Q3 > UT

Quake Live is one year old. Officially, anyway, because it had a big old beta before then. And years and years of being a commercially released game before that. So it’s really very old, but sporting a new haircut and trendy jeans. Anyway, Id are celebrating that anniversary with some kind of event, and with a new map. Still no Spider Crossings on the CTF roster though, which is the only birthday present I care about. I still play on here fairly regularly too, those red and blue flags are in my blood. Sigh.


  1. Seniath says:

    Q3 > UT? This man speaks the truth.

    • Man Raised By Puffins says:

      UT r0x, Q3 5u><

      (although in truth the purity of Q3 appeals to me more these days; unfortunately I'm terrible at it)

    • mrmud says:

      It is indeed the truth.
      Q3 might just be the best multiplayer fps of all time.

    • PHeMoX says:

      Wow, hold on! Q3 is definitely NOT the best multiplayer game of all time.

      It’s easily one of the worst when it comes to team matches, CTF and so on. They had to release Q3 Team Arena and still failed at grasping what makes a balanced team-based game.

      Deatmatch is good, but Unreal Tournament has always beaten it when it comes to level design, amount of levels and generally interesting gameplay. Look at how Unreal Tournament introduced vehicle warfare and the ultra-cool other gameplay modes. It easily beats the crap out of Quake 3, Quake 4 and especially Enemy Territory Quake Wars.

  2. LewieP says:

    This is pretty crazy:
    link to engadget.com

    • Schaulustiger says:

      I gave it a shot yesterday and was pleasently surprised at how smooth it ran.

      Q3 on my smartphone, now we truly live in the future, guys!

  3. Colthor says:

    Nah, UT was always better.

    /10-year-old holy war.

  4. sigma83 says:

    aha, but WHICH iteration of UT?

    • Doctor Doc says:

      It’s obviously better than UT 2003/2004/3. UT99 and Q3 is up the personal preference (that’s right, that first sentence was a fact) but I can enjoy both and I like QL a lot better than Q3 (it’s in the details).

    • Colthor says:


      The first one was the best, I reckon.

    • PHeMoX says:

      Both UT2003 and UT2004 are easily better than Quake 3, no question! It had more modes, vehicles and nicer levels. Gameplay is fast and visceral. I don’t see why Quake 3 would beat that when it doesn’t even come close.

  5. Bob says:

    Couldn’t get into Q3 Live, I’m too much of a Soldier of Fortune 2 fan! Even TF2 is left collecting dust due to me still playing it lol Just wish they would put it on Steam or GOGso there would be some new players

  6. DXN says:


    I just threw up in my mouth a little.

    No, wait. I just threw up out of my mouth a lot.

    No. NO. NO. NO. NO. You are wrong. WRONGEDY WRONG. Your brain is stupid and you can probably only think stupid thoughts. You’re stupider than a box of dogs. You’re stupider than a box of TEN dogs. Someone probably threw you in chemicals or hit you on the head and on the chest with an oar. You probably got brain damage from saying so many wrong things all the time or radiation. Your opinion is wildly divergent from reality and it makes me EXTREMELY UNCOMFORTABLE TO BE READING YOUR ELECTRONIC WORDS. Someone should throw you off of a thing. Someone should insult your possessions and your visage. SOMEONE SHOULD SET FIRE TO YOUR SHOES.

    • sigma83 says:

      I do think it’s quite telling that there have been 4 UT games and only one Q3.

      I think the Quake folk nailed it on the first go. I personally like UT more, with, UT 99 and UT 2004 being my personal favorites of that franchise.

    • AndrewC says:


    • LOL says:

      “I do think it’s quite telling that there have been 4 UT games and only one Quake THREE.”

      Quite telling… about your mental retardation.

    • sigma83 says:

      I’m gonna open this one up to the polls. What do you folks reckon I should do about LOL here?

    • deanimate says:

      Each of you hug a kitten and have a chat over a cup of Earl Grey while each kitten plays with ample wool on the table :)

    • AndrewC says:


    • sigma83 says:

      Ew, tea.

    • deanimate says:

      Milk then.

    • DJ Phantoon says:

      The only thing UT had was the ridiculous nuclear missile launcher you would control after firing it directly and with enough skill could snipe anyone anywhere with it.

      Oh and the teleporter, I guess. Other than that, it was Quake for those with ADHD.

    • PHeMoX says:

      Quake 1, Quake 2 also had multiplayer, but that doesn’t matter. Quake 2 multiplayer still beats Quake 3 Arena.

      All Quake 3 Arena really did, was try to turn the Quake franchise into a tournament-like game too.

      Too bad UT already did a much better job at being exactly that.

      I’m pretty sure that’s why they have focused on SP in Quake 4 again for sure and let Raven Software do Quake Wars. Truth be told, that game pretty much fails in comparison to the excellent but critically received Unreal Tournament 3.

  7. Tweakd says:

    It’s been a great year for QL, I imagine this next year will bring the masses private servers. Something I am eagerly awaiting.

    And yes QL > UT

  8. Tweakd says:

    Jim care to share your QL nick?

  9. videogangs says:

    Quake 3 and Team Arena all the way for me. I remember playing this on my Windows ME (ugh I just threw up in my mouth a little) machine, telephone extension cable stretched all the way up the stairs :)

    Something about UT just never felt as pure to me, I remember getting so hyped up about the massive preview in PC Gamer my 13 year old self nearly crapped themselves! I’ve recently removed UT3 from my machine too. I want to like it, I really do but I think if Epic don’t love their own game how am I meant to!

    Still wtb new Quake game in the setting of the first one, maybe minus the faecal colour scheme and definately no Raven dev team…

  10. remover says:

    I wish I could enjoy Quake Live.

    Graphics and things aren’t everything, but every time I tried to play, I was soooo put off by it’s 1990 looking graphics.

  11. CMaster says:

    I’ve always been a UT boy. Quake 3 kept to the tradition of me not liking any games in the Quake series (or indeed to Doom one). That said, while UT nailed DM best of the series, UT2004 made the game more fun (if adding uncesseary crap as well). Then UT3 was just well, not right, much like UT2003 was.

  12. Nimic says:

    I liked Quake 3, but I loved Unreal Tournament. I’d put both UT99 and UT2k4 above Q3.

  13. diebroken says:


    (see what I did there? :P)

  14. Pew says:

    Oh Quake vs. UT argument, how I love thee from the PC Gamer UK forums in the late 90’s. Come to think of it, I can’t remember my forum name from those days for the life of me…

  15. er910 says:

    Even though UT99 is a great game and had more features, I clocked more hours in and made more custom maps for Q3. QL is fun, I just don’t have time to play it.

  16. robrob says:

    Bizarrely, unlike previous posts, you missed the “not” out of the title.

  17. Kakksakkamaddafakka says:

    Q1 > Q3 > UT

  18. Nick says:

    Q3 ROX UT SUX!

  19. zornbringer says:

    i was always the quake fan. no matter what part, i played them to perfection. or at least my definition of perfection. when the first ut came out it was fun and different to quake. but whats very important for me is the art style and the level design. and ut never had any of these better than what id software did with quake.

    also i think quake3 has the best gameplay in a first person shooter till now. the movement, the speed, rocketjumps and whatnot.

  20. Kieron Gillen says:

    I do like that this debate still rages.


    • Mr_Day says:

      I can’t believe one of you deliberately got it going again.

      Or can I?

    • sigma83 says:

      What debate? The chips have fallen on either side of the ‘purist deathmatch’ and ‘action shooter’ divide long ago methinks.

    • Flameberge says:

      Definitely not a debate. No one is going to change their opinion, or even trying to change the other side’s opinion. I think the term “argument” or “holy war” would be more accurate!

      And for the record: UT > Q3

    • BigJonno says:

      Agreed, it’s never going to be settled. One side prefers Q3 and the other side is clearly right.

    • Nick says:

      I frequently change sides, like the man with no name.

    • LionsPhil says:

      Kieron, people still argue over operating systems (even within the Windows camp, between XP and 7, for crying out loud), games consoles, UNIX text editors, and which pretend sky-people supposedly actually exist.

      Stupid arguments with a severe defecit of facts and little relation to genuine debate are a natural part of humanity. At least stupid computer ones involve participants too glued to their screens to do anything as physically demanding as migrate up to violence.

    • Sucram says:

      ST > Amiga

    • Heliocentric says:

      @sucram GTFO

  21. tapanister says:

    O no you didn’t!!!1

  22. bill says:

    UT99 > Q3 > UT2***

    • bill says:

      UT99 was the only unreal i liked. And Q3 was the only quake I didn’t like. Go figure.

    • dingo says:

      right on brother.
      Let me add:

      UT CTF Instagib > all

      Maps: CTF_2Fort, CTF_AndAction

  23. jon_hill987 says:

    I always liked the Valve port of Quake 1 Deathmatch to the Half-life engine. Deathmatch Classic.

  24. Kast says:

    Ah Unreal Tournament. How do I love thee, let me count the ways: Phobos, Face, Deck, “M-M-M-M-ULTIKILL!” Quake 3 is admittedly a brilliant and frantic experience that drills right into the adrenal glands and sets them up to 11 but it couldn’t match the glorious tactical ballet of the Tournament.

    Just try submitting anything for a computer games design course in Q3’s engine, see how far that gets you. Much love for UT3 here, just for the editor and assets! Not that I actually, you know, play it all that much… though strangely I have begun playing it again lately.

  25. Wulf says:

    I liked the original UT but I wasn’t fond of any UT after that, I enjoyed Q3, too, love the Live version.

    I wish there was some system where they could allow for custom models, but I can understand why such a feature would be too hard to implement. It’s a shame though, the stuff I romp around with in Live is boring compared to my collection of player models for Team Arena.

  26. JonnyBase says:

    Quake baby! Rocket jumping to the mooon!

  27. Magic H8 Ball says:

    Jim Rossignol said:

    Q3 > UT

    Riveting tale, old chap.

  28. Kari says:

    UT 4 LYFE

    (the original at least)

  29. -Spooky- says:

    Unreal vs Quake vs Source Engine? Come on .. serious?

  30. Tei says:

    TDWTF style of comment:

    I want the source code of the engine of that screenshot, to fix the particles. Man… a big sprite for the explosion, that clip on the ground. A trail made of “puffs” of smoke. And no, don’t think this is cheap on your netbook graphic card, because this style of particles will ask too much fillrate of your card. /nerd-ism off

    Also, my captcha is UT-SF

  31. FernandoDANTE says:

    The title of this piece is bullshit.

    Quake Live is also bullshit, as I was never able to run it.

  32. Jesus says:


    Even my apostles agree.

  33. DarkFenix says:

    I always hated Q3, but always loved UT. Not the shitty sequels, but the original UT. Fantastic game.

  34. the_fanciest_of_pants says:

    UT1 shall always be the TRUE prophet.

    Let none of these slanderous blasphemies trouble your thoughts, true believers!

  35. Wulf says:

    I wonder if in 2099 our grandkids will have holy wars over this? Each team starts from their own church, and from there they battle on, trying to take their opponent’s ground. The amazing Science of clone respawners will allow them to fight on (with authentic weapons from their church of choice) until this most holy of questions is answered, with the capture of the sacred flag.

    Someone should make a Source mod about that.

    (Also, blessed be the edit button.)

  36. Brumisator says:

    Really, Q3 is a great, but this quake live is garbage.
    The technical side I mean, you have to download all kinds of crappy stuff every time you want to play.

    I find it much more convenient to use my dusty old Q3 CD.

  37. deanimate says:

    Ahh, r_picmip 10. Good times :)

  38. El_MUERkO says:

    UT > Q1, Q2, Q3, Q3A, Q3TA


  39. LionsPhil says:

    I am glad to see such a loyal outpouring of vigilant believers in Liandri’s finest high-impact sport to decry the foul pornography of lies being spread by this heathen “Jim” fellow.

    Also, all the UT99 > UTlater sentiment. +5, correct. It’s amazing how much flabbier they feel when played in comparison—and how much more like Q3’s obsessively tuned, precision-engineered, über-hardcore deathmatch they make UT99 feel.

  40. strangemoore says:

    UT 4 LIFE

    … is what the tattoo says above my butt.

  41. Bart says:

    One more vote fot UT. I loved the atmosphere and furious gameplay of the original Unreal Tournament, heck, I even played it on a netbook recently (I won’t post it here, but if you click on my name, you can find the appropriate post on my blog). For me it is an unparalleled experience that makes Quake III look and feel bland. There, I said it.

    QL didn’t do it for me. First it was long waiting in the queue, then it was boring-as-fuck tutorial, then it was trial shootout with annoying bot that changed from mellow pacifist into ruthless killer in last thirty seconds of match, effectively doubling my score and leaving me with my jaw on the floor, then it was MORE waiting, because levels had to load, then it was EVEN MORE waiting in the queue and then QL lost my cache / cookies / server-side data / whatever, because I had to redo the whole tutorial / first bot combo. I was seeing red at that time.

    After all that it turned out to be an online port of ten year old game that for me was ‘meh’ back then and even more ‘meh’ in the current day. Tried a couple matches, played against friends and some online personas, quit it and never came back. I did have one or two UT deathmatches in the meantime and they were still fun, though.

  42. Rohit says:

    Been a UT fan for a while, but tried Q3 recently and definitely appreciate its minimalist approach. The game just works.

    Still, that these two games are still being debated over 10 years later shows how great both are, especially compared to today’s shooters.

  43. Diogo Ribeiro says:

    I appreciated Unreal Tournament; wasted some hours on that, even going so far as choosing Instagib mode and spawning so many enemies on a map that the chorus of their dying screams and the torrent of fake blood was too much to handle and I quit after coming up with 999 kills in a map.


    Quake 3.

    The raw, minimalist approach.

    The meatiness of the weapons.

    The flashes of carnage and red whenever I tried to sleep.

    The afternoons spent tossing school books aside and created crappy skins all derived from the main ones.

    The hours and hours of wasted youth.

    The flames of would-be rail gun experts when I blasted them into kingdom come. The long lines of text describing sexual violence against my family – past, present and future – after a well timed rocket jump followed by another near perfect rocket launch got in the way of someone jumping successfully over a lava pool.


    Another gaming addiction caused by someone who is no longer a part of my life, unfortunately.

    God, those were the days.

    • neolith says:

      I wish games today would offer the simple accessibility to skins and models Q3A did. Man, the fun we had having matches with our own creations still stands unchallenged…

    • Radiant says:


      The full of range emotions in 3 phrases:


  44. Jad says:


    I guess my problem with Quake 3 was that I played enormous amounts of Quake 1 (didn’t get into Quake 2), and Q3 was different enough from Q1 to feel … not quite right, but not as different as UT, which was its own wild and crazy game.

    To me, UT distilled the see-man-aim-shoot dynamic to its purest essence with the Instagib mutator. I loved how insane that turned things, it turned the game into some kind of Zen experience, when you tried to shut down as much competing thoughts as possible. It felt like your eyes saw an enemy come into view and send the orders to shoot directly to your hand, bypassing your brain entirely.

    Quake Live has an instagib mode, which is great. I don’t know when that was added to Q3 — maybe it was there from the beginning; I don’t remember it. But the levels aren’t designed for that kind of gameplay as much as UT seemed to be.

    Anyway:id, bring me Quakeworld Live!

  45. Koldunas says:

    Way to go, RPS. Ignite a comment war on a trivial post with just five symbols in the title, which don’t have anything to do with the post itself. :]]
    Oh, and as a true UT believer, I condemn RPS and from now on, shall never visit it again.

    • CMaster says:

      I think it’s all in good humour, with said title designed to spark exactly this reaction.

  46. Radiant says:

    Can we please have a moratorium on the phrase “I just threw up in my mouth a little”.

    What exactly do you want us to do with that bit of information?

  47. Wulf says:

    All this talk of UT99 is making me want to install it again.

    And a bunch of mods.

    So that I’d have a squirrel running around fragging people and yelling like in a nasally English voice about how he’s going to scoop the hearts of his opponents out with a spoon.

    In fact, I think I still have those mods on a backup disc, somewhere…

    • ascagnel says:

      Infiltration by Sentry Studios: STILL the best UT99 mod ever. It was OFP and ArmA before OFP and ArmA were games.

  48. invisiblejesus says:

    I wrote a poem just for this thread:

    Lo, noble UT
    stands ‘lone atop the food chain
    Quake 3 is 4 newbz

    Thank you, thank you, and thank you. *bows*

  49. Lambchops says:

    Oh Jim, you shit stirrer, you!

    Not that I’m going to rise above it – UT was better and following the turnabout rules of UT games (first one brilliant, 2003 rubbish, 2004 brilliant, UT3 mediocre) the next one is going to be a beauty.

    • PHeMoX says:

      If you think 2003 was rubbish, but 2004 brilliant, then you obviously don’t know how 2003 = 2004 except for the vehicle-based gameplay.

      Also UT3 is not mediocre, the graphics might be ‘too different’ for some, but the gameplay still kicks ass bigtime.

      To be honest, I don’t see how people can be so stuck in the past thinking about Quake 3 Arena, when every UT game ever released beats it on all fronts. Yes, that’s a seriously claim, but I really think so! xD

    • Lambchops says:

      The weapons balance wasn’t quite right with UTk3 and a lot of the maps weren’t up to the same standard as UTk4 (though once some map packs were released that wans’t such a big issue). Plus the vehicles were a revelation at the time. Oh and UTk4 had assault.

      As for UT3, I just never took to it. i suppose mediocre is a bit harsh but I just never felt the urge to play it that much (bear in mind I spent a lot of time just messing around with bots – somehow that just wasn’t as much fun in UT3 as it was back in the older games).

  50. SwiftRanger says:

    UT > UT2k4 > Q3 > Q4, in the end though they were all worth playing.

    • PHeMoX says:

      I would change it into this: UT original > UT3 > UT2k > UT2003 > Quake 1 > Quake 2 > Quake 3 > Quake Wars > Quake 4 .

      Mind you this is all about MULTIPLAYER. I thought Quake 1 was the best single player game in the Quake universe.