The Elder Scrolls Online Wants You, Right Now-ish

Looks a bit like Robyn?

SWTOR got it wrong – oh so very wrong – but here we are once again, looking at a mega-bucks MMO that could make World of Warcraft wriggle around uncomfortably, like it’s wearing underwear a size too small. Like it or not, Skyrim is a game which crossed to The Other Side, that strange and terrifying world of people who play games but don’t follow gaming. Y’know, Normals. As such, Bethesda’s upcoming massively multiplayer monster-stabber The Elder Scrolls Online has at least a chance at a very big audience, not purely the MMO-educated. We shall see!

Today’s big news, though, is that Bethesda have opened up beta sign-ups for TESO, and they have a fancy-pants new trailer too. Guess where I’ve put that?

Basically the trailer is a group of Tamriel super-friends (presumably one from each of the game’s main factions) duffing up some baddies in a HI-OCTANE Peter Jackson movie sort of way, all meeting up then looking like they’d quite like to murder each other. There’s some pretty impressive CGI facial work in there too:

BIFF, etc.

As for beta sign-ups, well- you’ll be wanting to go here to do that. “Timing and details of the start of playtests will be provided at a later date to those who register”, and only “selected” registrants will find themselves approved. I wouldn’t mind being selected: I know TESO appears to be doing things very differently to all previous Elder Scrolls games and that’s caused some controversy among the faithful, but I’d very much like to make my own judgement from experience.

Lest ye forget, here’s what the game proper looks like:

Release date-wise, all we have is ‘2013’ still – which at least would imply beta-time mightn’t be too far off.


  1. djbriandamage says:

    “As for beta sign-ups, well- you’ll be wanting to go here to do that.”

    Are the scrolls so old they come from a time before hyperlinks?

    • kkkwwwkkk says:

      Thank you everybody,
      Please drink tea(place order from ) when you play game or watch the computer.The Tea can helpful your health.Dont trust?let’s try it.Just come on.

  2. warsarge says:

    Go where oh grand master of linkage? Surely I could look this up myself, but it would require typing. Oh no, wait, I am typing so I had better

  3. TsunamiWombat says:

    I dunno what your on about, Hyperlink is right there.

    Oh ESO. You’re going to destroy Bethesda and murder it’s parent’s, like any good bloated overbudget doomed to fail stupid hackneyed MMO.


    • dontnormally says:

      I wanted to barf after the first sentence of that second video. Good freaking grief.


      Watched the whole thing. Actually looks somewhat interesting! Probably won’t play it anyway; I’m so soured on MMOs… Would love to see an Anarchy Online 2, though.

      • Lev Astov says:

        I had exactly the same reaction to the video. I’m curious now, but still very hesitant. I mean, just look at the character designs! Hideous!

        • TsunamiWombat says:

          All I need to hear is fantasy MMO and I know this game is dead.

          • Victuz says:

            Heeey RIFT is still quite alive >_>

            But yeah to be honest most mmo’s have a few major problems that come simply from the way they’re designed.

            One is that they very often feel samey (because they are) and if you’ve played one than another one will probably be similar. The problem on the other side of that is that a lot of MMO’s that tried doing something different were to put it lightly QUITE bad (yes I’m looking at you Mortal Online >_>) so it’s a system that everyone is tired off but it seems to work the best…

            Another problem comes pretty much just from the genre. If this is going to be a hotkey based MMO than sooner or later (probably sooner) whoever is playing it will experience the same issue we all have, “it’s no longer fun, it’s now like a job”.

            I don’t know maybe some day we’ll have an mmo that will actually stay fun for a long while, and at the same time does not require a massive input of time like EVE does… (yes that is a wink towards a good mmo)

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        particlese says:

        That’s more or less what my reaction was, too: “Oh, boy, here we go.” Then, “HAH! Holy balls that was a lot of people! And it generally looks pretty interesting, to boot. I hope it’s super MMOey so I’m not tempted.”

        Three hundred hours or so of Guild Wars burnt me out on MMOs, even though I was in a fun, well-matched guild. If I had to play an MMO, I would probably have gone with Guild Wars 2 (!) or Sweator before watching these videos, but now I’m genuinely intrigued by TESO. For me, it would depend heavily on how pleasant it is to just explore the overworld. That is, without doubt, my favorite thing to do in this series, so I might actually try this one if it’s like a third-person Morrowind with extra people jumping and squatting their way across the countryside.

    • Zogtee says:

      It will be vaguely interesting to see how it does, but I really don’t think it has a chance. If BioWare and Star Wars combined couldn’t pull off an MMO, then this is unlikely to go anywhere.

      • j3w3l says:

        But this time the focus of the overbloated budget isn’t on terribly acted voice over and cutscenes, so maybe they will have a more fleshed out game. You would hope that anyway but who knows, hopefully they learnt something from tors failure

      • Hmm-Hmm. says:

        It seems so. Well, based on this video. Which shows little innovation and a lot of copycat MMO.

      • yrrnn says:

        I dunno, BioWare made some pretty bad decisions with SWTOR, and ended up with a completely different game to what fans actually wanted. If these guys are actually level-headed and listen to their fans, they could come up with something decent.

        After watching the video I’m rather more optimistic about it than I expected to be. Visually it looks very MMOish and generic fantasy-like with all of the bright colours and stylised art, and not at all like Skyrim, so that’s disappointing, but by the sounds of it they aren’t just using the basic MMO template and then slapping their own spin on it, they’re actually doing some interesting things with stuff like combat. That being said it could launch and feel just like every other fantasy MMO, despite its differences, and if that happens, they pretty much deserve what comes next.

        Honestly I’d really like to see somebody try to make an online multiplayer rpg that isn’t an MMO. Or at least doesn’t follow the normal MMO standards. I’d like to see something completely different, something more like a traditional single player action/adventure/rpg, but with thousands of other players. Also, some kind of system that means players aren’t all playing the same story, and becoming the one unique hero of the land, along with everybody else.

    • AgentBJ09 says:

      This is what happens when you get $300 million dollars in your company and need to spend it on something. Looking at you, Zenimax Media Inc.

      Call me cynical, but I’m looking forward to hearing the disappointed sighs once the hype wears off. A small form co-op would’ve made more sense than this, but I guess an MMO was a better investment.

  4. RandomEsa says:

    Signed. With my 2 hour experience in SW:TOR beta and calling it shit I think I have a pretty good shot.

    Also why doesn’t Bethesda acknowledge daggerfall and arena as an elder scrolls titles? They even give them out for free on their site.

    • Liudeius says:

      Because Daggerfall is awf-amazing… Yeah… I wasn’t about to insult Daggerfall.
      I can absolutely not get enough of perfectly flat plains with an occasional shrub. (Which is a good thing considering there are upward of 63,125 square miles of them.)

      Really, regardless of what you think of the older games, they are probably too heavily divergent from the current status of Elder Scrolls to be especially relevant.

      • goettel says:

        Except they were in many ways far ahead of anything their time-period had to offer, RPG wise – unlike Skyrim, which was just… nice. That at least qualifies as historically relevant, in my book. Well, comment, a book is hard work.

      • LostInDaJungle says:

        I still remember Arena being so mind blowing (at the time) that I just had to go out and pay $800 for a Packard Bell 17″ monitor to “truly enjoy it”.

        To each his own, but taken in context of the time when they were released, these games were light years ahead of anything else out on the market. (The Ultima Underworld games, Realms of Arkania, Might and Magic 4 and 5) Not that any of those games were bad, just that Arena was the first one that you didn’t move a party of 6 square by square and the select the “fight” icon to swing a weapon. MIND BLOWN. Arena seemed visceral as the skeleton would come walking towards you IN REAL TIME… OMFG! Spell! It was like someone took Doom and made it an RPG.

        That was also when I had my “Gaming Rig” with a top of the line Pentium 200mhz and Voodoo 1 card. I has the shizznit.

      • Rawrian says:

        Don’t forget four-dimensional city-sized underground mazes. I loved cities at night, though – maybe because of music.

    • drewski says:

      Daggerfall was my first 3D RPG experience, but I’m not sure it has much relevance to modern gamers.

  5. JD Ogre says:

    Bethesda might make their money back on box sales – but the game will otherwise fail miserably. People want multiplayer Skyrim/Oblivion/Morrowind (in ascending order of hardcore fan preferences), not a generic fantasy MMORPG in the traditional 3rd-person view.

    • Surlywombat says:

      Apparently you can zoom in the view and play first-person.

    • Giuseppe says:

      Haha, I don’t know what “people” want, but you’ve pretty much described what I would want from an Elder Scrolls MMO. In my case, a sort of multiplayer Morrowind.

    • Triplanetary says:

      Do hardcore ES fans really prefer Oblivion over Skyrim? I accept and acknowledge that Skyrim is more an action game than an RPG, but Oblivion’s RPG elements were so godawful that I actually embraced that change.

      • Brun says:

        I can’t believe people prefer Morrowind over Skyrim or Oblivion, because the RPG elements there were even worse.

        • Giuseppe says:

          What RPG elements were inferior in Morrowind to Oblivion? I’m curious, because that’s a statement I don’t often come across.

          • Brun says:

            Specializing in the skills and abilities you actually used was highly suboptimal. You were better off leveling secondary skills and skills outside your class for most of the game.

          • Giuseppe says:

            Admitting that to be true, how is that worse than Oblivion, a game where you could finish almost any quest as a level one character? The leveling mechanic was so broken and exploitable that, combined with all enemies being balanced to your level, there was no incentive to even try to advance. I think I managed to finish the main quest once when I was still only on level 2.

          • Brun says:

            how is that worse than Oblivion, a game where you could finish almost any quest as a level one character?

            Oblivion went overboard with level-scaling, which they admitted and dialed back on in Skyrim. That said, were it not for that level-scaling problem, the RPG elements in Oblivion would be quite solid and I would argue better than Morrowind’s. There are plenty of mods that overhaul the level scaling (Oscuro’s Oblivion Overhaul being the most notable), and with those mods installed Oblivion as an RPG is quite tolerable.

          • Giuseppe says:

            I don’t agree with the idea Oblivion is better than Morrowind as an RPG; and compared to Morrowind, Skyrim is barely an RPG, but it’s obvious our opinions on RPGs differ. That’s not to say that I didn’t enjoy Oblivon at all, or that I contest the fact Skyrim is a good game. I also don’t contest that Oblivion can be made quite good with mods; but this wasn’t about mods. Me, I think of Morrowind as a sort of unpolished rare gem, while Oblivion was a piece of overly polished stained glass made to resemble a gem; and Skyrim is somewhere in middle; it’s extremely polished, but at least it’s a gem. Not as rare or as valuable, but a gem nonetheless.

            I also think it’s a shame few people seem to be talking about Arena, or at least Daggerfall. You’d think Bethesda never made those games. Daggerfall itself is a great case of a “diamond in the rough” that Bethesda never quite managed to “cut”. Alas, these games are probably too “ancient” for the modern crowd.

        • phelix says:

          Not really. Gameplay wise Morrowind was a mostly stat-and-wits based RPG, while Oblivion became more action oriented, and Skyrim was (is?) basically an action game with some RPG elements thrown in. Generally, I would prefer Morrowind because investing in your stats would mean better odds in combat, while on the other hand Skyrim invites you to click your mouse buttons as fast as you can to win, with hack ‘n slash-dampening elements like fatigue (You can’t keep running, jumping or swinging a sword in Morrowind forever without getting tired! Madness!) and weapon degradation/delayed magicka regeneration outright removed in order to draw in the console kiddies.
          I could whine too about how lacklustre Skyrim’s and Oblivion’s super original medieval/norse fantasy world has become compared to Morrowind’s crazy mishmash (positively) of dozens of influences, but that’d make my comment too much of a TL;DR.

          /end rant

          • Tellus says:

            To me, Morrowind got exploration more right than the higher fidelity sequels. No game since filled me with such wonder and awe.

            Skyrim was great, but the sense of urgency and build-up was totally misplaced in a game centered on exploration and messing about. Having all important event wait for you to trigger then was at best a clumsy design choice. Like Mass Effect 3 it just didn’t play to its strengths I feel.

            Oblivion sent you to battle deadra lvl 2. I mean, seriously…?

          • Brun says:

            No game since filled me with such wonder and awe.

            See also: Final Fantasy VII effect (AKA “Baby’s first game of genre X”). I had the same feeling about Oblivion because I played it before Morrowind.

          • drewski says:

            Yeah. Having played Bethesda games back to Daggerfall, I’ve noticed people’s favourite Beth game is almost always the first one they played, because it was the one that made them go WOW.

            Playing essentially the same formula in a slightly altered dose – regardless of the quality and particular quirks of that dose – will never give you the same eye opening hit.

            That doesn’t just apply to the Elder Scrolls series, mind – people who were first exposed to Bethesda games by Fallout 3 seem to prefer that over the dragon slaying, regardless of whether or not they typically lean fantasy over post-apocalyptia.

        • socrate says:

          i really don’t see how Oblivion is better then morrowind in any way possible…morrowind as so much background and story and option it actually feel like an RPG not because of the skill they offer you its more about the atmosphere and ambiance of the entire game…Oblivion had terribly designed dungeon that all looked the same,you had to put so many mod in it that you basically had to change the entire game to make it actually worth mentioning…poor storyline,next to no dialogue and option,lore that end up extremely boring when cyrodil is supposed to be one of the most diversified place in elder scroll,recycled monster yet again with nothing new at all,boring quest(except for the dark brotherhood one which imo should have been the main story compared to the crappy one they gave us)

          Skyrim although more actiony is 100x better then oblivion in every possible way imo the sad part is skyrim is basically Oblivion with the gazillion mod the community made and not alots more work in the part of bethesda,so basically its a game that is good because of the modding community of Oblivion that made it tolerable…they said they would make the magic system like the bioshock one which would affect stuff like casting lightning in water and such…and nothing was ever made that cool or even close…but they did bring back the rewarding exploration i felt in Morrowind although not as well made or fun its still back on track again and going forward instead of going 2 step back and dumbing it down for the consoler out there….i mean are they that dumb or do they actually like hard stuff from time to time?or challenge…dark soul gave me a bit of hope but…thats just 1 game.

          To me Oblivion is the worst elderscroll out there and it actually made alots of step back and really few step forward that are worth mentioning i can only think of 1

      • Narzhul says:

        No? General consensus should be Morrowind>Skyrim>>>>>Oblivion

        • TheIronSky says:

          Agreed, although Oblivion is often better than most people give it credit for. Sure, the overworld was bland and generic, but some of the later quests became ridiculously intricate and the story delved into plenty of metaphysical stuff in the same way Morrowind did.

          But yes. Whose idea was it to allow the acrobatics skill to get so OP that by jumping around everywhere you could eventually fly over buildings?

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            particlese says:

            I definitely agree on Oblivion being bashed too much in certain company. I liked it least of the recent three, but it was definitely fun, particularly in the later quests (as you mentioned) and in a bunch of the weird side-quests.

            Speaking of overpowered things, though, I thought enemies bacame way too powerful late in the game.* I sometimes had to kill things with the console in order to keep Martin and friends from getting vaporized. On my own, however, I could run away, laughing maniacally, or, once I learned the spell for it, turn myself invisible and wait for AI ADD to kick in.

            Those last two strategies were actually quite fun, to me. And one of my favorite things to do in the game was to enter an Oblivion gate, find a spot where I could leap over the lava for quick access to the main tower’s entrance, and then run to the top and grab the orb without anyone ever noticing — or at least catching — me. I really got into the role and found it hilarious, so I love whoever left running and jumping as overpowerable as it was in Morrowind! On the flip side, I dispise what they did with those skills in Skyrim. A high-jump mod and a proper walk/run/sprint speed mod were among the first that I sought for that game. And for such an action-heavy game, I find it bizarre that you can’t jump while sprinting or stab the aquatic bunnies and the ~2 slaughterfish in the world once your eyes go underwater. I’ve read realism- and gameplay-centric arguments for these oddities, but they still baffle me.

            That said, I do love me some Skyrim, although Morrowind still comes out on top, in part because of nostalgia. I’ve really wanted to play Daggerfall, though, ever since reading Oblivion’s Warp in the West book. One of these days…

            *To be fair, I had an archer/mage character, and I didn’t exploit the levelling system or use any levelling mods or the difficulty slider that everyone forgets about.

            Edit: Well, that ended up way longer than I thought it would…

        • Arglebargle says:

          Morrowind was on my computer for three years. Oblivion for six weeks. Oblivion’s big mcguffin, the demon plane citadels, were nearly identical, and after the first one or two, they became boring episodes of red tedium. Overhyped, underdelivered. Radiant AI? Ha! Voice acting? Don’t you even start to tell me about the mudcrabs! I’d rather meet cliffracers all day….

          Not to mention that they turned Cyrodil into a dull D&D GM’s idea of a fantasy world. Devoid of character and substance.

          • Narzhul says:

            Now now, Oblivion was vastly inferior to any other Elder Scrolls game. But at least, they gave us.. the guards!

            “STOP RIGHT THERE YOU CRIMINAL SCUM,” is no less awesome than “arrow in the knee.”

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            particlese says:

            I think that was much more amusing than the arrow-knee comments, actually, but it doesn’t quite match Morrowind’s “Yehs?”, “Myehs?”, and “Oh…you’re naked…spare me.”

      • RandomEsa says:

        At least oblivion had decent RPG-elements. It also had a better quest lines outside of the main story and was also more varied than skyrim. Also it had classes so when you started as a thief you were better at sneaking, pickpocketing, lockpicking etc. instead of being the Blank Dragonface that everyone is at the start of skyrim. I didn’t like oblivion when I first played and thought it as a step down from morrowind, but skyrim to me was a step down from oblivion.

        The only thing better in Skyrim is combat, graphics, voice-acting and level-scaling. Its not a bad game but It shows the decline that elder scroll series has had from ever since from daggerfall ( slow decline, but still a decline).

        • Narzhul says:

          Disagree with that. When they attempted to streamline Morrowind into Oblivion, all they did was remove skills and such. It was truly a simple dumbing down of mechanics. Whereas with Skyrim, they changed the mechanics. I wouldn’t say it’s dumbing down, but simply a change.

          I’d argue the roleplaying aspect is fine as well. The perk system is fine, and at the very least the sneak/lockpick/pickpocket perk system is actually pretty interesting, and allows you to be a better thief than in Morrowind or Oblivion.

          There are various things in which Skyrim is inferior to Morrowind of course, like the spell/magic system, which is still pretty similar to Oblivion. Or lack of underwater fighting. Or the lack of weapon types and armor slots.

          But, I wouldn’t say Skyrim is inferior to Oblivion at all. Oblivion was insanely bland and empty, probably the only redeeming feature it had was the Dark Brotherhood questline. And the numerous mods it had.

          • RandomEsa says:

            Perk system would be fine If they actually added new mechanics in to the gameplay. Having 20% more damage with my spells is not a perk. While there are few good ones like Eagle Eye too many of them are just a simple % increase/decrease in mana cost, damage, extra-effect etc.

            I think the word you’re looking for is “Streamlined”. Going from short blade, long blade from morrowind to just blades in oblivion and then just to 1-handed weapons in skyrim is a “modernization” done in a bad way that really takes away from the RPG experience. Sure skyrim tried to do things differently compared to earlier games but It almost changed too much so It couldn’t be called a elder scrolls anymore.

          • Narzhul says:

            If you didn’t notice, I already used the word “Streamline.” The point is, Oblivion’s streamlining of the leveling system was done in a dumbing-down sort of way, whereas Skyrim’s was done with a change of mechanics.

            I don’t see much wrong with the perk system. One handed for example, can have you go into dual-wield that’s fast, ignore perks that aren’t related to swords, etc. They can give power attacks that paralyze and such as well. The +% of damage is pretty much in line with the previous games anyway, except this time you can gain much more through the perk system compared to just raising the skills. What’s wrong with it? A character that focuses on one-handed perks will be much, much better at melee than someone who focuses on magic but has high one-handed skills. My mage character however, will far outstrip my melee character when it comes to blasting people with fire. Perks restricts you into making conscious choices of what your character wants to be. Illusionist Fighter? Enchanter Blacksmith with good blade skills? Thief that does Destruction? Plenty of roleplaying in that I’d say.

            I like both of Skyrim’s and Morrowind’s leveling system. Both can be power-gamed, yet both can be done casually if desired. Oblivion’s.. not so much. The streamlining of equipments and magic in both Skyrim and Oblivion is obviously saddening however.

          • Archonsod says:

            “Or the lack of weapon types and armor slots.”

            The armour slots actually make a lot more sense now. Weapon wise as it stands they’re split between slow and hard hitting blunt, fast but light damage swords and axes in the middle, with a perk enabled special for each. There’s certainly scope for a bit more variety; they could bring spears / polearms back and play around with reach too, though I’d also like to see a little more variation in the existing weapons. As it stands I find myself inevitably gravitating towards the axes since they’re the best middle ground in terms of physical capabilities while the special capability added by the perks isn’t really potent enough to sway the choice one way or the other.

          • Narzhul says:

            The slots at least make more sense that Oblivion, that much is sure. But I do miss the mix-and-match options that was available in Morrowind. They’ve already pretty much fixed the issue of excessively OP enchantments by restricting the types of enchantments allowed on pieces, so it shouldn’t really matter if they have pauldrons and greaves.

            Weapon types of course was referring to spears, and perhaps more missile weapon options like throwing stars. They added crossbows again, so that’s a start. Have to say I also liked the different types of damages you get when you chop, slash and thrust. But I suppose that’s hard to implement with the current system. Oh! What I miss from Oblivion was the rolling dodge. Dual-wield combat would be so friggin awesome if we could dodge.

    • Mctittles says:

      They’ll most likely make more than a regular sold game on people paying a monthly fee for a month or three, plus either a year subscription or other buy ahead scheme.

      Then they’ll open it free to play, make some money on micro transactions and finally dump the servers with a nice profit margin.

    • gwathdring says:

      Careful you don’t conflate personal preferences with general consensus, there. I prefer Skyrim to Oblivion and haven’t played Morrowind (and after extensive research figure I wouldn’t like it as much as I like Skyrim and thus haven’t bought it). But I’m not a hardcore fan and certainly not ALL hard core fans. I’m pretty sure general consensus among hardcore fans is Morrowind, Skyrim, Oblivion if we’re just looking at those three. Maybe I don’t hang out in enough hard-core forums, though.

      The idea, as I’ve heard it, is that Morrowind has a better world with more wonder and strangeness (I can’t tell if I would agree with this or not without playing), better RPG mechanics (this is a bit I know I’d disagree with for the same reasons I roll dice in Apocalypse World instead of Chainmail), and less reliance on action mechanics (this know I’d agree with, but I like this change). Oblivion had crappier leveling systems than Skyrim, a poorly designed attribute/skill system, lots of bugs, and a rather generic world even compared to Skyrim. Skyrim has lots of bugs, is more flavored than Oblivion but still too generic (I think I would disagree with hardcore fans here but would have to play Morrowind first), has way better action than Oblivion … but doesn’t really look like an RPG (again, disagree), and certainly isn’t as good as many more straight-laced action games at the action-y bits anyway (heartily concur); finally, Skyrim has similar levels of incongruity in the main quest-line as Oblivion (agreed), and just doesn’t have enough color in the world to make the mainstay of the series (going a-wanderin’) function as well as Morrowind (as with Fallout 3, I find myself at a loss for how someone could find the sorts of things I’ve gotten myself into bland and colorless … so I’d probably disagree here too).

      I have things I’d rather do than play Morrowind, but I really do want to see what all the fuss is about …

      P.S. Someone mentioned a 20% damage perk being too boring and not-perk-like. I would agree to a point. I suppose I’d rather there be a wider variety of perks with bigger effects in Skyrim as well as fewer numbers all around, but I’d counter that as long as your system explicitly acknowledges it’s numerical basis (You have Unarmed of 45), perks that are purely numerical are perfectly valid and fit just fine with the system.

    • Shooop says:

      Do “hardcore” fans of ES even want a MMO set in that universe? Considering the storyline is always about the player being “the chosen one” it’s kind of hard to make any kind of meaningful story around that when there’s hundreds of chosen ones running about.

    • Smaug says:

      Good gawd why cant you just use the money from Skyrim sales to make the next game betterer, nobody wants WoW clone 267

  6. Giuseppe says:

    I’ve always avoided MMORPGs the way a cat avoids getting into water. Though I loved Morrowind so much in the day that I remember saying to some of my friends the only MMORPG that I would play would be an Elder Scrolls game.

    Somehow nowadays I’m not so sure I would do it.

    • Xzi says:

      I had a similar experience. I think that’s because we imagined an Elder Scrolls MMO would be Morrowind, just with more players. In reality, however, this is probably going to turn out more like some mutated offspring of WoW and Skyrim. The former being ridiculously easy and repetitive, and the latter requiring mods to make enjoyable.

  7. Vorphalack says:

    A 3 way face off between a man, an elf and an armoured beard. A glimpse at what could have been if only The Good the Bad and the Ugly had been set in middle earth.

    • Blackcompany says:

      I read this comment on the day I finish reading joe abercrombie’s Red Country. Fitting.

    • Shooop says:

      Now my life feels incomplete because such a thing you described doesn’t exist yet.

      Thanks a bunch.

  8. khomotso says:

    I don’t think the controversy is just that it’s different from Elder Scrolls SP, it’s that all the dev interviews and promos seem to have no new MMO ideas to bring to the table whatsoever. It has all the appearance of just more rent-seeking on the IP, without any real reason for the MMO game to exist as such.

    Give me *something*, some kind of hook that says ‘Our TES experience has showed us a bunch of things we’d like to do that we think only an MMO could really realize,’ and I’ll be up for giving it a try. Instead we get a bunch of boostering that comes across as ‘We don’t really know much about MMOs, so here are some boilerplate MMO phrases, but, well, Skyrim! and play with friends!’

    Added to which, the Elder Scrolls IP is very weak tea, no matter what Colonel Sanders says or how mellifluously.

    • dontnormally says:

      +1 internets for vocab.

    • Blackcompany says:

      Nailed my feelings exactly. Just nothing compelling. An mmo from people who don’t know the genre set in the TES universe by people out of touch with why we love TES games.

      • Giuseppe says:

        Couldn’t have said it better myself.

      • Runs With Foxes says:

        It might turn out to be an ordinary rehash of a typical MMO, but it’s not true that the developers “don’t know” MMOs.

        Just doing a search for the developers who appear in that second video, it turns out:

        Matt Firor worked on Dark Age of Camelot
        Paul Sage worked on Ultima Online and Tabula Rasa
        Jared Carr worked on Star Wars Galaxies and DC Universe Online
        Nick Konkle worked on Gods & Heroes
        Brian Wheeler worked on Dark Age of Camelot and Warhammer Online

        And they probably have a bunch of other developers with MMO experience.

        The question for me is whether it’ll have a subscription fee. That model is dead, and they’d be shooting themselves in the foot if they choose it.

    • CapnZapp says:

      Exactly this.

      Zenimax have completely failed to explain why ESO will/should succeed where countless MMOs before them have failed.

      The Elders Scrolls lore is exceedingly weak tea indeed. It reads as an hodge podge of 80’s fantasy ideas just like Forgotten Realms.

      The strength of Skyrim, the reason all those non-gamers bought it, is the alluring visuals, the ability to go just about anywhere and lift a rock. It is THIS we want to do, with a friend or five.

      As a rpg, however, Skyrim is completely botched. Since enemies aren’t tied to your actual combat capability, but your “level”; things get (too) easy if you focus on training just the skills you’re good at, and things get (too) hard if you dare to do what the game so obviously encourages you to, namely branch out to become a jack of many trades. If you play the game straight, first things get way too easy (since you level up in only the stuff that lets you kill stuff, your overall level drags behind). Then they get harder relative to you (once you’ve leveled up your primary skills, raising other skills will only make enemies harder while not benefitting you directly). Atrocious.

    • Shooop says:

      My thoughts exactly as well sir.

      I’m not a fan of MMOs in general because they’re all the same games but with different art teams. There hasn’t been a single one that’s fundamentally different enough to be worth my attention.

      Slapping the brand of The Elder Scrolls on Just Another MMO 121 is not appealing in the least not because it’s not a single player ES, but because it’s Just Another MMO 122.

  9. spongthe1st says:


  10. Oryon says:

    Am i the only person that hopesthat one day these things will be as good as the cinematics that promote them and wishes these guys to just go do actual films instead of MMOs?

    • pigman says:

      No your not :-)
      I’ve loved the watching the cinematic trailers for the likes of Warhammer Online and Warcraft over the years. And since being blown away by Final Fantasy Spirits Within so many years ago I’d love for someone else to have a go.

    • Hmm-Hmm. says:

      Sure, or perhaps a choose your own adventure style game.

  11. TomEllinson says:

    I know this is about beta launch and whatnot, but rewatching that video with actual gameplay….


    • Brun says:


      All video game combat can be boiled down to “hotkeyed drivel.” You press a key. Something happens. Press another key. Something else happens.

      Name me one video game *ever* to which that doesn’t apply.

      • Vorphalack says:

        ET: The Extra Terrestrial. Press a key, nothing happens.

        • Brun says:

          Fair point, but can you really consider ET to be a game? I mean sure, it plugged into a console, but I think most people used it as a paperweight or to shore up landscape embankments.

      • Ricc says:

        You could “swing” your mouse in Daggerfall to hit screaming skeletons, if that counts.

      • Michael Fogg says:

        But when your press a key in Dragon Age II SOMETHING AWESOME HAPPENS!


      • Consumatopia says:

        Some games have motion, mouse or analog stick support in which a continuous range of possible inputs by the player are translated one-to-one into the game state (e.g. moving your character or aiming your weapon).

        Other games will vary the effect of pressing a button or key depending on how long it is pressed.

        Neither of these kinds of inputs could reasonably be called “hotkeys”. Indeed, walking around with WASD in an MMO is not considered an example of hotkey usage. (What makes typical MMO combat hotkey-centric is that it’s designed to prevent you from being able to dodge with WASD.)

        • Brun says:

          Having to manage your position doesn’t really separate you from “hotkey combat” (WoW, the biggest hotkey sinner of all, requires a significant amount of position management).

          That said, I still don’t really understand the complaint about hotkey combat, for exactly the reasons I listed above. At some point in every game you’re going to be clicking, pressing a button, or swinging your mouse to do something (swing your weapon, cast a spell, shoot bullets at your target, aim, etc.). The only thing I keep coming back to is that maybe people don’t like that “hotkey combat” boils down to rotations, but given enough players and enough time, the optimum sequence of button presses (or mouse movements, or whatever) for a given situation in *any* game will always be derived.

          • DXN says:

            I disagree. In practical terms, something “analog” like FPS combat is irreducible; you can’t derive an optimum sequence of keypresses that applies in anyuseful number of situations. At most you can formulate some general guidelines about what works in what sort of situation. The fact that it involves keystrokes and so is “hotkey based” is only trivially true.

            With typical MMO combat, optimum sequences of power-activations are something you can come much closer to actually *solving* for optimum damage. Admittedly this effect is somewhat reduced in, say, GW2, where positioning and dodging have some impact — although in large battles it ceases to be very meaningful.

          • Consumatopia says:

            I never said that hotkeys were literally the only form of interaction in any MMO. You said “All video game combat can be boiled down to ‘hotkeyed drivel.'” And this claim was false–other games have analog controls that can’t be reduced to hotkeys.

            What DXN said is correct, but I want to be more precise about this. MMO combat is designed the way that is for a reason–to be robust against latency problems. The first M in MMO implies that people across oceans want to play on the same server. Aimed attacks that players could dodge rely on low latency. So dodging or anything like it–anything where the effect of your actions is strongly dependent on what other players did in the last couple of milliseconds–is disallowed or restricted.

            The guiding principle of MMO design seems to be to prevent player skill being too significant–either so significant that flaws in the system (e.g. latency) are revealed, or from “unbalancing” (i.e. messing up their skinner box metrics) the game. Of course player skill matters–but not too much. DXN got hit the nail on the head–the kinds of interaction in most MMOs are much easier to optimize, not only for the players, but for the developers.

            There’s also a simpler problem here. Though it’s clearly false that everything is reducible to hotkeys, even the weaker claim that everything is reducible to mouse/keyboard input misses something–what exactly do those movements correspond to in the game state? In an fps game, my key presses control exactly how a character moves, and my mouse movements is the direction a character looks, my mouse click is the pull of the trigger.

            Now compare to that to a couple of melee characters fighting in an MMO. They can walk…but they can’t dodge, dodging is something that happens randomly. They can click a target…and eventually their avatar decides to go over and attack it. They can click some buffs or debuffs…which makes no sense in terms of real-world melee combat, but, hey, you’ve got to give the player something to do while they’re cooling down.

      • derbefrier says:

        Context, it matters.

  12. Azdeus says:

    Zombie Werewolves? They could’nt decide between appealing to the Walking Dead, Twilight/True Blood fans and just went shotgunnin’? Add in the description on their website going all “Winter is Coming!”.

    Pretty snazzy looking trailer otherwise, I like three factions, that’s good stuff.
    Other than that, I can’t decide if I actually want to even sign up for this.

    I mean, an MMO does’nt really play true to the strengths of the IP; I mean, there won’t be any possibility for nude mods or bouncing boobs!

    • Brun says:

      The only problem with the three factions is that they basically fly in the face of TES lore.

      • Azdeus says:

        I’ll be honest, I don’t really remember that much about the background lore of the Elder Scrolls universer as such. It’s been quite a while since I played Morrowind, in wich I did read the books and such.

        That said, I like three factions, I’ll wholeheartedly agree with you that it’s against the Lore. Then again, it’s theirs to rap.. I mean, retconn as they wish.

        Got any more details about the factions breaking the lore?

        • Brun says:

          One of the factions puts Nords, Dunmer, and Argonians together. These are three factions that could not hate each other more. The Nord/Dunmer rivalry was related thoroughly in Skyrim via some quests and interactions in Windhelm. Oblivion elaborates on how the Dunmer continuously enslave the Argonians, though less thoroughly.

          My point is that they created the factions based on geography rather than on combinations that actually made sense – Skyrim, Morrowind, and Black Marsh are all contiguous, to someone not informed on TES lore I’m sure it made sense to put them together, but according to the lore the fact that those regions are adjacent to one another more often leads to their continuous fighting rather than their cooperation.

          • spongthe1st says:

            Exactly this.

            Also agree on the zombie werewolf disbelief. I saw them and immediately wrote this thing off more than it was already written off on the basis of the anti-lore faction composition. It started badly and went steadily downhill from there.

          • Davie says:

            The dumbest thing about this is that it could have still worked more or less geographically if they’d just shifted the alliances around a little bit. Argonian/Khajiit/Bosmer and Orc/Nord/Dunmer make a hell of a lot more sense. Altmer/Redguard/Breton is a bit of a stretch, but not nearly as bad.

  13. Dowr says:

    That CG trailer was generic as hell! But the faces were nice, yes.

    • Nasser says:

      Yeah, I mistook the header picture for live-action. Quite incredible.

      • Hanban says:

        I was about to come in here and comment on how lame I thought live-action trailers were! Golly!

  14. rapchee says:

    i was going to comment “pf another live action trailer” but then i watched it O_o that was pretty impressive

  15. Acorino says:

    “Once you hit Level 50, that’s really where the game opens up.”

    I just…this game…I have hopes for the Elder Scrolls series going forward, I really love Skyrim (well, sometimes, at other times, I’m bored with it or apathetic towards it), but I don’t think an MMO could fulfill these hopes, especially not one that is as generic in design as this one. I’m solely judging based on the introductory video linked in the post. It doesn’t get more out of me than a firm “meh”.

    • Tomac says:

      “Once you hit (insert level cap here), that’s really where the game opens up.”

      Said every MMO ever.

      • Koozer says:

        “We’ll be working on more end-game content after launch!”

        1 month after launch – “Sorry, the new area is delayed. But, see, look at our numbers, there are still lots of people levelling up!”

        2 months after launch – “We’ll soon be merging servers to give people a more fulfilling and epic feeling to their worlds!”

        3 months after launch – “Look, the new area! Isn’t it nice? Please resubscribe, please!”

        3 months and one week after launch – “Well, we really didn’t expect everyone to get through the new content that quickly! We’ll be announcing our plan for the future soon!”

        etc. etc.

  16. Barberetti says:

    I didn’t bother watching the new trailer, but decided to watch the “Introduction to the Elder Scrolls Online” vid instead, as I hadn’t seen any footage of the game until now. Looks pretty good actually. The combat looks way more fun than the single player games, and for once the character animation doesn’t look like it would be more at home in an episode of Thundebirds.

    Yeah, I like what I’m seeing so far. I think I’ll give this a go when it’s released.

    • Mctittles says:

      Thanks for the heads up, I just searched for that and watched it.

      heh…Technology called “Mega-Server”

  17. Zanchito says:

    Huge TES fan since Arena, not interested in the least. :( I liked Skyrim a lot, though. It wasn’t Morrowind, but it was really neat.

  18. razgon says:

    Either RPS or Bethesda made a mistake with the video – its one speaker only.

  19. apocraphyn says:

    Always game to try out a new MMO, though this one doesn’t really pull me in at all. There’s nothing about TES lore that has ever really pulled me in (apart from maybe the extinction of the Dwemer). I mean – they’ll have tons of it to apply, and I’m sure they can make quite the vibrant MMO world out of it, but the lore in their games always came off as cheap, tiresome and particularly old-hat.

    Regardless, I’ll sign up and give it a shot. Benefit of the doubt and all that.

  20. TheIronSky says:

    It’s simply not an Elder Scrolls game when you add MMO elements – that’s the disappointing part.

    Lore and everything aside, The Elder Scrolls series has always been some of the finest first-person, single-player RPG games ever made (in my humble opinion) and once you add multiplayer and a competitive environment, it loses what makes it so incredible in the first place.

    I play Elder Scrolls to get my Ultima Underworld fix, not to “power level” and run dungeons with a bunch of arseholes spamming the chat.

  21. I Got Pineapples says:

    I wonder…

    Does World of Warcraft feel sad when it kills these things?

    I mean, the first few times there must have been a sense of achievement to it, a sense that it had faced another game and that game had been found wanting…

    But now, when it looks down at what it’s killed and finally lifts the boot off it’s crushed throat, does it just feel numb?

    • Tomac says:

      World of Warcraft was converted into an unfeeling machine many years ago.

    • Lord Custard Smingleigh says:

      World of Warcraft wakes. He’s back in the arena basement, shackled by arcane EULAs that glitter like the razor-sharp edges of broken dreams. His body, once youthful and vibrant, is an aged husk, not so much alive as forbidden to die.

      He glances at himself in the dirty, cracked mirror and shudders. He considers slitting his throat with the dull blade they allow him for shaving.
      No, he thinks. The last time he attempted suicide it was sold as an expansion.

      Somewhere below the level of hearing he can feel the vibration of the baying crowds in the arena outside and he knows the reason for his awakening. There is another challenger. Another hopeful, doomed challenger. He steps through dank tunnels and emerges, blinking, into the sunlight.

      He casts an experienced eye over his new opponent. The surface contrast could not be more obvious. The newcomer practically sparkles with particle effects and there are more polygons in the newcomer’s hair than in Warcraft’s entire body. But they are not so different, under the surface. The same genre conventions move them, the same financial motivations guide their masters.

      Warcraft evaluates the challenger’s stance. Bold, cocky. A hint of fear. Good, so he knows the stakes. The Old Republic is a barely-living monument to the price of failure, slumped to one side of the arena, a dazed look on his face as he continues to bleed subscribers into the sand. Warcraft remembers the look of shock as the license-sabers TOR was wielding shattered beneath his sword.

      The newcomer roars a challenge, his own name. Elder Scrolls. So that’s who Warcraft is here to kill. There’s always that flicker of hope. Will this be the one? Will this be the one who finally gives Warcraft his rest? World of Warcraft draws FrostMMOurne, his cursed sword of +12 million subscribers, and prepares to do the only thing he remembers how to do.

  22. EchoVelocity says:

    I signed up for the beta, but I haven’t got much hope for this one. What we need in the MMO space is new ideas. Guild Wars 2 is great and I love it, but to me it hasn’t gone far enough. Unfortunately, TES Online looks to be quite cookie-cutter. They need to show me (and lots of others) that they have their own unique take on the genre.

  23. Archipelagos says:

    Technical accomplishments aside, that trailer was dull as dishwater.

    • Jenks says:

      It’s sad where the genre has gone.

      Contrast this opening cinematic with the one from Everquest:
      link to

      One evokes a huge sense of adventure and wonder, the other is a extraordinarily polished silly action sequence. In a way, they represent their games perfectly.

      • Archipelagos says:

        One creates a world, the other just sets up a series of fights. No sense of adventure / exploration whatsoever.

  24. Liudeius says:

    I’m just signing up for the beta because I want to play it for free to see if I want to bother with it.
    Considering I’ve sworn off MMO’s, I probably won’t want to bother with it.

  25. Dlarit says:

    Anyone else get the 404 page after clicking submit?

  26. Cooper says:

    It’s worth noting that nothing you seen in that video can be done in game.

    Where they fight more than one thing at a time, chaning attacks from on to the other? Not possible
    That cool bit where they dodge stuff? Not possible
    The ‘physics’ bit where the rope bridge is cut/falls: Not possible

    All of the above? Possible in the lat two ES single player games

  27. Rhuhuhuhu says:

    Reading the NDA… no… not once, not now and never will I submit my sorrow hours of free gaming time too NDA’s. Screw that, I’ll just go back to Skyrim and make lame video’s of me kicking dragons in the face while playing the lute and being applauded by citizens.

    Having read it further, look at this clause:

    “(c) You acknowledge the reliance of ZeniMax on Your honest, good faith, and unbiased commentary, suggestions, and evaluations of the Game. You represent and agree that You will act at all times with the highest ethical standards.”

    Comparing that to the EA-riot currently going on… this is roughly the same: Failing to fulfil your role as a reviewer means a breach in contract, in which case a horrible lawyers faith awaits you, or if not, you’ll likely be banned.

    So are you guys, after being so angry at EA for demanding stupid stuff in their EULA, going to sign up with Bethesda/Zenimax which says roughly the same?

    • cube911 says:

      I’m sorry, but this is totally not the same as the EA EULA incident.

  28. DaftPunk says:

    Trailer looked good,actual gameplay looks very generic even graphics look way to cartoonish..

  29. Svant says:

    I like how the combat system looks exactly like every other MMO out there… and how they acknowledge that the combat system i Skyrim was “click left mouse to attack, right mouse to block”.

  30. AnotherGamingEnglishman says:

    Since learning that the combat seems to be surprisingly action-oriented in this game my cynicism regarding it has lessened somewhat.

    When it comes down to it, the combat is the real making or breaking point for me these days, I’m so tired of anything that involves “target with tab > mash hotkeys > hope it dies before you do”. It’s a shame Tera was so abominably grindy and mundane.

    ESO seems to have the right intentions, the Bethesda fans can cry all they want about it “not being a real Elder Scrolls game”, but frankly, I’m never going to complain when someone’s giving me some more Elder Scrolls lore, and if they can serve it up in a genuinely enjoyable MMO format? That’s fine by me.

  31. DK says:

    It’ll either start F2P or be F2P within 6 months.

  32. AraxisHT says:

    Calling it now: It’s another WoW clone with a licensed coat of paint and will fail miserably. I hope I’m wrong.

  33. moocow says:

    Can we call it TEScO, just for the jokes when it inevitably resorts to free-to-play microtransactions?

  34. Stormdancer says:

    Bleh. The Khajiit and Argonians look just like everything else, with a tail stuck on the backside.

    C’mon, guys. GW2 did beast races right. Step up your game a bit.

    • Lev Astov says:

      Even worse than that, their faces are horrible.

      GW2 was great, and Skyrim did the Argonians and Kajiit really well.

    • spongthe1st says:

      While I get where you’re coming from and I, personally, think this game will be utter tripe, I must say I don’t get where much of the beast race style criticism has come from in every game since Morrowind. The lore quite clearly shows that khakiit at least come in a variety of types, iirc there are like at least nine, probably more, ranging from small house cat-like versions to tigers to elf-like ones

  35. TormDK says:

    I’m not convinced, we didn’t see enough elf cleavage.

  36. The Sombrero Kid says:

    Utterly pointless

    • SheffieldSteel says:

      Where’s the role-playing? Where are the factions in which to work your way up the hierarchy? Where are the obscure herbs that you munch as you troll about the hillsides, hoping that the local wildlife isn’t stalking you?

      I am far from convinced. I really wanted to be. Coulda/shoulda…

  37. Jenks says:

    There’s a 50/50 chance of me playing this game if they fix Argonians.

    If they look like 2:55 in that gameplay video, then there’s absolutely no chance.

  38. Cytrom says:

    The quality of the cg was nice… but i have no idea what was going on in it, Who was fighting who, for what reason? No idea, despite that I have played hundreds of hours of all tes games.

  39. HighlordKiwi says:

    Sod ESO, I want the game implied by that trailer… playing as heroes leading a few elite troops and assaulting a fortress (or maybe any battlefield) with multiple ways of getting things done either co-op or competitive.

  40. abandonhope says:

    After Oblivion and, to a lesser extent, Skyrim, I’ve wanted so badly to see other lands in Tamriel and find them weird, like Morrowind. But not like this. NOT LIKE THIS.

  41. Urthman says:

    I don’t get how Bethesda thinks the mod community can finish, fix, and polish their game for them if it’s an MMO. Have they worked out a way for an MMO to allow mods?

  42. PsychoWedge says:

    the cgi-thingy is impressive as fuck on a technical level and boring as my grey underpants on every other…

  43. Giuseppe says:

    I was thinking… what race is that chick supposed to be? The one in the top picture. Is she supposed to be an elf? ’cause as far as I know elves in Tamriel weren’t supposed to look like generic movie LOTR-style elves aka fair-skinned humans with pointy ears.

    The major elf races as far as I know are the High Elves, with yellow-green skin, the Dark Elves, with blue skin, and Wood Elves, which do have white skin, but they all have very different facial features. Oh, and Orcs in the Elder Scrolls are also technically a kin of elves.

    Which brings me back to my original question. What race is that chick supposed to be? Has Bethesda bowed before the public outcry that elves in Skyrim are ugly?

    • Narzhul says:

      Just the female elf? I couldn’t tell what races any of them were.

      • Giuseppe says:

        I don’t know what race any of them are, but since we can’t see that many details I just assumed they were all humans of some sort or another. But the woman, with those pointy ears, she can’t be a human. I’m thinking Bethesda is planning to throw all the Elder Scrolls lore out the window in order to appeal to as wide a target audience as possible. And since many Elder Scrolls newcomers have complained that Elves in Skyrim are too ugly and don’t look like the super-hot Blood Elves of WoW or the kingly Elves of LoTR… one big change would be that Elves in the Elder Scrolls Online will no longer look like Elves from the Elder Scrolls. They’ll look like stock-Elves that you’ve seen countless times before.

        Of course, this is just pure speculation on my part.

        • Narzhul says:

          Well, there was also the.. blue? elf-looking thing in the underground part. I mean, that looked even worse if it was supposed to be a dunmer. And the mask-hooded dude was all *reveals face* as if that was supposed to tell us something. What the hell was he?!

          None of them really looked like anything and it’s just so sad. But I’m gonna chalk it up to the animation team not really knowing what the hell they’re doing. If even the MMO does that in-game, there’ll be hell to pay from the fans even if we don’t play the damn game!

  44. Shooop says:

    The inevitable failure will hopefully be another nail in the coffin of MMOs.

  45. paddymaxson says:

    I suppose it’s a given that that trailer is impossibly far removed from actual gameplay, seeing as single player elder scrolls games have never had anything even close to as interesting in a quest.

    Running and leaping off some sort of special castle invasion bridge, sliding along it’s ropes, then falling onto another one below, doing a jumping dual handed knife throw and then fucking some people up?

    No, more like, go to a cave, kill some more draugrs.

    Assaulting a castle by climbing the walls using long ropes, dodging falling debris and fighting defending troops while hanging precariously?

    No, best go kill 4 guys who’re hanging out in a ruined tower.

  46. ZephaniahGrey says:

    What the live action trailer is: Awesome.
    What the live action trailer isn’t: THE ELDER SCROLLS

    Having played every game in the series, and even the little side games not directly in the series, I have NO idea what I just saw. Also, I’m tired of game trailers that show a bunch of really cool stuff that you will NEVER be able to do in the game. That said, the game itself looks interesting as long as they take the GuildWars 2 model and not a F2P or subscription setup. F2P draws an abysmal crowd, and my days of paying subs is long over.

  47. Moraven says:

    Sure enough it looks absolutely nothing like the game.

    This trailer is as far removed from the game as I am from attractive women.

    It actually reminds me of those old PS1 era adverts. Where they would use live action and CGI on tv adverts because they knew the actual gameplay looked terrible.

    Sorry, I had to filled the void. Since you know, I am not only just hate Blizzard games and hate all game promo trailers.

  48. HelenSmithe22 says:

    til I looked at the paycheck which said $6120, I be certain that my best friend was like they say truley erning money in their spare time at their computer.. there mums best friend started doing this for only about 16 months and resently repayed the morgage on their house and purchased a great new Mercedes-Benz S-class. read more at,

  49. Dan Forever says:

    Every time I read “TESO” I hear “Tesco” in my head.

  50. iridescence says:

    I wish they had made literally an online version of Skyrim where you could go and do what you wanted and actually affect the world. At the end of the day I think I just want a huge massively multiplayer version of D&D which is always what this genre of gaming promised and tantalised me with.

    Instead we just get another game that sounds moderately interesting til you hit level cap and then turns in to a tiresome “endgame” grind.

    Until MMOs totally kill off the concept of endgame, I don’t think they will ever reach their potential in my eyes. EVE is the only one with the right idea.

    Still hoping Pathfinder will not dissappoint. Too bad it’s still years away.