Bethesda Says Skyrim Engine “All New”

There was some debate over what engine the new Elder Scrolls game would be using, and all signs seemed to point to GameBryo. However, writing on Twitter earlier today, Bethesda Softworks community manager Nick Breckon said: “We can now confirm that the TES V: Skyrim engine is all-new. And it looks fantastic.” I asked him what “new” means in this case, and whether it was simply a new version of the Gamebryo engine that powered Oblivion and the recent Fallout games. He responded: “It’s a new graphics/gameplay engine built internally. We’ll have more details down the road.”



  1. Rob says:

    YES! The best bit of news about Skyrim i could have heard. Excitement levels critical!!

  2. Coins says:

    If it turns out to be a proper RPG, I couldn’t give a rat’s arse what kind of engine they’ll be using.

    • Mithent says:

      I’m glad they’re using a different engine, because Gamebryo kept crashing on me. But, yes, this: would be nice to see a reversal of the general trend of simplifying RPG mechanics.

    • BobDicks says:

      Every TES game has been a horrible example of the First Person Single Character RPG sub-genre and would have benefited greatly from the original vision of Arena.: An action game centered around gladiatorial combat.

    • Fionny says:

      Um If Elder Scroll 4 is anything to go by it will be a proper RPG

      @BobDicks, couldnt disagree with you more Oblivion and Fallout 3 / New Vegas were fine example of that all RPG’s should aspire to imo.

    • BobDicks says:


      Not according to the nerds who will coming out of woodwork because you like Oblivion and Fallout 3.

    • Nick says:

      If terrible writing and a broken leveling system (amongst other things) are what all RPGs should aspire to, then yes Oblivion certainly is a fine example. Still a fun game mind you, but hardly a shining light of aspirational quality.

    • anduin1 says:

      Im so glad that Im investing in a new PC in the next few weeks cause it seems like all these new games are coming out with new engines that my current PC will struggle with. Oblivion kicked my old PCs butt in the past that when I finally upgraded, it was like night and day. I mean that doesn’t change the fact that they dumbed down Oblivion on an epic scale so that it could cater to console owners, or that the main story was mediocre at best. Going from Morrowind to Oblivion was a big disappointment in some gamers eyes so I’m a little reticent to embrace Skyrim wholeheartedly.

    • Fionny says:


      Each to their own I guess… im a nerd and think they are the best RPG’s out there atm, what games would you say are better? Mass Effect too linear to be a proper RPG etc…

    • gerafin says:

      I’m not sure if this is just because of my nostalgia goggles, but I really wish that some of these AAA titles would go back to encouraging me to spend hours picking over stats, party composition, weapons, etc. Everything feels so streamlined nowadays – like the developers have decided that the time spent leveling up should be reduced as much as possible so that the player can get back to “the game.” That’s all well and good, but for some of my favorite games, the mechanics WERE part of “the game,” just as much as combat, exploration, etc. I’m not saying that all RPG’s should go back to that formula, because I definitely enjoy blasting through them like they’re an FPS now and again, but I really wish developers hadn’t so universally abandoned the art of statistics-wrangling.

    • BobDicks says:

      Nostalgia is one hell of a drug.

    • drewski says:

      @ gerafin – unfortunately “nostalgia” goggles can’t compete with “I’m going to make a small boatload of money” contact lenses.

      Elder Scrolls (or nuFallout) games wouldn’t have sold eleventy billion copies if you had to get buried in attributes every time you leveled up. Like it or not, the resurgence of the RPG is largely due to streamlining.

      No doubt there are titles out there which will fulfill your innermost desires for pages and pages of numbers and parties the size of a large family, but you’re not going to get that from a mainstream series like TES (or nuFallout).

    • Nerd Rage says:

      The only thing that gets dumbed down in every new version is the character creation/progression. The world, story, questing, so on are generally improving. For the most part.

    • sassy says:

      What resurgence of RPG’s are you on about? They are more dead then ever, we are lucky to get three big ones a year.

    • malkav11 says:

      And the ones we get are, with some few exceptions, seemingly roaming farther and farther outside the genre boundaries that I favored to begin with. It’s like talking about a resurgence of adventure games and pointing at Myst knockoffs from the Adventure Company when what’s really wanted is more of the good stuff from LucasArts.

    • Joshua says:

      @ Sassy

      And they are all masterpieces.

    • drewski says:

      @ sassy – before Morrowind was a hit on console, we were lucky to get one.

    • DandyMan says:

      I’m wondering what everyone thinks a RPG is? Personally I think Heavy Rain, Mass Effect 2, The Witcher and Minecraft are my top RPGs; since the time The Witcher came out. But I thought RPG stood for role playing game? I find games that make me think like the character and completely lose my sense of self are the best role playing games, as I take on that role.

      I found Oblivion to be kinda annoying, sure it was fun but I never felt like I was doing any role playing I felt like I was messing around in a wonderland. I tried to get into Fallout 3 but just couldn’t for whatever reason, I don’t mean it’s bad I mean it’s not a game for me. I did really enjoy Fallout NV and sort of got into the role I made but it was more like I was trying to make the role fit me and not trying to be the character; all the glitches, crashes and invisible walls hurt it more. I took a break from the game after 45 hours of play time and when I tried to pick it up again I just couldn’t bring myself to keep going just because I felt no connection to the game anymore.
      Now these things wouldn’t be so bad in any other type of game but I play RPGs to roll play, to be someone other than myself and neither Oblivion, Fallout or Fallout NV, I don’t think they’re as much RPG as they are “action adventure”; I would consider them more of a dungeon crawler than RPG. RPG != levels and stats. I think the whole reason people consider “RPG = levels and stats” because back in the NES and SNES days the only games that asked you to play a role were games that used time spent leveling, farming, gaining stats and gear as game play; the time you spent doing that as a way to get attached to said character so it’s easier to think and empathise with said character. If you think back to those times the only games that really wanted you to play a role, had an actual story that had depth and meaning were games that had levels and stats.
      Sure one could say that now a days RPG means games with leveling but I think that should REALLY change; RPG means role playing game not hey here’s a world, here are your stats, you can level!, it’s all tied together by a half assed story that doesn’t require you to role play in anyway! Have fun! There is nothing wrong with that, I like that stuff and that’s why I love disgaea.
      Well that’s what I think and that doesn’t matter at all. :D Really it doesn’t, this is just twiddling my thumbs on the side of a road.

      So what do you think a RPG is? I would love to read about it.

      P.S. I’m not sure if I should have start a new comment with this, but I’ve been up for 36 hours or so. So what the hell. Also thanks for taking the time to read this.

    • Faic says:

      Example of a ‘proper’ RPG – any one of the Exile/Avernum series.

    • Dreamhacker says:

      The Witcher is the only one in that list to fit.

      The minimum requirements for an RPG is:
      -Advancement system
      -Multi-path conversation trees
      -Multi-path plot trees
      -Support for different problem solving methods

      The Witcher skirts (no pun intended) the border of action-RPG’s, but good examples of pure CRPG’s are Planescape Torment, Baldur’s Gate 1-2, Fallout 1-2, Icewind Dale 1-2, Arcanum, Bloodlines and Temple of Elemental Evil.

    • Tom Camfield says:

      @ Dreamhacker

      Haha, then no JRPGs would be RPGs. :)

      There’s no magic formula for defining an RPG, it’s just games that are like the things we call RPGs already, until they become so different that we need another word for them. At the moment, things like Oblivion and Fallout 3 are close enough to the original RPGs to stay RPGs.

      They’re just Pop-RPGs, and as other posters have said, if they weren’t Pop (as in Pop music), they wouldn’t be made in the first place, because the market for them would be too small. I prefer Mass Effect to Oblivion, but I thought Fallout 3 was okay, some nice ideas, except the whole leveling thing has to be sorted out, and I’d rather it was more open than scripted, or the script was good (the end decision was an easy one to make since I didn’t care about any of the characters, hell no I won’t etc etc) :)

    • MadMatty says:

      Horrible writing in Oblivion?!…. what RPG takes your fancy then? i´d like to hear.

    • MadMatty says:

      As for a “proper” RPG – Role Playing Game, you´ll be better off with Pen n´ Paper ones like “Call of Chtulhu” as there is absolutely no way, any program can cope with the ideas and variety that come from a human player, in the forseeable future.
      Even something as simple as stacking two crates, to get up to a window, will have to be specifically programmed into the game, for it to work.
      The list of things you could do, is ofcourse as endless as the imagination, and therefore no program will offer a True RPG experience…. I´m just glad we have these graphics and twitch style mechanics in computer RPG´s – good fun… even tho the games will only offer you 2-3 options per situation, and you just thought of an ingenious 4th yourself…..

    • TeeJay says:

      RPG can tend in different directions…

      Baldur’s Gate etc. had deep and complex tactics (and Fallout 1 & 2 also focus on carefully planning your moves/turns). In this aspect they are similar to real time and turn based strategy games.

      Diablo 2 (and now Torchlight) are a lot more “twitch / reaction based”. In this aspect they are are similar to top-down arcade shooters.

      More recently – eg KOTOR, Dragon Age, Oblivion, Fallout 3, The Witcher, Mass Effect etc. the trend seems to be towards a more “cinematic” and first person experience. In this aspect they are are similar to first- and third- person shooters.

      (Sorry I am not knowledgable enough to comment on what Fable, Gothic, Final Fantasy or Ultima are like, also JRPGs, MMORPGs … plus other various ‘hybrids’ like Deus Ex etc).

      A vast number of people want more games in the classic Balder’s Gate style (and/or wanting games with more of the depth and complexity of table-top D&D rules) but find that many new RPGs are very lightweight in this respect.

    • Solcry says:


      Bahahahaha, role playing games about… role playing? DON’T BE RIDICULOUS. RPGs are about fiddling with statistics to make that character your very own! THERE IS NO IMMERSION OTHERWISE.

    • Nalano says:

      So much debated in one thread – whether the Mass Effect series count as RPGs, whether Bethesda can produce half-decent writing or a good engine, whether we even make RPGs any more…

      Yeah, the cynic in me says “RPG,” in industry lingo nowadays, means “TPS with stat gain.” If it’s a Bethesda title it means “Sandbox with wooden characters,” and if it’s a Bioware title it means “railroader with hot alien sex.”

      I’m sure we can all debate ’til we’re blue in the face over whether what’s coming out can be decreed “good,” but I think we can all agree that dialogue on the level of, say, Planescape: Torment, is never, ever coming back to CRPGs.

    • Joshua says:

      Thatś because itś, you know, Planescape: Torment.

      RPG’s are about defining your character in an imaginary world,

      In some RPG’s, the character is defined by his decions (mostly made trough dialogue): Like most bioware RPG’s and The Witcher, the story is influenced by the decicions of the players. In other RPG’s, the character is defined mainly by how he solves problems: Like Oblivion and Deus Ex, where you have a myriad of ways to complete a certain objective, like sneaking, using magic (computers and stuff like pepper spray in deus ex) or brutal combat.

      In Planescape Torment, the abilities of the character influence his decisions, and his decisions influence the abilites of the character. This is mainly due to the unique way the game is set up. But there won’t be any game that will be better then Planescape: Torment. Simply because they were the first. The Wright brothers will always be remembered as absolutely brilliant, even though many people built a plane after they did.

    • Joshua says:


      -Multi-path plot trees
      -Support for different problem solving methods

      You know, Baldur’s Gate 2 was the only one of the Infnity Engine games I remember to have the Multi Path plot trees, and Planescape was the only one with Support for different problem solving methods (as opposed to just persuasion and combat, the two usually offered, if at all).
      Fallout 1 and 2 match the description, but you know, Mass Effect 2 had all of those things except mabye the differnet problem solving methods (Although you could, instead of trying to persuade someone, also be impulsive, which was a nice innovation). Your idea of an RPG seems to be that it must have a top down control system, but that really doesn’t define it.

      And no, I don’t really call JRPG’s RPG’s, because… well… The characters are set in stone. What they can do is set in stone. All you do is … click. It’s more like turn based stratagy with a really small group.

    • Joshua says:

      ANd how come people say Mass Effect (2)’s character advancement is dumbed down? The skill tree with points system where you have to choose where you want to specialize in actually let you choose things, make decisions, instead of Baldur’s Gate’s LEVEL UP screen, where it only told you which abilites you just had gained and ocassionally let you select an weapon specialization.

    • Nalano says:


      Not to derail this into yet another ME fanboi squee, but I tend to think that, within the parameters of a CRPG, the ME trilogy’s turning out to be a real “your choices matter” adventure, if not a true blue “you are a unique individual” narrative mirror.

      Hell, the “stuff you did two games ago still have real consequences now” has me hooked like no other game has, aside from the sorts of personal infamy you can gain in MMOs.

    • DandyMan says:

      I hope this isn’t dead yet.
      See, this is the biggest thing that I don’t get is why not being linear a bad thing? Why is not having conversation trees a bad thing? See this is why the genre of “RPG” needs a new name, RPG covers far to much, in my mind movies are RPGs to an extent because in most movies you come to understand the character, know how they think and why they act; there is no need at all for conversation trees or open worlds, all that is needed is a character with depth.
      I do like table top games; for the start you create a character, make it reasons for who they are, give it a world where things happen to it and you are no longer making choices. Once I make a character that character makes choices and I become an extension of the character’s will. It’s kinda like your playing the role of that character. Weird isn’t it. :P This is the same reasons I consider Heavy Rain a REALLY good role playing game, there are very few actual choices but it’s more of you actually being that character and playing it’s role. The game made/allowed me to be the characters not because I made them but because they were engaging, they made me understand their reason, understand who they were and so I became them.
      Personally I think most RPGs are lazy now a day because they don’t bother to give a character personality and use the excuse of creating your own character. Making a character is easy, give it a face, give it a way to interact with the world, BOOM character; making a good character is a bit harder, you need to give it reasons for everything it does; there is no random in the world, we are bound by who we are, our past and the laws of the universe. This is why it can be hard to make an actual good character, be it a person, or a location, there MUST be a reason for everything; not for any reason besides how it got to be like that.
      I would really like game that have the balls to give the player NO choices because the characters are so good you have to agree with everything that’s happening to the extent that having an open world would be completely useless. Kinda like a table top game, you make no choices out side making the character because that character is making the choice not you.(Well a DM can makes choices but that’s because the DM is a god.) Let go of who you are and what you think, believe and care for so you can be that person, who/what ever it may be.
      I’m not saying RPGs that don’t do this are bad, I’m saying they shouldn’t be called an RPG. They should call it something else and not piggy back on the title of RPG. Call it a “make your own adventure” or whatever but not an RPG because if you are not playing a role in a game, you are not playing a RPG.

      Once again thank you for taking the time to read my ramblings and putting thought into what you say!
      Thank you also for not taking offense and changing this for an discussion to an argument to; I swear the RPS’s comment are one of the best on the internet. <3

    • Dreamhacker says:

      You hit both the problem and the beauty of it right on the head: RPG’s try being “too” much because they try (or tried, depending on your POV) to mimic pen and paper RPG’s, which can be… everything at once! PnP RPG’s are competetive games of coop-storytelling, which means you can do pretty much anything. CRPG’s have been trying to catch up ever since :)

      It should also be noted that the biggest (and most grognard) fans of the old Infinity games and Infinity-likes come from PnP backgrounds.

    • DandyMan says:

      Yep, video games are video games. I would love to have a Pen and paper like video game but I doubt it will happen within the next 10 years; trying to fit a pen and paper game into a video is going to be EXTREMELY hard just because in pen and paper you can make changes, add things and think of whatever one wants. Table top games have been around for a long time and they are really good at getting the most out of what they are, use of imagination.
      Video games on the other had are something solid; it’s no longer something that exits in the beauty of the mind but something that we can see; once something is seen it becomes MUCH harder to change what one is seeing in their head. That’s why video games need to play to their strong points, such as atmosphere and high production quality. Tho are the two things table top lack. You could never have Amnesia: The Dark Descent as a table top and be anywhere near as access able, just because you can’t truly have a scary table top game. You could also never have Minecraft like table top be anywhere near as good. But this is all redundant and stuff everyone knows, sorry.
      I don’t even remember why I’m typing anymore and I think I’ve written enough TL;DRs. <.<;

      But I think Solcry's summed the whole RPG thing up quite well. : D

      @Solcry: Excellent comment forgot to say so before.

      Also if you have an account can you edit your posts? I like to fix up my posts a little after I post them.

    • Basil says:

      @BobDicks. Go play Morrowind. C’mon, go play.

      If after that you are still saying it’s “a horrible example” then I don’t know what to say to you.

    • Ninja_Sword says:

      IF they used the Oblivion engine, then not all objects would have shadows, and the game would be much less realistic, thus going against their promises of having a better game-play experience.

  3. Vinraith says:

    As stated elsewhere, the concern here is whether it will properly support modding. If so, great. If not, all the superficial graphical upgrades in the world won’t make it worth playing.

    • trooperdx3117 says:

      Usually I disagree with you Vinraith but here im totally on your side, I dont overly mind slightly rubbish animation and character models as long as there is excellent mod support as in Oblivion and Morrowind

    • Xercies says:

      Slightly dodgy animation and chubby faces never bothered me(especially the latter because to be honest i never noticed it since i’m not very good at facial features and what constitutes an unreal on) at all so i really don’t grudge there old engine. Hopefully its just as easy to mod with this one.

    • Flameberge says:

      Agree. All the pretty graphics in the world won’t matter if the game doesn’t have such an amazingly easily moddable engine.

    • DrGonzo says:

      But all the modding in the world didn’t make Oblivion any less bland and disappointing. Anyway, I can’t imagine them not allowing the game to be modded when the series is almost famous for it.

    • Bhazor says:

      Well given many mods are focused on fixing graphics, path finding, AI and all that shizzle hopefully many won’t be needed.

      But this is Bethesda a company which has previously put a lot of effort into the modding end so I don’t see why they’ll deliberately go against it.

    • BobDicks says:


    • Jad says:

      Anyway, I can’t imagine them not allowing the game to be modded when the series is almost famous for it.

      The thing is, the series is not famous for its modding capability anymore because the majority of its fans are console players. Oblivion sold better on Xbox/PS3, Fallout 3 even more so. Those gamers know nothing about mods, and don’t care.

      I hope you’re right, I really do. Bethesda has still been pretty fair towards PC gamers and they have a long history of mod friendliness; but just look at a Epic, which almost staked its business on modding in the past (Make Something Unreal competitions and all), and now they don’t even make PC games any more.

    • Basil says:

      I wouldnt call building the game on an internally developed, brand-new engine, “superficial” but whatever.

      I guess some people can’t live without their chainmail thong addons and nude patches.

  4. Wizlah says:

    doors. can it do people opening doors?

    Seriously, though, whatever. I would just like more people in cities. I don’t have to talk to them all, 75% of ’em can be just randomly generated fodder, I would just like more populated cities. and less voice acting. more text.

    Maybe I should go back and start morrowind again.


    • noom says:

      +1 on the less voice acting thing. I love it when a character just speaks a few words and the rest of the conversation is conducted in text. Voice acting is just ungainly.

    • Rich says:

      Yeah, and while you’re at it, lets go back to text parsers.

      Seriously though, more people walking around like in Assassin’s Creed would be good. A nod a “good morning”, “excuse me”, or “bugger off” would do for regular passers by.

    • BobDicks says:

      Just make the game one big Choose Your Own Adventure book.

    • 9of9 says:

      In fact, screw it even being a book. I want Todd Howard to come by my house and recite it in verse.

    • Tetragrammaton says:

      Ive always thought these games would be better if they actually made proper towns and cities – with thousand of non interactive npcs – similar to assassins creed. I remember being shocked at just how empty cyrodil felt.

      Edit: Damn, Glacially ninjed. That’ll teach not to go get coffee halfway through a comment.

    • Christopher M. says:

      How about some good text-to-speech engines? Done right, this could fix voice acting forever.

    • MikoSquiz says:

      Could everyone possibly speak a foreign language? Just have a hundred non-conversational NPCs who grunt “Skozdyl granat puk!” or murmur “Weedl kin totpar” and brush you off to every NPC with dialogue. There. Illusion of actual cities (as opposed to the usual TES cardboard sets populated with half a dozen copies of the same three people, in different pants) created.

    • drewski says:

      I’m currently playing a large console RPG without “doored” cells like Bethesda and believe me, you soon get sick of waiting at a place an NPC is *going* to be as soon as the 360 gets around to streaming the model off the DVD.

      I hate the limitations of consoles :-(

    • jackflash says:

      I hate the limitations of consoles

      That’s why this is a PC gaming site.

    • drewski says:

      Because Bethesda are going to program a completely different engine from the one consoles get…

      We get what the consoles get.

    • MadMatty says:

      Problem with lots of NPC´s in cities: it takes a lot of CPU pathfinding, and a lot of graphics resources- i did see videos of Assasins Creed, but thats also the best crowd system i´ve seen sofar- ever.
      Bigger crowds will show up as computer horsepower is improved, i´m sure.
      If only the computer games industry would share technologies, instead of competing head-to-head, we would have had the future 15 years ago.
      I mean, how many graphics engines do you really need? If we´d all just stick to the coolest one, say for argument, the Unreal 3 engine, and just work on modding and improving that, countless man-hours would be saved, and we´d be that much closer to game Nirvana.

    • TeeJay says:

      In “Hitman: Blood Money” the New Orleans Mardi Gras level had tons of people in it, without being very demanding on systems iirc.

  5. Mr Labbes says:

    My laptop can’t run the Gamebryo engine at more than 20fps, and I get lots of crashes, so HUZZAH.

    • Wizlah says:

      out of interest, what graphics card/igp do you have sitting in your laptop?

    • Mr Labbes says:

      An ATI 5650. Serves me well, just not with Gamebryo games.

    • Wizlah says:

      Right, well, my lowly 4200 igp on this lappy deffo won’t cope. Nice to know, mind.

      I’ve thought about putting morrowind on the laptop, but I don’t think it would be happy with the seriously pretty bells and whistles mods out there. And now that I’ve played with ’em, I don’t think I can go back . . .

    • Mr Labbes says:

      I should really try installing Morrowind (again). Bells and whistles are always a good thing around Christmas.

  6. coldwave says:

    Bye-bye mod support.

    • CaptainHairy says:

      Yeah, it’s weird how Gamebryo is the only engine with mod support oh wait

    • Teddy Leach says:

      Bye-bye instability. Hopefully.

    • Torgen says:

      Well, making an in-house engine is *one* way to stop the modders from totally showing you up on your own games.

    • anduin1 says:

      showing you up?? More like annihilating any of your patch support and mini mods for nearly every game they do.

    • BobDicks says:

      Did I miss something? Did Bethesda announce they’re not going to support mods while I waan’t looking or is everyone here just a bunch of nihilists?

  7. Toby says:

    Phew! I was really worried at first.

  8. VelvetFistIronGlove says:

    Engine shmengine. First and foremost it’s the writing that matters. I’m still not convinced Bethesda can do a good job there at all. I spent a lot of time in both Morrowind and Oblivion, but neither is particularly memorable; so I’ll definitely wait for a WIT on Skyrim before considering throwing money at it.

    • Bremze says:

      @VelvetFistIronGlove: I’d say that Morrowind is definitely memorable, but due to the game world, not because of the storyline. Even though the game was mostly brown, It had many striking locales, that contribute to the alien atmosphere of the game.

    • DrGonzo says:

      I actually quite enjoyed the writing in Morrowind. I read a lot of the books, which is something I don’t normally do. But other than that, I’ve never enjoyed the writing in any of their games.

    • anduin1 says:

      Morrowind writing charm come in mostly through the scattered books in the world and the side quests. The main story had that kind of generic story though I liked how intricate it became, forcing you to unite all these groups together to support you. Oblivion felt like a children’s novel compared to Morrowind’s writing.

    • MikoSquiz says:

      I’m going to buy the goddamn thing in any case. I just hope they hired some proper writers and either got a lot more voice actors in or found some way around that issue. And came up with a new character development system. And nicked the combat system out of Dark Messiah of Might & Magic or at least hired one or more of the modders who made “combat that isn’t shit” mods for Oblivion.

      The #1 thing I would love to see would be a much, much smaller world – say, one city and a bit of surrounding countryside – with more than cursory attention paid to detail, but I know that’s never going to happen and am by now roughly OK with that.

    • drewski says:

      The lore of the storyline is awesome, but I don’t know how you can get that across properly without hours and hours of exposition which nobody in their right mind would sit/read through.

      I’ve always liked the Morrowind approach to storytelling – give me the basics and let me find out the rest from reading stuff in the world, talking to people for longer than I strictly “need” to etc. That way I can skip the walls of text if I want to, or I can read them and find out more about the world and the story if I need to.

    • millertime says:

      “The #1 thing I would love to see would be a much, much smaller world – say, one city and a bit of surrounding countryside – with more than cursory attention paid to detail, but I know that’s never going to happen and am by now roughly OK with that.”

      Have you played Nehrim? Besides the fact that you can’t run the game on any system with high textures or LOD on, Nehrim was just as Vast as Oblivon but had amazing attention to detail in its cities. The leveling system was also superior to Oblivion and enemies didn’t level with you which i found annoying. It was more like morrowind, except in Nehrim you can’t one hit kill all of your enemies at level 30, it had the area’s labeled with what level they were made for, so if you were level 10 you don’t walk into the lvl 25-30 area.

      On a scale of 1 to 10 as far as the feel of the game and the storyline goes, Nehrim was a 10 and Oblivion was a 4. My wish is that Bethesda played Nehrim and learned something from it but I highly doubt that…

    • MikoSquiz says:

      I was going to say I never heard of it, but I totally did play it. I just never made it out of the opening dungeon.

    • millertime says:

      Yeah I hear two things about Nehrim. Those who finish the game and loved it, and some never make it out of the dungeon. They should have put more work into the dungeon because too many things weren’t obvious. But the rest of the game after that was fantastic. I might actually play through it another time.

  9. BobDicks says:

    PS: If I cannot pleasure myself to the beast races I will NOT be buying this game.

    • BobDicks says:

      I also will not buy the game if there is inadequate modding support, Where would I be without the massive collection of adult and erotic mods I have collected for Morrowind and Oblivion?

    • ripping says:

      On a register?

  10. SwiftRanger says:

    Good riddance, Bethesda’s implementation of the Gamebryo engine is the only one that gives me hard freezes and BSODs. Seriously, not a single issue with any other recent game, only with Fallout 3 and Oblivion (didn’t try New Vegas for the obvious reasons). Got something to do with that ffdshow filter but I’ve tried nearly everything on my side to fix it, didn’t help. Divinity II runs on Gamebryo as well but hasn’t crashed on me at all. You go connect the dots who is at fault here.

    Hopefully modding is still in yes.

    • Bioptic says:

      Yeah, I just can’t make any headway into Fallout 3 when the thing horribly fucks my machine after anywhere between 20 mins to 3 hours of play. The most important aspect of any open-world game should be engine stability – it doesn’t matter how vast the terrain you can render if you can’t traverse it without your machine making some ungodly sound and imploding.

    • jon_hill987 says:

      Indeed. Some other Gamebryo games that don’t crash for me include:

      Defence Grid: The Awakening
      Blood Bowl: Legendary Edition
      Star Trek: Bridge Commander

      Fallout 3 on the other hand… As much as I enjoyed it saving before loading a new area was a must…

  11. Inigo says:

    “built internally”.
    By Bethesda.
    The horror.

    • geldonyetich says:

      Good point. Well, perhaps they did a better job this time… to an extent, I rather like what they did with Daggerfall… several patches later.

    • Bhazor says:

      Gamebyro is old and outdated but on release it was pretty incredible.

    • BAReFOOt says:

      Wanna bet the only reason they “built” it internally, is because they are cheap asses, always taking the lowest quality that they can get people to do it for. Where “do” is “develop”, “buy” and anything else too. ;)

    • Bhazor says:

      Because it doesn’t take tens of thousands of man hours and any other costs to create even the most basic 3d engine.

    • Ateius says:

      Doesn’t Bethesda own id software now, though? I’m hoping “built internally” means “we made id do it”.

    • Daniel Carvalho says:

      Best comment evr.

      I totally agree.

    • Eclipse says:

      you know bethesda owns ID software now, right? Maybe they’ll take a thing or two from ID Tech 5, hopefully…

  12. PleasingFungus says:

    PARTIAL VINDICATION. (If I was wrong, at least all the people replying were wrong too! HAH.)

  13. PrinceOLies says:

    Everything they say are lies. Like their Radiant AI as demonstrated:
    link to

    And in actuality:

    • Urael says:

      Oh my god…if only that had been the Oblivion experience I might still be playing the thing now. That woman looked REAL. Particularly when she paralysed her doggie for barking during her reading, although setting fire to it a minute later might have been a touch…psychotic.

  14. Spacewalk says:

    Let’s all fall through the floor as we celebrate this wonderful news.

    • newton says:


    • Brian Manahan says:

      What a shame.

    • BAReFOOt says:


      or, if you are a noob, you may know it as


      in the second instalment. ;)

    • MikoSquiz says:

      *picks up glass to make a celebratory drink*

      *watches all the rest of the glassware begin to levitate*

    • TheTingler says:

      I love the idea that you Barefoot consider people who only played Doom II, a 15-year-old game, to be “noobs”. :)

      idclip’s catchier anyway.

    • Spacewalk says:

      You’re still using idclip? Man I changed that using Dehacked yonks ago.

  15. Kevbo says:

    As long as there is mod support I will be happy. No mods means I’m a sad panda and may affect my need to get this game. However if they have an online co-op mode with levels that end with you fighting huge dragons ala monster hunter style but with spells…… then count me in :)

  16. coldwave says:

    By the way, are Cliffracers going to be included in this game?

    • ripping says:

      Hope so. I’ve been making do from Oblivion on by naming my dudes Cliff Racers, but that’s beginning to pall.

    • noobnob says:

      The question you should be asking is “How many Cliff Racers can the new engine render on screen at once?”

  17. The Sombrero Kid says:

    Super Woooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

  18. sprink says:

    sounds like id Tech 5?

  19. jameskond says:

    id Tech 5 maybe?

    • bildo says:

      depends on if internally means was being developed before we bought ID or after.

    • Kadayi says:

      As I understand it Tech 5 can’t support day/night cycles (the ingame lighting is ‘somehow baked’ into the megatexture map from what I’ve read), which probably precludes it, unless Beth intend to go down the route Bioware did with Dragon Age and have fixed spaces where in it’s almost always day or night save certain situations.

  20. Tommy_Pepper says:

    …and there was much jubilation by all!

  21. Bennus says:

    ‘Right, we’re going to pretend to launch next year. Someone pick an arbitrary, yet interesting date.’



    Clearly be seeing it in 2012.

    • noobnob says:

      It’s not entirely arbritary. That’s the month some publishers aim for their AAA, flagship games, to be ready right before the holiday season.

  22. Freud says:

    Thank god. While I appreciate the services of good old Gamebryo engine, New Vegas showed just how antique the tech is. Time to retire it.

  23. TheApologist says:


    People are right, engines don’t mean much without good art design, good writing, and good RPG mechanics, all of which could be improved on over Oblivion. But that doesn’t mean this is cause for complaint – quite the reverse. The old engine was really beginning to creak.

  24. MrThingy says:

    I smell fecal matter, not unlike that expelled by the male bovine.

    • rei says:

      It does sound like Mr. Breckon is choosing his words very carefully and tiptoeing around the question. I’ve heard enough politicians and PR people talk to recognize that. Todd Howard has already said that it’s an evolution of the Gamebryo engine so that’s what I’m going to believe. It can be hugely improved, just like the version used for Morrowind was for Oblivion, but I expect it’s still based on the same tech.

      Not that I see it as a problem or anything, and I’m sure from the point of view of the improvements it might as well be a completely new engine.

    • Nick says:

      I thought it was equine myself.

  25. newton says:

    Engines don’t matter? Not really when it comes to The Elder Scrolls. Every iteration used to bring the good looks of the PC gaming to a whole new level (both technically AND artistically) and it was a genuine part of the whole experience. I’ll never forget the first time I crawled out of Privateer’s Hold into a delightful snowfall or the first time I saw the night sky in Morrowind and my jaw dropped (while the game soon followed with a glorious BSOD). With Skyrim, I want to be amazed again. Even if it means patching the thing ad nauseam.

    • gunputty says:

      yesssssss, wot he sed

    • BAReFOOt says:

      Patches? What patches??
      You bought a license. Despite knowing what you could expect. What would be the point of patches after that?

    • WJonathan says:

      The night sky + Morrowind background theme was really a mesmerizing experience for me. It’s one of the things I’ll always vividly remember about Morrowind.

  26. Eukatheude says:

    I hope the next good new is that they fired all animators.

    • mcnostril says:

      From a cannon.
      Into the sun.

    • rei says:

      It’s something they’re aware of, admit to, and seek to rectify:

      Eurogamer: Oblivion and Fallout 3 were huge successes, but what can you do to improve still as a company?

      Todd Howard: There’s always stuff to improve. If I had to take a step back, I think our worlds are very good, I think we’re on the cutting edge as far as that goes. When it comes to the characters and the animation, I think there are other people who do it much, much better. That’s something we’ve put a lot of time into – not just technology but people and talent, and how long we spend doing individual elements.

      How other characters behave and look on the screen is the next thing people need to do better. There are people doing it really well, but by and large the environments look good and it’s just getting people to behave in those environments better.

    • Pantsman says:

      Well at least they recognize the problem. I just hope that that means they’ll actually fix it.

  27. Consumption says:

    I can’t believe that no one has brought up the most important issue: Alt tab and multi monitor support. If I had a nickel for every time fallout crashed on me because I wanted to check the wiki, I’d be a rich man.

    • DJ Phantoon says:

      Step 1: Run game in Steam
      Step 2: Shift Tab
      Step 3: Profit!
      Step 4: Why are you still reading this list???

  28. Cooper says:

    Now I am excited.

    Will wait for someone to mod-out the stupid Elder Scrolls levelling system first…

  29. Vodkarn says:

    “It’s a new graphics/gameplay engine built internally. We’ll have more details down the road.”

    Read: We adapted the gamebryo engine in-house to our new game.

    I really miss the old Elder Scrolls, I found Oblivion to be bizarrely empty. The main city had, what, 3-1 guards-to-citizens ratio?

    Also that levelling system…argh.

  30. Fox89 says:

    Hooray! No more Gamebryo! Or, if it is, heavily modified Gamebryo! This is good cause in its current form it makes me cry.

    Manly tears, you understand.

  31. poop says:

    do you think shadows will exist in this bethesda engine or am I asking too much?

    • Zyrusticae says:

      This is what I’m hoping for, too. Shadows and non-craptacular animations.

      Oh, and stability. Though that might be pushing it…

  32. Zhan says:

    Now that’s a great bit of news. Can’t wait to see if they redid how the world works. Maybe seamless map or something great like that. I’d love to enter a shed and not have to wait through a load screen.

  33. Quxxy says:

    This news does not particularly inspire confidence in me.

    Keep in mind that the new engine is being developed by a company who, by their own admission, couldn’t work out how to get NPCs to move up and down ladders.

    I believe one of the higher-ups in Bethesda said something to the effect of “we’re not very good programmers”.

    Until the game has been out for at least a few weeks with a distinct lack of “the game’s buggy as hell… again!” sentiment on the Interwebs, I’ll maintain my pessimism. On the bright side, when it turns out to be a dog’s breakfast yet again, I won’t be disappointed this time! :D

  34. reticulate says:

    I will make a sacrifice to the gaming gods if this is actually new and not just an even more molested (and broken) version of Gamebryo.

    That engine desperately needs to be put out to pasture.

  35. outoffeelinsobad says:

    Hey guys! Back from the store; I got all the tar and feathers and everything!

    …Wait …New game engine? …What?

  36. Jackalope says:

    I never really any problems with Oblivion. It ran first time out of the box on release, which really suprised me as my PC at the time was kinda outdated. If it ever crashed it was only from mods and that was only due to me making a basic error installing them and were usually easily fixed. I love the Elder Scrolls games, ever since Daggerfall. Morrorwind is probably superior to Oblivion, the world felt more varied, but then Shivering Isles made up for that. Taking my Robert E. Howard inspired barbarian into that lunatic world and stabbing everyone repeatedly with a big pointy sword was lovely! Really looking forward to it.

  37. MrEvilGuy says:

    As long as they still have the same voice-actors, I’m okay with this.

  38. Zyrxil says:

    link to
    “Howard wouldn’t be drawn on many details about the game, but said the technology was derived from the engine that powered Fallout 3, albeit with significant modifications.”

    I don’t know why anyone would be happy. There’s nothing about Bethesda that inspires confidence in their ability to program.

    • skinlo says:

      So wait, if they can’t program, they can’t animate or model, they can’t write a script or storyline and can’t get good voice acting, why do people like their games?? :P

    • BobDicks says:

      I dunno but a bunch of dudes are probably going to say something like “It’s ’cause there are retardeded!!1111111111”.

    • poop says:

      people enjoy the feeling of freedom bethesda games offer and are willing to overlook flaws because of it, also for PC gamers modding it becomes a sort of tweaking hobby

      that and they are marketed pretty well, which is why public opinion of oblivion dropped off really hard about a month after teh game came out and has only just started to climb because the internet has developed people who will white knight literally anything

  39. skinlo says:

    Ok it seems I the only one who played this vanilla and enjoyed (well, apart from the UI mod to make it work on PC better).

    • Bhazor says:

      Didn’t you know? If one person doesn’t like a game then it is automatically the worst game ever and no one can ever enjoy it. That’s the internet, baby.

  40. Andrew Doull says:

    Here’s hoping its a reskin of the Mount & Blade engine…

  41. Blackdawn451 says:

    Slightly related note: is it just me, or does Fallout NV look worse than Oblivion. I think that the gambryo engine can produce good (not great) visuals if used properly.

  42. panther says:

    good news everybody!

  43. Basilicus says:

    I still don’t get all the leveling complaints. It makes sense to me. You start out as a nobody. The skills you develop are the ones you actually use whilst progressing through your adventure.

    Nothing breaks a game for me more than killing everything in sight with a bow, while never pulling out my sword, and then being able to dump all my points into swordsmanship at the next level up. It makes zero sense to me, but I guess this is the “realistic” approach for every other role player out there.

    • drewski says:

      i thought the complaint about “levelling” was the way monsters level with you, rather than having set critters in set parts of the world which are specific levels.

      Morrowind dodged this by having a critter table, where at level 1 you got rats, at level 50 you got vampires. Oblivion messed this up by giving you level 1 rats at level 1, and level 50 rats at level 50, so you never got any sense of progression. Fallout 3 fixed this by having a variety of enemy types for a cell, each of which spawned depending on your level the first time you enter an area. So if you go to a part of the city at level 5, you get Super Mutants which are a good fight for a level 5. If you go to a different part of the city at level 20, you get the toughest Super Mutants in the game – but if you go back to the first part of the city, the Super Mutants there are still the ones you were fighting at level 5.

      If the complaint is that you level up the skills you use then yeah, that’s a bit silly. I think that’s one of the great features of TES games. However, the trick of putting the skills you’ll use as minor skills so that you can be wandering around with 100 armour and 100 blade and still be level 3 is pretty stupid. Be interesting to see if they can figure out a design around that.

    • newton says:

      I think folks are complaining about the Oblivion world leveling up with you..? ‘cos the Elder Scrolls character development through actually using skills is like THE BEST THING EVER and one of the main reasons many people (myself included) fell in love with the series in the first place. It makes sense, it’s immersive & feels much more satisfying than just distributing points all over the place.

    • BobDicks says:

      Nothing is quite as fun as standing in a corner casting 1 damage destruction spells on yourself all day.

    • drewski says:

      Cantrips are an accepted part of the mastery of wizardry.

    • MikoSquiz says:

      I disagree, Bob. Hopping up and down ceaselessly day in and day out is even more fun than that.

    • newton says:

      Not to mention the beautiful fact that it’s entirely up to you. I’ve finished both Daggerfall & Morrowind with mostly spellcasting characters and the only corners I stood in were those of the dungeons where I got lost & lonely & collapsed to tears (Mantellan Crux, anyone?). It really boosted my Emo stats, though.

    • malkav11 says:

      I really dislike learn-by-doing character advancement systems, personally. It prevents me from deliberately and purposefully designing my character in the directions I would like them to go, and rather sculpts them via what’s conveniently placed in front of them by the game. It also tends to be unbalanced – some skills far easier to raise than others (armorer, for example, is a very important skill in TES, but an enormous pain to raise), and some contributing nothing to your survivability yet advancing your level anyway, most problematic in Oblivion. It also promotes doing stupid stuff like hopping everywhere you go and casting weak spells ad infinitum. It’s arguably more realistic, sure, but why should I care? It’s a game, it’s about fun and realism should be discarded wherever it conflicts with fun.

      Morrowind’s trainers help a great deal because they allow one to deliberately raise skills without the tedious and stupid grind of forcible repetition. Unfortunately, Oblivion restricted their use to 5 times per level with no unused training sessions carrying over from one level to the next, crippling their utility for no good reason. There’s also the issue of the particular Elder Scroll design of having your stat growth tied to the skills that happened to lead to your level, forcing some very weird character build decisions to obtain optimal growth. Fortunately, that can be alleviated by levelling mods.

    • mwoody says:

      There are three concepts in Oblivion that form the fundamental basis for the leveling system. Taken on their own, there’s nothing specifically wrong with them in and of themselves:

      1) Skills raise in level by using them.
      2) Your numerical character level increases when you’ve increased one of several specific “major” skills by a certain amount.
      3) The game world scales to match your numerical character level.

      TOGETHER, however, these three mix like oil and water and antimatter. I went into a few specific problems below in another comment.

    • Basilicus says:

      If you truly stand all day in the corner swinging/casting at air, you’re just restupulid. I’ve never trolled before, preferring the high roads of educated conversation and pointed debate, and believing that everyone has their own way of enjoying a game, but there it is. Restupulid and you. You and restupulid.

      What’s that resting over there? Oh, it’s my case. I look at your case, and wonder why you forgot to bring it home with you. Is it because you’re restupulid? Yes.

    • Nalano says:

      The irony of this, I suppose, is that to counteract the silliness of scaling enemies, FONV largely doesn’t have them… so the game becomes fantastically easy around level 12.

  44. nuh uh no way says:

    would anyone care to tell me why they disliked oblivion’s leveling system so much? I.. liked it. my character got better at the things he did by doing them. there was never any grinding for me.

    • poop says:

      the game scaled NPCs and enemies to your level so no matter what point you are at in the game you never feel like you have progressed, bandits in glass armor etc etc

    • mwoody says:

      God, I could write a book on it – it’s the worst system in any RPG game, paper or computer, ever released. Here’s just a few bullet points:

      * You’re penalized for making your major stats be those you use most – like, a warrior should take all casting skills, for example. Having skills be non-major doesn’t cap them or penalize them in any way, it just doesn’t make your level increase when said skill does.

      * It’s possible to design a character that can’t reach maximum level. The higher a major skills’ initial value, the less times you can level off that skill.

      * You’re penalized with lower stats if you allow a major skill to level up too quickly. Doing this too many times permanently and irrevocably decreases the maximum you can raise a stat. It strongly encourages using a wide range of skills, even useless ones you have to manually train, and yes – once again, it discourages “major” skill use. Oblivion is the only game I’ve ever played where I learned to hate the “you’ve gained a level” sound. “Goddammit, I accidentally hit level 10 using my sword in that cave without spending an hour jumping in a corner. Now I get +1 agility instead of +5.”

      * The grossly uneven leveling speed of various skills rewards – even requires – standing in a corner and jumping or casting 1mp spells. You could argue that the world leveling around you makes that pointless, but that facet is in and of itself a negative (the oft-lamented treadmill effect of universal scaling).

      * Focusing on non-combat skills to any extent, if they’re focal points for your class, causes the horrible scaling system to render the game unplayable, as you’re now a defenseless character facing high-end challenges. For example: a thief who spent the first 10 hours stealing things from houses in town would find even the most basic creatures in the game world unkillable, because sneak and lockpicking had advanced their character level without giving them any combat ability. What’s more, these higher-difficulty creatures would net the player no extra skill or experience, so it’s not even a rewarding challenge. Meanwhile, that same thief will discover that everything he just stole quickly becomes pointless as the loot tables adjust, nor would anything in the world he could steal be useful as he reaches higher level. In short, the only viable way to play a thief – steal everything early while it’s valuable – also breaks the class.

      * Quests with scaled rewards would end up penalizing you for completing them too early by giving you weaker versions of important artifacts (that could not be upgraded).

      I could go on, but these are the major points. And sure, some people didn’t really pay much attention to the system and therefore didn’t mind it, but that one needs to ignore a game’s fundamental shortcomings to enjoy it is hardly a vote in its favor.

    • drewski says:

      @ mrwoody – some counterpoints.

      * What’s wrong with having a warrior level up when he’s used a lot of warrior skills? It’s only a “penalty” if you’re trying to powergame and get all your skills maxxed or something – if you want to roleplay a wizard and choose wizardy major skills, you will be an excellent wizard – both in skills and level – by casting lots of spells. This is entirely appropriate, unless you want to have all your wizardy skills high whilst playing a “warrior”.

      * What’s wrong with not being able to reach maximum level? You’re playing a role playing game – play a role. I was awesome at my role when I stopped being able to level up in Oblivion, despite not getting anywhere near the level cap. If the purpose of the game was to hit maximum level then sure, it would be a problem. But the purpose of the game is not to hit maximum level.

      * Not high enough attributes? Again, are you playing a “role playing” game, or a “get my character to the highest level with the highest skills with the highest attributes” game? There’s nothing wrong with a wizard being a shitty melee fighter or a warrior not having high intelligence if he hasn’t used those attributes. Stop GAMING and start PLAYING.

      * The different rate in skill progression is a fair point – not that there’s anything wrong with it in theory, but they didn’t get the balance right in Oblivion.

      * I agree on the non-combat focus too, although I’d argue that’s a problem with world design, rather than a problem with the levelling system. There’s nothing wrong with a system that levels you for using non-combat skills in theory, but in a game where being able to kill stuff is critical, making killing stuff harder when you’re no better at it is a problem.

      * Scaled rewards are indeed stupid, to a point. I don’t mind scaled random lewt but quest rewards should be static.

      3/6 – pass.

    • Nalano says:

      Lemme side with mwoody here:

      Your critique, drewski, that mwoody is powergaming misses the mark. He is not.

      He is merely pointing out the counter-intuitive nature of the leveling system: Namely, that there is absolutely, positively, no reason to level a character.

      The entire point of leveling in an RPG is to do two things, gameplay-wise:

      a) To become stronger in comparison to your enemies.
      b) To unlock more difficult regions.

      Having enemies auto-level with you forces you to “powergame” because, as mwoody has pointed out, it makes you weaker in comparison to your enemies if you don’t. The game actually punishes you for leveling inefficiently, by making itself harder.

      In that sense, mwoody is in the right: Roleplaying is actually hindered – hamstrung – by such a system. The warrior who takes wizard skills actually fares better than the warrior who takes warrior skills, because the enemies he fights are easier.

      Your alternative, however, denies the existence of a gameplay system rather than debating its limitations. Every game will have mechanics for combat and progression. Not every game must have one so broken as this one.

      Actually, to unbreak this system, Bethesda would only have to do two things:

      1) Remove scaled enemies and just populate the regions with enemies across the gamut of difficulty. Exploration then rewards progression.

      2) A system where one builds skills by using them works. A system where one also levels stats a la traditional RPGs doesn’t. You don’t need stats to increase by levels. Have the skills do that themselves: Running increases agility. Getting hit increases endurance. LEVELS ARE SUPERFLUOUS.

      That is all.

    • Warth0g says:

      Nice response Drewski… I think the point about playing not gaming is well made and translates just as well to many other games. Too much play by spreadsheet these days – look at Starcraft or DOTA. It’s increasingly about stats not having fun.

      Having said that, figthing super rats was just silly, so modding the levelling system in Oblivion was one of the first things I did….

    • Kadayi says:

      “Having enemies auto-level with you forces you to “powergame” because, as mwoody has pointed out, it makes you weaker in comparison to your enemies if you don’t. The game actually punishes you for leveling inefficiently, by making itself harder.”


      I can’t recall the exact details (it’s been a while), but I think I with my first build I made herbalism one of my primary skills and that contributed to my character levelling up like a bastard to the extent that even a fight with a single goblin was hard work to win. My next build I assigned all the primary slots to little used skills and literally cut through enemies as if they were paper dolls. It was a nonsense system.

    • phlebas says:

      That isn’t an argument in favour of powergaming, though. It’s an argument that having the environment level with you was a bad thing, which I don’t think anyone here was disagreeing with.

  45. Davey Jones says:

    Gamebryo Engine 2.0 – Now with faces that don’t make children cry.

  46. malkav11 says:

    I’m not sure whether their control of the Fallout license would let them adapt the SPECIAL system for use in TES, but I sure wish they would if it does.

  47. 12kill4 says:

    Thanks Nick. Fuck Nick. Bird Noise. Wizzzard. Etc.

  48. Jimmy Z says:

    So the way I’m looking at this is, that they’ve been using an updated gamebryo engine up until very recently and now they’ve suddenly switched to an “All New” engine in the last few months and the release date is less than a year away? Either the news about the engine switch or the release date is bullshit, but they sure as hell can’t both be true.

    • drewski says:

      If they’ve been internally modifying the Gamebryo engine, I guess both statements can be technically true.

      I think we can say two things – firstly, it’s not idTech 5 and secondly, it’s not the same Gamebryo engine as in F3 or Oblivion. Whether it’s F3Gamebryo+ or actually new tech remains to be seen.

    • MadMatty says:

      Yeah….. for me though its a fairly minute point… all 3d engines have certain baseline calculations in common, so if its a brand new engine or a heavily modded old one, wouldn´t neccessarily mean one or the other.
      Just wish Bethesda would upgrade their animation system into something seemly… the engine does a great job of other things, like showing miles and miles of distant terrain, which i personally like a lot.

  49. Luminaflare says:

    Judging by the id dev session at eurogamer expo I think it’ll be on RAGE. I asked them if they were going to license out RAGE and they replied with that it’s going to be distributed under the zenimax devs and that’s all. RAGE seems like a good engine for it and it saves Bethesda the trouble of making a new one.

    • SilverSilence says:

      You realize ‘RAGE’ is a game and not an engine, right? IDTech 5 is the engine.

  50. Nick R says:

    Oblivion was very dissapointing for me and yes, not an original reason, but it was due to the levelling system.

    For example I quite like the idea of gaining elven armour and stuff by having to go down into those elven ruins, but what’s the point when every single boneheaded bandit will be wearing all the good stuff at a certain level. I mean if a highwayman is that good at his job that he can afford the most expensive armour in the land then maybe he should just retire.

    There are flawed games where I can forgive the flaws, no matter how many of them there are, and still love the game. But then there are some games where just one or two flaws in an otherwise astonishing game ruins the whole experiance for me. I know it is tired to go on about levelling problems but for it ruined the whole experiance and was not something I could ignore.

    • Vinraith says:

      People that go on about the levelling problems in Oblivion are aware that there are literally dozens if not hundreds of mods that address that issue in various ways, right?

    • poop says:

      that doesn’t make it excuseable

    • Nick R says:

      “People that go on about the levelling problems in Oblivion are aware that there are literally dozens if not hundreds of mods that address that issue in various ways, right?”

      Yes. I am aware. But I would prefer to buy something that works out the box, not something I have to sort out myself.

    • suibhne says:

      It’s nice if you’re just trying to be helpful, Vinraith. If you were trying to somehow make an excuse for one of Oblivion’s most glaring flaws, otoh, your logic is a pretty uncomfortable slippery slope – because it’s the same argument that Bethesda uses to avoid making a usable interface, balanced character system, etc.

    • Urthman says:

      I don’t know about Vinraith, but whenever I say “play Oblivion with the community mods that fix the balance issues” it’s because if you don’t, you’re missing out on a fantastic RPG.

      And that’s far more important than figuring out exactly how much we hate Bethesda for releasing with a flawed leveling and balance system in the first place.

    • derf says:

      Vinraith said: “People that go on about the levelling problems in Oblivion are aware that there are literally dozens if not hundreds of mods that address that issue in various ways, right?”

      This is a pretty destructive philosophy. The trouble with relying on the modding community to add the real content to the game is that very quickly you end up with a very instable piece of software. I’ve recently experienced this with Civ V and the recent Fallout titles.

    • Zogtee says:

      “Yes. I am aware. But I would prefer to buy something that works out the box, not something I have to sort out myself.”

      The point is that Oblivion DID work out of the box. It is perfectly possible to play through the game as it stands. You may not have liked the way it worked, but it did work.

      You’re left with the choice of doing something about it or not.

    • malkav11 says:

      There aren’t any mods that rip out Bethesda’s awful levelling system entirely and replace it with something better, though. They just mitigate the pain.