Hands On: Star Wars The Old Republic PvP

I'll P against your P!

Last week we brought you word of the impressive-looking PvE content in Star Wars: The Old Republic. Now is the turn of the PvP. How does this fit into a game that’s so story-focused? Read on.

When playing The Old Republic it’s often hard to shake the feeling that it’s an MMO against its own will. Created by the crowned masters of the RPG, whose expertise lies in single-player, personally I’m very excited to see their developing an online game that captures so much of what makes their games great. It’s just that occasionally the online component can frustrate that. I’m hopeful that the end result will exploit this tension, and bring us the best of both worlds. I’m not convinced that’s going to happen via the PvP.

I think my experience of what was only one level of PvP, played four times, was extremely tarnished. Randomly assigned classes, I had the Imperial Agent – coincidentally the character I’d spent many hours with in the PvE. So I knew my way around the skills, boosted with a specialization in Sniper that – like so much with the Imperial Agent – became available when in cover. In an arena with almost no cover.

I should declare my disinterests at the start. When it comes to MMOs, I’m far more interested in PvE than PvP. But it’s always my contention that a game’s PvP should be able to grip me when I do play it. BioWare are keen to stress that their PvP content is designed to ensure everybody involved has a role. They have a desire to promote team behaviour. Various classes, of which there are so many, can team up to work together, and each can gain what they’re called Badges as they play.

Badges aren’t achievements, but rather honours given to players for completing certain tasks. Perhaps you’ll complete an objective, or perform more than 10k worth of damage. These badges will bolster the awards you receive. You’ll even be able to go on a “Badge Streak”.

Badges award players with Valour. Valour is the PvP equivalent of XP, which while not able to exceed your current XP level, will let you unlock unique equipment. And the higher your Valour, the more important you are in the game’s Warzones. You can also spend Valour on stims – the injections that give you a temporary advantage in combat – from stim vendors found near spawn points in maps.

There’s also something called Resolve in there, which is designed to prevent the frustration of being constantly Area Of Effected to death. AoE attacks will stop working on a player for a short time, meaning others will have to resort to more elaborate tactics.

So our particular Warzone was set in the Alderaan Civil War. The Sith and Republic have found an orbital canon base, and they’re fighting for control of it. There’s three points that need to be captured to gain full control of the canons, which will fire upon the ship of the enemy.

You spawn on your own ship, perhaps visit the vendor, and then ride a floaty bike down to the surface. From there you can leap into action, attempting to occupy the three key points in the arena, in and eight vs. eight battle.

So there’s nothing that we haven’t seen before, clearly trying to borrow from FPS multiplayer in the same way as, say, Global Agenda. And for many in the room it seemed to be lots of fun.

For me, with an Imperial Agent, it was a tedious, miserable experience. Relying on the game’s cover system proved surprisingly untroubling in the PvE content. There was such an abundance of things to hide behind that I rarely felt unable to join in. Here, at any point when another couple of players attacked me, it became clear that all I could do was wait to die, respawn, and repeat.

Of the areas we were defending, two were surrounded by a balcony behind which I could crouch. This was the role I played, trying to snipe out those who were attempting to ‘use’ the target base for long enough. But the level’s design was such that anyone could see where I was, and so all anyone needed to do was run up the ramp to my position and hit me a few times. Such as the Imperial Agent is, as soon as I left cover I was pretty much useless against the full arsenal of any other class, and pretty much had to stand there and take it.

More ludicrous was when I tried to stay in cover and yet fight someone behind me. Oddly this tactic actually worked slightly better, as ridiculous as it looked, but still the Agent’s skills were not designed for melee and I never stood a chance.

After two plays through I had no desire to ever see this Warzone again. We played it a further two times. At one point during these second two attempts we were told, “Of course, this level will have more cover by the time the game comes out.” Of course.

But even if I had lucked out with a character better designed for this environment, it’s hard to be too excited about what was on offer. This was standard Conquest multiplayer. Yes – it’s a great opportunity to pit your character’s skill setup against other players, and it’s certainly more interesting than an old-fashioned PvP slaughter field, but it’s certainly nothing new.

With “Class Roles”, scoreboards, badges, Valour, rewards, Resolve, and so on, this is by no means a quick aside. It seems to me that most of the development on the game is now getting PvP right, for the huge numbers of potential players who will be brought in by that.

The major issue for me is how awkwardly it fits into a game that was obviously intended to focus on PvE. In fact, it’s hard to avoid the feeling that anything that deviates from BioWare’s vision of a story-led MMO has been focus-tested into existence. They’re making a game that’s about Y, but their testers were expecting it to have X, like every other MMO. Instead of sticking to their guns and saying, “Actually, we think you’re going to love Y if you stay with it,” what we’re getting instead is all the potential of Y interrupted by the inevitability of X. An attempt to keep everyone happy.

That said, we saw a tiny fraction of the PvP – just one area, repeated four frustrating times. We were told of one other Warzone, The Voidstar. In this a prototype stealth ship has recently been rediscovered. Each side is trying to capture the tech, with one side attacking as the other defends, and then switching sides at the level’s midpoint.

And I certainly didn’t see it in its best light. In my time playing this section I was thinking, “I’d really like to get back on with playing the game now please,” which remains my positive message. I really wanted to carry on playing the game. Just not this PvP diversion that felt like it belonged somewhere else, in a game that wasn’t about delivering smart story and witty content.


  1. DJ Phantoon says:



    • gorgol says:


      I think if you’re looking for good PvP this game probably isn’t for you. However if you’re looking for an MMORPG with a relatively very enjoyable story that you can play with friends set in the SW universe, this will probably rock your boat.

      I’m a bit torn because while I loved KOTOR I also love PvP… :/ Shame they couldn’t do both well. Also their recent history with DA and ME doesn’t inspire any confidence for me.

      I think I might wait for the free trial to try or it, or even ’till it goes free to play, which I think it will.

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  2. Will Tomas says:

    Yay! Go Bioware!

    Aren’t they just swell today?

    • KingMudkip says:

      What, with consigning ME3 to the realm of the Valve/Blizzard Time Zone and all? Pfft.

    • alice says:

      If I recall correctly, Mass Effect 2 came out in January of 2010 and it did okay.

  3. Cinek says:

    With every next review of this game I read – I’m more and more assured that it’d be total crap if not the Star Wars theme. And even than – it doesn’t look to be worth paying a subscription greather than 5 euro per month.

    • Zogtee says:

      Imagine if you removed the Star Wars skin from this MMO. Would anyone care much about it then?

    • Jake says:

      I personally would be more interested if it wasn’t Star Wars.

    • Chris D says:

      MMO’s are like kittens. None of them survive for long if you remove their skin.

      (No animals were harmed in the making of this comment.)

    • Rii says:

      I would be more interested if it wasn’t KOTOR-wars.

    • RP says:

      I would be sooo much more interested if they’d gone with their own world.

      I want to be the very model of a scientist Salarian too. :(

  4. Nighthood says:

    The most expensive flop since APB.

    • PearlChoco says:

      I don’t understand why everybody sees this except the developers (just as with APB).

    • Howl says:

      Or Age of Conan, Warhammer Online, Star Trek Online, Champions Online… There has been a great deal of suck in the last few years.

    • RaytraceRat says:

      Warhammer was nice for a while. I think it was the only MMORPG that got interesting PvP – because of tanks being able to stop people with … themselves :)

  5. Tei says:

    So your character got humiliated in combat. This will create rage, and with rage you get strength, and with strength the sith win over his enemies. You are fully a sith now.

  6. Cooper says:

    The more I read about this, the more it seems BioWare should have stuck to what they know best: Single Player, offline experiences.

    If they don’t like how much it costs to produce their games compared to retail prices (and, I guess, piracy), then being imaginative about new avenues for income generation would have been so much more welcome than attempting to fork their single player expertise into an MMO environment.

  7. clownst0pper says:

    Are you actually a PVP fan in other MMOG’s though, John?…

  8. jealouspirate says:

    I thought the Imperial Agent and the Smuggler (other cover class) had the ability to deploy their own “holographic”: cover wherever they wanted? It’s even in the second screenshot of this article.

    Is that no longer the case? Just wondering, because I’ve suspected that the cover classes will suck in PvP and apparently my fears are confirmed.

    • John Walker says:

      You can, yes, but it’s meaningless in PvP because everyone just needs to run behind you.

    • Hoaxfish says:

      The whole cover system really seems badly thought out. A bit like those common “taunt” and “invisibility” skills you get with MMO, suited to PvE, but a waste of time in PvP…

      I think it’s a common problem when the game is designed for PvE, and then adds PvP.

      The other approach (e.g. Guild Wars) of designing for PvP, then building a PvE world around that (e.g. a balanced mix of “classes” in monster groups), seems better in the long run because it’s no longer two different coins, but the different sides of the same coin.

      Of course, inevitably, the “PvE, then PvP” approach starts getting caught up in “but wait, we better balance the skills for PvP” and the whole thing becomes a complete mess.

    • jealouspirate says:

      Thanks for the response John.

      It’s a shame, though. I really want to play a Smuggler but I usually a bit of PvP as well, and my class of choice having a major PvP disadvantage is a pretty big turnoff.

    • Nick says:

      I like the way the taunt skills worked in Warhammer Online, they caused you to do extra damage to someone until they hit you, basically making them turn attention to you or suffer. That and protecting a target (oh and the ability to body block), which basically made tanks work in a PvP environment.

    • Hunam says:

      Warhammer Online’s PVP was amazing. Really the best thing about the game, except when it broke… like all the time.

    • DiamondDog says:

      I had a lot of fun in Warhammer Online’s PvP. More with the small maps than the open Real vs Realm stuff, though. The big fights tended to turn into stop-motion when it all kicked off.

    • Glycerine says:

      The WAR Scenario PvP was really excellent, the ideas were perfect….but it did break a helluva lot! WAR’s scenarios/ideas with WoW’s polish could be beautiful.

      It sounds like this needs a lot more cover, and some decent ways to keep other players at arm’s length (maybe they have that already, i’ve not seen the skills). I like the idea of cover working well in PvP, but i guess it’d be really difficult to get right…maybe it’d be easier swapped for some static bonuses (increased damage done/reduced damage taken at range), but it’d be a shame to have something unique taken away.

    • Torgen says:

      Just change the cover skill to give 360 degree coverage? That also reduces server load by negating having to runs checks during combat for every character to see if they’re “behind the cover coverage” for every smuggler/agent on the map.

  9. smi1ey says:

    I’ve never cared much for PvP, so as long as the PvE is as good as it looks, I’m down. Granted, my experience with PvP in DCUO has been really good so far, but mainly because of the open world aspect of flying through a city and randomly encountering a hero to defeat (i’m a villain). I’m not a big fan of instance-based PvP.

  10. Dominic White says:

    At the risk of sounding like a broken record…

    Meanwhile: Guild Wars 2 announces that it’ll have a whole seperate persistent PvP universe where populations from rival servers compete to capture territories and resources, and you can level all the way from complete beginner to top-tier character without ever touching PvE.

    link to gw2.variance.hu

    It sounds rather brill.

    • jealouspirate says:

      “If the enemy is held up in a fully upgraded fortress and you are not the type of player that enjoys large scale combat, you can simply cut off their supply routes, and deprive the defenders of resources they need in order to maintain their defense. If you are planning on just working together as a small guild, you can easily take towers that cut reinforcements, and supplies off.”

      Supply routes that provide resources to build defenses?

      Really, everything I hear about Guild Wars 2 looks amazing. I don’t think I have a single complaint. It’s like Arenanet decided to make a game special for me.

    • TillEulenspiegel says:

      Supply routes that provide resources to build defenses?

      GW2 is going to be about a zillion times better than I ever expected when they first announced it with little information other than “it’s Guild Wars…Two!”. They’re stealing so many of my ideas I’ve wanted to see in an MMORPG.

      How the fuck is it not a subscription game?

    • Dominic White says:

      Weirdly enough, the GW2 World vs World PvP stuff sounds a lot like Planetside.

      Which is ironically exactly what a Star Wars PvP game should model itself after. But they didn’t, clearly.

    • Lobotomist says:

      GW2 will wipe floor with SWTOR. It will be a gag.

      Bioware died the day they were bought by EA

    • JackShandy says:

      For all this bashing, The old republic looks like it will be a good MMO.

      I’m not interested in buying a good MMO. But Guild Wars 2 looks fucking incredible.

  11. Bilbo says:

    Other people probably were having fun. You admitted it yourself. You’ve gone ahead and used your experience of a game in beta in a role that the designers admitted there and then wasn’t really well suited to that arena to declare the game’s PVP bad.

    Just so you know John, that’s what just happened

    • Lasre says:

      I doubt he or anyone else is confused as to why he didn’t enjoy it.

    • TeraTelnet says:

      Oh well, I’m sure the devs will balance the PvP so that this cannot possibly happen come the full release date. Right? Right?

    • Pointless Puppies says:

      Sounds like you just didn’t hear what you wanted to hear.

      It’s not John’s responsibility to say “everything from my experience was bad, but I SAW other people kind of have fun so it’s all fine and dandy”. BioWare had the advantage in that they could preview their own game to these people in an extremely closed environment. The fact that despite this control they still managed to give some of their previewees a horrid experience does not reflect well on BioWare or the game no matter which way you want to cut it.

    • Jumwa says:

      I think John laid it all out pretty well both what his experiences were and what the reasons or excuses might be. He fessed up to not only not being a PvP fan, as such, but that one if his biggest problems was supposed to be addressed. Trying not to be glib, but what more can he say? “I had no fun with the PvP, it seemed broken and ill-fitted, but they said they’ll fix it so I think it’s awesome! Huge endorsement.”

    • Bilbo says:

      Just seems to me that such a limited grievance isn’t a good basis to start writing people off… How many MMOs are anything approaching balanced on release? It’s somewhere between zero and none.

      As for “not hearing what I wanted to hear”, I really couldn’t give a shit whether or not john liked the game – I wasn’t desperately hoping he would – I’m just a bit confused by the idea that one of the classes being a bit boring and tough in the PvP equals shit PvP all round.

      Don’t get me wrong – the game’s not shaping up too well at all, from what I’ve seen – but this just seems like a cheap shot with not a lot under its trunk

    • Jumwa says:

      Well this was a “Hands On”, not a review. John was given limited access to the game, and no ability to try any other classes in PvP apparently. He can only report on what he was allowed to experience.

    • John Walker says:

      Um, so all the bits where I do exactly what you say I should have done didn’t count then?

    • DiamondDog says:

      “Sounds like you just didn’t hear what you wanted to hear.”

      Ha. Indeed.

      I’m pretty sure most people here would be happy if RPS just put up a post about SWTOR simply stating “It’s shit” and that would be fine. This game (rightly or wrongly) has been pre-judged and now all anyone seems to want is constant confirmation that this is so, screw the reality.

      Bit like DA2 really. Witcher 2 is the hero, please confirm for me this is so. Guild Wars 2 is the hero, please don’t inform me SWTOR has positive elements.

      Personally I am actually more excited by GW2 at this point, I just think it’s interesting how each RPS post on SWTOR is greeted with joy if it is negative about the game. At this point people are cheering for this games failure.

    • Deano2099 says:

      Yeah, it’s really mean of John, after Bioware randomly picked him by lottery to demonstrate the PvP to, for him to then write what he thought about it on a hugely popular PC blog.

      The whole point of preview events is that the developers want people to write about it. If the guy didn’t like it, what is he meant to do?

  12. Jimbo says:

    Going into PvP should just load up Battlefront. Going into space should load TIE Fighter.

    • Joof says:

      Holy crap yes.

    • Koozer says:

      No! It just loads Galactic Conquest, the BF1942 mod. A million times better than Battlefront 1 and 2.

    • TuesdayExpress says:

      That’s gold, Jimbo! Gold!

      If that happened, let me say this for the first time in my life: I would buy that game just for the PvP.

    • Eightball says:

      I would buy that game for TIE fighter.

  13. Rii says:

    Are all players on a level playing field in PVP (outside the class system, obv.) or are we going to see uber-Jedi swatting Sithlings like flies because they’ve earnt the right to have large penises or somesuch WoW-esque nonsense?

  14. karthink says:

    I get the feeling even the developers are jonesing for some KOTOR 3.

  15. ALJA says:

    Is there any meaningful loss when you die in pvp? The thing that makes pvp great in EVE is the ramifications of dieing and knowing that you just ruined someone’s day when you do actually kill them.

    • FD says:

      Since they are talking about Warzones the PvP this article is talking about is instanced objective PvP (CTF or similar) so there is unlikely to be a penalty for death.

  16. Turbobutts says:


    I’m sorry, I just had to say it.

  17. Rii says:

    Are all players on a level playing field in PVP (outside the class system, obv.) or are we going to see uber-Jedi swatting Sithlings like flies because they’ve invested more time playing the game or somesuch WoW-esque nonsense?

  18. adammtlx says:

    The idea of a class dependent on special pieces of the environment is just a horrible design decision. Either remove that dependency altogether OR make ANYTHING that sticks up into “cover” and/or give the class the ability to deploy its own cover (effective cover, not one-sided, I-can-still-run-behind-you cover).

  19. Spoon says:


  20. cjlr says:


    We don’t need no steenking badges.

  21. PaulMorel says:

    This doesn’t sound good.

    PvP and community are the two things that keep me playing an MMO, so this is disturbing news, to say the least.

    Where is Blizzard’s new MMO? It can’t be that far off? 2012 at the latest?

    • Rii says:

      Q4 2013 by the leaked product slate, still 2.5yrs away. And of course it’ll probably be delayed.

  22. Davee says:

    Meh. I still feel this is “just another theme park MMO”. It’s set in the Star Wars universe – which is a big plus on my side – but not nearly enough.

    Will not buy unless the reviews tell me it’s exactly what I want it to be and good at it. :p

  23. Jake says:

    The scenery in that second screenshot looks rather ugly.

  24. wiper says:

    John, you’re declaring your /dis/interests? Was the following paragraph really meant to be showing off how unbiased you were (in which case I clearly need to re-read it), or did you mean uninterest?
    (Also, I imagine you meant an orbital cannon base, rather than an orbital base dealing with issues of canon)
    And now I feel like a massive dick for commenting in here when I have nothing to add to the discussion bar picking up spelling errors. Um. So, that TOR, eh? Sounds a bit like a Bioware RPG shoved into an MMO framework, for better or worse! (Insightful, I know)

    • Dominic White says:

      “(Also, I imagine you meant an orbital cannon base, rather than an orbital base dealing with issues of canon)”

      This is Star Wars we’re talking about. It could go either way.

    • bascule42 says:

      “This is Star Wars we’re talking about. It could go either way.”
      Quite. This is, I believe, how we ended up with Jar Jar Binks – Lucas’s Orbital Canon base misfiring.

  25. DeepSleeper says:

    There’s just not a lot I can say about this that sounds even remotely positive. That’s because there’s not much -here- that sounds positive.
    I expect this game to be an amusing waste of time, but damn, they could at least try to make it good in some way.

  26. Rii says:

    Woah, I knew TOR was hewing close to WoW, but not this close:

    link to img836.imageshack.us

    • gorgol says:

      LOL! Alterac Valley FT…

    • Rii says:

      Quick, someone with the game installed take a screenshot of the equivalent location in WoW for comparison.

      Crank the settings and I’d be willing to bet the WoW shot comes out on top in the eyecandy department even.

    • DiamondDog says:

      I’m sure GW2 has snow in it somewhere. It’s quite a common substance.

    • Rii says:

      Clearly you know not of what I speak.

    • DiamondDog says:

      I do, it’s just idiotic.

    • gorgol says:

      Jeez, lighten up, it’s a joke.

    • DiamondDog says:

      If it was just light hearted then yes sorry, I apologise. Being a bit grumpy.

      It’s just the way this story is going I wouldn’t put it past someone to make that comparison in complete seriousness.

    • gorgol says:

      Np. It’s funny to me, cos that shot looks pretty much exactly like the horde side of Captain Belinda’s bunker in WoW’s AV, complete with the snowy slopes around it and the Jedi *cough*alliance*cough* charging into a battle on the field of strife. But in all probability its just that particular angle that is amazingly coincident :P

      On a serious note though, he does make a good point about the graphics looking a lot worse than WoW’s :S Quite shocking really.

    • Rii says:

      Yes, it was intended as a light-hearted observation. Having spent far too much time with WoW over the years, the shot gave me a sense of deja vu because, as gorgol points out, it is a near 1:1 match for the view from a well-travelled point in one of WoW’s PVP Battlegrounds. I am not seriously suggesting that BioWare copied Blizzard here, it is merely an amusing coincidence that plays into the narrative of TOR playing ‘follow the leader’.

    • Dances to Podcasts says:

      Star Wars always was Science Fantasy.

  27. Carra says:

    WoW caters everyone. A casual can level, hardcore players can raid and frustrated teens can PvP. So of course the EA bosses will want to have PvP.

    Personally I never really got into the PVP part of WoW. But when I played a few battlegrounds it was always fun.

  28. Sheve says:

    Two things:
    1. If you don’t like PvP…why were you picked to write this review? Hell, I’d be worried if you DID like the PvP, because that would mean it wouldn’t be any sort of PvP I’M familiar with.
    2. You ARE aware that for a level 8 Agent, you can create your own cover, right?

    • Rii says:

      From what I’ve read from more specialist sources, I don’t think unfamiliarity for existing MMO gamers is going to be an issue here…

    • Iucounu says:

      1. Still doesn’t sound much fun being continually killed by people because the level design is bad, even if you do like PvP

      2. As John said:

      You can, yes, but it’s meaningless in PvP because everyone just needs to run behind you.

  29. Friend says:

    And Guild Wars 2 continues to look even better, and SW:TOR continues to look even worse.

  30. ffordesoon says:

    I don’t really play PvP anyway, and don’t generally care about it. Ergo, this doesn’t affect me at all.

    That the PvE is so strong is what matters to me. I’ll be roleplaying a loner anyway, so, you know, not an issue.

    That being said, that it’s pretty much standard fare is fine with me. But then again, I don’t usually PvP.

  31. sendmark says:

    Doesn’t surprise me that the pvp seems to be just an attempt to take WoW’s pvp and make it slightly better.

    GW2 you are my only hope…

  32. Confusatron says:

    Gotta say this doesn’t look promising. After the complete abomination that is DA2, I don’t even know if I should trust them anymore.
    If they’re previewing it it should be preview-able, you know?

    I am somewhat excited about this game, but I have higher hopes for The Secret World and GW2.

    • Lilliput King says:

      It is previewable, I think. I thought I remembered someone talking about playing it at PAX.

  33. adamiani says:

    For pity’s sake, make a preview of GW2, so EVERY MMO thread isn’t spammed with comparisons to what it is imagined to be.

    It’s like “Your game is nothing to starcraft-2! Nothing!” only without the irony.

    • Falx22 says:


    • Althilor says:

      I kind of agree. The whole TOR/GW2 thing is becoming a bit of a “my dick is bigger than your dick” sort of thing. Without the other guy (in this case GW2) actually showing you his dick, there is no way to separate senseless bragging from facts….and one thing ArenaNet has kind of gotten renown for is being very good at talking themselves up. It remains to be seen whether they can truly back up their promises. Same goes with TOR really, i’m just not willing to be a GW2 fanboy like so many others and simply state “GW2 is going to be so much better.!” without a little more to go on.

    • Dances to Podcasts says:

      Your comment is nothing compared to my comment above.


  34. jealouspirate says:

    John, I thought you might get a kick out of the fact that this post has spawned a 25 page thread on the TOR forums about how you’re obviously a terrible player who couldn’t grasp a system that has none of the flaws you mention. It’s a good laugh.

    link to swtor.com

    • Corrupt_Tiki says:

      I Read through it a bit, but I couldn’t stomach it after 2,3 pages.

      I like how they all call it a ‘Review’ though, quite amusing, I wonder how they manage to breathe when asleep?

    • shitflap says:

      Just beautiful…
      Yesterday , 02:52 PM

      Originally Posted by Ethnine
      Have you played the game?
      That doesn’t matter in these threads, What matters is what you believe in your heart.

      Is someone reviews against what you have built up in your mind that person is a worthless fool for speaking suck things.

    • bogeymanuk says:

      just trawled through most of the 40 odd pages that thread is now and god what an awful community, so much hate and vitriol. Reminds me of the WOW forums before i stopped reading them to save my sanity

  35. Jumpinjahosafa says:

    Weird how a biased preview written by someone who already doesn’t enjoy PVP, gets way more attention than the scores of positive previews on PVP that i’ve read combined.

    Granted, you did list postives of the game, but I can’t believe how many people are just blindly following this guy’s opinion when he already stated more than once that he doesn’t enjoy pvp. And it can also be assumed that he wasn’t very good at it in the first place, and on top of that he played a class thats extremely tactical in pvp.


    • jealouspirate says:

      Considering TOR fansites like Darth Hater and Ask a Jedi echoed the similar concerns about the Sniper and Gunslinger (Republic equivalent), and Bioware even admitted the map need to be fixed because it was bad for those classes, I’d say this article has a lot more truth in it than you’d like to think.

      You also don’t need to enjoy something to recognize flaws in the design.

    • Jumpinjahosafa says:

      I agree with you, i’m more referring to the responses than the actual review. I’m sure the author makes some good points, I haven’t played the game so I can’t say if he’s right or wrong.

      But some of these responses are ridiculous. You can’t take one reviewer as cannon, thats a terrible idea.

    • Jumpinjahosafa says:

      I agree with you, i’m more referring to the responses than the actual review. I’m sure the author makes some good points, I haven’t played the game so I can’t say if he’s right or wrong.

      But some of these responses are ridiculous. You can’t take one reviewer as cannon, thats a terrible idea.

      People are also forgetting the game is still in closed beta. Lots can change, some of which has already been mentioned by the devs.

      (Such as the completely lack of cover positions for cover classes, or tweaking the health pools to adjust how fast people die.)

    • FD says:

      Just because someone isn’t the biggest PvP fan does not mean they shouldn’t have fun in PvP. Part of the reason WoW PvP works as well as it does (yes it has issues like the absurdity that is SoTA) is that you can hop into a random BG and unless you get matched against a premade you’ll probably have a pretty decent time. Even if you aren’t very good, I know from experience.

      The other reason people are latching onto his criticism is that it feeds right into one of the biggest worries about TOR, Bioware’s lack of experience at class balancing. Bioware has made some great games but every game where they haven’t aped DnD heavily has had some pretty major balance issues, KOTOR was pretty ranged unfriendly, DA had mages as way too useful, ME1 biotics were gamebreaking at higher levels and the weapon balance in both MEs was all over the map (see assault rifles). One of the most important things for making an MMO that works as an MMO is balance and Bioware has very little experience having to do any kind major PvP balancing.

    • Jumpinjahosafa says:

      I’ll take an example from the forums. If I don’t like sports games, and I decide to go play a sports game, I shouldn’t expect to enjoy said sports game. I also shouldn’texpect the company to cater to my preferences, over hardcore sports game players who will be the truly respected judges of the game.

      This is not bashing the article writer, he has every reason to state his opinion of the game, and I completely respect that, but in the same breath, I take this review with a grain of salt because he blatantly stated multiple times that he hated PVP.

      So a guy who doesn’t like pvp turns out to like pvp, does that mean its bad pvp? Not necessarily, in fact it might be rather good pvp, but who knows.

      I’ll use an example. I fucking hate yams. If I eat the best made yams in the world, I’ll still fucking hate it.

      Again, im not bashing the writing, im bashing the responses, who claim this game is going to ABSOLUTELY FAIL because someone who doesn’t like pvp doesn’t like pvp.

      I’m sorry but I can’t be the only person completely boggled by this.

    • John P says:

      Presumably the PvE and PvP were shown over the same couple of days? So John was there to cover both sides of the game, and wrote some PvE impressions a few days ago, and now the PvP ones. I would say most MMO players favour one or the other, and John was totally upfront about his preferences. Not seeing what the issue is here.

    • Jumpinjahosafa says:

      I clearly said multiple times I wasn’t bashing john’s review. If you couldn’t even figure that out from my post , then you need to take reading comp classes.

      Seriously guys. He has every right to review what he wants. I’m saying, take his actual review with a grain of salt.


    • John P says:

      Uh yeah okay then. You’ve dug yourself into a bit of a hole. Basically you’re saying: ‘He can write whatever he wants … but don’t believe a word he says! No offence or anything!’

    • Jumpinjahosafa says:

      Wait, so you believe everything you read?

      I have a really nice house by the beachside I could sell you for a great price!


      I don’t know why its such a hard concept to grasp, that if someone does’t like something, they aren’t going to like it no matter what form is given to them. The argument that “They should still have fun doing something they don’t like” is absolutely ridiculous.

      I hate eggs, but if a chef cooks me amazing eggs, should I suddenly fall in love with eggs? Thats ridiculous.

      And then if I decide to go review said eggs on their taste, and say how bad they are and how much I didn’t like the texture, but I never liked eggs in the first place. Should you, and egg lover, suddenly decide that said chef has no experience cooking eggs?

      No, you’ll probably be more inclined to eat them for yourself before you make an opinion of it. Thats ALL i’m saying. People responding to this seem to have made up their mind based on a review such as described, which is a poor choice really.

      If you can’t see where i’m going with this, (with by your responses, I don’t think you do) then again, i’ll direct you to a reading comprehension course.

  36. Cronstintein says:


  37. Rinox says:

    This never looked like a PVP-centric game to me, nor do I enjoy PVP. So this changes little in my expectations of the game (ie an RPG I can play with my friends).

  38. Vinraith says:

    The funny thing is that GW2 has become so hyped at this point that a significant portion of its audience is essentially guaranteed to be let down by it. There’s such a thing as too much positive word of mouth.

    TOR won’t have that problem, anyway.

    • DeepSleeper says:

      I keep thinking this. I say it sometimes, but nobody seems too concerned about it.

      So I figure … eh. Let people have their joy for now, and when it comes out and the crashing letdown sets in, that’s more room on the server for people who didn’t overhype in advance.

    • Nick says:

      Well, the various random plebs who have actually played the various hands on on bits seem to say it lives up to what it promises in the respects that have been demo’d at least.

    • Jumpinjahosafa says:

      It will. There are people that will be disappointed on both sides. TOR is SUPER hyped. Its not guaranteed to be good (no matter how badly I want it to be)

      It just depends on what website you’re looking at. This one seems to have a mostly GW2 following.

    • TillEulenspiegel says:

      I can’t speak for anyone else, but my expectations for GW2 are extremely modest: that it will attempt to do most of what it promised, and have things nailed down fairly well ~12 months after launch. I’m excited, but I’m excited because somebody is bothering to attempt innovation in the MMO genre, not because I expect the Jesus Christ of videogames.

      I’ll take ambitious and flaky over conservative and polished Every. Single. Time. I mean, Ultima Online was pure wonderful. And god was it a mess full of bugs and design flaws. Didn’t matter. Not to me, anyway. Because it was doing so many things nobody had ever tried before, and of course they were going to screw up a lot.

      Sure, worst case is that it will turn out like APB. This seems unlikely, though. No subscription fee + innovation + history of success = patient audience. Minus the idiots who inevitably infect everything.

    • Vinraith says:


      I want to be clear that I’m not remotely suggesting that GW2 will be a bad game, indeed I expect it will be very good. However, no game could live up to the kind of hype and expectation being heaped on it around here.

    • Corrupt_Tiki says:

      @ Vinraith, oh god, the world must be about to end in 2012, I agree with two of your posts, god help us!

    • Nick says:

      Oh, I know Vin, I just meant that the people who’ve got to play it so far weren’t let down, so it looks like it is on course only to crush the dreams of the truely pie in the sky second coming demented followers, of which there can’t be many. Hopefully.

      The only way it could let me personally down would be if they charged a sub, which they won’t, so I’m sorted!

  39. herpaderp says:

    They are letting the guy who thought there were only a handful of skills in his two days of playing to continue to write for the site?

    Just when I was starting to like rockpapershotgun….

    Don’t hire people with an English or Journalism degree. Hire some fucking gamers.

  40. DCCTV says:

    So we can look forward to the PC version some time in June 2012 then.

    Which much like the other games, I suspect will be just in time for me to ignore it because something else new and awesome is coming out at the same time.

    Goodness knows what kind of nutty DRM Ubisoft will try next after that happens

  41. Betamax says:

    Just going to leave this here: Darth Hater PVP preview. Much more in depth whilst still offering constructive criticism. I wouldn’t write off TOR’s PVP just yet, although it is evident there is still work to be done.

  42. neofit says:

    Unless they force this melee pvp crap onto us like Aion and Allods do, I don’t care.

  43. sonofsanta says:

    The Sith and Republic have found an orbital canon base, and they’re fighting for control of it. There’s three points that need to be captured to gain full control of the canons, which will fire upon the ship of the enemy.

    Now I’ve not read all the comments, so I don’t know if I’ve been beaten to this. But there literally could not have been a better game preview in which to confuse cannon/canon than for a Star Wars game, a fiction over which so much intellectual blood has been spilt.

    Leia: “Luke! Why are you kissing Han?”
    Luke: “I can’t help it, the Sith gained control of the canon! This is the story now!”

  44. utharda says:

    We have to play this on a 360 controller right? Going on a badge streak sounds makes it sound that way.

  45. drinkingjacket says:

    This is just not going to work. I think they had at least an interesting direction when it was story driven MMO, but the more I read about this title the more it screams Theme Park desperation to catch some of WoW’s market.

    I really don’t think anyone, Blizzard included could launch an MMO like WoW anymore. The consumer is far too sophisticated and impatient, with far too many other competing products, (not just MMO’s) and an ever dwindling purchasing power. There’s going to be bugs. There’s going to be problems with the servers. With population. With class balance. With Content, both quality and quantity. Blizzard, and I’m sure they’d be the 1st to admit this, literally caught lightning in a bottle with WoW. It was the advent of social media, or rather media and technology fusing out of the basements and into dorm rooms and offices. Every title since which has tried to capture even a fraction or outright challenge the WoW behemoth has been reduced to a handful of servers and a free to play model.

    I think EA is taking a huge gamble here and making a massive mistake. Bioware does on-rail RPG’s with generally good dialogue and characters, though they are all beginning to blend together nowadays, imo. Their forte is not the sandbox, nor is it the theme park, on top of that, I question the timing. Lucas has done enough damage to his own IP to make it ungamable, discounting LEGO for kids titles. The idea of a “mature” Star Wars ala KOTOR modeled after the refreshing Dark Horse comics died with Anakin the pod racer.

    Its commendable that EA/Bio stuck to their guns with Lucas and insisted on using the KOTOR setting as KOTOR is probably going to go down as Bioware’s best ever game (or BG2, take your pick.) But can the setting alon attract the numbers necessary to make this a profitable and worthwhile venture?

  46. Gvaz says:

    If pvp is going to flourish on this, there needs to be more aoe silences that last longer and every class needs a thunderclap that slows enemies movements or a shaman’s thunderstorm ability.

    This would help to break up the “ganging up on a player means death” problem of pvp