Money For Old Europa: For The Glory Demo

Lothian is going to be my bitch. You heard, Lothian. You heard. I have no idea where lothian is. I'll ask Rab.

I enjoy posting this immediately after Jim’s last post on the future of modding. Paradox have just released the For The Glory demo, based on their Europa Universalis game. Which is expected. Except despite them having released Europa Universalis III, this is a standalone game covering 400 (Count ’em!) years of history based on the Europa Universalis II engine. Crikey. The mod link is that it’s based on the AGCEEP mod, which I’ll admit I have even less experience with than Europa Universalis itself. And when I’ve never played Europa Universalis, I’m not even sure that’s possible. Still – 10,000 historical events. Crikey! Crikey! Anyway – demo’s here and the full version can be bought here. Oh – and a video!

Video! Crikey!


  1. The Manxman says:

    Hmmm, not very accurate though – they’ve missed a country off the above screenshot!

  2. Lars Westergren says:

    I like that they produce historically researched games for the hardcore strategy market. Check out the forums, you can probably get a masters degree in history if you hang out there long enough.

    But I don’t have the patience to play it myself. :-)

    If you only look at the graphics almost all their games just look like a reskinning mod on the same engine, but I presume there are some differences in gameplay between a this game and, say, their WW2 ones?

  3. Fede says:

    There is lots of gameplay difference between the Paradox games.

    To add some more news, “For the Glory” is the first of the games based on the old engines to be relased. Last year Paradox announced they were giving away the source code of their old engine to anyone who wanted to work on new games and agreeed with their clauses.
    “Arsenal of Democracy” will be the second.

  4. Sitting Duck says:

    You are james Richardson and i collect my £5.
    Crikey indeed

  5. Railick says:

    Are you sure there is a missing country and not just a dark blue one that looks like the ocean ? :P

    • Mike Russo says:

      I am going way out on a limb here and guessing that the Manxman was referring to the Isle of Man, not stealth-Scotland.

  6. fabamatic says:

    I am glad they are using the old engine, the new engine requires a “higher end” machine that wargamers usually don’t have (i.e. I have been able to play EU3 recently, after having acquired a computer that can run Crysis on medium-high settings!). And let’s face it, if you are playing a game that have the slow pace of the EU games, you are not playing them for the eye candy.

    • Fede says:

      The new engine (not sure about HoI, but I have EU3 and EU:R) doesn’t require lots of cpu. I have a 7 year old pc that even then wasn’t the best around, but I can still run it well enough.

      Could be because I changed graphic card 3 years ago, but still it doesn’t look like you need a monster to play it :)

    • Vinraith says:


      The new engine requires fairly up-to-date (for the time EU3 was released) pixel-shaders, so it won’t run on something without a real 3d card. Older laptops, netbooks, and the like would fare better with the old engine.

      Plus, while there are plenty of mods to fix it, I’ve always thought the EU3 engine was ugly as sin. I like the game itself, but that map… ugh.

      I hear EU: Rome is prettier, but despite having it installed I’ve yet to find time to fire it up and give it a try.

    • Oak says:

      Rome is a major visual improvement over EU3. Very pretty game.

    • Vinraith says:


      I’m glad to hear that. I do like Pishtaco’s map mod for EU3, though (as well as the altered version in Magna Mundi) which makes the map look like a hand drawn atlas from the era (only, of course, accurate :)).

    • fabamatic says:

      Also the music was 1000 times better in EU 2 than it is in EU 3, but somehow I think this might be copyright related.

    • Vinraith says:

      I think all the music in EU2 was public domain, as it was all period stuff by unspecified artists. It was exceedingly easy to add your own period music to EU2 as well. I used to have about a gig of music files I’d drop into any given install of EU2 to ensure lots of interesting era-appropriate music in each age. I wonder if I can still find that stuff.

    • Jae Armstrong says:

      Vinraith, in comparison to EU2’s godforsaken horror story, EU3’s map was the most beautiful creature in the world. Unless we’re comparing mods. Though both TOT and HDM are gorgeous in their own right, so I don’t really think you have a case there either :p

      In all honesty I couldn’t care less about FTG. It might have had an edge on EU3 a year or two ago, but now? Post IN? Within striking distance of HTTT? Not a chance.

    • Vinraith says:

      2d maps are, to me, just plain prettier. I look at the screen shots for FTG, with the EU2 map at respectable modern resolutions, and it’s just so clearly better than anything anyone has ever done with the EU3 map. This is clearly a matter of opinion, and clearly we’re going to have to agree to disagree.

      As to not caring about FTG, that too is a matter of taste. EU2 and EU3 are very different games, in no small part due to the way they handle history and events, and I’m happy to keep a place for both on my hard drive. FTG looks like a better way to play EU2, so I’ll likely pick it up.

  7. Railick says:

    I can play EU3 but not HOI 3, it's so slow and laggy I might as well just play HOI2 and pretend it's pretty :P I really don't understand since HOI3 isn't REALLY in 3d

  8. Rosti says:

    So, err, this going to cost me my degree, isn’t it? I mean, it’s tickling the parts of me that grew up playing Voyages of Discovery…

  9. Railick says:

    Ah yes I see the Isle of Man is missing. However I believe in their FAQ they stated they didn't actaully change the map at all so it wasn't in EU2 to begin with (I could be wrong that might have been the FAQ For Arsenal of Democracy: P)

    I don't think it is in EU3 either for that matter.

    • Fede says:

      I checked and in fact they say in the FAQ that the map is unchanged. This puzzles me, as they were speaking about a new map, months ago.

  10. Railick says:

    I believe HOI 3 is WAY worse than EU3. It has a silly number of provinces, just totally silly. I was playing as Australia, I was going to try and just build up a strong navy for when Japan declared war on the US and them assist the US in the pacific, I couldn't even figure out what the heck to do with the 100s of provinces in under my control :P Australia is BIG on there :( I did build a ship calleD HMAS Vampire though :) Is it bad luck to name a ship after one you know was sunk historically? Kind of asking for it eh ?

    Ontop of the new graphics engine which, really doesn't add much because it skill looks like a map, there are all these new provinces and all this new AI cranking constantly. The AI of every country running at the same time with each HQ Running its own AI trying to find the best solution to its current problem. Ontop of that all the economy and diplomatic calculations between tons of countries ect is probably why it is so slow for so many. Even with that I mind I simply can't bring myself to play it because of all the stuff you have control over. I could deal with the lag and what not but I'm just so lost ! :)

    EU3 on the other hand I'm doing very well with. Right now I'm playing as Byzantium trying to recreate the ancient Roman Empire. I'm still learning though (for example I went to war with the Ottoman Empire and defeated them very badly but when I settled peace with them I some how gave all the provinces that I'd conquered to my allies instead of me when all they did was sent 1000 troops to help me. I was kind of angry when I struck a peace deal and all the land I'd captured suddnely turned blue and red instead of purple! now I'm surrounded by allies but have very little land of my own still (making it hard to raise an army.) so all the losses I suffered in the war were for nothing and now the Ottom Empire is being split up between every local power without me getting any :( Of course I cant' declare war on my military allies so now I have to wait for them to declare war on each other or something and swoop in to take as much land as I can)) ) O.o

    I still don't get how EU 3 is so diffrent from EU 2. vinraith has stated EU2 is more historical but I don't really get what that means in terms of gameplay :P

    • Vinraith says:

      The main difference is that EU2 has hundreds if not thousands of historical events, which trigger based on various conditions being met. AGCEEP (and FTG) add thousands more, so you’re looking at a game that’s going to proceed in a much more historical way around you than a typical game of EU3 (which tends to go dramatically off the rails much faster).

      The idea is to create a more accurately historical environment for you to create alternate history in. EU3 provides more-or-less complete freedom for each country to go its own way beyond the historical starting conditions, EU2 (and moreso FTG) attempts to nudge everything in roughly the direction it actually went, while still providing the option for the player to go their own way (and a chance that any given AI nation will go an unexpected direction as well).

      If that’s still not clear, just go play the thing, EU2’s got to be cheap as dirt by now and knowing how to play EU3 I’m sure you’ll have no trouble with it. :)

  11. Nimic says:

    This isn’t made by Paradox, of course. It’s an initiative (or something) where Paradox let modders have access to their entire code for EU2, and let them release it.

  12. Railick says:

    I think I finally get what you're talking about. I've noticed very few events in EU3 and most of them seem to be random because diffrent countries get them each time I play. Also yah it was a bit odd for the Ottoman Empire to get wasted by Byzantium and a bunch of other little nations right off the bat ;P In all the historical maps the Ottoman Empire is rather huge but after a few years it was down to like 2 provinces :P

    Also I cracked a joke before in another thread that one of Magna Mundi's feature points was "It's got Jews" but now that I think about it they certainly are missing. Not sure why Jewish religion didn't show up in the game along with the vast numbers of other religions ect.

    I really want to try EU: Rome because I loved Rome:Total War (even more than M:Tw 2 just because Legionaires look aweseome marching in giant rows and colloums , they gots shiney armours ^_^ )

    • Vinraith says:

      Exactly. In EU2 (and moreso in mods like AGCEEP) each country has a number (often a large number) of country-specific, scripted events triggered by various historical situations. When these happen you usually have several choices as to what to do. Option 1 will be the historical action, which the AI will choose 90% of the time. The other options will usually be plausible alternative outcomes.

  13. Railick says:

    So the mod MM actaully makes EU3 more like EU2 and appears to add an awesome map ? :)

    I wonder if anyone has made a mod for M:TW2 to make it Rome Total war but with updated graphicals. hrmmm will have to look into that. Nothing, for me, beats a line of roman soliders with their giant shields an sword swords tossing pillium into hordes of gualic barbarians :) Other than maybe huge armies of Phallanxs marching in perfect order

  14. Frankie The Patrician[PF] says:

    eh, I must admit I rage quit Europa Universalis after doing a bit of the tutorial thingie…*shivers*

  15. Railick says:

    I've raged uninstalled HOI3 3 times now ;) I'm going to reinstall it when I get home and give it another try because I REALLY want to like it
    I own EU, EU2, EU3 Complete, Victoria, and HOI 2 anthology and HOI 3 and only played EU3 so far :P
    I got EU When it first came out becasue it looked awesome but then I could never get past the tutorial, probably spoiled by Shogun:Total War and that sort :P . Got EU2 thinking certainly this must be even better than EU, this time I will certainly dedicate myself to learning it, gave up in a day :P
    Got HOI 2 after seeing it on RPS , gave up after 30 minutes to an hour of trying to play. Got HOI 3 because I saw it on RPS and was told it was easier (what a bunch of lies lol) I'd like a mod for HOI3 that makes the map and units all 2d or something. I really like the idea of frontages and unit limits in provinces that can allow you to create long front lines across several countries (like what really happened) it's just to hard.

    Shadowcat “It hammers at my retinas like an evil woodpecker of pure energy”

  16. Railick says:

    I've never finished an entire tutorial before and known less about the game after I finished then before I started :P until EU

  17. Oak says:

    Since we’re on the topic, HOI3 is 50% off on Steam this week.

  18. DMcCool says:

    I’ve always WANTED to get into these Paradox games, I played one of them once and found..urgh…it wasn’t turn based. IT WASN’T TURN BASED. I couldn’t find any option to make it turn based

    Are they all, um..not turn based? I think this would be my favourite series of all time if they’d just let me have bloody turns.

    • fabamatic says:

      They are all played in real time, but you can play them in a very slow realtime.

    • DMcCool says:

      That is horrific. Such a shame, I would probably own every single one of their games and even get my friends into them if they were just…turn based. Every facet of their design seems tailored to making me fall in love with them.
      And then they are real-time so I can never actually get in the strategy game frame of mind, always have to be panicking and second guessing myself. Its so sodding unrealistic.
      Like a king wouldn’t have days to ponder his strategy on any matter. Time to sit alone and ponder any action.

      With a timer of any sort I can’t get into the strategy game frame of mind and slip instantly into the panicky RTS one. Which is fine but…different.

      Basically if Creative Assembly and Paradox were to merge I probably would never bother playing any games by anyone else.

    • Vinraith says:

      Speaking as a turn based strategy gamer, I can’t comprehend your problem. You can run them fast, run them slow, or run them paused. You can do anything you want paused, and then run the clock forward until something requires interaction, then pause and issue again. This is the way many, many people play and it basically IS turn-based, it just allows you to control the length of a turn. There's certainly all the time you could ever want to ponder, and no need to ever panic about time, since the game clock only advances when you tell it to do so. Try a demo or something, I think you have the wrong impression about how these games play.

    • DMcCool says:

      I swear the demo I played did not allow you to actually do anything when paused. If the games do, then, oh dear…

      There goes my free time.

    • Vinraith says:

      I’m not aware of a Paradox-developed game that does not allow you to issue orders when paused, I’d be right there with you complaining about their real-time-ness if that was not the case. I can personally vouch for EU2, Crusader Kings, Hearts of Iron 2, EU3, Victoria, and EU: Rome in this regard (as I’ve actually personally paused and isued orders in each of those) but I’m given to understand they’re all that way.

      Have fun. :)

    • Oak says:

      I think I see where he’s coming from. You’d assume, from a description of a typical Paradox game, that it’s turn-based: big scale, long timespan, no tactical battles. Lots of time spent reviewing information and waiting for things to happen.

  19. Railick says:

    Though they are real time they might as well be turn based to be honest. Things happen in numbers of days and the speed setting controls how fast days pass. For example calvary units move from one province to another faster than infantry if they are alone , based on a certain number of days. This is little diffrent than moving from one square on a board to another and using up a certian amount of movement points ect :P Even the battles in EU3 are phase based with horses doing more damage on the first 5 turns (Shock phase) then the infantry doing more damage for a certain amount of turn (Fire phase, which is odd because when the game starts you don't have guns)

    You can also ways pause the game and EU 3 at least goes forward pretty slowly unless you crank up the juice. HOI3 actaully advances by the hour instead of by the day so it is even slower! :( It even shows where the sun is up and where it is night on the map ect.

  20. Railick says:

    Well you can pause the game and it goes very very slowly. There is no need for twitchy game play. For example it can take a YEAR to build a Carrack in EU3 , if you clicked to build it 1 or 2 seconds later it isn't going to make any difference :P

    the battles take a while to resolve as well and when they do you've got plenty of time to choose what to do with your army. For example if you route a force of infantry but don't totally destroy it with your cal very units you've got plenty of time to pause the game and order your cal very to go to the same province they are retreating to so that when they arrive they get attacked right away before they can recover morale :P

    Also you have a pretty good amount of time to assist units caught up in a losing battle by moving in other troops (battles can take game days) Even more so with ship battles I've been able to move my entire fleet from the Med sea to the British channel it takes sea battles so long to finish :P

    You really should just give EU3 a try, it was very easy for me to get into and that is really saying something. There is less events popping up all the time which is one of the things that scared me about EU2 now that I think about it. I was constantly wondering what I was doing wrong and how these events popping up effected me (in most cases they probably don't) Everything is really slow and calm and you can ALWAYS pause the game and make changes to any settings for your country and give orders to your troops and change laws, que up soldiers to be recruited ect.

    It is even really easy to decide what kind of troops to build and how many since most countries will have a low man power limit. Just us that up and station your armies in provinces that have more support than you have units (like if it says it supports 14 units that means it can support 14,000 troops without any of them dieing off from starvation)

    The wars in EU3 are probably some of the most intersting I've had in any game. It is more like real life where having troops standing on a piece of land doesn't mean you own it! Even if you totally destroy someones army and capture every city you still have to make a peace treaty with them and in that treaty you can decide if you're going to totally annex them or just make them a vassel or take some of their provinces. The options in peace are vast really.

    For example if you defeat France but don't want to actaully take any of their provinces because you've already got enough you can instead force them to release nations they've previously conquered making them weaker! (and easier to beat next time) Or you can take a few provinces you want and force them to give up claims on those provinces so they won't have a reason to go to war with you in the future ect. Or force them to release another country from being a vassal (so you can make them a vassal hehe)

    • Vinraith says:

      “Well you can pause the game and it goes very very slowly.”

      Actually when it’s paused it’s completely stopped.

  21. Nakki says:

    While I haven’t played For the Glory, I have to say I was rather dissapointing.

    It’s pretty much Europa Universalis 2 with a bunch of free mods and some updates that will make single player more enjoyable.

    Sadly Europa Universalis 3 with all it’s addons (it’s a horrible game without them) outperforms Europa Universalis 2 and most probably For the glory in every single way apart from graphics and possibly the events for single player. You could implement them in EU3 too, though, and I got to agree some of the events in EU2 were quite ridiculous sometimes – like modernized world leading Poland getting the historical stagnation and partition events.

    Well, along with graphics For the Glory could’ve won EU3 with music if they could’ve used the original Europa Universalis 2 music, but sadly licencing was too expensive and they used the same boring and generic music as EU3. Personally I use EU2 soundtrack with EU3.

  22. James Allen says:

    I play EU3 on two speed: max speed and paused.

  23. Nimic says:

    EU2 is a great game, but EU3 is simply better. I was part of the “EU2 > EU3” crowd for a long time, but with IN (In Nomine, a small expansion), it’s really almost as good as it gets. And they’re making another small expansion! (Note, they’re making the expansion only after posting a poll on the official forums asking us if we really wanted another expansion, as they had a few ideas they thought would be worth it. The results were massively in favour.

    • Vinraith says:

      The EU2/EU3 thing is a false dichotomy. They’re different enough games that they can peacefully coexist, and they both have their strengths.

      And yes, I was pleased to hear about the new EU3 expansion too.

  24. Pod says:

    So how is this different from EU2/EU3?

  25. Silverhood says:

    It’s just a mod that’s been released as a standalone game.
    If you want a good time in EU3, I’d recommend the Magna Mundi mod. If vanilla EU3 is banging the rocks together to make fire, then MM is nuclear fusion.

  26. Andrew Dunn says:

    I think I would like to play this game. I love me some EU3 (with In Nomine, it’s at least Nuclear Fission, though I’ve never got on with Magna Mundi) and I’m a big fan of more historically-driven Paradox games. 10,000 historical events sounds orgasmic.

  27. Railick says:

    I just got EU:Rome, have to say the map is mind blowingly beautiful ! :)