The Sunday Papers

Sundays are for doing this one last time before Jim takes over next week. Well – one last time and a little self-indulgent extra later today you’ll have to wait for. Fine (mostly) gaming reading, collated from across the week, with a desperate attempt to avoid linking to some piece of pop music and then a “Failed” when I inevitably don’t, in a joke I fear most people still don’t get.



  1. Hidden_7 says:

    We’ll miss you Kieron. Sundays won’t be the same without pop-music related failures.

    • Vadermath says:

      Indeed. I demand a RPS merchandise store is created with “WE LOVE GILLEN” shirts in stock.

    • Zuppy says:

      Kieron is a toliet with no seat, flushing tradition down.

    • zombiemaster81 says:

      Wot no Scotsman anymore??? – there´d only be Jim, and whatstheirfaces left!

      well good luck to you out there, was usually good reading !


    • zombiemaster81 says:

      heres my current fave sub-pop/electro routine, not that new but wth : Vocoder to the MAXX !!!

      link to

      baaaabyyyyyyeee Kieron!

  2. Dominic White says:

    About Hydrophobia – I find it very hard to believe that Edge gave it that harsh a review without damn good reason. It takes a lot to push a score down below 5/10 with them. They’ve traditionally given higher review scores to games that other sources would usually overlook or dismiss offhand, too.

    The reviews have been bizarrely divisive, though. IGN loved it, it seems. Wonder how this’ll shake down after a couple more weeks.

    • Diziet says:

      I felt that Edge’s review was unnecessarily harsh. 3/10 is scathing from them and I respect their views normally although I always weight their scores against my personal preferences. I’ve only played the demo on the 360 but my initial thoughts are that it’s an interesting mechanic hindered by ropey controls compared to say Shadow Complex, and unfairly as they are boxed games recent Tomb Raiders and Enslaved. The voice acting could easily grate too. I expect the Edge review was ground down in his enjoyment of the game by the aforementioned issues.
      I’ll get it with the 1200 points I’m due from MS due to a promotion unless a superior game comes out.

    • Man Raised By Puffins says:

      I found it quite a contrast going from the Hydrophobia trial to the Enslaved demo yesterday. Not an entirely fair comparison I know, but the gusto with which Hydrophobia takes you from the merest glimpse of the AWESOME MEGA-SHIP to the drab, dimly-lit bowels is quite something compared to the front-loading of spectacle in Enslaved.

      I’ll get it with the 1200 points I’m due from MS due to a promotion unless a superior game comes out.

      Costume Quest!

    • DrGonzo says:

      I really think Edge would give it a bad review for no reason. They are in my opinion the worst games magazine. Also, I’ve read several Destructoid reviews where he hasn’t played the game properly. For example his review of Edmund. Nearly all of his main criticisms weren’t valid, had he either paid more attention or just completed it he would have known that.

    • Samuel Bass says:

      Or perhaps it’s that Hydrophobia just isn’t all that good?

      That’s certainly the case from my time with the game – played ’til I couldn’t be bothered, and I love third person action/platformers. To me, there doesn’t seem to be any kind of nefarious plot going on here, especially given that, if anything, Edge are biased towards UK devs. Rather, it’s an example of a game coming out, getting (perhaps overly) harsh reviews and the dev throwing a bit of a public strop.

      Nothing to see here folks, move along.

    • Dominic White says:

      The only time I’ve ever wondered ‘What are they smoking?’ after reading a review in Edge was when they gave Zone of The Enders 2 a 4/10 score. The game is otherwise universally considered one of the best action games to ever grace the PS2, and an enormous improvement over the first game (which they gave a 7/10). It was also one of Konamis biggest-budget releases at the time, and a Hideo Kojima production.

      The review was literally half a page, and half of THAT was screenshots. I have a feeling they were short-staffed that month and ended up giving it to a surly intern or something, as the text could be summed up as ‘Too hard, too fast, waaaah’. I have literally never talked to anyone who thought the game was anything short of great.

      Unless they’ve done that again with Hydrophobia (unlikely), then they’re probably on the ball, as usual.

    • Dominic White says:

      Ha – a quick peek at Metacritic reveals that the 4/10 from Edge was the ONLY negative review the game got anywhere. Kinda supports my ‘surly intern’ theory.

  3. nabeel says:

    Failed for the last time. Thanks for all the excellent Sunday compilations, KG.

  4. Metalfish says:

    Maybe Jim can fail us in new and exciting ways?

    • Jim Rossignol says:

      There will be no failure in the new regime. Only victory.

    • BooleanBob says:

      I eagerly await the dozens of impending additions to my collection of favourite indie-obscure architects.

      Thanks for everything Kieron, it was (mostly) utterly fantastic. Although I’m not sure you ever did top that Diablo 2 preview.

  5. subedii says:

    The Team Liquid posts show pretty ideally while the whole “Real ID” thing that Blizzard was trying to push was freaking insane, and could only ever lead to harassment.

    As soon as it’s known someone’s a girl? Forget about it. Let alone Black, Jewish, or any number of nationalities / races / religions.

    The author of the piece pins this primarily on TeamLiquid, but really this behaviour is pretty much endemic across almost all gaming communities. I mean grief, the amount of racism and sexism on XBL alone…

    • Dances to Podcasts says:

      I’m getting the feeling there’s a correlation between the games themselves and the communities they acquire. Why is there such a difference between the communities around MW2 and TF2, for example? I would say the tone of the games has a lot to do with that.

      So considering the kind of game SC2 is, this sort of thing was bound to happen. C’est la ton qui fait la musique.

    • FunkyBadger says:

      Or, once people begin to realise that their online slime trails will follow them round indefinately (e.g. job interviews) then they might start to change their behaviour.

    • AndrewC says:

      Have you read this article? It’s all about what you said, making you double right!

      link to

    • subedii says:

      To be honest, without some statistics and knowledge of what ancillary factors were and weren’t considered, the examples he gives in that article could just as easily be chalked up to confirmation bias.

      Not that I disagree that priming has an effect either. But say for example, talking about the “morality” of test participants after they’ve been primed depends HEAVILY on what their moral viewpoints are before being primed as well. They then use average number of questions answered to ascertain who was cheating and who wasn’t, which is pretty specious in itself. Using that as the basis to say “None of the people who wrote the ten commandments beforehand cheated” is just plain irresponsible.

      I think priming can have an effect, but if you’re looking to shape a community along certain lines, then FAR more important than that is simple moderation.

    • Michael says:

      There’s another Internet staple – doubting peer reviewed studies without reading them.

      Could it be that all the violence in computer games isn’t creating a generation of serial killers, just a community of jerks?

    • Jim Rossignol says:

      I would suggest that being a jerk is one of the most common things associated with being human. The interest in games seems incidental.

    • FunkyBadger says:

      Jim: no one’s ever spoken to me, in real life, with the casual disrespect evident throughout, say, the comment’s on Notch’s blog.

    • DrGonzo says:

      Then your a lucky guy. My friends have a joke about me and how I get attacked by random drunks for no reason when we go out. It’s true, probably just because I look like a wimp, but anyway it’s very similar to someone choosing to harrass you online.

      A game like TF2 is played by geeks mostly, who are also mostly nice and wimpy, not likely to give abuse etc. MW2 is played by lots of chavs, who are aggressive pricks.

    • Dr. Derek Doctors, DFA says:

      @Funky Badger: once people begin to realise that their online slime trails will follow them round indefinately (e.g. job interviews) then they might start to change their behaviour.


      It brings up a difficult question, really. I don’t check up on candidates’ tweeters, face-books, their-spaces or other such and sundry electronical thingamabobberies, because I believe that I could easily find evidence of behavior (political beliefs, out-of-office hijinks, and unfortunate college snapshots) that, while not altering their values as employees, contractors or consultants, could unfairly change my attitude towards them. (Certainly I’m much more, er, blunt in online discussions than I am with my clients. At the least, I don’t usually, in meetings, equate “failure to properly assess kurtosis risk” with “idiots who unthinkingly created the greatest danger to the Western world since Hitler’s 1940 motor-tour.”)

      And yet — say Blizzard instituted RealID. Say that I find a prospective candidate’s postings on the forums, full of misogynistic or racist invective. (I personally would add anti-gay slurs into that category, but let’s concentrate on protected classes under US law.) Congratulations, Urist McAngryMan, I’ve just quietly dropped you from the callback list. But is it fair for me to do so? Bad behavior on a videogame forum is not prima facie evidence that he’s going to be a liability at work. What if the postings were several years old? What if they were made the day of the interview? What if he speaks glowingly of his last manager, an African-American woman who he credits with teaching him everything he knows? Do I discuss these posts with him? Am I increasing my legal liability if I hire him knowing that he has a history of these kinds of statements? Am I being unfair if he’s otherwise a stellar candidate and I don’t hire him?

      I genuinely don’t know, and it bothers me. So much of our lives are lived in the open, while our traditions of social intermediation generally assume a strong wall between the different parts of our lives. I wish I had some kind of hard and fast rule to manage these interactions, but I find that blessed ignorance of my associates’ personal lives is generally the best tactic.

    • Carolina says:

      Has anyone actually done this or do you just substitute than in the moment you hear a female complain?

      Quoting from a commenter on this very same article:

      I guess most men just can’t imagine how a woman feels. okay, I can’t either, but I try at least. :-/

      So yeah, I think that the message comes across like that. A lot. Most of the feminist bloggers are about “enlightening” others —specially men, of course— about the oh-so-subtle-and-cruel methods of the “Rape Culture”, as they usually like to call it.

      I’m a woman. And guess what? I feel just fine. Idiocy annoys me, of course, but I’m not throwing a fit or starting a Jihad every time a moron decides to say something slightly politically incorrect against my gender, because I don’t have unrealistic expectations about people.

      Radical feminists taking every opportunity to push their antagonistic agendas and manufacturing confrontation are not only hypocritical and intolerant; they reek of cultism. Apparently you’re either with or against them. Raging feminazi or subdued housewife. Liberty or death!

      By the way, I’m also a blonde. Should I start demanding censorship over all blonde jokes? Maybe make an angry blog about the Blondschwitz we are currently being subjected to? Down with the Brunette Culture! Viva la Revolución!

      There are real cases of injustice against minorities out there, you know. I’d say we leave the ideological outrage for those, instead of making a scandal about every idiot that dares to mention the female gender in a negative comment.

      I mean, it’s not like what they’re saying is wrong.

      Who’s “they” and what do they say?

      And I’m going to have to take your hyperbole over Alexander’s article as humerous irony since it bears little relationship to what she actually was saying.

      It was humorous in nature, sure; but not ironic. Her rant and the one in question are different, but both share the same characteristic flavor of intolerance and hypocrisy. With a little pint of self promotion in Leigh’s case.

    • Carolina says:


      Nobody is safe from the dreaded Reply Fail.

  6. Zaphid says:

    That drama storm in a teapot was amusing to read. Anyone who is gaming on the internet knows about these issues, especially in the more competitive communities. It’s pretty much “be damned if you do, damned if you don’t” because with one approach you are going against majority of users and you help the drama queens and all those types that feel like being a woman makes them special. The other way eliminates any way of discussing things like this, because that topic can be perceived as dangerous, inflamatory and potentially authorities could be involved. The Hathor blog seems to be adamant that they are never wrong and that the TL admins should edit and delete homophobic posts like they do in their comments, which seems way more dangerous. While they “want” to discuss stuff, they actively delete any posts they don’t like and thus don’t promote discussion on the topic, they just point their fingers and say “you’re wrong!”

    • KikiJiki says:

      And the (I feel reasonable) conclusion to draw from the TL shenanigans?

      Some people have opinions that are offensive to others.

      One could almost say: welcome to life?

    • AndrewC says:

      Do you feel that this shrugged shoulder acceptance of these attitudes is distinguishable from agreement with them?

    • KikiJiki says:

      People are people, and are as entitled to their viewpoints as you are to yours, no matter how distasteful you find them. While they remain opinions what possible justification can you provide for raging at them other than: I say you’re wrong?

      Frankly I find the attempt to homogenise thinking more offensive than the opinions an individual holds.

    • AndrewC says:

      Their freedom to express their views on women directly limits the freedoms of those women to express themselves. Your opinion?

    • Rich says:

      You have the right to an opinion, while I* have the right to not be harassed.
      With freedom of speech comes responsibility, something often forgotten in internetland.

      “Stop winging bitch and get in the kitchen.”
      “Hey, do you mind? That’s pretty damn sexist.”
      “DON’T STIFLE ME!”

      *Not me personally in this case, as I’m a manly man. As a general rule though…

    • KikiJiki says:

      If you feel that what someone posts on a forum limits your ability to express yourself then you need to take a reality check.

    • Rich says:

      Oh? What about their attempts to bully them, and publicly discredit them?

    • AndrewC says:

      The forum is a community. The fact of its existence gives lie to the idea that what someone else posts has no effect on you.

    • Mil says:

      I think this summarises it pretty well:

    • Carolina says:

      Alright, it’s time for some controversy.

      Ah, feminists… gotta love them. Whenever I feel like I’m lacking a perfect example for irony, hypocrisy or idiocy, there’s always a feminist blogger to rescue me.

      She’s somewhat right on one thing, though: those clan guys are morons. But only that: silly little kids. Loaded terms like sexual harassment, misogyny and the ever-present rape word don’t fit them. I doubt they even understand the meaning of those words. They’re just idiots doing their thing. Making a scandal out of it is taking political correctness to even stupider extremes.

      And I’m afraid that the attention whore stereotype isn’t far from reality; whether that’s an inconvenient truth for the “female gamers” —as they like to call themselves—, or not, I don’t care. I’m only describing what I observed in most of my online gaming lifetime.

      The irony in all this is that there won’t be any more attention whores if the very same male gamers that complain about them would stop caring about these girls’ tits, and throwing a party every time a girl claims to like gaming online.

      /prepares shitstorm shield

    • Jack says:

      Something that is possibly relevant here:

      “Much of the web is rude, thoughtless, or chauvinistic. That’s often true of Rock, Paper, Shotgun too, but we’ve gone much further than most other communities in actively cracking down on it. Rather than rely on a crowd-based system of voting comments and up and down, we’ve opted to curtail free speech and employ massive deletions. Create an atmosphere in which trolling and idiocy is not tolerated at all, and it starts to recede.”

      link to

      Rock Paper Shotgun itself does the exact same thing you’re railing against, kikijiri, and you can’t deny it’s created a lovely community.

    • KikiJiki says:


      You’ve got a good point there, and the manner that those posts get dealt with on TL is warnings or bans for the users. Reading through the original blog that started the ‘furore’ there is at least one warned post so far, and a general warning for bans which I think is about as reasonable a response as you can expect. Deleting posts isn’t the way to go in my opinion as Zaphid pointed out at the start of this comment trail.

      I think the posts on this at the Hathor blog really rubbed me the wrong way. Reading them I got a distinct sense of smug superiority and I’ll freely admit I finished reading both of them, started to read some comments and just stopped, shook my head and thought something that I’m probably a misogynist for thinking :P

      Something that makes me wonder though is this: there seem to my eyes to be fewer problems in communities/discussions where gender isn’t revealed/is a non-issue. In a ‘genderless’ internet surely everyone is more equal than if they decide that they need to advertise their gender?

      Before the inevitable ‘this assumes everyone is male’ I think it’s fair to point out that gender isn’t an issue until it’s made so.

    • FunkyBadger says:

      People are people, and are as entitled to their viewpoints as you are to yours, no matter how distasteful you find them

      No, they really aren’t.

    • KikiJiki says:

      @Jack I’d politely disagree to be honest. I don’t get the same feeling of community at RPS than I do at TL, but then again I don’t use the forum.

    • Jack says:

      @ kirijiri No offense intended, but I by “Lovely” I meant “Accepting”. There’s a lot of forums that create a strong sense of community, but do it by promoting hate towards everyone outside of that community. RPS may not feel as much like being part of a group for you, but I feel like it’s a lot more friendly to outsiders.

    • KikiJiki says:

      @Jack again I disagree.

      While RPS doesn’t have the closed community of needing x posts to be worth listening to it has more than it’s fair share of: “your opinion is shit and you’re not worth listening to”.

      It’s a clique in a different manner.

    • Jack says:

      Well, yeah, I suppose you’re right. But there’s always going to be some posts like that, aren’t there? I’m sure RPS isn’t a perfect jewel in the wasteland, but it’s definitely better than TL in regards to the amount of hate. (Well, judging by that thread, which I assume is TL at it’s worst.) And more than that: I am almost POSITIVE no-one’s ever been excluded because they aren’t part of the RPS community. I suppose there’ll probably be one if you trawl through the archives though, unfortunately.

      Personally, I’ve never actually encountered a post that came out and said “You’re an idiot, shut up.” I’m sure you’d be able to drag one up out of the archives, but how many communities can you say that about? Coming onto RPS feels like a breath of fresh air for me.

    • AndrewC says:

      KikiJiki: What do you feel is the relationship between ‘gender is not an issue until it is made so’ and the ‘Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell’ policy of the American Army regarding homosexuality?

    • KikiJiki says:


      I feel that the relationship between ‘gender is not an issue until it is made so’ and the ‘Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell’ policy of the American Army regarding homosexuality is don’t feed the troll.

    • Dominic White says:

      The sheer level of sexism and general misogyny in the gaming scene as a whole is a point of great frustration for me, as it seems that for anyone who speaks out against it, there’s five people lining up to say ‘It’s their right to say what they wanna say’.

      No, fuck that. Supporting and enabling (albeit in generalist terms) is exactly what allows behaviour like that to be thought acceptable, and continue unrestrained. We’ll know things are looking up when someone says something sexist, and 90% of the responses are ‘Not cool, stop it with that shit’. We’re nowhere near that level yet.

      Generally I find ‘zero tolerance’ rules pretty excessive, but in the cases of sexism and racism, I’ll make grudging exceptions. Once it actually becomes near-universally frowned upon behaviour, then the rules can be relaxed, and self-moderation can happen. We won’t be at that point for quite some time yet.

    • Xercies says:

      I laughed at the Misogynistic jokes, does that say i’m sexist?

      I don’t think it does I’ve gotten to the point that i laugh at them not because they themselves are funny but because saying them is absurd in themselves. Because maybe the people saying the jokes believe them or maybe they don’t.

      I actually think all people no matter what their opinion should say there opinion. I’ve had so many thought processes and matters come up from arguments from peole that have racist/misogynistic views or whatever. We should hear them out know what there biases are and know when maybe there speaking some kind of truth that we don’t like to listen to ourselves.

    • El Stevo says:

      So you’re saying that maybe the racists/sexists have a point?

    • Ozzie says:

      >>I laughed at the Misogynistic jokes, does that say i’m sexist?

      No, it just means that you’re a hipster, bu no worries, it’s just as bad.

    • Jack says:

      The usual stance in regards to free speech is to follow the classic quote: “I disagree with what you say, but I will fight for your right to say it.” And that’s fair enough in real life.

      As soon as you take it to the internet, though, I don’t think that quite applies. In real life, there’s enough social barriers to stop most people from saying things that they know most of the people they’re talking to will think is sexist/whatever. Actually using the law to enforce silence would be heavy handed.

      On the internet, that barrier doesn’t exist, and people are free to spout whatever nonsense they please. As well as that, silencing someone on your personal site still leaves them free to talk elsewhere as much as they want. It’s less like enforcing silence, and more like asking someone to leave your home if they’re saying things you disagree with. I think it’s fair enough to kick out anyone who’s discriminating against anyone else on a site.

    • Xercies says:

      @El Stevo

      Maybe some of them do have a point, I’m not saying all of them and i’m certainly these guys on that forum have a point(To be honest I laughed at there misogynistic ways more then thought it was a problem, i do tire at some blogs that walk in a room not expecting it and complaining about it like its a new thing….but there you go) but some of them might.

      I have found myself questioning stuff because some guy who has a sexist/misgynisticc/anti-semite/whatever view actually said something profound or another point of view.

      Many people dismiss some things and i do understand that, i dismiss most things from these people as the hate spewed things they are. But sometimes you can have a totlally different world view or have to look up things to not be ignorent about it. We do not look up these things sometimes and just go on our instinct that “this must be true” Its good to question sometimes, and if a racist or whatever has made you question then so what.

    • Gap Gen says:

      I think forums can be dictatorial and work very well if the power is wielded correctly. The PC Gamer forum under Kieron’s iron jackboot was great. People have freedom of speech legally, but you can still kick people out of your house or business for being offensive.

    • Arathain says:

      “No, fuck that. Supporting and enabling (albeit in generalist terms) is exactly what allows behaviour like that to be thought acceptable, and continue unrestrained. We’ll know things are looking up when someone says something sexist, and 90% of the responses are ‘Not cool, stop it with that shit’. We’re nowhere near that level yet.”

      Dominic gets it. Look, context matters here. Things are improving, but we’re still in a society where many harmful attitudes to women are so reflexive that they’re not even recognised as such. It’s tremendously discouraging. As ever, we fight misogyny in two basic ways- we fight to change rules, and laws in particular to be non-discriminatory. That’s the big stuff. It’s important.

      The second part is also really important. It’s changing the small stuff- what goes on in people’s heads. It’s about pushing back against shit like what we’re seeing here on the TL forums. We have to make it clear that it’s not OK, that there are many of us who see it for that it is. We have to create a change in environment, in the water we all swim in (and breath). It’s slow, and often even more painful than changing the big stuff. But it does work. If we drive so much of the racist crap that’s been endemic for so long into the dank corner marked ‘unacceptable!’ we can do the same for this equally repulsive sexist misogynist slime.

      A common criticism directed at feminists, or racial equality folks, or gay rights folks, or anyone fighting to be treated like a real person goes like: “don’t you have bigger things to worry about than this petty stuff? Why spend your energy here and not on the big rules stuff?” But you can’t just do one. You have to change the way society works, by going after the rule-makers, and you have to change the way people think, by showing them what you think about the petty, hurtful shit they do, where ever they do it.

    • Muzman says:

      I’m kinda fascinated by how plagued by drama queens we all or would be if it weren’t for the bold misogynists keeping them down. They’re a necessary evil you. I get it now.

    • Dorian Cornelius Jasper says:

      KikiJiki admitting to being a TL regular lends an untrustworthy undertone to the posts.

      My only reply is, yes people are dicks. You shouldn’t reward them for being dicks, and it’s perfectly fine to call them out on it. Being a misogynist is one form of dickery, and there’s nothing wrong with cutting that kind of dickitude down a notch.

    • HYPERPOWERi says:

      The Team Liquid stuff is pretty rage-inducing.

      Marginalizing a group is a cheap and quick way of forming a community. It becomes an in joke. It’s also hardly a community you’ll be proud of before the eyes of an outside observer.

      I don’t think it’s fair to dismiss the misogyny as some stupid kids’ antics. It’s pervasive and no less offensive to the victim. As an admin, it’s your role to prevent a member being marginalized for reasons outside of her control.

      A woman pretending to be a man to dodge sexism is the equivalent of a gent from Chatswood dressing in a burlap sack to avoid getting stabbed in King’s Cross. If you’re endorsing it, you’ve just acknowledged that your community is largely scum.

    • Michael Edwards says:

      Kudos @Andrew C for trying so hard with KikiJiri. Those were some incisive questions.
      lol @Muzman

      Here’s the deal all you dudes who are on the fence or on the TL side of this thing:
      I was playing TF2 on a really chilled out server. I guess there was a girl playing and she missed a heal on a heavy. Or something equally inane. So he rages (hell I rage too even on pubs). But then he started calling her a bitch, a whore, and he was about to go on until I told him to shut the fuck up.

      Now, I want you to stop for a moment and reflect. How do you think that girl feels when some random guy she’s never met is screaming that kind of invective at her? I’m asking you for empathy not political correctness. If you can’t stop and for one moment think “Wow, maybe that wasn’t cool for her.” then you are a sociopath. We’re not asking for the world here, we’re asking for selective application of behaviour that is sensitive to the place the other person is in.

    • Carolina says:

      I don’t think it’s fair to dismiss the misogyny as some stupid kids’ antics. It’s pervasive and no less offensive to the victim. As an admin, it’s your role to prevent a member being marginalized for reasons outside of her control.

      Calling like it is does not mean dismissing it. Stupid kids being jerks towards anyone, part of a minority or not, should be discouraged in any online community, at least if you want to keep it moron-free. What I find hilarious is bleeding hearts throwing a cluster of hyperboles to describe such a trivial thing. Without a intro describing the incident, one couldn’t know if they’re talking about a flame war between teenagers or the Maputo Protocol.

      Idiots! Showcasing their idiocy on the Internet! Oh my, how terrible! I’ve never been so outraged since I’ve seen a woman being stoned to death in Iraq! Time to write an angry blog about my rights as a female!

      /jumps into the Femimobile


      My point is, by all means, let an admin take care of them; ban them, ridicule them or take whatever disciplinary action you want. But making a cause out of it and trying to convince men that “you can’t possibly know how hard is to be a woman, boo hoo” is bullshit. It’s just a perfect blend of misandry, bigotry and hypocrisy; ironically enough, the perfect ammunition for the real misogynists out there —you know, those radical dimwits who like to make angry blog posts about the lesser specimens of the other gender—, who will be happy to quote you as yet another example of the emotional and intellectual inferiority of women. And at the very least, it’s preaching to the converted.

      This reminds me of the hilariously bloated, self-centered and basically stupid argument of Leigh Alexander about that irrelevant Hey, Baby indie game.

    • Muzman says:

      “But making a cause out of it and trying to convince men that “you can’t possibly know how hard is to be a woman, boo hoo” is bullshit”

      Has anyone actually done this or do you just substitute than in the moment you hear a female complain?
      I mean, it’s not like what they’re saying is wrong.

      And I’m going to have to take your hyperbole over Alexander’s article as humerous irony since it bears little relationship to what she actually was saying.

    • mrmud says:

      The best forums I have been a part of have always been heavily moderated (such as the Elitist Jerks WoW forum) while the worst forums have always been poorly moderated (such as the official wow forums).

      These are two large forums with tens of thousands of users for the same game but one is (or at least was when I played) the best source of theorycrafting information on the web and the other is a shit pile of enormouse proportions.

    • Carolina says:


      I reply failed. Please refer to my post above for my response.

    • KikiJiki says:

      @Dorian Cornelius Jasper because obviously only filthy misogynists go to TL to post things like “TITS OR GTFO” and nobody ever goes there because they are interested in Starcraft/esports in general.

      @Michael Edwards I really don’t see how asking me about ‘Don’t ask don’t tell’ is insightful at all. If anything it’s a typical bear poking question designed so that I give an answer that means my opinions can be easily dismissed as the ravings of a foaming mouth neoconservative or similar. Frankly given that I’m neither American, gay or employed by the military I don’t even have an opinion on that topic. Not to mention that likening juvenile forum antics to something that the media takes very seriously seems disingenuous at best.

      @Dominic White & Arathain

      Funnily enough what you’re advocating here is just as bad in my eyes as the sexist posts. While I’m sure your intentions are noble you’re trying to force other people into your way of thinking, and indeed are trying to dictate exactly what is/is not acceptable thinking in the given context.

      The problem with this is that it’s wide open to horrific levels of abuse. Say for example that RPS already removes hateful posts and defamatory language. What if they’d decided that nobody was allowed to talk about a particular publisher, or dev studio unless it was in a positive light? Would it then be unacceptable to express an unpopular viewpoint to the contrary on this topic?

      What I was trying to put across originally is that while you might not like what certain people say either on the internet or in real life, you should respect their right to say it. Anything less is simply intolerant, and ultimately self-defeating. You have to actually engage with people openly to get them to change their thinking process and this is nothing new in the real world. You just have to look at the hideous amount of racial or religious prejudice being flaunted about to see where the ‘U R RONG’ line of discussion leads.

    • HYPERPOWERi says:

      The problem with this is that it’s wide open to horrific levels of abuse. Say for example that RPS already removes hateful posts and defamatory language. What if they’d decided that nobody was allowed to talk about a particular publisher, or dev studio unless it was in a positive light? Would it then be unacceptable to express an unpopular viewpoint to the contrary on this topic?

      That’s ridiculous.

      Life’s full of lines drawn in the sand. In my opinion, this one’s worth drawing — just as you would (probably) draw a line at using racial slurs and treating people with contempt because of their race.

      If the RPS community becomes too stringent for your taste — or vice versa — you find another community. Unfortunately, by the looks of things, there are too many communities with a loose threshold of tolerance for sexism.

  7. Tom Camfield says:

    Also, “Team Gillen” would be welcome. Thanks for the Sunday Papers KG! :)

  8. iainl says:

    Wow, the Hydrophobia PR are that dumb? Impressive.

    I’ve read Edge for enough years that to throw that kind of accusation reflects _far_ more badly on the developer than it does on the journalist.

    • Rich says:

      Kind of reminds me of the bad PR just before APB’s release. How did that turn out again?

  9. Red_Avatar says:

    To Arcen: I think your main mistake, was calling Tidalis, Tidalis. It’s a name that says nothing about the game. It’s a name that gets lost among all the others. Minecraft, Machinarium, AI War, etc. all have a name which gives a clue to what is about. Tidalis is one huge question mark. As with many fledgling companies, they often don’t grasp the importance of packaging, names and marketing on the whole but it is THE most important aspect of the entire product because without it, you can only rely on word-to-mouth and you need a good dose of luck and the aid of lots of websites to get there even then.

  10. Scatterbrainpaul says:

    So, what music does jim like?

    I’m a bit concerned he’ll be linking to the eve soundtrack every week

  11. Tei says:

    I trough I am the only one that likes glitchs… like the hability in Elementals to have dragon-humans hybrids, or elementals bug that let you sell your wife, and still having childrens. Also, these physic glitch’s that push a car to the sky with infinite speed in GTA like games. …

  12. brog says:

    re glitches: I’ve been working on some games with graphics inspired either by trying to mimic glitches I’ve seen, or by writing buggy rendering code myself and keeping what accidentally came out.

    link to
    link to
    link to

    • Hal Kilmer says:

      These are great. How do they look in motion? Reminds me of the effects in this video.

    • brog says:

      Thanks! In motion they flash and jitter, partially in sync with the music. I’m trying for a very psychedelic experience.
      (Knot Pharmacard Subcondition-J is related to these, but has a slightly different approach.)

    • HYPERPOWERi says:

      These remind me of Nine Inch Nails album covers circa With Teeth.

      Great job!

    • Muzman says:

      Hey cool. That Presets video uses GoP frame drop effects. Some of that stuff is truly bizarre. No idea how you would control it though (encode the video and then randomly hack it up with a hex editor I suppose. The best ones I’ve seen usually come from incomplete torrents)

  13. Skippy says:

    I suddenly realise that I never understood Phonogram 1 until now. Good show, Ewing. And you too, Gillen.

  14. Ben says:

    What a fantastic and comprehensive review of Tidilas! ;)

  15. Carolina says:

    Please don’t let your last word on The Sunday Papers be “Failed”, Kieron. It tastes like defeat.

  16. Shazbut says:

    Love the glitch piece

  17. Demon Beaver says:

    Thank you Kieron! Good luck!!


  18. Man Raised By Puffins says:

    Unpowered Manned Flight, at last. Win!

    That’s not the special bit, human-powered flight has been done before. It’s the fact that it’s bloody human-powered ornithopter.

    (sorry, couldn’t resist the chance to nit-pick one of Kieron’s articles for the very last time)

    • Matt says:

      Thank you! I recall seeing a documentary on the Gossamer Condor in my childhood but couldn’t for the life of me remember what it was called.

  19. Random says:

    I hope you’ve honed Jim’s musical taste. Every week for the last three months I’ve been more and more surprised about how our musical tastes align: Amanda Palmer, Mark Lanegan, Zoe Keating, etc. You’ve pointed out songs that I should have known about as a diehard fan of those artists. And anything I haven’t already heard of, I greatly enjoy. I hope you’ll pop in every now and then to link to a few new gems.

  20. Alexander Norris says:

    The Robert Yang piece is, uh, really not very good. That’s rather disappointing. :(

    • Robert Yang says:

      If someone else (like, maybe, you?) comes up with a quasi-all-encompassing account of philosophy of game design better than mine, please tell me.

      I’ve never studied philosophy in any serious capacity, but I want the field to exist, so here’s my stab at it. (Google “philosophy of game design” and you’ll find relatively nothing)

      Plus — part 1 is an introduction and setting up terms / approach. Part 2 has more content and makes for a better read, IMO.

    • Lendemain says:

      @Robert Yang

      link to

      This guy who runs this site is a half-mad half-Nietzschean, but some of his articles are pretty good.

      You don’t have to link game design to Platonic or Aristotlean philosophy to write well about it.

    • Lendemain says:

      Having remembered some of icycalm’s more sordid traits, I should qualify my praise for his writing.

      If his writing reveals anything of his character, then he is vainglorious, petty, pedantic, closed-minded, and rude, not to mention homophobic and misogynistic. It may be these are literary conceits designed to shake readers out of their complacency, but it’s impossible to know that without knowing him. Either way, reading him is deeply unpleasant.

      Nevertheless, his dislike of the word “gameplay” (do we use the words “bookread” or “moviewatch”?), his valorization of expertise, and his belief that competition, both between player and player and between player and designer, makes better games, make him worth consideration.

  21. hydr0x says:

    I actually already own a copy of 1001 Video Games. If you want to know anything specific about it, let me know (per email please) :)

  22. TooNu says:

    The last Sunday papers with Kieron. It’s been a staple of my routine and even though Jim will take over it will be some what different (more cyborg stuff I suspect). Thanks for linking interesting stuff I’ve read or glanced over for the last 2-3 years o/

  23. zombiemaster81 says:

    “Unpowered Manned Flight, at last. Win!”

    …hate to break it to ya´ll but…. :

    “Unfortunately DaVinci´s truck was at the shop being repaired that day”

  24. I think this fits the gibberishness says:

    Doesn’t it?

    link to

    Thou shalt not make repetitive generic music.

  25. zombiemaster81 says:

    However of all the I-F songs this is my favourite… its also a bit saucy, without the fear of me getting emailbombed by veggie dyk*snip*myself*

  26. Music Recommendations says:

    I will miss you for your writing, but your weekly music recommendations have introduced me to a vast array of artists, and I would like that to continue… Have you ever considered having a separate blog dedicated just to music? Even if it was just a side project, I know I would read it regularly. It would not be limited to certain genres (as I believe you were selective as to what you put on RPS), and I personally think that having this type of thing would be enjoyable for you and many others.

    Or maybe this already exists and I’m silly.

    • Kieron Gillen says:

      Follow my twitter and I plug music I’m listening to fairly often. I suspect I’ll be doing more music blogging on my actual too.


  27. Matt says:

    Fun facts:

    Hydrophobia was developed by Dark Energy Digital
    Dark Energy Digital is an offshoot of Blade Interactive
    Blade Interactive was founded from the ashes of Mirage Multimedia
    Mirage Multimedia developed…


  28. Bassism says:

    Just wanted to say that I’ve been listening to that Gonzales album just about on repeat.
    And also to link the video of I Am Europe, which acts as a glimpse into the movie for which the album was written:
    link to

    I shall miss your musicy ways KG!

  29. Westheim says:

    Kieron Gillen leaving RPS?

    (falls over)

    I don’t think I will be able to recover from this. Ever.

  30. Node says:

    As a member of the Team Liquid community, I’m really a bit disappointed at how everything went down. The people in the original blog posts were idiots, but I feel that the entire community is being (ironically) condemned by the folks over at Hathor. One of our mods posted and got shut down out of pettiness when he made an effort to resolve the issue. TL is a hugely diverse international community that, as with any community, will pick up a bunch of idiots. I’d rather have a place where the idiots have to be weeded out than have every dissenting viewpoint get deleted and/or ridiculed, as over on Hathor.

    • Ozzie says:

      Right, there are only a bunch of idiots on your forum. Sure, which forum doesn’t have them? It’s something quite special though that mysogonistic bullshit is posted for many pages long and the adminitrators don’t even discourage the behaviour.
      Say what you will, it is hostile to woman, it is not an environment that welcomes them. If you want to remain a boys only club, put a disclaimer up when you register that women or other minorities like gays (which would include me) aren’t welcome.
      But really, who likes it that when you post a question it doesn’t get answered and instead the following discussion only resolves around you, attacks, flames.

      Apparently freedom of speech is such an high ideal that it must be preserved in its most extreme form, even if it disadvantages many people.

      I do get why people dislike people who stand up for their rights, like feminists (in the true sense of the word), gay rights supporters, whatever. They take some of the fun away, you have to act so politically correct when they’re around, you have to be decent, polite. Apparently for many the internet is just a place where anything goes, pure anarchy, where nobody cares for the feelings of others.

      I don’t want to sound wimpy here. I don’t have a problem if people are treated roughly, but then I’d expect this in equal measure for everyone, not just for women or minorities.
      But you understand that it’s a disadvantage if no one accepts you for who you are, instead questions you constantly and doesn’t take you seriously? And just because you chose to out yourself as female on such a forum.

      I guess most men just can’t imagine how a woman feels. okay, I can’t either, but I try at least. :-/

      Really, the internet is stuck in the digital middle ages.

    • Ozzie says:

      I do agree though that her polemic to a reasonable reply doesn’t help Jennifer Kessler, since it makes her just look like a petty minded fanatic and not one that actually wants to help the cause, instead one who just wants to fight the fight, even if she becomes what she criticizes.

    • Ozzie says:

      Thinking more about this, I’m not sure if the points I made really apply in this specific case. Still, I think they’re valid generally.
      I don’t want to register to the Team Liquid forum just to find out if Jennifer Kessler was actually right or not in her report.

  31. Manifesto7 says:


    I am a moderator on And while I agree that the thread is not a shining example of our forum “allowing it to grow to several pages” is a bit misleading. On our forum, a thread can grow by pages per minute. A blog, which is lower on the index, can go unread by our handful of moderators for an hour or more. It isn’t intentional.

    Secondly, we have 100,000+ members. Many are women. We have female members with thousands of posts. We have female staff members. I can go on any site in the world, find one example of poor behaviour, write an article about it, and paint an entire community with the same brush. It doesn’t mean it is right though.

    “If you want to remain a boys only club, put a disclaimer up when you register that women or other minorities like gays (which would include me) aren’t welcome.”

    I don’t see how you jump from “women aren’t welcome” to “all minorities aren’t welcome”.

    As for gay starcraft players, here is a thread from September, 747 posts long, which gives you an idea of how our forum deals with gay players. I’ll let you draw your own conclusions.

    link to

    It feels like you are following the same reasoning this blogger did.

    • Ozzie says:

      Well, I already put my post into perspective, no need for me to do it again. :)
      Like I said, I know nothing about the community, so I just may have fallen for unprofessional reporting.

  32. alantwelve says:


    Why is it that I can read the thread about the gay players, but I have to be registered to read the thread with the misogyny? What’s being hidden..?

    Also, having read the first page of the gay thread, it’s all just a bit weird and bizarrely macho, and has a sexist post on it! Awesome.

    • Ozzie says:

      Oh, so you don’t have to register to be able to read every thread?
      Looks like a cover up to me…

  33. Manifesto7 says:

    Sorry alantwelve, I will tell our gay members on TL to be less macho to fit your image as to what gay people should be. You are also welcome to read more than 4% of the thread to find out what it evolves in to.

    And the other thread has been removed since it was being spammed by people outside our community. The raging masses of the internet have won again. Registered or not, nobody can read it now.

    • Ozzie says:

      Which sucks, since you can’t make an argument for or against it anymore. Hm….
      But the argument against it was already made and prevailed.

    • Noc says:

      I don’t think there was much of an argument “for” it? I don’t think there were really any credible sources arguing in favor of douchebaggery. The issue seems to be whether this sort of behavior is typical of the TL community as a whole. Also a separate issue about whether the Hathor blog’s responses have been reasonable and professional.

      (I think it is significant that these are two different issues, because it seems very natural to use arguments for one as evidence against the other? Like, Team Liquid is generally a welcoming and accepting place THEREFORE the Hathor blog’s complaints are entirely out of line.

      OR, she totally has a valid point in calling attention to blatant sexism in an ostensibly respected community, THEREFORE Team Liquid is a den of immature sexists.)

      . . .

      It actually seems to me that, from what of it I can see, both sides have fairly valid complaints. In the Hathor blog’s favor, it is totally important to call this sort of stuff out when you see it: silence implies consent, after all, and quietly slinking away when this sort of thing happens for fear of “making a fuss” just helps legitimize and perpetuate it.

      The argument for speaking up has already been made fairly eloquently earlier in the thread, so I don’t really have much to add. And it does sound like the Hathor blog’s comments thread were getting spammed with plenty of comments that were rather pointedly not honest attempts at opening a dialog, so I am a bit more sympathetic to her culling the noise and getting false positives among the signal. Also, you don’t end up writing a feminist blog without having the Social Awareness 101 argument enough times to be absolutely sick of it, and cynical about the prospects of engaging in a dialog with folks who haven’t shown themselves to be already receptive to the idea.

      (Notably, RPS also practices fairly active moderation policies against invective and slurs in comments threads. They’re fairly good at slicing out the chaff and leaving honest dissent, too? This Sunday Paper hasn’t been particularly controversial, but some threads have been subject to fairly stringent reaping — and, as a result, the quality of RPS threads tends to be honestly pretty high.)

      . . .

      On the other hand, not being on the TeamLiquid forums, I can’t comment as to their quality, but it is entirely possible that the active core of the forum is significantly better? If you have an open door to the internet, sometimes things roll in, and the more traffic you get the more likely it is that you’ll end up going to get a sammich and come back to find a knee-high mound of shit on your rug.

      This is sort of a hazard of open doors, and without knowing the forums as a whole it’s hard to tell whether this is an isolated incident or simply a continuation of the general tone of the place.

      (“Guys, look, we had a civil discussion about homosexuality!” isn’t a particularly strong mark in favor, either. I know of plenty of people who are capable of discussing sexuality reasonably, but remain baffled about why their casual homophobia “counts.”)

      I also feel as though Manifesto7’s offer for Jennifer Kesler to come and discuss the thing on the TL forum was reasonable, and that accepting it would have been a noble thing? The point of blogging about this shit in the first place is raising awareness, and giving the TL community as a whole the benefit of the doubt and trying to stir up some awareness in their ranks might have done some honest good. I am hesitant to take the afore-linked thread as evidence of the forum’s general quality — but it is fairly good evidence that the forum is capable of handling a discussion about a divisive issue if someone with the patience to sort through a lot of ignorance is willing to step up and do it.

      And a lot of it is ignorance, rather than ill-meaning. I was clueless on a lot of this shit through highschool, until I started hanging out with folks who weren’t other insular white heterosexual suburban highschool guys. Aaaand I had the typical knee-jerk reaction too, when people started calling me on it — but then I actually ended up in contact with the people I was being a jerk to, and wisened up. TeamLiquid really isn’t my kind of place — I’ve been following the SC2 scene for a while, mostly through Day[9]’s cast, and I’ve been about the place enough to know that much, and I doubt it will ever be — but I find it difficult to believe that a rational discussion about something somewhere that hasn’t yet had a rational discussion about it would not be a step in the right direction.

      I can’t quite condemn her for not wanting to take up that task, because OH MAN IS IT A HEADACHE. Especially if you aren’t already a respected member of the community, and if the community seems hostile towards you by default. But I think it would have been a good thing to do.

    • Noc says:

      …also, holy shit am I using a lot of italics tonight. It sounds really silly when I read it back to myself! It is like I am over-acting by stressing the important syllables.


  34. mathew says:

    Not sure if anyone would care, but I did a fair number — double, but not triple digits — of the pieces in 1001 Video Games You Must Play Before You Die.

    Darn that Simon Parkin for stealing my thunder. I was wondering who did the most, I imagine he’s probably front runner.

    • Kieron Gillen says:

      Someone told me Christian Donlan did over 200, though I haven’t seen him to ask.


    • mathew says:

      Christian Donlan? Man! I don’t know that guy.

      I did as many as I could within the time scale, which was tight. I think I was contacted pretty late in the game, to be honest, which was a little disappointing as I could have wrote intelligently on about 500 games given six months rather than… I won’t reveal how little time I had.

  35. kmh says:

    Thanks to some of the posters here for expressing better than I ever could the problems with many (mostly male) gamers viewpoints. I always read the threads here about the problems with prejudice/harassment of women in the gaming community. And every time I am disappointed with the numerous posters even on a great site like this who believe that women, especially the dreaded feminist, blow everything out of proportion. The truth is, privilege exists. It might be getting better, but it exists. The sooner everyone realizes that no one deserves to be treated as an object, lesser or even slightly different because of gender/preference/ethnicity, the better. It might be allowed because of free speech, but that doesn’t make it right, and that does not mean such language like over at TL should not be called out and discussed. Thanks Kieron for always bringing up pieces like this. I just wish more of the community here would see why they are important.
    -An actual female gamer. (please don’t let the flowchart start…)

  36. Muzman says:

    “But making a cause out of it and trying to convince men that “you can’t possibly know how hard is to be a woman, boo hoo” is bullshit”

    Has anyone actually done this or do you just substitute than in the moment you hear a female complain?
    I mean, it’s not like what they’re saying is wrong.

    • Muzman says:

      hey, my first reply fail. I’m gonna try again where it’s meant to go

  37. Diogo Ribeiro says:

    Thank you for the linkage, Kieron and RPS ^___^

    @brog: that is fantastic, I will be linking to that in my next link round-up :D

  38. hydr0x says:

    Well the individual entries all feature a credit so I could check if he’s actually credited for every 5th entry or not. Not going to count them though ^^

  39. Hydraulics says:

    BEMCO Hydraulics, originally an Engineering Craftsman’s shop in the late thirties has risen to be a premier producer of HYDRAULIC PRESS and Portable re-railing equipments. It is located in Belgaum, Karnataka, and a southwestern state in India.for more details visit link to

  40. Cooper says:

    Are you gonna have regular links to excellent pop on your own blog now?

    I’ve picked up a number of albums from the Sunday Papers and will miss those little titbits I don’t find anywhere else…

  41. Generic Individual says:

    Went out and got a copy of ‘1001 Video Games You Must Play Before You Die’ based solely on your link…

    … really not sure about it.

    I like: the fact that the game I make is in there

    don’t like: the inclusion of so many totally average, generic titles. Definitely feels like in order to hit that magic ‘1001’ the book is padded as hell. I mean… ‘FEAR 2’…. ‘Army of Two: The 40th Day’… really?

    I genuinely don’t think videogames are ready for that yet. I’m not sure if there are even 100 genuinely essential videogames in the world, let alone 1001

    It’s a nice, hefty, glossy coffee table reference book though. Worth the money.

    • hydr0x says:

      @Generic Individual

      I agree, there are far too many generic current gen games in the book. If you look at the page count you’ll notice that over half of the pages are dedicated to the 2000s, which can’t be a good thing.

      I disagree about your point of not being 1001 essential games though. While reading the book I could easily think of >100 games <=1998 that should have been in the book. E.g. check how many cpc/c64/speccy games there are, DOS games too. Or check for turn based strategy games, flight simulators, racing games (not even Formula One Grand Prix is in there…). Plenty of ground not covered well enough. I'd still recommend the book to anyone but there's a lot of room for improvement in future editions.