Eye On The Charts: Wallet Of The Lich King

Giving the monthly PC sales charts a sideways eyeball now and again is always interesting. Yeah, it’s short-sighted of the NPD to not include digital sales in any form, but nonetheless it’s some sort of picture as to what’s going on in the wider world of PC gaming. Beneath the cut: game names, with numbers next to them. You’d never have guessed. There are a couple of bonafide surprises in there, however.

April’s best-selling PC games at retail in the US were…

1. World Of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King
2. The Sims 2 Double Deluxe
3. World Of Warcraft Battle Chest
4. Company of Heroes: Tales of Valor
5. Empire: Total War
6. Left 4 Dead
7. Demigod / Gas Powered Games
8. Diablo Battle Chest
9. The Sims 2 Apartment Life Exp. Pack
10. Spore / EA Maxis
11. Warcraft III Battle Chest
12. StarCraft Battle Chest
13. World Of Warcraft: Burning Crusade Expansion Pack
14. Warhammer 40K: Dawn of War II
15. World Of Warcraft
16. The SimCity Box (SimCity Societies, SimCity 4, Sims SnapCity)
17. Bejeweled Twist
18. Fallout 3 / Bethesda
19. The Sims 2 Pets Exp. Pack
20. Hidden & Dangerous 2

(Found via Shacknews).

Huh. Well, there’s equal cause for celebration and hand-wringing in there, really. Unsurprisingly and slightly depressingly, Blizzard and Sims games absolutely dominate, though it’s interesting to note that Blizzard now occupies more space in the chart than the Sims. Is this a sign that The Sims 1/2 is finally running out of new customers (something the upcoming Sims 3 will surely change), or that Blizzard are on the ascendancy more than ever? The popularity of WoW and its expansions is a given (Christ, though – that’s a lot of Warcraft), but it’s a bit of a surprise to see beardy old, 2D Starcraft doing so well.

Demigod’s done alright for itself, in spite of all the furore about piracy and FUBAR netcode. Given there’ll be a crapload of (likely ongoing) online sales, it’s probably been Gas-Powered Games’ most profitable title in some time. Company of Heroes: Tales of Valor is a bit of a shocker up there at number 4, which throws new light on concerns that it was a little slight and forgettable for the high asking price. Relic/THQ are clearly onto a massive winner with their still great-looking WW2 RTS – at a guess, it’s managed to pick up something of a non-traditional audience in a similar vein to the Total War series. We can expect more CoH yet, I don’t doubt.

Left 4 Dead’s holding steady several months on from release, which I would imagine makes it one of Valve’s greatest-ever successes. L4D might not generate the flurry of discussion that TF2 does, but there’s a sense it quietly captured the zeitgeist and did extraordinarily well out it. Sooner or later, Half-Life will no longer be Valve’s defining game, I’d guess. Perhaps, even, they’re on their way to being the Blizzard of FPS games.

I’ll leave Fallout 3 alone, as I’ll only say mean things about it again otherwise.

And woah, hey, what’s that doing at number 20? Half a decade old and always a bit of a niche title, the only apparent explanation for genre-bending WW2 oddity Hidden & Dangerous 2’s resurgence is a recent $5 pricetag. Quite an exciting precedent, really. Now developers Illusion Softworks have been absorbed into the 2K mass (being tragically renamed 2K Czech in the process), I wonder if any of H&D2’s creators enjoy a piece of this bizarre comeback, or if it all goes straight into the host company’s wallet. Let’s hope it helps out their upcoming Mafia II in some way, anyhow.


  1. AndrewC says:

    H&D2! I was playing this recently! And encountered a game ruining bug while in the Alps! Great otherwise, though.

    That’s a really dull top 20 – it’s just Beatles/Stones albums the whole way. Does the next 20 make for more interesting reading?

  2. Hmm-hmm. says:

    One wonders what the chart would look like without all those Blizzard/Sim games.

  3. FhnuZoag says:

    Haha, how curious, I had just bought H&D2 recently as an impulse buy. It’s a great game though.

  4. Vinraith says:

    H&D2 has been on sale for the past month for 99 cents at Gamestops in the US. Since this chart only takes physical sales into account, I’d guess that accounts for its abrupt rise to popularity.

  5. nihohit says:

    Why does demigod have GPG next to it?
    Also, blizzard now has a third of the chart – I do wonder if blizzard actually makes a third of the income (not including yada-yada) in the industry.

  6. Kadayi says:

    H&D2 is a quality game, good to see it enjoying a bargain bin resurgence.

  7. Zyrxil says:

    Why does demigod have GPG next to it?

    Because it was developed by Gas Powered Games. Stardock is the publisher.

  8. Dick Nickerson says:

    LOL! Console-tards and their Halo fad they couldn’t handle a real platform like a PC. BRB, I’m going to go play some DoTA and than level my Gnome Warrior in WoW. Silly console fanboys, they don’t know what they’re missing.

  9. Starky says:

    And PC-only gamers don’t know what they are missing, amazing games are amazing games no matter what hardware their devs decide to make it run on.
    We all know the truth, for every great PC exclusive there are 3 great console “exclusive” games – which if we are lucky might just get ported over (6-12 months after the fact, once/if the exclusivity deal ends) and not suck horridly in translation (of which the king of sucky ports remains Resi Evil 4).

    I probably spend 60% of my gaming time on my PC, and if given the choice (and all versions been otherwise equal) I prefer to get the title on PC.
    Does that make me a PC gamer?

    Hell no.
    I’m a Gamer. No prefix for me thanks!

    Added to which spouting “lolz console tardz!!!11” only makes you look as stupid and immature as xbox fanboys jerking off over the mediocrity of Halo.

  10. Mil says:

    @Starky: I suspect that was sarcasm.

    EDIT: I fail at ASCII art. And RPS fails for not allowing the <pre> tag.

  11. Danny says:

    And the Fallout pack (F1, F2 & F:T) hits number 7 on NPD’s top seller charts for April! The end of the world is nigh.

    link to kotaku.com.au

  12. Huch says:

    Hey, the first Halo was good.

  13. Egon says:

    If L4D is at #6 with out steam sales I would think it could take #1 easy with them. Or at least #2 … WoW addicts

  14. Taill4f4r says:

    Despite only owning two of those, the list isn’t too surprising. I didn’t expect Demigod up there, though. Considering the ‘negative’ press, server problems, lack of demo…

    Blizzard needs a World of Sims, I guess. Or, really, really doesn’t.

  15. Rich_P says:

    And PC-only gamers don’t know what they are missing

    It all depends on what games you enjoy playing. If you’re like me and pretty much only play grand strategy, FPS, and simulation games, then there’s little reason to buy a console.

    Blizzard needs a World of Sims

    WoW meets The Sims Online. That would be…different. Still can’t believe I tried TSO; many a cold shower was spent trying to wash away that shame.

  16. Serondal says:

    I’d say Blizzrd probably makes MORe than a third of the income if you count all computer game sales and their subscription fees. IF you’re not counting the subscription fees then I dunno :P

  17. subedii says:

    With respect to Starky, I have to take issue with the “1 great PC exclusive to 3 great console exclusives” comment. Really good console exclusives are pretty rare as well, the only way that comment comes true or close to being true is if you compare PC releases to console releases across all platforms, which whilst a common argument, isn’t exactly a fair comparison.

    Realistically, there are very few console exclusive releases these days, with most major titles being multiplatform. 360 releases in particular tend to get PC releases which if not simultaneous, receive a release maybe 6-12 months later as you say. It’s a definite downside. However, at the moment there’s a recognisable shift occurring to attempt to close that release gap, as the realisation is beginning to hit that your game missing the big hype and media window is detrimental to sales. Bionic Commando, as an example, is getting a May / June console release, with the PC release scheduled for July. 1-2 months. It’s still later admittedly but not to any significant degree, and certainly a far cry from the 12 months.

    This also works in reverse, which is why when publishers realised that Dragon Age looked like it would be a really big title and could possibly sell on the console market as more than just an afterthought, they delayed the release date of the PC version so that they could match it with the 360 release.

    The logic behind such moves is easy to understand, as not doing so would have meant that the 360 version would have missed the major marketing campaign that’d be hitting around the time of the PC release, resulting in a pretty hefty drop in sales. Likewise, the same holds with BC, and for example what Capcom are attempting with their other titles, or Bioware going for ( IIRC ) a simultaneous release with Mass Effect 2. The understanding is beginning to come through that simultaneous releases are more effective at maximising sales. It just makes more sense that way, unless you’re dealing with hardcore platform exclusives like Killzone or Halo.

    I also take issue with the comment that the ports suck as a general rule. People seem to love to point out Resident Evil 4 time and time again, when that port was years ago, from the previous platform generation, and is one which even Capcom themselves announced that they royally screwed up on (and getting a major games company to fess up to something like that is pretty freaking rare). If you look at Capcoms recent output on the issue, you’ll find an incredible amount of work and dedication getting into their PC ports today, most often with extra features.

    This is not to say that extra features are a necessary part of a PC port, but in general ports that come later to a platform (any platform) do tend to come with additional extras that weren’t completable by the initial release date, and in order to aid sales. DMC4 with some extremely impressive new game modes that take advantage of the additional available processing power. Mass Effect with free DLC and PC specific control schemes and minigames (which in terms of functional control, makes things like the Mako MUCH more easy to control). GTA IV with an entire movie maker and community system. Upcoming games like Street Fighter 4 with new art styles (minor addition admittedly, but a nice touch). Dragon Age with a mod making suite that they’re hoping will re-create the fan community surrounding games like Baldur’s Gate and Neverwinter Nights. I could go on.

    Console-tard / PC-tard comments are vacuous at best, but there’s no sense in dropping to that level of empty hyperbole in return.

  18. Turin Turambar says:

    “We all know the truth, for every great PC exclusive there are 3 great console “exclusive” games”

    …. yeah, you really are a “gamer”, not a “pc gamer”, if you believe this.

  19. Lightbulb says:

    Well. The top 10 is not 100% of the total games related sales is it. Thus 1/3 of the top 10 does not equal 1/3 of the total.

    So basically: no. :)

  20. unclelou says:

    “We all know the truth, for every great PC exclusive there are 3 great console “exclusive” games”

    If you count all consoles, including the PSP and DS, and put them up collectively against the PC, then maybe, yes.

    Looking at the consoles I own, it’s more a ratio of 10:1 in favour of the PC, at the moment.

  21. Carra says:

    I rather see people buy great classic games like diablo, warcraft 3 and starcraft then seeing them buy crappy new games. More fun and a lot cheaper :)

  22. Larington says:

    Most of my problems with console ports relate only. Only. To bad translation of the control method, IE the assumption that all us PC Gamers have 360 gamepads plugged into them or some such presumptiveness.

  23. Wirbelwind says:

    CoH: Tales of Valor so high? I’m surprised. Takes a while to get a game started.

    I’d feel sad about Dawn of War 2 if it weren’t for the fact they still have a long way to go for balance – Tyranids are horribly overpowered and it has sucked all my enjoyment out of playing online paired against them (ravener in particular) and I assume I’m not alone in this.

  24. Dorian Cornelius Jasper says:

    Even though consoles are certainly the better choice for gamers in general, I’ve just got no urge to go out and by any this-gen consoles. And since I don’t have the consoles, I’ve got no urge to buy the games. Is a vicious cycle of apathy.

    On the other hand, I own a decent PC and this means impulse buys take their toll on my wallet and my hard drive.

  25. Starky says:

    @Mil: Sarcasm and text don’t mix (a lesson I’ve learned many times, being a sarcastic b-tard IRL), especially when it’s not particularly witty, or original – maybe I’m jaded, but when I see someone spouting such fan-boyish rubbish like that I don’t give it much benefit of the doubt.
    Besides, it’s too easy for stupid people who make stupid comments to later try and withdraw them with the “I was being sarcastic” defence. It’s the dog ate my homework of the internet.

    @subedii & unclelou: I was indeed talking about ALL platforms, which while I agree isn’t a fair comparison, it wasn’t supposed to be. The point wasn’t which platform gets the most great exclusive games, but that if you ignore all other platforms you miss out on 3/4ths of great exclusive games (especially 1st party games).
    Which if you ignore 3 out of 4 great games just because of the platform they run on, how can you call yourself a gamer?
    Fair enough if you’d like to play it but simply cannot afford that platform, but anyone pretending that the game/platform sucks because they don’t own one, well that way madness lies.

    I agree with much of what you say on the multi-platform aspect of this generation – which is the most cross-platform action I’ve seen since the Amiga/DOS(or Win3.1)/Amstrad/Mac/commodore days.
    Which is both good and bad. There are many plus points to system exclusivity (especially for hardware producers).

    As for ports, yes people like to point out Resi 4, because as I said it is the reigning king of crappy ports, it’s the infamous worst of the worst. Just like Daikatana is never far from the lips when talking about over-hyped games that end up sucking hard. Or Duke Nukem Forever is always mentioned when talking about vapourware.

    Capcom did indeed learn their lesson and games like DMC4 and Burnout Paradise were some of the better PC ports I’ve played.
    Lets be clear I was not talking about multi-platform games – I’m talking about games which were exclusive to one platform and then after the fact are ported over.
    Of which I’d say the majority do indeed suck as ports, because when devs are designing for a single platform, hacks, shortcuts and workarounds are used, which then makes porting a nightmare (usually for a 3rd party).

    This isn’t as bad with 360 games because of the platform parity between it and windows, but it is rare for anything short of a simple indie game (such as world of goo :Edit: which was probably the other way around, PC to Wii) to cross from PS3 or Wii to PC and be a good port.
    Just look at your examples, they are ALL 360>PC ports. If Microsoft had not based the 360 around PC architecture, hardware and OS (directX and such) as they did – do you honestly think the PC would be getting the ports (good or bad quality) it is getting now?

  26. Danarchist says:

    I am just happy to finally read the word “vacuous” in a forum post! I love you Brits sometimes.
    As far as pc and console game comparisons. I think we should, and forgive me for this, all just get along. I myself do not own a console as I actually don’t own a tv. But having played the crap out of my brothers xbox from time to time I can understand the infatuation. Myself, If they could just attach a keyboard and mouse to a console so I could $*()@ aim at stuff without cussing like a 15year old at recess id be happy to quite buying 3k systems every other year.
    And I believe that chart ranks sales not subscription fee’s, so saying “wow addicts” is missing the point. The majority of those sales are NEW players. One of which is my girlfriend that started playing after she saw my gnome dk dance for the first time. hahaha

  27. Bilocationist says:

    Just have to say that H&D 2 really is an exceptional game, glad to see it doing well. Still play it today, wish they’d make a third…

    Hopefully Mafia 2 will be good, fingers crossed.

  28. Stromko says:

    I find the vast majority of console titles to be forgettable and disposable, such that I try not to buy any games for my home consoles. They are for renting games, because that option exists. I’ve had a XB360 for several years and only own six games for it(Mass Effect, Dead Rising, GTA IV, Fable 2, couple others I can’t remember).

    Several of those games have had or will have PC ports (Dead Rising is in neither category sadly), but those ports have been rather crappy ports. A lot of people have encountered horrible problems with GTA IV. I haven’t heard of lots of people having problems with Mass Effect on PC, BUT I DO– even after taking care of the massive overheating issues tthat I encounter only with M.E., the game still crashes every 5 minutes on my PC. So although these are games that, on the balance, I’ve rather enjoyed, I also PREFER to own them as their native console versions.

    So, my position is that console exclusives should probably stay there, because they can’t seem to figure out how to run the f’ing things on the PC with any consistency. But the PC has far, far more exclusives that are worth my time than any console.

    It depends on one’s tastes of course. Consoles have a lot of sports games which I couldn’t care less about, racing games which I rarely care about, JRPGs which are [i]usually[/i] sub-interactive cliche crap, and Super Smash Brothers Melee and Soul Calibur are enough for my fighting game itch for all eternity. It’s not that there aren’t a lot of quality games coming out on consoles, but 98% of them aren’t intended to attract me.

    Then again, I also hate– no, not hate, just don’t care about World of Warcraft. It may be the most polished and fun variant of that strain of MMO, but that doesn’t mean I want to give it another go. That it’s been the best-selling PC game for months and years on end gives me no pleasure. I’d go so far as to say EA is conning idiots out of their money by churning out these craptastic expansions for intentionally craptastic and unfinished games, but (The Sims PC) is a real game not a social networking client with a game on top. — On second thought, Blizzard might actually be spending some of their #1 NPD money on making SC2 and Diablo 3 more polished and nice, so.. Win!

    Btw what the f’k is EA’s excuse for losing a billion dollars last year when they’ve been selling versions of The Sims 2 and expansions for 40-30$ a pop, topping the sales charts for years? Oh, right, acquiring every studio under the sun and bleaching out their flavor isn’t cheap.

  29. archonsod says:

    “Which if you ignore 3 out of 4 great games just because of the platform they run on, how can you call yourself a gamer?”

    Same way I’d call someone an architect for building a bridge, but not for playing with lego.

  30. Ginger Yellow says:

    “at a guess, it’s managed to pick up something of a non-traditional audience in a similar vein to the Total War series”

    Huh? Surely the Total War series appeals directly to the traditional PC audience.

  31. Vinraith says:

    “It all depends on what games you enjoy playing. If you’re like me and pretty much only play grand strategy, FPS, and simulation games, then there’s little reason to buy a console.”

    Amen. Add RPG’s to that (and no, interactive anime movies don’t count) and it’s clear why I’ve pretty much stopped buying consoles. This generation has yet to come up with any platform that’s actually compelling as far as the titles it offers IMO. I still break out my PS2 now and again, mostly to play games with my wife, but for SP gaming the PC easily fills my needs. I have more games than I have time to play as it is.

  32. subedii says:

    Just look at your examples, they are ALL 360>PC ports. If Microsoft had not based the 360 around PC architecture, hardware and OS (directX and such) as they did – do you honestly think the PC would be getting the ports (good or bad quality) it is getting now?

    To that question, a reversal: Do you honestly think the 360 would have been a viable platform to support genres and styles of games that are / were PC lead if it weren’t so heavily based on the PC?

    Aside from which, the only other two platforms we can talk about with regards to porting are the PS3 and the Wii. In the case of the PS3, it has extremely few real exclusives to be ported (I’m talking ones that aren’t already on the 360), and is, let’s face it, failing this console generation pretty hard. The Wii on the other hand is a completely different animal in both style and target demographics for its games. You could just as easily ask why there aren’t ports of Wii games to the 360. So with that stated, there are only two really viable machines to port from to the PC, and one of them I’d scrap from the list largely because it doesn’t really have much to port. You ask where the ports are from the PS3 and the Wii? You could ask that exact same question of the 360, and I’ve already given the reasons you won’t see them.

    I’m not trying to argue some warped idea of platform monogomous relationships or something daft like that. But I disagree that the majority of ports are or need to be crap these days. We both seem to agree that 360 > PC ports are generally OK (I’d go one step further and say they’re actually really good these days, and getting better), and that the majority of ports are coming from the 360 to the PC, and not the PS3 or the Wii, and I’ve already explained why that’s the case. Beyond that you’re not exactly likely to see a port (on the PC, 360, OR PS3) of MadWorld coming anytime soon, or No More Heroes. And if the 360 gets Killzone or Drake’s Fortune, I’ll eat my own hat. Then I’ll buy three more, and eat those too. On the other side, we have Wii ports of multi-platform games (and I can’t think of any previously exclusive 360 / PS3 games that have been ported to the Wii) that tend to be shallow, poor and hamstrung imitations of their former selves, usually with waggle tacked on in some ridiculous and unintuitive ways that’s pretty much become a running joke of what Wii ports are available.

    Now if you’re talking purely in the realm of platform exclusives though, then that’s a different argument. Because ultimately, it’s because of the exclusives that you’re using that platform. I mean, there’s little point in owning a Wii if you like FPS’s. Heck, these days even the hardcore Nintendo fanboys that supported the company all the way from the NES through to the Gamecube are starting to find themselves disillusioned with just what’s available on that system for them, as Nintendo’s emphasis shifts more towards the mainstream now. Meanwhile, the PS3 keeps coming off as the 360’s poor sibling with a couple of exclusives.

    Ultimately, any “Consoles VS PC” debate actually almost always ends up coming down to the 360 VS PC, because realistically those are the two most comparable systems with regards to titles released on them and general demographic audience. If someone’s issuing blanket statements that you should eschew one platform for the other, then that’s just plain dumb. If we’re talking about which platform to go for for exclusives and ports of exclusives, it is nowhere near as one-sided as you’re making it out to be.

  33. undead dolphin hacker says:

    I wonder how many people actually kept Demigod? I’d returned my copy within the first week.

  34. jarvoll says:

    @archonsod: Best. Simile. Ever.

    I’d like to add that console-platform-exclusives are Duplo. MGS2? *shudder*. Halo? *retch*. Final Fantasy? *vomit*.

    The only kind of game for which the console control mechanism is similar to a mouse/keyboard is platformers, and they reached their zenith in the mid-90’s with SM64. For the majority of the other genres (FPS, MMO, RTS, TBS, PnC Adventure, Text Adventure, Simulation, RPG, rogue-like, puzzle), playing with a gamepad is like dancing in a body-cast. Even for platformers (and the unmentioned genres fighting and racing, which do best with their own unique kinds of controllers), there’s nothing a gamepad can do that a keyboard can’t.

    Just the control issue alone, not even to mention superior graphics (and indeed, performance generally), ability to fan-patch, ability to mod, and, you know, being able to do everything else of which a PC is capable, is enough to make me spurn console games forever.

  35. Anthony Damiani says:

    I wonder how many people actually kept Demigod? I’d returned my copy within the first week.

    The netcode was awful, but it’s a charming little game now that that works.

  36. ybfelix says:

    wait, wasn’t crappy ports an argument FOR playing on console?

  37. cjlr says:

    How the crap is Starcraft still selling? I mean, who doesn’t have a copy by now? Plus, it’s like 200 mb. It’d take longer to find a copy than to actually pirate download acquire through non-traditional questionably legitimate means! Er, hyperbolically speaking, that is. And in 11 years I’d think somebody has come up with a foolproof and flawless keygen, right?

    Heh, hyperbolically. Yeah, I’m pretty sure that’s not how hyperbole declines to an adverb. But if you held the disk at the right angle and projected it onto a plane…

    @subedii: Beautiful summation!

  38. luckystriker says:

    @cjlr I also thought Starcraft coming in at #12 was probably the most surprising game on the list. I would imagine people are brushing up on their 4 Gate Goon rushes and their Terran Hard Counters in preparation for SC2.

    En Taro Adun!

  39. DSX says:

    The new DLC’s along with some choice mods have significantly improved Fallout3, glad to see it’s still going strong.

    On the flipside, the latest patch (1.5) from Beth is to be avoided at all costs for major crash issues with mods. Two steps forward, one step back perhaps.

  40. SwiftRanger says:

    You know, US charts and all that. The retail sales in April were down there too. I think a general PC sales chart of the European mainland would be the best indicator of what is really selling well on PC nowadays.

    Missing out if you’re a PC only gamer? No, I don’t really see much to my liking in what the consoles are offering, not in terms of controls, games (pricing), online service (pricing) or future potential.

    In all honesty, PC gaming doesn’t need those (half-assed) console ports. It’s nice Capcom is doing some effort there but those games will just never do as well as a pure PC title.

  41. Headache says:

    If I had to guess, I’d say the reason we’re seeing the Warcraft 3 Battle Chest, Diablo Battle Chest and Starcraft Battle Chest back in the NPD’s is because Blizzard launched their new battle.net website in April where you could register all your Blizzard games. I wouldn’t be suprised if people had gone out and bought all the old games at discount prices to register them.

  42. Dreamhacker says:

    A pro-console insurgency at RPS? Shameless gamepaddites!

  43. Archonsod says:

    “In all honesty, PC gaming doesn’t need those (half-assed) console ports. ”

    We don’t need no stinkin ports, we got emulation!

  44. R. says:

    PC games are great. Console games are great. Anyone who doesn’t see this is a blinkered idiot.

    The End.

  45. Starky says:

    To that question, a reversal: Do you honestly think the 360 would have been a viable platform to support genres and styles of games that are / were PC lead if it weren’t so heavily based on the PC?

    Yes I do, I don’t think it would have mattered one bit if Microsoft based the 360 on exclusive proprietary hardware that was unlike anything seen in windows machines – What cause consoles to sell are the games and the simplicity of features like live. Now it may not have been as good, just because MS had a vast experience to draw from when designing the 360 based on PC compatible hardware – but assuming it was just as good at playing games, downloading DLC and playing on Xbox live, I don’t think it would have mattered one bit to xbox owners what exactly was under the hood. Even if that made porting a 360 game to a PC a massive struggle for a Dev, one not worth the price of doing.
    After all it never harmed the playstation 1 or 2 one bit.

    Just because you (general non-specific “you”) may not like a game style, or genre, doesn’t mean it’s rubbish – you may hate JRPGs, or whatever, but some of them are still fantastic games, with high production values, expertly coded and playable.
    I personally can’t stand collectable card games, but I don’t for a second believe that all of them are stupid or lesser than my preferred style of card game.
    It’s just plain ignorance to define other peoples choice of entertainment as lesser, dumber or poorer than your own, just because you have a personal aversion.

    My point was never that consoles are better, as I said in my first post I spend more time playing games on my PC than any other platform, it’s my preferred platform over all.
    I’m still not a “PC gamer” though, I’m just a gamer… I don’t care what the platform is, I go where the great games are.

    In a way PC gamer fanboyism is worse than Xbox kiddy fanboyism, we’ll all agree that your 360 fan boy PS3 hating fool is exactly that, an ignorant fool. There’s a kind of smug superiority around many “PC gamers” that I personally loathe.
    I’d be the first to agree that the vast majority of the time FPS games are better with a mouse and keyboard, it’s more accurate, faster and allows for much greater range of skill (no auto aim) for competitive gaming, combined with generally higher FPS, better resolution and refresh rates I’d much rather play an FPS on my PC.
    I’d not say the same for a driving game though, I’d much rather play that with a controller, sitting on my couch with it on the TV – I can use my PC to do so with a 360 controller, and I often do. pre-360 though, I’d have used my PS2 or PS1 every time, because inevitably, the ports would suck.

    It’s an attitude that is summed up by archonsod here in this thread, the opinion that PC games are smarter, and console games are dumb kids games – which may have had some truth in the Genesis/SNES days – but really that stopped being true once consoles had access to comparable media storage as PCs (the CD rom, then DVD rom).
    A dumb game is a dumb game no matter the platform, though I’d agree it is probably easier to sell a dumb game on a console than on a PC.
    Of course often the price of that complexity on the PC market was buggy, unfinished, or just plain broken games, despite the great game under it (basically any troika game serves as example).

    What I find amusing though, is the need to defend the PC platform against attacks that were never levelled against it (at least by me).

    It’s not about been pro-PC, or Pro-console, it was never about Pc vs. console, or PC vs. 360 for me.
    It’s about being Pro-Great games, and my opinion that you can’t really call yourself a gamer if limit yourself (by choice, I understand not everyone can afford to buy all of them) to a single platform.
    I’ll buy whatever platform I need too buy (eventually, funds allowing) to play the games that appeal to me. I just think that limiting yourself as a gamer to any one platform with close minded attitude (“all console games suck” as seen in this thread) is the equivalent of saying “I’ll only watch TV shows on cable, all web-based TV sucks!”

  46. Hmm-Hmm. says:

    @Starky: But.. er.. you know, couldn’t someone not be a gamer by, you know, playing games on one of the two?

    Personally, I’ve limited myself even more by choosing a Mac computer.. but surely that doesn’t mean I couldn’t be a gamer, right?

    I mean, I’m a mac gamer (although I have Windows XP now through a partition), but that is just what I am, since I play games on that system. It´s not as if I loathe consoles.. I just don´t own any, since I don´t find them appealing enough.

  47. Starky says:

    It’s not having access to only one machine that stops people being gamers imo, it’s the attitude.
    You use a mac, that limits the games you can play, funds maybe stop you playing games you’d otherwise like to play.
    God knows I’ve a massive list myself of games I’d like to play, but can’t afford to get (software or hardware), or just don’t have the time to get around too.

    It’s the attitude of “I pick X, therefore Y sucks” that more than anything else stops someone being a gamer.
    Similar to how many lovers of indie film eschew main stream Hollywood film as being inferior, dumbed down and unimportant, I’d have the same issue with someone like that calling themselves a Filmbuff (or such term).

  48. skalpadda says:

    If L4D is at #6 with out steam sales I would think it could take #1 easy with them. Or at least #2 … WoW addicts

    Then again, Blizzard sell all of their games online too.. ;)

  49. subedii says:

    Yes I do, I don’t think it would have mattered one bit if Microsoft based the 360 on exclusive proprietary hardware that was unlike anything seen in windows machines – What cause consoles to sell are the games and the simplicity of features like live. Now it may not have been as good, just because MS had a vast experience to draw from when designing the 360 based on PC compatible hardware – but assuming it was just as good at playing games, downloading DLC and playing on Xbox live, I don’t think it would have mattered one bit to xbox owners what exactly was under the hood. Even if that made porting a 360 game to a PC a massive struggle for a Dev, one not worth the price of doing.
    After all it never harmed the playstation 1 or 2 one bit.

    Guess we’ll have to just agree to disagree on that one then. The 360 was based around DirectX, and that allowed it to be multiplatform with the PC far easier than the other consoles on the market. This is something that helped it tremendously. The initial push by Halo was definitely a plus point, but after that, yeah, I feel it was an important factor. It’s not just about technical capabilities, but also about which genres and styles of games would become most viable on the system, and that was helped no end by it being able to bring on and eventually become a leader for things like WRPG’s and FPS’s from the PC side, which up until that point had largely failed to make any headway into the console sphere. What causes consoles to sell are the games, as you stated, what games were available for the XBox and 360 was heavily helped by an easier porting processes between PC and those systems. It’s something that differentiated Microsoft’s machine heavily from Sony, and I’d say that combined with Live was the edge they needed in order to come out on top of the PS3 this generation.

    Whilst you state the lack of those titles wouldn’t have meant much because the PS1 and 2 survived without them, I would say those were crucial for how MS ended up being competitive and ultimately surpassing the Playstation family. In a lot of ways the Xbox was largely billed as the PC in a box: Easier and more convenient to use, same great games. At the same time it was capable of whatever Sony could do on their machine. It’s something that ended up making a lot of genres that were previously PC only or PC lead and getting them onto the console market or even console lead development.

    Even the push for Live (not to detract from MS’s amazing achievements with that system), was heavily influenced early on by the fact that PC style games and genres that had been doing online for years were now coming to the console. These games NEEDED online, MS saw that, and that it was now necessary to have a well developed online architecture in order to suit those new styles of game coming out. Let’s face it, before the XBox and XBL, multiplayer in the console sphere was non-existent and in most circles considered ancillary to the “core” experience of single system co-op.

    Since then Live has metamorphosed into a massive all encompassing beast of a system, but without that initial push of multiplayer games (which not to stress the point, were to a large extent non-existent in the console sphere before the XBox), it would be a shadow of what it is today. The Playstation missed out on those styles of games, as did Nintendo. They never developed equivalent competing systems, and in actuality, never saw the need to. This is something that at the very least has hamstrung the PS3 right now, with Sony playing catch up to MS’s online capability this generation.

    You also pointed out that good ports were mainly from the 360 and nowhere else as if this were a major stumbling block. I pointed out why this is the only natural course at the moment, and each of the other platforms suffers from similar.

    Look, you can call me smugly superior all you want, and if you want, you can also disregard everything I’ve just said in this post about the Xbox and how its link to the PC helped it. Ultimately, all I did was take issue with your comments regarding ports, and the statement that there are far more good games on the console side per release on the PC. Which when looked at objectively, I can’t really accept at all, or at the very least not to the degree stated. As I said before, I’m not arguing that anyone should own just one system, but I still disagree with where you’re coming from on those points.

  50. Starky says:

    Subedii, I actually agree with pretty much everything you said, I just don’t think it would have been impossible for MS to do the same on specific hardware/OS design.
    Sure it helped them a bucket load, in every way you said… and it certainly helped the 360 gain the market place it has now.
    I just don’t think that had it not happened, and had other company done what Microsoft did (say apple on a platform using new OS) – granted it might not have seen the same games as the 360, with it’s many nods towards popular PC genres.
    But that isn’t the same as there been no games – the lines may not have been blurred like they are now, but there would still be great titles.
    It was the smart and prudent thing to do for Microsoft – and it let a lot of PC dev houses move to console development with very little pain (which the playstation is infamous for) – but it’s not like the Xbox/360 had the first decent FPS, or RTS ever on a console.
    Just the first one with decent online gaming.

    As a final word, if you get the impression that I’m calling you smugly superior, or disregarding everything you say, it’s not intended – at least not aimed at you (which is why I put the break in after my reply to you, because that was aimed at the thread in general not any one person). I’ve read everything you’ve replied with and agree with much of it – disagree with bits and appreciate the well thought out and intelligent replies.
    Any tone of dismissal was aimed firmly at those few in this thread who personify the fanboy and elitist “PC Gamer” stereotypes. They clearly stand out.

    Edit: Oh, and I just realized that all the way back then, I never really clarified that when talking about console exclusives and 3 great games to every 1 on the PC, I was thinking more along the lines of AAA titles than Indie stuff… while the consoles have some nice stuff that I want/have (flower, SF2 HD remix etc), I think it’s pretty much a given that PC is the undisputed king of Indie games/mods.