CCP Show Off Fanciness

These are some small step for a lady in a dress.

I’ve been meaning to post this for the last few days, since one Mr Brett mailed us about it. Basically, CCP have blogged about their current work with their Carbon Framework which powers their games, and shown off some of the things they’re doing with soft fabrics. There’s lots of tech stuff here for those who can count above ten to chew over, but the rest of us dullards will just be staring at the prettiness.

I look forward to a you-will-go-to-the-ball sim from CCP in future.


  1. kedaha says:

    Video was uninspiring, already seen better in games and neither hair nor clothes seemed to move with the person properly

    • Serenegoose says:

      Err, what game?

    • T? says:

      Um.. in what? Fairly sure I haven’t.

    • T? says:


    • Serenegoose says:

      Jinx?! I posted 2 whole minutes before you! That’s just….

      Well, it’s just…. Bad form, really.

      BAD FORM.

    • HidesHisEyes says:

      I’ve seen better animations, but not better ingame ‘on the fly’.

    • T? says:

      I am a fool who should’ve checked the timestamp. I AM SORRY *cries*

    • T? says:

      “I’ve seen better animations, but not better ingame ‘on the fly’.”

      I think that’s rather the point. if this were the current state of pre-rendered tech it would be a sorry state of affairs.

    • perilisk says:


    • kedaha says:

      Havok Cloth tool didn’t look as “shiny”, but looked far better than this in practice as it actually seemed to be attached to the person wearing it.

      This video, neither the hair nor the clothes seem to really move with the person and look terribly fake.

    • Muzman says:

      I dunno how anyone could say that looks wrong unlesss it’s a case of being more accustomed to the fake stuff and forgetting what reality looks like.
      It’s pretty good. I still don’t know why animation and physics in games (and movies sometimes, even now) have to have that slightly slo-mo look. Probably to be showy. But it happens so much I think animators have forgtten that’s not how it works

    • Foxfoxfox says:

      exaggerating movement in animation to ‘sell’ it as real has been a common technique since the Tex Avery days. Complete naturalism in animation tends to be a little underwhelming for alot of narrative applications, just as complete naturalism in dialogue and physical acting is rarely used in cinema.

    • dethgar says:

      I’ll give you the hair, it’s not that great, but not horrible either. The clothing seemed totally realistic to me, especially on the stairs.

    • Carda says:


      Yeah, there’s a trope for that. link to

      Fair warning to anyone who hasn’t visited this site before: Set aside at least two hours of uninterrupted time.

  2. Tei says:


    Anyway the question is. WHY.

    If you don’t use this for a game, then is “useless”

    • Serenegoose says:

      CCP being a games company, I do rather suspect that using it in a game is the ultimate point.

    • Stijn says:

      link to has tons of info on this (and is 2 years old, weird enough)

    • DrGonzo says:

      Judging from the style I would hope this would be used in their upcoming Vampire mmo.

    • Azhrarn says:

      That technology isbeing used in EVE’s Incarna expansion and after that in World of Darkness (which CCP is developing with White Wolf).

      Incarna has always been destined as the testbed for technology to be used in WoD, hence the look of the model. And yes, it’s supposed to do all that in real-time either through CPU or GPU (if you’re using nVidia).

    • Teachable Moment says:

      1. Fancy cloth physics and stuff
      2. ??????
      3. Better vidja gaems!

      What, exactly, happens in #2?

    • Azhrarn says:

      @Teachable Moment:

      in number two I imagine they implement it in EVE (since that’s the testbed for the tech) in a non-combat, socialising fashion, giving them time to optimise the way it works, especially with larger crowds.

      Btw, Carbon isn’t the name of the physics stuff, it’s just the framework CCP use to implement it, and other advanced features in the game engine. The cloth/hair physics system itself is called APEX, and was developed by nVidia, Carbon just makes it easier to use for CCP.

  3. Nilokey says:

    Poor clothes would get all messy inside a pod.

  4. Kazang says:

    This video has been out for ages.
    CCP is stagnant.

    • Mugi says:

      Yeah it’s been out since summer last year if not longer ago.

  5. vatara says:

    So there will be space prostitutes when they finally finish the “walking in stations” feature?

  6. stahlwerk says:

    Looks nice, sure, but I gather this is NVIDIA/CUDA only? le sigh. OpenCL has been available for how long now?

  7. ffox says:

    you all seem to be forgetting World Of Darkness Online – developed by CCP.
    this Gamescon vid and the hint for upcoming news on some WoD con in september can’t be unrelated.
    see the clothing style? think of the vampire franchise and it all becomes clear :)

    • Serenegoose says:

      Oooh. I hadn’t thought of that.

    • DrGonzo says:

      Damn you got there before me. I’m quite interested in that game though. But I’m a bit unsure of the licence. It is the same game as Vampire the Masquerade isn’t it? But as far as I’m aware that universe ended and they started a new one.

    • Serenegoose says:

      Requiem is a bit different to Masquerade, but the core concept is the same. Nasty vampires hidden in plain sight living out a nocturnal existence, wrestling with their loss of humanity (metaphorically) and other things that go bump in the night (literally) The key difference is that masquerade is a labyrinth of metaplot and requiem is… well, less so.

    • DrGonzo says:

      Sounds good then. I suppose the bit I liked the most in Masquerade was that Vampires were no longer almighty now that we had guns and technology etc.

    • Diziet says:

      I had not heard of this. I’ll search now… ta muchly.

  8. JWC says:

    Something wrong here. The top half of her hair has no bounce and the bottom half has tons of bounce. She should switch to … a better graphics engine.

    • Taillefer says:

      I think she was the tips weighted for surprise hair attacks as quips “I’ll show you how my ends split”.
      Or something.

    • Taillefer says:

      *as she

    • Kadayi says:

      Agreed. Impressive as it is in some ways it evokes the uncanny valley in others. Still baby steps.

  9. Peter Radiator Full Pig says:

    Are you all mad? Can no one see the true application?

    We can finally have our own swirling capes, to run around in, and be caped.

    Also, villians with realistic swirly mustaches, and capes! Its the best sort of vilan.
    Or vampires who put their capes up to their face before they disappear…

    • DrGonzo says:

      It needs a swoosh round the corner and over the camera button.

    • Taillefer says:

      Yes! Every time we turn around in a first person game it could zoom out into third-person and go into slow motion so we can admire our capes twirl around us like a whirlpool of liquid elegance . It is a great day!

    • Moni says:

      My first 15 minutes of Arkham Asylum consisted of pushing the “swoosh cape” button.

    • sfury says:

      I put on my robe and wizard hat…

    • DigitalSignalX says:

      Agree with stury. We need a bloodninja inspired jrpg porn game with this engine. Immediately.

  10. Manley Pointer says:

    It’s cool that CCP releases tech demos about supposedly amazing new technology they have, while Eve supposedly remains laggy and broken. Which makes this about as impressive as a new video hyping the APB character creator.

  11. pakoito says:

    That hair is almost weightless…other than that, impressive.

  12. Monkeybreadman says:

    Where is the simulated realistic titty bounce? eh? titty bounce…

  13. Laps3d says:

    Unwanted faffing & hype for unwanted technology for unwanted expansion in which subscribers pay to beta test unwanted features for unwanted game.

    PR/Management CCP = worst CCP.

    Don’t want DUST, don’t want Incarna, don’t want WoD!

    Do want less lag, do want unfinished features finished, do want proper support!


    • devlocke says:


      I get where you’re coming from, and the fact that they seem to be disserving their EVE subscribers bodes ill for how satisfactory their other products will be… but seriously, I have no interest whatsoever in playing EVE, while they idea of Dust integrating with it is intriguing and something I’d consider playing, and I’d really like to see a WoD MMO done well, so I’m looking forward to seeing what they come up with.

      Just because YOU don’t want it doesn’t mean it’s unwanted.

    • Dave says:

      @ Devlocke.

      The main thing being were paying for this bullshit to be developed and not for Eve to be maintained. Its the covenant between MMO’s and their subscribers, we keep paying you keep maintaining. For the game to have deteriorated to the level it has is a massive insult to those of us have have been loyal subscribers for years.

      Normally i have alot of time for CCP and rarely jump on the whine bandwagon. To be honest what really gets on my tits is the ineptness they have shown throughout. Bad PR, stupid requests, in game news reporting chronic lag as “spacial anomolies”, daft announcements and devs taking the piss out of it on the forums. Seriously is anybody in charge? Do they even care anymore? is this some giant piss take?

      Nice demo by the way, wheres my rocket boost!?!

    • mandrill says:

      It seems I can’t go anywhere on the web these days which mentions EVE wothout running into “FIX TEH LAAAAAAG” trolls at every turn.


      Try reading the last week’s 5 (yes, count them. FIVE) dev blogs including CCP warlock’s presentation (and her thesis which is linked in the forums, yes she has a PhD) to get a rough idea of the problems they’re up against, even then you still wont be anywhere near being able to say “but they should just do X, that’ll fix it.” CCP are at the bleeding edge of server technology and as such are running into issues that have never been encountered before. This is not a case of throwing more hardware and tech-heads at the problem, its a case of it being an entirely new problem which adding more hardware to will only make worse.

      CCP know about the lag and are working very hard on it with some of the most talented people on the planet, so stop going on about it. It gets very very old.

    • Manley Pointer says:

      @Mandrill: I don’t think the difficulty of solving lag is really the point. The point is that the lag is something CCP themselves introduced. They have patched the game to introduce big new features, but the core gameplay has actually deteriorated. The game wasn’t always this laggy; that’s why trolls on the forums keep asking them to roll back a couple of patches (which everyone knows is impossible).

      It seems to me like CCP’s ambition has always outpaced their technology. They have very well-credentialed people working on their problems, yet they never get their game to the level of “playability” most consumers expect from an MMO (I’m thinking not just of WoW but of LOTRO and Guild Wars). At a certain point you have to stop cutting CCP a break for trying to do such cool things, and deal with the fact that as a consumer, the product you are paying for is often broken.

      Also, for all CCP’s technical ingenuity, they never seem to address some core design issues with their game. The reason I stopped playing (and, anecdotally, the reason some other people I knew quit) was that making money in Eve is an incredibly tedious chore, far worse than in any other modern MMO I have played. CCP is always eager to tell you about the new sort of node they’re implementing on the server, and less eager to address fundamental gameplay issues.

  14. Kirian says:

    The cloth and hair physics seem all wrong, like the hair is a set of solid bits at the top with dangly bits underneath (hur hur hur) that don’t move correctly. Apparently the cloth is underwired badly and has a cardboard lining, with the way it moves.

    I mean, CCP do very pretty spaceships and all but if this is their ‘WOWEE CHARACTER MODEL’ bit I’m not very impressed. Someone mentioned Vampire- it reminds me exactly of the weightless, stilted physics from VtM.

    I hate being cynical. I’m sure KG’ll come up with something witty (or ‘witty’) for the Sunday Papers now.

    • Dhatz says:

      you do realise that there is A HUGE LOT of simplification to this physics just soit ran realtime? We had completely realistic algorithms for flames years ago, but not even todays computers have enough power to see it happen real time and in games. Apex in mafia II even has worse model for Vito’s cloth computation than when turned off, and Lynch’s hair in Kane and Lynch 2 looks and behaves shitty.

    • Lukasz says:

      3d movies take months to be properly animated using superpowerful computers. with millions of dollars of budget, months of time they still f– it up sometimes.

      the animation is not realistic. yet.
      it is progress and it is impressive.

  15. Fergus says:

    Lots of cynicism about it, but honestly … has anyone else done better yet?

  16. Rikard Peterson says:

    I’ve seen the extra material on Pixar’s DVDs, so I expect “interesting” stuff to happen with simulated hair. :)

    • James G says:

      I wonder how similar the algorithms are. Obviously you need something simplified to allow it to run in real-time, it might be that the model they’ve used is such that you won’t get the crazyhair effects seen in some of the Pixar outtakes. I wouldn’t be surprised if the slightly stiff look of the hair/cloth is the result of constraints/limitations in the model, and that such moves may prevent some of the more bizarre behaviours. Than again, I’ve seen even bog-standard physics models go crazy occasionally. Best one being a bizarre bug in Oblivion that occurred just after a save game, if I opened a display case, the items on the self on the other side of the room would launch themselves towards me at high speed.

  17. HRose says:

    24 January 2007: It was vaporware at that time. It’s still vaporware.

  18. fearian says:

    basically this is a realtime cloth simulation demo. Everything else is just nice mo-cap.

    The hair is just another cloth simulation: its not actual hair, its a flat plane with an image of hair applied that has ‘see through’ parts.

    What I’m getting at, is once more people have better video cards, this will be alot more common in games, its already been available for a while.

  19. SlappyBag says:

    Mafia 2demo, Trenchs and the like, its sexy.

    Also uses the nVidia crazy-physics API (Yes thats the technical term).

    • SlappyBag says:

      As in the trench-coats and dresses all flap in the wind when you run etc.

  20. Tetragrammaton says:

    Cool cape tech, rubbish floaty hair. They should really do a FPS centered around the queens coronation.

  21. Slamelov says:

    May be for World of Darkness Online?

  22. Dhatz says:

    if at least the shading of hair and cloth was default in every game! (It would be as awesome as a Tachikoma.)

  23. V says:

    Animators still have job security… for now.

  24. teo says:

    It’s been on youtube for ages, CCP just decided to put it in a devblog because they were desperate to show anything

  25. somnolentsurfer says:

    Now if they can just buy Real Time Worlds’ character generator and combine them, I’ll buy anything they’re selling.

  26. thebox says:

    It might look a bit artificial in the video, but if I saw this stuff in a game, I’d think it was pretty damn cool.

    And to agree with mandrill, I’m sure CCP are very aware of the lag problem and are trying their best to remove it (because, well, everyone seems to complain about it). That it hasn’t been fixed obviously means that it’s very hard to fix with 500,000 people running around on one server.

    • mandrill says:

      its not just that.The whole problem boils down to the mathematics of scaling large scale distributed networks (which is basically what the EVE server is). Everything is hunky-dory as long as there’s not much information being transferred between a fairly small number of network nodes. but if you increase the number of nodes and the amount of information it gets to a point where the sheer volume of data being transferred between the large number of nodes just grinds everything to a halt. Its mathematically built into the network topoloigy and there is no way around it.

      There will always be lag. As one of EVE’s player elected reps said at their recent summit in Iceland “Fleets will grow to fill the lag available.”. There is no way that lag can be eliminated completely (unless some form of instantaneous communication of large amounts of data is invented) but it should be possible to bring it back to pre-dominion levels. There are also game design solutions that can be implemented aswell. Designing the territorial mechanics so that they are not as reliant on HUGE fleets travelling around in big blobs would go a long way to making the 0.0 game a lot more dynamic and varied. We have all these black ops ships and stealth bombers but no-one really uses them because its simply a case of ‘biggest fleet wins’ at the moment.

  27. HawKnee says:

    All I can think of when seeing that is “Please someone make a proper sex simulation game with these FX and GFX, along with an open / moddable characterbase format”.

    And, considering the suggestive nature of this, I think the techdemo people(my money is on most of them being male) agree with me 100%.

  28. Soobe says:


    You can totally tell that’s CG and not real people.


  29. Alikchi says:

    Someday science will discover a way to give us a tech demo without the misogyny

  30. Hmm-Hmm. says:


    • Hmm-Hmm. says:

      Ack! That was supposed to be a response to Monkeybreadman.

  31. Dawngreeter says:

    This is all World of Darkness, by the way. I mean, yeah, the tech is part of CCP’s core systems they are developing for all their games. This in particular, however, uses World of Darkness models. The extended 10 minute video which shows the entire demonstration at one point shows the models being loaded from a World of Darkness directory (or library, or whatever).

    Which means WoD is going to rock. Which we already knew. Still, can’t wait for the Grand Masquerade in New Orleans where it will likely be revealed.

  32. Chris says:

    All I see from the picture at the start is STAIR DISMOUNT!

  33. Anony Mouse says:

    CCP troll best troll.

    CCP has actively broken many parts of the game by introducing new and buggy “features” that barely any of the active playerbase wants.

    Rockets. Faction warfare. Hybrid weapons. POS management. 0.0 fleet fights. Assault frigates. Caldari for PvP. Black ops. Tech 2 ammo. The Mac client, hands down the buggiest piece of software I have ever used, and I used to run Slackware. The terrible UI, and in particular the tiny unreadable font that has actually given people eye problems.

    link to

    In return we’ve gotten… what? RSI-inducing “planetary interaction” – basically a click-and-drag game. Overhauls to the sovereignty mechanic, involving spending hours shooting stationary objects with millions (really) of hitpoints. Eve Gate, aka “Spacebook” – a thorough waste of time except for when the server is down, which is increasingly often. There hasn’t been good new content since Apocrypha, which was released in March 2009.

    And oh dear god the lag.

    So when CCP says basically, “We’re going to take your money and make shit you don’t want while not fixing the game you actually play for 18 months,” it’s a little disingenuous to claim that they are exciting and innovative.

    PS: Incarna is vaporware, Dust is vaporware, WoD is vaporware. Seriously. Prove me wrong.

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