    3) Quest tracking: there is a quest tracker right on the screen, you never need to open the Tome of Knowledge for that if you don’t want to.
    4) Tome of Knowledge : I found the ToK to be fantastic. If all you are interested in is purely hitting things then it won’t be overly useful for you. A great deal of the games narrative comes through the ToK so if you like the Warhammer IP I think you’ll enjoy the ToK. It needs a little reorganization.

    The latest patch notes that were “accidentally” released showed that a lot of the concerns are already being addressed. It’s not going to be a WoW killer but should Blizzard be worried? Yes, a little bit. In the end we’re the ones going to benefit regardless, competition is a good thing.

  35. Terrorstorm says:

    I actualy dont think it looks like Wow at all and thats a bad thing…. it just looked ugly to me. When you look down the road at other characters it looks really choppy as if there sliding on the ground. I was bumped into the air by walking over things on the ground. Pve was horrible. NPC ai horrible… good ideas bad graphics imo

  36. Kieron Gillen says:

    Anyone care to say what link the influx of war fans are following, btw? We can’t find the bally thing on our records.


  37. BjorkThorson says:

    I played DAoC from the day it came out and loved it right up to the point where ToA happened and I got the beta invatation from Blizz to come to WoW. The best thing for me was the open field PvP (RvR in DAoC) that DAoC had in abundance and WoW had pre-BGs, although WoW never did seem capable of really fostering a community like DAoC could. I did get to play in the preview weekend and rolled a Chaos Chosen and a Witch Elf. Right from the start WAR throws you into the middle of “us vs them” and gives you a feel that what you do matters in the larger scheme of things.
    Concerning WAR looking like WoW; it can hardly be helped since both MMOs came from the same game although only one was actually licensed to do so and WAR has the less “cartoony” look and feel. I found WAR’s landscapes much more convincing and immersive than WoW’s.
    In game play WAR felt to me a LOT less grindy with the mixture of regular quests, PQs and RvR. The Tome helped break it up imho, it gave you a chance to sit back and get a good feel for your character and a deeper look into where you were. The BGs are much more balanced with the absence of anything aproaching a twink; skill really matters in WAR as it did in DAoC, not how much gold you can throw on a character to the point where for a normal leveling character it was impossable to have a fair fight. I’m really looking forward to the 7th when I can wipe WoW off my HD and have fun again in an MMO instead grinding.

  38. BjorkThorson says:

    I followed the link from warhammeronline.com home page, NEWS section about middle of the page.

  39. Kieron Gillen says:

    Bjork: Thanks!


  40. Toski says:

    I played the beta and it was BETA. Good lord, what do you think a beta is for? all the bugs you guys are crying about are getting fixed. Thats why we beta test…

    Warhammer is and has been the deffinition of fantasy roleplay for over 25 years. over half of WoWs player base doesnt even know what DAoC or EQ1 means. WoW was not the first MMO and i find that many old gamers had to get used to WoW to play it. I never enjoyed WoW candy-ass graphics and WAR looks nothing like WoW. The smurfs look better than WoW. WAR in the preview weekend looked unreal. It had its bugs but as i said they are being addressed. WoW will retain many of its gamers only because they measure any game though the WoW, pink tinted lense. WAR will deliver that hardcore gaming experience alot of us have been missing for years. I loved the preview and cant wait for the open beta to start back up.
    WAAGH bitches!!!

  41. mak says:

    ya Mythic’s front page
    link to warhammeronline.com

  42. zach says:

    everthing i have read about war says it look the same as wow but then when u play it it like wow this game powns wow in the face. i played the pw and i loved it and cant go back to my t5 pally i mean dude wow has had a good run but it is time for a better mmo to take over all the wow fans sound like the ever quest fans when wow was coming out so ya cant wait for war and toski said it man all the little kids can still play wow as the older gamers go to a real game.

  43. Krytenn says:

    For me its all about dynamic game-play and not about the level of grass rendered. I never cared about how realistically unrealistic Wow’s graphics were as long as they were consistent and didn’t cause my computer to have a seizure. The fact that WAR’s graphics are a notch higher is great, so what if it looks similar to WoW as long as the game doesn’t turn into Warhammer: Age of Faction Grinding like WoW did and i’ll be happy. Its a fantasy game and I don’t want it to be a carbon copy of my back yard, with some Elves thrown in for flavor. This was one of my biggest issues with Age Of Conan there was so very little “Fantasy” thrown in that I really didn’t even care to smell the roses.

  44. Klaiceps says:

    Sup all ! Great post by the way you drinking tea No brushing teethed Brits :) jk … Of course it’s like WoW , WoW is prob one of the best games ever lol why would you not want to copy the BEST GAME EVER , they copy what makes WoW fun and leave out the stuff that makes me want to quit. I don’t understand people that hate on WoW.. play It then play any other MMO , it spoils you , only one out there atm worth paying $15 a month. There on the right path with War and glad to see a PVP oriented game and in a year probly gonna be WoW and War the big DAWGS of the MMO’s world ……. WoW has had it’s time and has made huge adavancements in MMO’s but have stopped and thats where War will pick up. Gode bless!

  45. Klandall says:

    If you’ve made it this far, bear with me.

    I thought WoW was fun, for awhile. I got tired of it, and have been awaiting WAR. So, when I logged on to play for the first time, my instinct was to immediately shut off my computer. Damn, if it wasn’t just like WoW! I couldn’t believe all that anticipation, for this! Oh yes, that familiar pain of completing a quest, only to turn around and hike the damn Appalachian Trail back to an NPC just to say, “I did it.” was there. Until I realized I was hopping from town to town like a 10 y.o. that just ate a bag of sugar. The towns were so close that it wasn’t the nuisance I had originally dreaded.

    The PQ’s were only mildly fun. For me this is defintetely a nice sidenote, but standing around with 30 guys trying to kill 15 enemies was somewhat annoying at first. It wasn’t until later PQ’s that the crowds thinned out and it became more interesting.

    The scenario concept was originally a nuisance to me as well. I’ve seen battles arena’s before, and couldn’t help but think, why? They had no real point to the game. Not to mention they take massive out of MMO. So, I was initially annoyed when I received a quest requiring me to take place in a scenario.

    I loved it. Hell, the scenario has the same objective as the remainder of the game. Run around the battlefield kicking the other guys butt and claim the territory.

    The Scenario’s had an added effect as well. I noticed everybody was running into the tower on the west side, but not the east side. I immediately thought, why the hell aren’t we more coordinated in this. As I ran up the east side of the tower I found an enemy flag undefended and immediately began to lay claim to the area. Now, if only I’d had back up I could have kept control of the area. Realizing the inate flaw in playing these scenarios solo caused me to join a guild. Using Ventrilo we can enter scenarios as a group and actually work as a team towards the ultimate objective! Hell, the entire time I was playing WoW I couldn’t see any reason to join a guild. It had no real purpose, atleast from my perspective. WAR has caused me to rethink the entire concept of a guild!

    Don’t get me wrong, there were flaws to the game. The biggest problem I had was targeting. It was nearly impossible at times to target an enemy if he was being engaged by another player. In PQ’s and scenario’s this is a common occurence, where your working towards a common goal so you try and help out a friendly player. There were times when you just stood there and looked stupid though. As if helping may have crossed your mind at some point, before you began dreaming about apple pies in the middle of a battle. It was easy for your target to get lost behind players, or nearby objects, and then it was like trying to shoot fly’s off a rhincerous horn from 100 yards away. My mouse skills really don’t need to be that good to play an RPG do they? Of course, if you didn’t target an enemy you couldn’t fight him. Even after being targeted and attacked my character would just stand there and continue to think about those damn apple pies! Come on, I should just have to hit an ability at this point. It should be obvious who I’m attacking. Unless I’m being mobbed, in which case I’d like it to be the weakest person in the mob. Let me take one of the jerks out before having my skull completely caved in!

    Anyway, the jury is still out on this one. while I think the game is a definite improvement over WoW, it remains to be seen how long this game can hold my attention.

  46. Shroude13 says:

    I agree Toski, everyone seems to want to compare this to WoW, but as you said when I went from DAOC to WoW I couldn’t really get into it. The graphics were more kiddish, as was the gameplay and users that were playing. DAOC and EQ were more in depth games and attracted a more mature user base. Mythic also made the platform for most of the so called “innovations” that WoW apparently has. I believe war will be a great game and wether they think so or not even the critics will be drawn to it in the end.
    Can’t wait till release, I look forward to seeing all of you and the WAR field!

  47. Foehammer says:

    You guys have it backward. Wow copied this game. This game captures the Warhammer world that WoW stole. This game is Warhammer in it’s true essense. WoW is a ripoff of Warhammer. Mythic never copied or tried to emulate WoW, which you will learn when you play RvR.

  48. Thescottsman says:

    The game looks great, I can see the similarities between this and WoW, but with that said its not the same. WAR’s graphics seem to be more toned and detailed. There are alot of classes to choose from, so that will be appealing to alt-aholics like myself.

    I did play WoW for close to 3 years (hit HWL and in BC had 2k rating arena team) and from what ive seen, the pvp looks like alot more fun. This is mainly because the amount of focus Mythic has put in the pvp aspect.

    As for bugs….Alot of MMO’s come out very very buggy, but give WAR a couple months and all the bugs should be worked out. Once the bugs are gone, the true WAR will shine through.

  49. dyi says:

    I’m confused… Didn’t (blizzard)WoW copy off Daoc and Warhammer(tabletop)???

  50. Shroude13 says:

    yea they did dyi