The Duke Nukem/Borderlands Cruelty Zoo

Noooo, etc

Or Loving, Gift-Laden Zoo, depending on whether or not you’ve already bought Gearbox’s pretty good RPG-shooter Borderlands yet. If you haven’t, you might be planning on buying its upcoming Game Of The Year edition. (I chortle whenever a re-release of a game call itself that. By whose authority, exactly? I might buy a new hat and start referring to myself as Gaming Blogger Of The Year). If you do, you will have the earliest possible access to the demo of Dukey-Nuke Nukem Not-Never-After-All, once it lands next year.

If you already own Borderlands and all its DLC… well, back of the queue, buddy.

I suspect we’re going to see some budging on this one, as it’s ludicrously mean to people who’ve already laid out a ton of cash on Borderlands. Trouble being they’re not currently ripe to increase Borderlands’ profits. But they will complain, and they will be right to. I won’t be at all surprised if the newly-announced ‘Duke Nukem First Access Club’ sees its membership remit expanded to try and fend off bad will. But we’ll see.

Demos have become curious beasts, which is why 2K are doing it. They’re no longer promotion for a game, but highly desirable event-gamettes in their own right. There’s a lot of industry talk, too, that too many gamers are thriving on demos alone, that they’re being given too much for free and thus not bothering to buy full games. . I don’t, from the position of armchair pseudo-analyst, agree with that – it’s a little too similar to the ‘every pirated copy is a lost sale’ line of thought. Yeah, some sales may be lost by people either satisfied or turned off the demo, but it’s also encouraging a whole ton of people to go spend money. Just because it doesn’t translate to 100% sales doesn’t mean the model is flawed.

At any rate, we’re seeing a lot of experimentation as to how to – ugh, I’m so sorry about the word I’m about to use – monetise demos. Capcom have done bloody well with Dead Rising 2: Case Zero on console, and the intention here is clearly to flog a load of copies of a budget/re-release version of an old game. There’s no way BOrderlands GOTY would be getting all the headlines and, presumably, pre-orders it’s getting today (in which I become complicit even whilst writing a cyncial post) if it wasn’t the price of first playable access to one of history’s most-anticipated games.

Of course, we’ll all get access to the demo eventually, and probably sooner rather than later. Patience is a virtue, and in our noble PC gaming case we’ll be swamped with bold’n’weird indie titles to fill (and spill over) any such gap. Best not to get too bothered about a bit of wait to shoot some pig-dudes, but I do miss the days when demos were demos and everyone could get excited on an equal basis.

Here’s the official release about the Duke Nukem Gotta Have It Now Whatever Club:

2K Games and Gearbox Software are challenging gamers to the ultimate video game gun-fest with the Borderlands™ Game of the Year edition. Available beginning October 12 for the Xbox 360® video game and entertainment system from Microsoft and PlayStation® 3 computer entertainment system for $59.99, and for PC for $49.99, this package will come complete with the entire extravasplosive Borderlands catalog and a free membership certificate for the Duke Nukem Forever® First Access Club. This certificate entitles owners who register their unique key to a wealth of goodies, including early access to a sneak peek of the legendary, long-awaited video game – Duke Nukem Forever.

Entry into this exclusive club will provide fans with the earliest possible admittance to the Duke Nukem Forever playable demo and more. When the demo releases prior to the retail launch of the game, this select group of First Access Club members will be the first to play it and experience the life of the King of All Shooters. Hail to the King, baby!

Membership for the Duke Nukem Forever® First Access Club is included with Borderlands Game of the Year edition, where customers will be able to experience the definitive, value-packed collection of the critically acclaimed and best-selling Role-Playing-Shooter that has captured the imagination and attention of single-player and cooperative gamers around the world. Borderlands Game of the Year edition customers will also receive access to all four explosive downloadable adventures including The Zombie Island or Dr. Ned*, Mad Moxxi’s Underdome Riot*, The Secret Armory of General Knoxx*, and the latest wild adventure – Claptrap’s New Robot Revolution* – where players will join forces in an attempt to suppress the infamous Interplanetary Ninja Assassin Claptrap.

Borderlands, rated M for Mature by the ESRB, is currently available for the Xbox 360, PlayStation 3 system and PC. The Zombie Island of Dr. Ned**, Mad Moxxi’s Underdome Riot**, The Secret Armory of General Knoxx** and Claptrap’s New Robot Revolution** add-on packs are all available separately on the Xbox LIVE Marketplace for Xbox 360 for 800 Microsoft Points and on the PlayStation Network and PC for $9.99.

Duke Nukem Forever will officially make its eagerly anticipated debut for the Xbox 360, PlayStation 3 system and Windows PC in calendar 2011.



  1. Freud says:

    Seems quite overpriced, considering the game has been on sale for ages and the DLCs have been discounted on Steam several times.

    Good game though and the General Knoxx DLC is fantastic.

  2. terry says:

    Pants. Down with this sort of thing!

    • Fumarole says:

      That is a very important period.

    • battles_atlas says:

      Grammar-Based Quip of the Week Edition to you Sir.

    • apricotsoup says:

      Careful now.

    • mbp says:

      Please keep your trousers on. There are children watching.

    • BAReFOOt says:

      @mbp: Every single one of them already has seen a pussy. From the inside. So what’s your point? …apart from delusions of religious schizophrenia.
      Also, they have already pulled down their pants and think it’s funny. Because they are not infected (yet). :)

    • The Colonel says:

      delusions of religious schizophrenia? Really?

    • Alexander Norris says:

      Barefoot appears to be your typical twelve-year-old Internet tough guy who thinks he’s smart and doesn’t afraid of nothing.

  3. Londonistan says:

    “critically acclaimed and best-selling Role-Playing-Shooter that has captured the imagination and attention of single-player and cooperative gamers around the world”


  4. Rick says:

    I picked up Borderlands in the last Steam sale for something stupidly cheap, but I just can’t get into it.

    • battles_atlas says:

      I found it fun for about 12 hours, mainly because I found the visuals to be lovely. At some point though it becomes blatantly clear that there is absolutely fuck all to the game . Its just a sexy grindfest.

    • DrGonzo says:

      Get three friends to play with or don’t even bother playing it.

    • ezekiel2517 says:

      I am in the same situation. Got it off steam on the cheap but no one I know plays it, so I find it boring. If you want to give it a go my steam link is (link to I don’t have it installed, though.

      …for some reason giving out my steam ID like this makes me feel like a cheap whore.

  5. Heliocentric says:

    Don’t care about borderlands, don’t care about duke forever, why am I posting? I care about gearbox, first 2 brothers in arms games were exceptional, why can’t they go back to that, they can even do the modern warfare reboot thing, i just want to send men to run across a field so the enemy will start firing at them, so i can then ventilate the enemy.

    • Nick says:

      They went back to it and we got Hell’s Highway. The only game I have ever played that repeatedly made me say aloud ‘what the fuck were they thinking?’.

    • Chris Evans says:

      Gearbox also did Half-Life Opposing Force, that is the kinda thing I want to see more from them.

  6. Dominic White says:

    The key problem with Borderlands is that of all the RPG elements they shoehorned into the FPS framework, the dumbest of them all was level.

    Character level affects WAY too much. An enemy three levels below you can do fuck-all to your shields, and dies in one hit. An enemy three levels above you is a nigh-invincible bulletproof titan, capable of absorbing 50 high-caliber headshots without so much as shrugging.

    Problem here is that by doing any sidequests at all, you outlevel all the enemies in your current zone, rendering 90% of sidequests completely pointless, as they’ll now give useless, underlevelled gear and cash rewards. But you can’t skip ahead without doing some of them, because the next zone is several levels above you.

    So, the solution? Simple – level scaling. It really wouldn’t do anything to hurt the game. have minions be one level below you, grunts on the same level, heavies one level above, and bosses two levels up. Well, apparently that’s what they’re doing in the latest patch. Great, huh?

    Well, get this – to unlock the level-scaling which fixes the core, massive issue with the game, you need to not only be level 48+, but you also need to beat the entire story TWICE. The game fixes itself only after you’ve thrashed every last bit of enjoyment out of it already. Great. Oh, and that level-scaling only applies to that character. Want to try one of the other classes? Well, you’ve got two games worth of over/underlevelled content to wade through!

    Gearbox desperately need to hire a Common Sense Guy, who can look over key design decisions like this and say ‘Nope, that’s godamn retarded, change it’. Really, the simple, painfully obvious solution here is to just offer a menu toggle that turns on/off level scaling. If you hate it, you can turn it off. If you want it (like most people who have played Borderlands), you can turn it on. Simple! They’ve already got the scaling code worked out, so it’s just a matter of adding it to a menu, right?

    Oh, Gearbox. Why must you be so dumb? I repeat that Borderlands is 90% FPS, 10% RPG. And that 10% RPG desperately needs to be pruned back to half that, as it’s really damaging the rest.

    • Arathain says:

      In a game where your character progresses by acquiring skills and progressively better guns, why even bother with levels at all? I guess it’s so the player can be drip fed content, and so that they don’t inadvertently get in over their heads.

      In a game with such a wild setting, though, it’s good to have ways to get in over your head. Look at Morrowind, Baldur’s Gate, Fallout and (because I’m playing it now) Monster Hunter Tri. One of the joys is seeing if you can survive encounters you get the feeling you’re not supposed to be able to do quite yet.

    • Jimbo says:

      The continued commercial success of this franchise suggests that you are somewhat overstating how ‘massive’ this problem is and how ‘desperately’ it needs solving. They seem to be managing just fine without ‘Common Sense Guy’.

      I played through Borderlands and never felt like I was ‘wading through’ over/underleveled content.

    • Archonsod says:

      Yup, levelling feels bang on for me.

    • bleeters says:

      I routinely had a half dozen or so pointlessly obsolete quests left over per zone, myself. Quests that I was apparently incapable of abandoning, or avoiding picking up in the first place without constant reminders. And heaven forbid I attempt to co-op with another player more than two levels either side of my own. Given that your overall progress is fairly controlled anyway due to locked gates leading to new zones, I don’t really see the benefit.

    • Flappybat says:

      We had a lot of problems playing it co-op. The game was ultra fussy about storyline progression which was just stupid, the level differences were vast enough being 3~ levels away from another player was a massive problem and the classes had very boring synergy mostly consisting of invisible passive bonuses.

      The game appeared fine on the surface but after a couple of hours you were tired of the bland quests, heavy enemy reuse, lack of depth to combat and ultimately underwhelming random weapons which dropped a lot of crap and not much of value.

    • DrGonzo says:

      Played it co op and loved the powers. Using your powers and leveliing them up with you team so they worked the best was very good fun. I think the woman was the most fun, providing buffs for the team. The Heavy was who I played most the time, though really to just annoy everyone by stealing all the kills and punching people in the face.

  7. Delusibeta says:

    For folks who haven’t bought Borderlands (or people willing to pay £14.99 and not one penny more for early access to the Duke demo), may I point them in this direction: link to

  8. Dominic White says:

    Oh yeah, and as for DR2: Case Zero, it’s a bloody good idea. It’s not so much a ‘demo’ as it is a prologue episode. Completely seperate from the full game, it’s about two hours of story leading up to Chuck arriving in Fortune City, with new people to rescue, a new boss and a bunch of unlockables and secrets of its own.

    And it’s $5, which is dirt cheap.

    • Auspex says:

      I’d agree with this especially as the demo (or trial) of Case Zero is longer and better than most official demos.

    • malkav11 says:

      Exactly. It shows off what the retail game is going to be like, but it is a complete game unto itself, sidestepping issues that plague most demos like showing off too much of the game content, showing off too little of the game content, spoiling the story, and requiring a near complete installation of the game just for a trivial amount of playtime.

      Plus they can reasonably charge for it, which is -certainly- not true for something that is in fact just a demo.

    • DrGonzo says:

      It’s a terrible, awful cash in. Rejected props and levels jammed in together and then they charge you. Plenty of old games had new or unused content in the demo. They didn’t charge you for it. IMO it’s a bloody disgrace and really put me off DR2.

  9. Bassism says:

    I can’t help but feel like this is simply going to lead to a mass of people pirating the demo. Which is an absurd concept in itself.

    But then everybody will point at this and say “Look! Evil Pirates! Demos are dumb! Losing money!” and everything will be ruined.

    • Shakermaker says:

      The DNF demo will be the first demo with DRM. I called it, quote me on it later in the year.

    • DdCno1 says:

      I think the first demo using DRM was the one belonging to Half Life 2 back in 2004. No Steam – no demo. Additionally, the demo was only available for a short period ot time.

    • Delusibeta says:

      There’s definitely still a Half Life 2 demo up.

    • DrazharLn says:

      It needs a steam account to install, but a half life 2 demo is available here. Oh, and here on the Half Life 2 steam page.

      Fact check and reference, people.

    • Kryopsis says:

      There are plenty of demos with SecuROM or TAGES. Even if the Duke Nukem Forever demo contains DRM, it won’t be the first.

    • malkav11 says:

      Demos have come with DRM (and gamers have bitched about it) for ages. The idea is that if the demo doesn’t have DRM, it’s an easy way in for the crackers.

  10. Pattom says:

    I’m a little surprised you didn’t bring up either Left 4 Dead. Wasn’t there a good amount of grumbling at each one when it turned out people who pre-ordered the game would get access to the demo a week before anyone else?

    • Xocrates says:

      @Pattom: The difference is the same as between early-adopters and late adopters.

      As much as people may bitch about pre-orders bonus, at least those make some sense as people are taking a risk and as such you’re pretty much just rewarding them for being good customers.

      In this case you have people who will not only pay less for coming late to the party, they actually get rewarded by doing so, while all the faithful customers get a whole bucket of nothing.

    • Kryopsis says:

      “In this case you have people who will not only pay less for coming late to the party, they actually get rewarded by doing so, while all the faithful customers get a whole bucket of nothing.”

      So how is that different from Left4Dead, then? Once Valve gets around porting the rest of the L4D1 campaigns into L4D2, people who bought the first game for $50 get what exactly?

    • spod says:


      “people who bought the first game for $50 get what exactly?”

      They\we got l4d1 which, in my opinion, is vastly superior to 2.

    • DrGonzo says:

      The demo was released early to people who bought L4D2, but it was buggy and needed patches. You weren’t so much getting it early, as getting to test it before release. Plus the demo was absolutely gash, really had me worried about the game but it was a cut down lame version of the level in the end.

      Also, L4D1 had the same deal as 2 as far as I remember, we got access to the demo a week early. People who pre-ordered the Orange Box got access to TF2 early aswell.

  11. Mad Doc MacRae says:

    I will pick up Borderlands GOTY when it’s cheap. Better than getting it and all the DLC separately.

    By the time I get it I suspect Duke Nukem Whatever will be out already. Fine by me.

  12. Nick says:

    Ain’t that a kick in the head..

  13. Archonsod says:

    “I suspect we’re going to see some budging on this one, as it’s ludicrously mean to people who’ve already laid out a ton of cash on Borderlands.”

    Not really. My interest in DNF waned circa 1998. Can’t say I’d bother with the demo even if they gave me access, particularly not if it’s just going to be a straight forward linear FPS.

  14. Unaco says:

    The Shareware/Demo of Duke Nukem 3-D I probably played more of than I did the full game… and I did play through the full game, eventually, when I borrowed the discs from a friend. But the demo was awesome… I still remember all of that first level.

  15. Lambchops says:

    That was a wonderful post from the Game Blogger of the Year in the natty new hat.

    Yours sincerely

    (Hatless) RPS Commenter of the Year

  16. Demon Beaver says:

    I can see DNF being the first game in the world that will ever have its demo pirated… or is there precedent?

  17. Jimbo says:

    I’m not convinced the Case Zero / “Pre-LC” approach will prove to be as successful as they think it is / will be.

    The perfect game demo is the one that leaves you with gaming blue balls. If they make the demo / Pre-LC generous enough to justify charging, then they also run the risk of satisfying the gamer, which is the last thing you want to do with something which still primarily exists to drive sales of the full game. It’s the same reason pro-camwhores won’t show the ‘good’ stuff until you hand over the cash.

    Case Zero sold extremely well – ballpark seems to be 400k downloads – but at $5 that’s still only $2 million (less with Microsoft’s cut), which equates to Capcom’s cut of only about 60k copies retail copies of Dead Rising 2 by my reckoning.

    Now, if Case Zero actually increases sales of DR2 then it’s a moot point, but I think it could just as easily go the other way. The fact that it’s apparently high quality and very generous with content may even make that more likely to happen. If it goes so far the other way as to lose them ~60k+ DR2 sales (which we’ll never know) then Case Zero will have been a mistake for them.

    I’m not saying I’ll definitely be right here, just that there is an element of risk involved with promotional content like this, even if it does sell well itself. Conventional wisdom says good demo = high sales, but my hunch says they are underestimating just how big a part the careful build up of hype and curiosity plays in driving game sales, and I think they are underestimating the ‘release valve’ effect that content like Case Zero stands to have. It may simply be too good for their own good.

  18. Isometric says:

    My thoughts exactly, Heliocentric.

  19. CommanderZx2 says:

    Hmm, let’s see pay a bunch of money just to play a demo or wait a few hours until the demo appears on bit torrent. I think I’ll wait for the demo to be shared online for free.

    • DrazharLn says:

      Your piracy, ofc, is totally justified.

      That was sarcasm.

      Just because you want something and someone else wants you to pay a price you feel is unfair does not give you some magic right to pirate it.

      I don’t walk into House of Fraser and see a fancy new coat, balk at the £100+ price tag and then justify my sibsequent shoplifting by claiming that the price they’re charging is too high.

      And as I’m running down the street, pursued by security guards I don’t kid myself that what I have done is in any way moral.

      What you are doing is theft, pure and simple, and there is no justification for it. If you feel that the demo is overpriced then don’t bloody buy it!

    • Kryopsis says:

      Are you seriously comparing the act of downloading a demo to stealing an expensive coat or was that sarcasm as well?

    • Auspex says:


      What /you/ are doing is failing to understand what theft is.

    • DrazharLn says:

      The price may be different, but if you take for free what the creator intends to charge you for then that is theft. How could it not be?

      The developers will have spent money making that demo and they apparently want some fiscal compensation for it (though obviously not the whole price of development), as a consumer you have every right to decide that you don’t want to buy it. You don’t have the right to just ignore their demand for cash and take it for free.

      Seeing as they’re charging for the demo, you should think of it just as another game or bit of software. Piracy is not OK, and righteous piracy is just stupid.

    • Auspex says:

      Copyright infringement is /not/ and never can be theft.

      Theft requires the intention to permanently deprive somebody of possession or use of personal property. Torrenting a game leads to no such dispossession therefore it is not theft.

      You are perfectly entitled to regard copyright infringement as just as deplorable as theft but whereas theft is almost universally regarded as “a bad thing” there are many people that believe that the way copyright law operates in most of the world is, at the very least, unreasonable.

      Copyright infringement is, of course, illegal but it is not always sensible to confuse what is legal with what is moral.

    • DrazharLn says:

      Does the fact that software may be copied easily really mean you can’t steal it?

      I agree that copyright law is not perfect, but I don’t see why software should be treated differently to other products. The creator of that software has the right to restrict access to it if they wish and I feel that that right should be respected.

      By pirating software you may not be depriving anyone of their own copy of the software but you are taking someone else’s work and using it without permission and preventing them from controlling access to (and profitting from, if they wanted to restrict access based on payment) their creation.

      Considering software only as a service might be a better model, in which case software piracy is somewhat analoguous to fraudulently gaining the benefit of some service that the provider would rather you pay for.

      In both cases the service provider is wronged.

      So maybe my use of the word theft was wrong in the legal definition or w/e you’re using, but the rightuous pirates really piss me off and I felt such language was appropriate.

    • CyberBrent says:

      You wouldn’t be stealing the coat, you would be stealing an incomplete, unfinished version of the coat.

    • Auspex says:


      Yes, the fact you are copying software (or music or films or whatever) means it is not stealing. It might seem like a minor distinction to some but I believe it’s an enormous one. Most legal systems require harm to have been caused or some form of loss before an individual can be sued – this does not occur with copyright infringement and is one of the reasons we have such Draconian IP laws.
      (incidentally it’s not just the legal definition but the dictionary one: link to

      Obviously the obstinate self-righteous pirate is annoying but so too is the idea that copyright infringement is always indefensible. If I owned Borderlands and all the DLC I’d have no qualms at all about torrenting the DNF demo, to be honest even if I didn’t I wouldn’t have a problem.

    • Auspex says:

      But if I’m /really/ honest I don’t care either way and I’ve only been writing all this shite because I’ve got a coursework due in 9 hours and I’m doing everything I can think of to delay finishing it.

      I don’t even like Duke Nukem!

    • PleasingFungus says:

      Since no one else has posted it yet: link to

      (There are valid arguments against piracy, and I, myself, have never downloaded a game I hadn’t legally paid for… but comparing theft of a game to theft of a physical argument is a dead end, and one I’ve seen visited far too often.)

    • Auspex says:

      That’s what I was saying!

      I’m going to have you arrested for “theft of a physical argument” PleasingFungus!

    • JuJuCam says:

      This is actually an interesting debate, featuring angles that I think are rarely mentioned in debates regarding piracy. Yes, I agree that pirates who swan around wearing their ill-gotten gains on their sleeves with some sense of entitlement are absolutely foolish. But I also agree with the concept that copying is by definition multiplying the distribution and getting more eyes on the product, and is therefore not necessarily unhealthy for the industry.

      This is why free weekends are so successful, on Steam or otherwise. Steam even goes the extra inch of putting the game on your game list so it seems like you suddenly already own a new game.

      Now, speaking as an artist (theatre), if someone films a performance of mine and releases it to youtube, that’s free distribution that doesn’t hurt my profits necessarily. It’s an imperfect analogy, though! Youtube can’t possibly recreate the atmosphere of the theatre, but even if it could, I’d probably be more flattered than anything. Although in my case I don’t practice my art for profit.

      However, if someone managed to bottle my performance and sell it on the street, offering the exact experience that I provide, or more likely if they took a script I wrote and produced it and made a profit without my knowledge, I would be furious. Especially if they did it while my show was still on, and undercut my prices so that I noticeably lost sales.

      But video game / movie / music pirates (particularly torrenters) generally do not profit, except in whatever enjoyment they take from the experience. I guess the sticking point is that for many publishers or producers, the “hours of entertainment” which are being consumed have a dollar value that hasn’t come back to them. That’s where the big moral question mark floats overhead.

      In any case, in the specific circumstances of the DNF delayed-release demo, this debate is largely irrelevant. It’s a demo, which is a product sample that is offered for free anyway. All that’s being stolen is early access. And the terms for early access are vaguely ludicrous. It’s like sneaking into a cinema to watch a trailer and leaving before the feature. Let me bold that for the TL;DR crowd. Pirating the Duke Nukem Forever demo before general release is like sneaking into a cinema to watch a trailer and leaving before the feature.

    • DrGonzo says:

      It would be like copy and pasting someone’s coat and then taking the coat.

    • nil says:

      I’d rather take the pasted copy, to be honest; it doesn’t have the weird bondage gear the original does, or the cellphone that keeps calling the manufacturer at the weirdest hours…

    • The Colonel says:

      But presumably that’s what you’d have to do if you wanted to see the trailer but it was available anywhere except before a film you didn’t care about at the cinema. I’m pretty sure I remember hearing many stories about people going to see a film purely for the trailer before it. The imaginary new Star Wars films are one example I am 100% certain of.

      Luckily, I can step out of this debate since reports are suggesting that the game is pretty shit anyway. BAM

    • The Colonel says:

      But presumably that’s what you’d have to do if you wanted to see the trailer but it wasn’t available anywhere except before a film you didn’t care about at the cinema. I’m pretty sure I remember hearing many stories about people going to see a film purely for the trailer before it. The imaginary new Star Wars films are one example I am 100% certain of.

      Luckily, I can step out of this debate since reports are suggesting that the game is pretty shit anyway. BAM

    • DMJ says:

      So, what if you had to kill a manatee to save two manatees?
      Before you answer, what if the manatee you have to kill is pregnant?

  20. Catbasketry says:

    2K can officially go fuck themselves. They release Bioshock 2 as a broken craphole, go months without a PC patch to fix issues known on day 1, now they want to gift a demo of something people are begging to see just to prove it isn’t a yeti, only to people who buy another copy of a game?

    Fuck you, 2K, fuck you right in the fuck.

    • Delusibeta says:


      Where did Bioshock 2 come from?

      (Also, blame Microsoft for crappy GfWL slowing down patches, etc.)

    • Catbasketry says:

      2K published Borderlands, is publishing DNF, and published BS2. And their support of BS2 has been whatever’s below “unforgivably horrid”.

      And GfWL hasn’t been the issue with the patches, 2K Marin’s failure to code the fixes is.

    • Delusibeta says:

      Still. I fail to see how one developer’s (according to you, I wouldn’t know since I haven’t got the game) lack in patching skill has to do with another developer’s inclusion of early access to a demo in a re-release of their game. It’s a bit like saying “Alpha Protocol hasn’t been patched yet, ergo Football Manager 2011 will be crap” rather than “why do I need to buy Football Manager 2011 when I already have the 2010 edition?”

      On another note, it seems that it must be Games of the Year release time again. Dragon Age and Empire/Napoleon: Total War (yes, both of them in one box) is also rounding up their expansion packs and DLCs and selling it all on a disc for about £20.

    • Frankie The Patrician[PF] says:

      It does make sense…it’s like Mak’s Everyday Shooter…he’s promised a patch for the steam version YEARS ago and still hasn’t delivered…He even said it’s because of his another project! Tell you what, we ain’t buyin’ his next project, we had it with ES.

    • Corrupt_Tiki says:

      I’m Sorry Catbasketry, but yes, GFWL does slow down the patching process to an almost unbearable level, as GFWL charges companies to release patches, thanks to their incredibly broken system.
      I read it somewhere and can’t be bothered dredging up a link, but it is true.

  21. Bascule42 says:

    I don’t really give a crap about DNF…we’ll see it when we see it as far as I’m concerned. But, I’ve always been planning on getting Broderlands GOTY. Never got a round to getitng it when it came out. With the 4 DLC..should be a good deal.

    And for any UKers who are getting it…it’s on Zavvi for pre-order at £15.95.


  22. Spliter says:

    The pay per demo thing is interesting but it’s not feasible on it’s own.
    I think a new Demo agenda should be invested in:
    -A Free demo, similar to any other game demo, shows a small part of the game from any part (can show the first few levels, the middle, or the end) with NO DLC!!!!
    -A paid demo (5$) showing a lot more of the game (one sixth to one quarter of the game from the start of the game) and if you buy the full game within three weeks you’ll have it 5$ cheaper (this, combined with any other sale/discount it might have at the time of purchase)

    Don’t you see? It’s perfect!
    People wanting free demo will get it for free, people wanting a lot more to help them decide they can buy the paid demo for more content/gameplay!
    Everybody wins!
    Of course no one important is going to read this post and no one will tell any publisher to try this out and we’ll have publishers forcing the “every demo is paid or accessible only through something else” agenda

    BTW If any of you see this happening IT WAS MY IDEA FIRST! (unless someone said it before)

    • Devenger says:

      As mentioned somewhat south of your comment, Spore essentially did this with its Creature Creator. It’s not revolutionary, and it’s not a flawless idea (making the game available cheaper if you have the paid-demo has its challenges), but yes, it may be worth another look by developers and publishers.

  23. Matt says:

    Shouldn’t it be called the “Game of Last Year” edition?

  24. dave says:

    I am officially person of the year as decided by my peers. Unfortunately my peers are a bunch of broken down drunken Eve vets who would rather drive a Luchs than involve themselves in internet spaceships. In their defence im not exactly mr Eve at the mo’ either. More importantly none of them have actually voted me as person of the year. Darn you real life, darn you to heck.

    What were we talking about again?

  25. po says:

    DLC. What a joke. Think of all the content that would be available for the game if players had been given mod tools instead.

  26. wazups2x says:

    Has it been said if Duke Nukem Forever will have dedicated servers or not? It wouldn’t make any sense if a legendary classic PC game didn’t have dedicated servers.

    I sure hope Gearbox doesn’t screw this up and make it a terrible console port. After waiting 13 years for an amazing PC game, that would be messed up

  27. Daniel says:

    Was it just me or did this post’s title make anyone else think of the “zoo” level in Duke 3D?

    • Matt says:

      There was a zoo level in Duke3D? I just played the entire game through about a month ago, and I don’t recall one.

  28. Daniel says:

    @Matt If I remember correctly it was some sort of demo/bonus level. There was an armory with every weapon and then rooms with every monster in the game.

  29. bjohndick says:

    I refuse to buy a full game JUST for a demo,
    even if it is Duke Nukem Forever.
    Nothing against Borderlands, it’s a great game.
    But I have no intention of picking this up.

    I will probably either “pirate” this demo, or just wait for it to be freely available to everyone.
    This depends largely on the timeframe – if it’s only a week or two, I could wait.
    However if they don’t announce when it will publicly available, or it’s more than a month, I can’t guarantee I could wait – knowing there is a playable Duke Nukem Forever demo just a torrent away.

  30. Hulk Handsome says:

    This is hardly the first time this has happened… Square did it back in the 32-bit day, such as including a demo of Final Fantasy 7 with Brave Fencer Mushi or whatever, which drove a lot of the sales.

    • Matt says:

      That was annoying. That huge case didn’t fit in my CD rack.

      …I still played every single demo on the disc though.

  31. ShawnClapper says:

    Remember the $10 Spore Creature Creator demo thing? I hate to say it, but I was one who bought into that.

    • poop says:

      i didnt really mind about that demo because it saved me the $50 i would have spent on the full version of that turd

    • Heliocentric says:

      People forget that $10 demo had a free version with less content, still totally adequate to assess that part of the game.

  32. Dhatz says:

    I don’t get why is he complaining about demos, if there wasn’t demo for blade kitten, I wouldn’t know it’s already available. These days you don’t see games this positive(those that don’t look as freeware/indie) every season.

  33. Choca says:

    Played Duke Nukem Forever yesterday and… it’s meh.

  34. KauhuK says:

    I had the original game back when it came. I got rid of it because I had too many other games to play. When I saw that they put the DNF demo access to the GOTY version of Borderlands I thought it would be nice to try the game with all dlc. (And get access to the dnf demo and find out if its worth my time)

    I have bought games from before cos they have free delivery to Finland. So I looked up for Borderlands Goty and they had it for meager 20 euros. So I ordered it and with that price its almost a robbery. (almost)

  35. The Colonel says:

    PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE would someone buy Borderlands off my so I can get that £20 back and not have that POS in my steam list anymore!

  36. poop says:

    why yes I would like to buy a terrible game that is still $80 on steam to play the demo of the most underwhelming game of all time gearbox here is my asshole please put your dicks in it

  37. Archaic says:

    You’re a genius. I’ve had similar issues with Borderlands since release… scaling would make the game so much more enjoyable.

  38. bonjovi says:

    LOL’ed at ‘scrap demos cause we’re loosing sales’ idea.

    If someone just plays demos and never buys a full version it must be because:
    a) he cannot afford it.
    b) he didn’t like the game enough to crave for full version
    c) he didn’t like the game

    in all of these cases you would not make a sale anyway, so nothing is lost.

  39. Andrew says:

    I have been waiting for the Borderlands GOTY for months now, but to my disappointment I discovered none of the DLC will actually be in the GOTY box. You have to download them separately. For me this means I won’t buy the GOTY after all. I would have liked to buy a nice box with all the Borderland content like patches and DLC on 2 or 3 DVD discs.

    • oO says:


      If this isn’t like Fallout 3 with 2 Discs of an all-in install, wtf is the POINT?????????????

  40. Urael says:

    “There’s a lot of industry talk, too, that too many gamers are thriving on demos alone, that they’re being given too much for free and thus not bothering to buy full games”

    Can we please find the hellish demon spawning these wrong-headed weenie gobbling, urine drinking ass-hats and kill it before someone accidentally pays attention to the obscene shit streaming from their mouths? These are the people that would charge us rent on the atoms we’re currently using in our bodies if they thought they could enforce it. I’m sick and tired of everything good about gaming being taken away because some corporate suit wants a new fucking Ferrari.

    The ONLY reasons demos are a dying art is that the people who release shoddy crap masquerading as ‘games’ object to giving people’s wallets an early warning system. This ‘giving away free bits of the game’ nonsense completely ignores the power of that free slice to convert people to a full purchase, as they have done for me on repeated occasions throughout my gaming history.

  41. BadPeople says:

    Yea, like the demo won’t be leaked and torrented into the tens of thousands within 24 hours of being available to anyone with an internet connection.

    People who succumb to this blackmail only for the DNF part…*insert whatever insult at their weakness here*.