DOTA 2 Championships In Seattle, Beta Population Grows

A couple of bits of DOTA 2 news turned up. The first is that Valve have announced that The International Dota 2 Championships 2012 will be held at PAX Prime in Seattle, which takes place from August 31st to September 2nd. Valve report that the event will entail “16 of the most elite Dota teams competing in a group stage, double elimination playoff format for a grand prize of $1 million.”

The second bit is that PCG noticed the game is now moving ahead of Counter-Strike: Source, Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3, and Skyrim on Steam’s player stats. And it’s still just in beta. Huge it is going to be. Yes.


  1. mr.ioes says:

    Can’t wait for TI 2. This time they have the whole venue for themselves, not like on gamescom with terrible audio.

    Curious about who’ll cast the games. Time will tell.

    • KikiJiki says:

      If it’s not Tobi I’ll eat my hat*.

      *Disclaimer: I don’t own a hat.

      • HisMastersVoice says:

        They should get Tobi and Luminous on the same stream.

        • mr.ioes says:

          I don’t think they get along very well.
          However, having the choice between tobi+synd and lumi+nebula would be awesome. Or something like that :)

          • HisMastersVoice says:

            Would have been hilarious though. And yeah, having the option to choose your caster would be sweet.

          • miywg says:

            How much are lifetime subs? Also is the combat any good/fun?

  2. Beelzebud says:

    I find it odd that they’re holding a cash prize tournament, when the game is in beta, and not everyone has had a chance to even play the thing yet.

    Although, I’m starting to think they don’t really give a crap about new players. I noticed on the last beta sign up form, they asked about your experience playing DOTA, and they had no option for anyone who had never played the game before.

    • pakoito says:

      It happened the same with Counter Strike: Go. The thing is, this is not a beta for PR purposes like most of them, but several full spins and iterations for the system to make it feel like the WC3 one up to the point of in-engine mandatory delay of 100ms just to keep the “feel”.

      If you start playing the game from scratch, with bugs and heroes changing every other week, random matchmaking and no mentor system you may form a correct opinion of it, so you’d better wait.

      Anyway if you still want to be stomped, yelled, insulted and humilliated if you cry a bit in some places like reddit you can get one.

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    • KikiJiki says:

      They held the first International tournament before the beta was even out – the teams were given the pre beta client weeks before the tournament to practice. Hosting TI2 isn’t really anything new in that regard.

      And right now they shouldn’t give a crap about new players. Right now it’s a beta and players can and should be giving feedback and checking out things compared to Dota1. New players have no useful feedback to give on these topics, because they don’t understand a lot of the whys and wherefores of things in the game and the interface.

      • Stephen Roberts says:

        New players have no useful feedback to give on these topics, because they don’t understand a lot of the whys and wherefores of things in the game and the interface.

        I want more games designed with abject scorn towards new players because they don’t understand. Fuck them.

    • Vorphalack says:

      They don’t need to wait for release to hold a tournament, considering it is a fairly faithful sequel to DoTA, which has been around for years and has a huge international following. The game is also more than polished enough to put on competitive display. They could release it now and it would be a run away success, but Valve is Valve, and Valve release games as they pleases.

      As for new players, as you said it is still beta, and the feedback of players with experience is probably more useful at this stage as they are still adding champions. People who know how the new champions work will provide the best data for competitive balancing and bug hunting. Note that I said at this stage, as I am sure that they will open up the beta to everyone before launch. DoTA already has more features to help new players get into the game than any other MOBA on the market.

      • Armitage says:

        You are missing Beelzebud’s point. It’s not about the level of polish on the game, which I’m sure is pretty much release quality. The purpose of the tornament is to advertise the game to the competitive market. Why would you do that if the game in not available for purchase?

        I realise that the reason its still in beta is that the server infrastructure is not ready to handle the weight of everyone playing it. But I does seem like they are putting the cart before the horse.

        But, maybe Im just jealous that I dont have access.

        • Vorphalack says:

          ”The purpose of the tornament is to advertise the game to the competitive market. Why would you do that if the game in not available for purchase? ”

          They don’t need to advertise DoTA 2 to the e-sports world. It is a faithful recreation of DoTA, which has a global following numbering in the tens of millions. Yes, the following will probably grow even larger post release, but like I said it is more than big enough already to support major e-sports events with a full line up of experienced pro-gamers.

          DoTA 2 should not be treated like a new IP when considering its place in the e-sports world.

        • Kakkoii says:

          I’d like to add that the game likely isn’t ever going to be “for purchase” anyway. It’s implementing the same F2P model TF2 has, exactly. So this is just a currently closed group F2P game, hehe.

        • markcocjin says:

          You can buy it now if you really want to.

          This is a free to play game but right now, it is in closed beta which means you cannot have early access to it unless it was gifted to you by Valve or someone else.

          But it is for sale or for trade right now. It goes for somewhere around ten to twenty dollars. I’ve been sold 12 Dota 2s at one point but I turned it down worrying nobody would buy it from me later on.

          If you’re not familiar to it, I’d like to welcome you to one of Steam’s many flea markets:

          link to

          You can walk away with a Counter-Stike: GO or Dota 2 within minutes of entering the group’s chat.

    • Solanaceae says:

      Well Beelzebud when I filled out that survey I just put 0 hours for everything and got in very quickly (and ahead of a lot of other people), so they are clearly looking for newbies as well in the beta.

      • Ruffian says:

        I’m a new Dota (played a little lol) player and I filled out the survey honestly, or as close to honestly as I can remember, and got in in about a week, as well. So, yeah I’m not to sure what he’s talking about.

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  4. pakoito says:

    HoN’s comp scene is pretty much dead, so I will be making the shift to Dota2 after summer. It’s not sad but…it is what it is.

    • Ruffian says:

      Dota 2 is pretty sweet man, heres hoping you like it!

    • markcocjin says:

      Welcome to Dota 2! I know HoN’s a pretty rough community too so I’m sure you’ll fit right in with this one.

      I don’t know what you’re like as a sportsman but I go through great lengths to be a pleasant person to play with or against. I hope you’re the same way too.

      • pakoito says:

        I play itemless Glacius/Crystal Maiden. I am fucking lovely.

        I quit Dota1 because of Russians, and I am fearful of having to do it again.

        • Kakkoii says:

          It hopefully shouldn’t be a problem in Dota 2, since it now has a proper match-making system, unlike Dota. Keeping you away from playing with people in other countries most of the time, mainly due to ping..

  5. Fiwer says:

    I got into the beta last week, it’s literally an exact duplicate of Warcraft 3 DOTA with zero improvements or changes. They wasted time and money building a new engine for this game and then just mirrored the crappy UI from the Warcraft 3 mod. There is absolutely no reason to play this garbage instead of League of Legends or Heroes of Newerth, both of which have at least a few small improvements over the original DOTA.

    • pakoito says:

      The 100ms delay on input to match WC3 engine is embarrassing, but the interface has changed recently, along with several other systems. It is still not on pair with HoN but it’s getting close.

    • jon_hill987 says:

      So the matchmaking, spectating and huge host of UI improvements don’t count? Besides all LoL did was remove features to make it easier.

      • Fiwer says:

        No, those features don’t count because who gives a shit about things like that if the gameplay and interface are literally identical to an 8 year old Warcraft 3 mod? And the only feature that LoL removed as far as I know is the utterly retarded and completely counter-intuitive denying mechanic that only existed because the original game was a Warcraft 3 mod and they stupidly left the ability to attack your own teams NPCs in.

        • Vorphalack says:

          If you think denying is the only mechanical difference between LoL and DoTA, you either have never played DoTA or are just trolling for shits and giggles.

          • Fiwer says:

            I’ve played both of them quite a bit actually, but I’m not a hardcore player of either so I’m sure there are lots of inconsequential differences that I’m not aware of. But who cares about crap like that? I’m talking about real, noticeable changes.

          • Slaadfax says:

            You could write a book and hold a seminar on the differences between League of Legends and Dota/Dota 2, including advantages and disadvantages.

            While yes, the inclusion of the denial mechanic *does* form the most noticeable one, it’s not even close to the biggest, and your understanding of its existence and strategy is very limited. The fact that it’s the only thing you mention pretty much guarantees you haven’t played enough of either to make any judgments much less vomit them out as truth on the internet.

            But, I guess that’s what the internet is all about.

        • HisMastersVoice says:

          Yeah, 8 year old gameplay sucks. CS in all variations and SC2 are prime examples of that dreadful phenomena. I mean, awful games, aren’t they?

          And calling denying retarded makes you sound like one of those whiny kids that cry whenever they don’t get their last hit. You may not like it as a mechanic, but stay classy.

          • Fiwer says:

            Well CS is a great example actually, yeah. If Valve decided to make a new version of CS that was completely identical to 1.6, why would anyone bother to play it?

            And denying is retarded. Period. It’s a stupid mechanic and the fact that it still exists is a perfect statement on how terrible and resistant to change the DOTA community is. They are truly the dregs of the internet.

          • KikiJiki says:

            Denying isn’t retarded at all. It could have been removed but it hasn’t been because it’s an incredibly powerful tool for lane control that rewards the player with higher mechanical skill.

            I really don’t understand people that argue against denying. It’s like saying you can’t tackle in football.

          • HisMastersVoice says:

            So your argument amounts to hur-dur-I’m-right.

            Okay, got it.

          • Fiwer says:

            That’s a really crappy analogy because tackling is nothing like denying. How about if in Football if you tackled your own teammate it prevented the enemy from making a tackle? That’s a little more like denying.

          • Vorphalack says:

            You know, that might actually make football not suck……

          • monomer says:

            Saying that denying is retarded is probably a bit of hyperbole, but I do understand LoL’s argument for removing it, and I prefer it that way. There’s nothing wrong with the idea of being able to control your lane better and limit your opponent’s creeps if you’re good and paying attention, but LoL’s goal has always been to make the game more offensive and faster paced. They’re pretty honest about that, I appreciate it, and removing denying definitely fits that MO; not being able to deny means both sides of the lane can get CS faster and make money/exp faster, and thus progress through a match faster. I’d chock it up to personal preference more than a “good or bad” design decision, and I’m in the boat with the other LoL fans.

          • Vorphalack says:

            ”not being able to deny means both sides of the lane can get CS faster and make money/exp faster, and thus progress through a match faster.”

            In practice what you actually get with LoL is a static lane where neither side can get ahead. With denying, if one guy can stop his opponent from farming, that player will get a lead and be able to push aggressively.

          • Psychopomp says:

            “but LoL’s goal has always been to make the game more offensive and faster paced.”

            This would hold any weight at all if LoL hasn’t spent the past two years being stuck in an incredibly passive, farm oriented early-mid metal; and, if DOTA’s meta wasn’t typically way more aggressive and faster paced.

            Riot are kinda bad at achieving their goals.

          • KikiJiki says:

            Fiwer, you’ve just proven that you have no idea what denying as a mechanic is for. It’s perfectly fine to compare lane control to ball possession because they both have the outcome of the player doing the denying or making the tackle gain momentum over the opponent which can then translate into advantage. This is particularly apparent in mid lane for DotA where lane control translates to rune control which directly leads to winning the lane by forcing down the tower and/or getting ganks on sidelanes.

          • Amun says:

            You guys are a great example of why I don’t play these games.

          • Slaadfax says:

            Definitely massive agreement on the comment about LoL passivity. Poor balancing, stale meta, old characters who are broken and useless, and a prime focus on monetization before anything else made me stop playing that game.

            Also I got into the Dota 2 beta, which very quickly established itself as having more features and polish than LoL had in more than 2 years of release.

        • Brun says:

          DotA amassed a huge following even as a WC3 mod – they aren’t going to change up a bunch of things just because “it’s a new game 8 years later.” They won’t change anything unless they really need to, and DotA’s popularity is proof enough that the original formula works well.

          I don’t get why you’re demanding change for the sake of change.

        • jon_hill987 says:

          If it ain’t broke…

          • Ruffian says:

            exactly. And the guy who complained about denying is a dummy. It’s a perfectly logical feature that may have stemmed from the fact that the original was a wc3 mod, but it most definitely (while it may seem counter intuitive to you) adds something to the game, and IMO removing it removes a pretty big strategic layer from the game.

        • Zihua says:

          @”counter-intuitive denying mechanic that only existed because the original game was a Warcraft 3 mod and they stupidly left the ability to attack your own teams NPCs in.”

          You don’t know anything. Many of the most interesting mechanics of competitive gaming have been accidents. Quake’s strafe jumping, Brood War’s muta micro and DotA’s denying: all happy accidents.

    • KikiJiki says:

      There is absolutely no reason to play this garbage instead of League of Legends or Heroes of Newerth, both of which have at least a few small improvements over the original DOTA

      League – never played, got my own opinions but they’re uninformed.

      HoN – HoN went from being the best game of this type on the market IMO to a pile of steaming dumpstertrash in the space of 6 months after 2.0 was launched. That the latest thing S2 is shouting about is a middle lane only mode speaks volumes for the state of the game, but if that’s not enough for you you can just look at the godawful way early access heroes were implemented and the bullshit pricing on new hero skins which are mostly awful anyway.

    • mr.ioes says:

      You aren’t doing that game any justice.

    • Pathetic Phallacy says:

      Wow. I have not seen a raging nonsensical fanboy post on RPS in some time. Neat.

      This just in: denying is retarded because an angry fanboy says its retarded! More at 11!

    • Sroek says:

      LoL and HoN are not improvements over Dota, they are cheap knockoffs. Dota 2 is not an “exact copy” of Dota 1, it is an evolutionary progression.

      • subedii says:

        Pretty much agree on the evolution thing, although I feel things like LoL are just going in a different direction and targeting a different demographic. Going “Hurr Durr Dota 2 is 8 year old game” pretty much misses the point. Dota is not an 8 year old game so much as a game that has had 8 years of continuing development and iteration in order to bring about and refine its gameplay model as it exists today. The Dota Warcraft 3 mod you can play today is an extremely different animal to the one that first launched.

        And Dota 2 is going to continue refining that.

        A lot of these arguments just read as wanting Valve to make a completely different game out of Dota 2, those arguments don’t make much sense to me and I’m not even in the freaking beta. So a few things:

        – Yes the beta is limited, instead of being a “publicity / demo” beta that a lot of other devs do because they just want to show off the game. Because they are tailoring this title to the competitive sphere and that’s what this beta is targeted towards.

        – Likewise with the improvements to the interface. Those are massive, very important and probably some of the best additions to any competitive / e-sports title I’ve seen.

        – All the above said, Dota 2’s fundamental objective is NOT to become a wholly different game. There are other games for that. Like I said before, the gameplay model currently in use by Dota (and that is evidently still extremely popular) is one that has taken a good part of a decade to get to this point. Chucking that all out the window for “4 button hot key combat” is dumb.

        – Dota is inevitably going to have a learning curve to it. But that won’t be made better by simplifying the game unnecessarily when it’s the details that add depth to it beyond something like LoL (which let’s face it, just isn’t as interesting to watch). Which is why it’s so important to instead focus on a robust community system, with coaching matchups and training, and an ability to weed out undesirables from your own matchups. Will that be successful? Who knows, we’re not at that stage yet. I’m hoping they can pull it off.

  6. smokingkipper says:

    << obligatoryBeta key request from me :(

    • mr.ioes says:

      You can get 10 keys from IceFrog if you find a working repo for the chat bug. Oh wait, I think I forgot something here…

      • PodX140 says:

        That cursed bug. The first time it happened to me, somehow my enter key stopped registering, completely. As in, even chrome stopped recognizing it. Only serious bug I’ve ever encountered in DOTA 2, the rest… actually, there haven’t BEEN any others! apart from this pesky chat bug that he’s reffering to.

        Tip: Go into the lobby global chat and click the chat bar, then go back into game. No DC necessary, just main menu and click, then back into it. Solves the problem.

    • markcocjin says:

      Hey buddy, go here:

      link to

      If you have anything to trade or 10-20 dollars, I’m sure you can get one. Yes paying for a free to play game is stupid. Paying to play it right this instant is a different thing. The value you’re willing to pay for it will speak about how bad you want it now.

      There’s other places too like Steampowered forums under Steam Trading. My link is faster though because there’s a chatroom that trades hundreds of Dota 2s 24/7.

  7. Freud says:

    Scientology has a better community than these games.

    • JFS says:

      Comment of the day!

    • RakeShark says:

      Only because they’re science fiction-fantasy fans. Sci-fi fans are angry towards each other, straight fantasy fans are angry towards everyone else.

    • markcocjin says:

      Nobody gets dragged into court for arguing about Dota. I’d rather deal with a venomous community of wimpy keyboard warriors than a lawyered-up cult.

  8. The Sombrero Kid says:

    I’m a big Dota fan but even I can see “Moving ahead of CS, if you half CS’s number and only measure it when CS is in bed” isn’t really “moving ahead”.

    • JackShandy says:

      Still incredible, seeing as it’s a unreleased game whose target audience is the people who’ve played a mod for a different game.

      • lightstriker says:

        ‘eh, Not really. Anyone who knew anything about Dota would’ve expected player numbers around that, because that’s what… Dota… is getting..

    • Kakkoii says:

      Well, it varies by day, I’ve seen days where it was Dota 2 and TF2 neck-n-neck at the top average players for the day.
      link to

      Just a couple months ago, Dota was only averaging around 24k, and it has now doubled that. And it would be quite a safe bet that when the next round of beta invites go out, that number is going to jump even higher.

      • PodX140 says:

        You’ll see the weekends absolutely spike in number. Not only because of the weekend, but also Fridays are update days, so everyone tries out a few games to try out the latest hero or patch.

  9. Yachmenev says:

    It´s good that popular games like this will make Steam grow, but everything I read about DOTA makes me want to stay far away from it. I want no part of communities that takes games this seriously.

    • CJ says:

      Glad it’s not just me feeling this way.

    • Lemming says:

      You know I don’t think this game is for us (and by us I mean a large part of the gaming community), so the best thing to do is just keep your head down, play different games and wait until Valve announce something different.

      • Malk_Content says:

        What might be best for us is to have a friendly RPS group for DoTA in which we can all learn and progress together.

        • Yosharian says:

          I’ll train you guys up but I’m trying not to play the game any more until release so you’ll have to wait til then. Well, unless I cave in sometime soon and reinstall the beta. Shit is addictive, man.

        • Kakkoii says:

          Sure, I’d be willing to help out new players if such a group is created. And you’d actually be surprised how many fairly nice players there are in Dota 2, compared to most moba’s. I’ve only run into a few assholes, the rest of the players in pub matches either stay silent, or try to help you out. It’s just good to make it clear at the start of matches that you are a new player, and that any direction would be helpful.

          Steam: Kakkoii_Baka

          • PodX140 says:

            Count me in on teaching newbies too. I will warn you, I may get a bit angry from time to time, but that’s few and far between. Mostly it’s when people refuse to listen to my advice and just do what they want, thinking they somehow know better :/

            Steam: PodX140

          • markcocjin says:

            I’d like to volunteer to help train new people too. I’m quite happy just seeing new people appreciate the game as I do.

            link to

            For those who assume they’ll hate the game or already hate it before trying, please know that you can play with friends on one team and bots on the other. If you do this, just 5 people, you will never ever experience the hostility of the community.

            If there’s just you and only 1 friend, you can even play opposite sides. The bots are really good and constantly being updated. If you think they’re too predictable, having at least one human as the enemy gives it its unpredictability.

            If your friends turn into monsters and bite you, that’s beyond my concern.

        • Randomgerbil says:

          Head over to the RPS forums, and look inthe game clubs section folks. There’s also a steam group, which I moderate. We matchmake fairly often, and try and scrape together enough players to get a good inhouse going on weekends. All skill ranges welcome.

          • PodX140 says:

            I’m assuming you guys are exclusively on the euro servers? I’m based out of NA sadly :/

          • Randomgerbil says:

            Most of us are european, but we actualy play a lot on the US East servers for the sake of the few mexicans that join us. It’s no bother, 150 ping is still good to play on, so we’re happy to acomodate you :)

      • MonolithicTentacledAbomination says:

        Nonsense. The game is awesome and incredibly fun to play.

        I don’t get the fear of the trumped up “badness” of the community. Yeah, people will talk trash to you. Most will probably even be on your own team. Welcome to online gaming. Feel free to ignore or mute them if it bothers you that much.

        • Ruffian says:

          I agree, don’t let the few juvenile pricks out there ruin the game for you. There really are plenty of decent ppl playing the game, it’s just the raging lunatics are the only ones who care enough about losing to post angrily about it. I would also love to get an RPS group going for it. It’d be nice to have a group of people to get together for some casual games, something I’ve been looking for in the beta for a while now. If it ever happens keep me in mind guys – SteamID: “Satchmo”

    • Psychopomp says:

      Half of Valve’s goals involve nurturing a better community, and introducing effective ways to ease new players into the game.

    • Reapy says:

      I still feel like dota is wasted. I wish one of these guys remaking the game would sit down and figure out a way to keep the “100+ champions with 5 skills” model in tact without the creep/laning/tower part.

      I get it, the audience is huge for this game, but I feel like that laning aspect is obscure and hard to learn which in turn leads to lots of intrateam rage, and driving off even more potential people. Not only that, but I’m just amazed how infrequently they add new maps.

      The whole game apparently breaks and falls apart on the glass supports it is leaning on if you simply change the map around a touch.

      At least LOL tried something new with that domination mode or whatever… I would at least like to see some more experimentation, but I guess if the crowd for this game gets hung up on +/- denying, its probably going to be pretty hard to get them to try something different.

      I guess the diverse cast is something I always like in games, it makes it easy to build what you think is a unique team with themes that you like, sort of like the ‘101 stars’ in the suikoden games etc. Feels wasted on the “MOBA” game.

      • zergrush says:

        “I still feel like dota is wasted. I wish one of these guys remaking the game would sit down and figure out a way to keep the “100+ champions with 5 skills” model in tact without the creep/laning/tower part.”

        Sounds like you might want to take a look at Bloodline Champions.

      • Vorphalack says:

        The problem with removing the farming / laning part of the game is that all you are left with is 4 button hot key combat. If you want an example of how well that works, go take a look at Warhammer: Wrath of Heroes. It looks absolutely, disgracefully bad. While it might seem more entertaining to focus on more frequent combat within the limited unit powers of DoTA, in practice it really isn’t. The genre needs that extra layer of resource depth and micro management.

        I think laning could be comparable to something like positioning your army in Starcraft to deny your opponent a base. No actual action needs to occur, but that event shows strategic depth and a meta aspect to the game that the combat alone does not provide. Besides, I still haven’t seen a compelling alternative to laning in the 10+ years that DoTA has been around.

      • rockman29 says:

        No offense, but that makes zero sense. As someone has already said, all you will be left with is a few hotkeys and your mouse click. That is hardly going to make the game interesting…

      • markcocjin says:

        If you want Dota without the creep/laning/tower, you’re better off playing a different game.

        If you think that’s tough enough, you’re gonna cry when you realize what you have to do to play as Chen, Broodmother or Lone Druid.

        • PodX140 says:

          Add in enchantress to that group. But aye, those 4 heroes make me cry with the amount of micro required. Lone druid may as well be TWO heroes in one, with 2 simultaneous inventories to manage and alot of positioning.

  10. man-eater chimp says:

    I quite like it (I’ve been in the beta for a bit) but I still far prefer League of Legends. Can’t quite put my finger on it, maybe I don’t want to say goodbye to the sheer number of hours I’ve put into LoL…

    • Yuri says:

      Played both Dota2 and LoL with friends extensively.

      The two things that made us ignore Dota2 are:
      -the camera (way too zoomed in Dota2)
      -the input lag (sorry, nostalgia or not, it’s just bad)

      The creep deny mechanic, while something that displays skill, is just working in counter to any kind of fun in laning.
      Want to get into Dota2? Be prepared to spend hours and hours of people cursing you out because you’re a new player.
      However, since Valve is actively trying to find an approach to counter all these raging kids and reward players for helping each other, the future of Dota2 looks bright in a sense that it may eventually have a friendlier player base.

      Some of my friends switched from HoN to LoL exactly because the HoN player base has turned into something utterly vile.

      • pakoito says:

        The thing is, every time someone makes a statement like the one you just did they prove themselves they do not understand the needed complexity those layers add to the game, compared to LoL. Because they were “anti-fun” (?), because whatever excuse Riot uses. Thing is, LoL is not the “condensed dota” they make it to be, it’s just a friendlier probably more fun version, but never the most competitive. Like playing basketball with those 1,80m hoops instead of the prof ones.

        • Yuri says:

          You know, you’re right. Almost.

          The thing is, the current player base in Dota2 is so elitist that i find myself without any motivation to play the actual game.
          After 300 Dota2 matches, i can safely say that i enjoyed it less than the “simplistic” LoL.

          Games should be ALL about fun. In that way, you are definitely right.

          While there is a meta-trend in high-ranking LoL matches, for the most part you can just put together a team as you wish, have fun and also have a chance at winning.
          You know, get together with your buddies on Skype and mess around for a match or two without having to take it all as some super competitive game.

    • Asuron says:

      Oh god why do LoL players think they understand the mechanics of this game and feel the need to comment on them, especially when its clear from their comments they don’t.

      Look denying exists for two reasons:
      1- Enables superior lane control for the better player, allowing them to get as much farm a s possible giving them a significant advantage over the opposition.
      2- It forces the opposition to respond to this problem, because if left unchecked the consequences will be disastrous.

      What this does is allow other lanes to farm well or open holes in the teams defense, allow ganks or towers destruction to happen. It leads to a very back and forth fight and I suggest you take a look at for some VODs of insane matches where you literally can’t tell who will win until the very last minute

      Now as for the camera stuff, this is just a holdover from Warcraft and is necessary because if you take it away too much of the map is given away, allowing players to avoid ganks much easier.

      Now compare this to LoL competitive matches, which are stagnant and boring farm fests for 30-40 minutes, which then culminates into one teamfight which then results in one massive push to the base depending on who won that fight.
      No excitement until that one teamfight and it makes it the most boring thing in the world to play, let alone watch.
      This is because of the poor design decisions Riot made like removing the deny mechanic, creating less paths through the jungle, giving players access to a free Blink which can be used at any time which is encouraging players not to bother ganking, especially because there is no gold loss and the gold gain isnt worth the time.

      Combine this with heroes coming out every three weeks who are pretty cookie cutter in design and you’ve got yourself a stagnant metagame that isn’t fun for anyone involved. The only reason why there is a competitive scene at all is because Riot has to literally put millions of dollars down to get anyone to bother.
      Dota and HoN created their own competitive scene, because the gameplay offered encouraged it. Not because some company threw millions of dollars down

  11. Strutter says:

    I’ve had this beta since christmas 2011 and yet to play an online match all because of the terrible playerbase and the steep learning curve.

    • KikiJiki says:

      Play bot games. The bots are pretty ridiculous right now since they ‘know’ everything like where you’ve blinked etc.

      Then after a few bot games play some beginner level matchmaking. Be amazed at how people can be so bad after your previous games against AIs. If you’ve gotten some basic mechanics and knowledge of a couple of heroes it will go a lot better for you than going in cold.

      • jon_hill987 says:

        The bots on easy or easiest are ok. tactics suck but it will allow you to practice. Put them on normal and you can’t outlane them unless you have got the whole LH/D thing down, I can keep up with them on normal with a Jungling hero though. Also, read guides, lots of guides.

        • PodX140 says:

          Guides really help, but if you want to get LH’ing down pat, there’s no better way then bots on “unfair” difficulty. I consider myself pretty damn good at it, but an unfair sniper (Sniper is a hero for all you non-dota players :P) results in me getting 1 in 20. He just removes you from the game entirely.

          • Ruffian says:

            Doesn’t he? playing him in his bot form, almost makes me fear going against player snipers, until I do. lol. And realize no player controlled sniper can get anywhere near the cs the comp controlled one does.

    • Ruffian says:

      Just play and ingore the Bitches! I was in the same boat, but I promise once you get a couple games under your belt you see less and less whiney turds.

  12. zeroskill says:

    Ok look RPS, pretty much nobody that is actively playing, or is part of the community surrounding Valve games in one way or the other, or Dota for that mather, still really reads RPS. People just moved on. Maybe wanna just go back to report on games that your readerbase is actually interested in. No offense. Not saying that people that actually actively play Dota 2 would find it a little bit offensive that all RPS has to offer about the second biggest game on Steam is 4 lines…Maybe it’s just better to not write anything at all. Just my two cents.

    • JackShandy says:

      Saying things you obviously don’t know like empirical facts just makes you sound pompous.

      (Or maybe you have actually cross-checked the list of RPS reading and Dota-playing IP’s and found 0 matches)

    • zergrush says:

      Idk, as someone who mainly plays e-sporty competitive games that have little to no space on RPS I can’t really say I’m offended for the lack of niche coverage. There’s four or five guys writing, I’d rather have them talking about stuff I don’t follow than “GAME HAS PLAYERS TEAM WINS TOURNAMENT GETS MONEY.”

      • Vorphalack says:

        What has DoTA 2 done recently that is worthy of the RPS front page? Last few months of updates can be summed up as…..

        ”Hey guys, we fixed some bugs, added some new champions and made the bot UI less retarded when defending towers!”

        When there is something newsworthy i’m sure RPS will report it : |

    • Lemming says:

      This has got to be an atypical player for one of these games, surely? ‘Zeroskill’ indeed.

    • Psychopomp says:

      You might wanna pull that stick out of your bum :I

    • Eskatos says:

      Yeah I’m going to go ahead and call your bullshit. I’m in the Dota 2 beta and loving it and am also a huge RPS fan. The more Dota 2 coverage the better as far as I’m concerned.

      • PodX140 says:

        This. 1000x this.

        I play dota 2 pretty much exclusively now, and yet I still follow RPS daily.

        I don’t see how they’re mutually exclusive?

      • Ruffian says:

        Hit me up sometime guys if you ever need someone to que with –

  13. DrScuttles says:

    Got the beta on my birthday (which was nice) and have put 22 hours into it so far. With no prior experience the main menu was an intimidating and incomprehensible mass of numbers, icons and a constant steam of Russian chattering. After a few hours of working things out and some independent googling, the game started to become quite fun.
    I’m still really crap though. Can’t wait for the tutorials or coaching to be added. And matchmaking for players of comparable skill.

    My major gripe is that I can’t easily get a cup of tea mid-game.

    • zergrush says:

      But that’s precisely why the respawn timer gets progressively higher.

      Maybe not enough for making tea, but the minute and a half till respawn is the perfect grab-a-beer-time.

      • DrScuttles says:

        Beer, Dota 2 and myself make for a rather piss-poor combination it must be said. Any 2 of those elements combined get along like daisies on a meadow but as soon as the third is introduced, things become a snowball of doom.

        • zergrush says:

          A little booze usually puts me in a good mood, I tend to laugh at everyone’s mistakes and make fun of the always present serious raging dudes, while sober DotA is a bit too sad and angry for me.

        • cyb.tachyon says:

          I love playing drunk. I’ve played my best games drunk. I’d highly recommend going with the mindset that the game’s going to be funny, and bring some good friends along. And then, magically, a bunch of trolling and 9 assassinations in you’re laughing your posterior off because you just got the silliest-death-defying kill imaginable.

          Even if my team doesn’t win, we’ve still had a blast and managed to troll the other team all to hell. Seems odd, yes, but it’s worked every time for me!

    • Vorphalack says:

      Play Axe, level Counter Helix, get Vanguard, brew while attack way pointing through the jungle.

  14. Shandrakor says:

    If anyone’s got an extra beta key, I’d sure appreciate it. Shandrak0r (that’s a zero before the r) on steam. Ta!

  15. MonolithicTentacledAbomination says:

    It’s understandable, being that Dota is a very dense game in a niche genre, but it’s plain to see that many people commenting on the game understand very little about it.

    If you are reading this article and these comments having never played, take everything with a heaping spoonful of salt, and give the game a try.

    Understand first off that Dota is in every way a zero-sum game. Whatever advantages or resources you gain are denied to the opposition, and vice versa. It’s a game full of positive/negative feedback loops, and snowballing scenarios that you want to try to keep working in your favor.

    For the newbie, this means above all, try not to get killed. It’s counter-intuitive to the way most games work, but in Dota you want to emphasize keeping yourself alive and out of trouble over trying to kill the opponent. Let more experienced players take the risks associated with that; they will be better able to assess said risks.

    Stay cautious, read a bit about how the game works and what role you want to try to fill on your team, choose a character you like and learn them back to front, and keep your head up when you’ve lost 10 games in a row and feel completely worthless, because when that one game comes along where you are the lynchpin for your team’s victory, it’s all worth it.

    Come on in, the water’s fine.

    • pakoito says:

      I usually play hardcore support (even itemless sometimes) and whenever I am in lane with someone not experienced (a.k.a. Agi-only player) my chatlog is the same:

      Agi hero: “GOOGOGO”
      Me: “Don’t, their mid is gone and jungle has been miss for 5 minutes”
      Agi: “But he’s easy to kill we use both skills gogogogogogogogo”
      Me: “Don’t”
      *embarrasingly dies*

      First skill needed in dota: basic counting. How many dots are there in the minimap? if number has been less than 5 for more than 10 seconds, play safe. “But Paco…just 10 seconds?” 4 seconds to teleport, 6 to walk from tower to YOUR FACE. So yeah, eyes on map at all times until minute 25.

      • PodX140 says:

        There is a reason I VERY ACTIVELY thank any proper support in dota 2. They’re rare. Like, ultra rare.

        When played properly, a support can – scratch that – WILL, win you the game. If they’re able to deny all the enemy creeps, and allow the carry to get all the last hits, it becomes an unstoppable lane. Add in a couple of well timed ganks, and well… No body wants to see a morphling with a Linkens at 15 minutes in, and skadi at 23 (I’ve managed it once, and my god is it hilarious).

      • Ruffian says:

        Been there pal been there. Good to see another person who enjoys playing support as much as I do though. Witch Doctor’s been very good to me.

    • PodX140 says:

      Exactly this, I dumped myself into the beta during the previous christmas (lucky achievement :P), and with ZERO experience of the genre. As in, I had no clue what last hitting was, building items, anything. If you’re in my shoes now, DON’T PANIC!

      Step 1. Watch a video just outlining the basics. last hitting, how items work (Such as items that build into better items ect.), that you lose gold when you die, just the most basic stuff.

      Step 2. Play a bunch of botmatches, but not too many. I’d say 10 hours is pushing it, at that point you start to play everything like they were bots, and it doesn’t work. But, they work great for last hitting practise, and even item building. Don’t stress too badly that your team sucks, while the enemy bots work as a co-ordinated superpower. It’s not you, it’s your stupid team (which I still haven’t figured out why it happens)

      Step 3. Take a deep breath

      Step 4. Dive into your first match. Concentrate on staying alive, and not trying for any kills. You WILL get yelled at a bit, but don’t worry, people are dicks in any community. Just try your best to ignore it, BUT listen to any helpful advice from ANYONE, even if it is that guy screaming at you. Chances are, it’s useful advice, even if they could be more polite about it.

      Step 5. Repeat steps 3-4.

      And that’s all there is to it! I’ve sunk in about 370 hours now into dota 2, and I consider myself on the higher curve in the medium skill bracket, and it really is great fun. Sure, you run across dicks and assholes, but you learn very fast that the report system works very well, so just report people and move on. And don’t forget to commend those that help you out, are forgiving, or are just friendly people! (But don’t commend the people in global chat spamming about them. -_- )

      Have fun!

      • Ruffian says:

        I’d say that’s perfect newbie DOTA player advice right there /

      • markcocjin says:

        Thank you so much for putting in the effort of appreciating and playing well in the game. We need more people like you.

  16. markcocjin says:

    Here’s the thing. Since LoL players often gravitate to Dota 2 articles as much as Dota 2 players pop up in LoL articles, let me tell everyone the most important differences of the two games.

    And this is the core difference that cannot be patched out or added as a feature like in any software.

    Riot sells you League of Legends heroes and Dota 2 will have all heroes available all the time.

    What are consequences of depriving players of the entire selection of LoL heroes?

    1. A smaller set of heroes will be able to stand up against any hero they come up against. That means that there are redundant spells and abilities across several heroes. And for those that are essentially unique, they’d be nerfed to the point that everyone with their measly ensemble of hero options can come up with something to throw against it.

    2. You have Riot creating more heroes not to throw a wrench into the metagame (there is no Captain’s Mode Metagame), but to simply add more things to sell to their customers. In effect, there is more quantity than quality. Because they know it’s very impractical to buy or impractical to grind for all the heroes.

    3. League of Legends is all about persistent game affecting stats and items. It’s a business model that relies on customers having invested so much time and money in the game that they have no choice but to play till they feel they get their money’s worth or come out feeling cheated. A Dota 2 player can start a new account and play exactly the same way from scratch. If LoL was Call of Doody, Dota 2 would be Counter-Strike.

    Also, that thing about losing gold when you die not being necessary in a game? You can interrupt an enemy’s item build plans by killing them. You essentially stole their gold right out of their pockets. That is a game changer.

    LoL’s getting free teleports back to base? That is the most noob friendly thing Riot could ever do.

    • PodX140 says:

      .Well, we aren’t sure what the system dota 2 will employ. I’ve encountered a VERY patchwork, curious system in the beta once, not sure I was supposed to, but it led me to a very tf2 type inventory.Inventory slots, steam workshop, the works. I wish I screenshotted it, but I didn’t realize that I couldn’t get back in. It’s entirely possible that heroes could be sold.

      • markcocjin says:

        It is impossible for heroes to be sold in Dota 2.

        Not only is the existing Dota playerbase used to having all heroes available, but simply not giving access to all heroes destroys the metagame.

        A metagame is another layer of the actual game. It’s in the metagame where you select the right lineup for your team to put the odds in your favor. There are hard counters to every hero. Your team and the enemy’s take turns selecting and banning heroes in Captain’s Mode. That’s the mode used for competition. It is impossible to play that mode or even practice for it if you have to buy your heroes from a store.

        If you’re curious about what lies underneath Dota 2’s files, Cyborgmatt has dissected it all for you. You will see all the current store items already in the game but just not unlocked yet. Enjoy reading his blog. :)

        link to

        • pakoito says:

          That’s how the fucked up HoN, with Early Access heroes and splitting the playerbase after F2P. I don’t mind waiting 2 weeks for new heroes, but making new players only have 15 available from a pool of 90 where there *were* very few role stackings (compare Lion/WS with Pyro/Lina, basically the same skillset yet sooo different from each other) made most games painful to play.

          Anyway most of the Dota stuff is going to be consmetic OR ELSE a big huge shitstorm would happen. Not even comparable to CS1.6 vs CS:S