Thank You: LoL’s Sejuani Gets Sensible Redesign

League of Legends is notorious for a lot of things: a steep yet rewarding learning curve, a sometimes less-than-cuddly community, making all the money and stealing all your friends and leaving you painfully alone/playing Heroes of Newerth, etc. And then, of course, there’s that other thing people don’t talk about nearly enough: shamelessly exposed, highly impractical female character designs. Yes, it’s fantasy. Yes, it’s fiction. It doesn’t matter; this stuff alienates people, and that’s a fact. But while calling out people who see women exclusively as chainmail bikini stands is important, there’s an equally key flipside to the coin: encouragement. So good on Riot for beginning to take baby steps in the right direction with Sejuani. Her gigantic boar, however, continues to parade about trouser-less, a picture of frolicking filth.

Here’s the basic idea behind the redesign, courtesy of Riot:

“Sejuani’s lightly-armored, skin-flaunting, fleshy apparel didn’t mesh with the idea of a dominating ice warrior. Now heavily armored atop Bristle, this visual rework clearly conveys the core of our concept for the champion. She’s powerful, capable of conquering the Freljord and leading the Winter’s Claw to victory.”

It’s a much appreciated change, but Sejuani’s leap forward doesn’t stop at simple looks. Modified skills have fairly substantially upgraded her range of roles early, mid, and late game. The full list of changes is available for your perusal here, but the general idea was to “add enhanced utility to her skills, allowing her to go head-on as a massive, tanky initiator. With a powerful armor-generating passive, a potent knock-up, AoE damage and slow to go along with a tweaked version of Glacial Prison, the Winter’s Wrath is now even more angry.”

Riot’s in the process of revamping quite a few champions, so it’ll be interesting to see where everyone ends up. Hopefully Sejuani sets the pace, although Karma‘s literal disrobing has me feeling somewhat doubtful. I mean, if nothing else, consistent internal logic is nice, no matter how ridiculous the setting. I don’t want to see everyone up to their eyeballs in parkas (with their eyeballs, in turn, donning smaller parkas of their own), but let me invest in a setting that makes sense for everyone – not just a lucky few.

Actually, it’d be pretty nice if that statement applied to the real world, too. Just saying.


  1. Mordsung says:

    I wish they’d quit it with the topless, chiseled dudes and the pretty faced dudes as well. May not be quite as bad, but it’s in the same realm of stupidity as chainmail bikinis.

    Warriors do not tend to stay pretty and they’d look more like the portly men of the world’s strongest man competitions than they would like He-man.

    • El_Emmental says:

      +1, if LoL was a niche game and not yet another “entertainment” service, they would have credible warriors (of both genders/lifeform/whatever) and not a bunch of cliché characters.

      • Mordsung says:

        I do enjoy their void characters, like Cho’gath and Kassadin, but the rest of the roster doesn’t do much for me.

    • frightlever says:

      They don’t reflect the variety of disabilities likely suffered by warrior classes either and the majority of their champions skew very young. Where are the wheelchair-using old champions?

      This game is a hate crime.

      • Bhazor says:

        Why aren’t there any like that? They sound awesome.

        Certainly much more interesting than just another “Shaolin Monk” character.

      • KDR_11k says:

        Now I want to see Harman Smith in there.

        • Baines says:

          License Cohen the Barbarian and his horde. The influx of Discworld fans would probably pay for the licensing fees.

      • RedViv says:

        Mein Beschworer! I can walk!

      • InternetBatman says:

        Urgot. link to

        Pay attention. Also Sona is mute.

        • RedViv says:

          Fantasy-wise, Viktor and Xerath might also count. Both have replaced their bodies because they failed them.

          Personally, I’m still waiting for a designer to pick up some classic Baba Yaga. Old witch, floating around in her magical mortar because she can barely walk. Sweetness.

          • Fluka says:

            A hearty “hell yeah!” to the suggestion of a badass Baba Yaga!

        • darkChozo says:

          Sion too, his lore is really similar to Urgot’s, though he’s more of a zombie than a stitched-together whatever.

      • lasikbear says:

        Swain walks with a limp and uses a cane.

      • Mordsung says:

        I think a character in a battle wheel chair would kick ass.

        Or war crutches.

      • Ricc says:

        Also Corki would probably be pretty useless without his Roflcopter.

    • ShineyBlueShoes says:

      While it’s not quite the same I will give them credit that at least it goes both ways (though obviously still slanted towards the female end). It’s ridiculous but when they’re at least slightly consistent with it that’s fine, it’s a game that makes no pretense of having anything to do with reality and has an over the top sexualized style.

    • cptgone says:

      why are most game characters always shown dressed? enough with the christian hatred for our bodies already! it’s misanthropic! and why only homo sapiens sapiens? what’s wrong with homo erectus? erections are pro-life, you know. stop being homo-phobic!

    • bfandreas says:

      I do buy that physical fitness helps pushing lanes. But armor that leaves you exposed…yeah, not so much.
      I used to play a female warrior tank WoW. One day I finally got a new chest piece and found that for some explicable but impractical reason it left her navel exposed. Now how do I tank with that when everything wants to stab me in the kidneys? Also isn’t Northrend supposed to be really cold? And doesn’t that chafe?
      I am happy to report that my warrioress wore woolen underthings.

      What do they expect from us? Have a wank to a computer game character? Isn’t that what the magic numbers on our gear is for?

    • KristaMitchell says:

      my friend’s mother makes $88 an hour on the laptop. She has been without work for 9 months but last month her income was $14546 just working on the laptop for a few hours. Here’s the site to read more link to

    • daemonofdecay says:

      I am quite offended by the sexualization of male characters within video games. Why are the vast majority of men in video games buff, good looking dudes with a rich voice and the stamina of an angry rhino? We need more characters that look like self-loathing plumbers, not members of a boy band. Where are the flabby, out of shape, weak-chinned cowards with a fondness for porn and Oreos? Where are the 30-something men with beer guts and unkempt neck-beards?

      And more importantly, why is nobody bringing up and honestly discussing this terrible problem? When will we get male characters that represent reality, rather than some fantasy? I hope RPS will, in the future, have the courage to take a stance on such a tough issue facing us all. There is no sitting on the fence here: ignoring the problem is just allowing the problem to fester.

      • Snargelfargen says:

        You’re creating a false equivalency here, since most male protagonists actually enact a power fantasy, as opposed to negative traits like submissiveness and passivity that turn female characters into one-dimensional victims or eye candy.

        There is a real problem with poorly written male characters (and writing in video games in general) and if you go back and read Wot I Thinks of games like Far Cry 3 and Kane and Lynch, you’ll discover that this is addressed by the writers. Male characters suck too, just in ways that aren’t as blatantly offensive to the target audience.

        • Unrepentant says:

          I think you are also looking at this in too black and white a manner. I know several women I game with who enjoy having unrealistically attractive avatars just as much as my male friends. It is not wrong for either gender to indulge in escapism and power fantasy in my opinion. Additionally, this is a game where a woman who has an adimittedly blatantly fetishistic “Bunny Girl” outfit can smash your face into next week. How is it not empowering to play a character who kicks ass as much as the next male character? If the majority of the female characters in the game were supports, I could see your point. But since so many of them are deadly and powerful I don’t get it, especially when you combine that with the idea that ALL the characters in the game are literally being controlled by the player in lore.
          Now, I have my own concerns regarding LoL’s art style. I don’t like the preposterously thick outlines on everything, nor the way everything has hard angles. And the near lack of casting and attack animations combined with the number of abilities that fling Champions around and the overall Pink and Blue aesthetic makes me feel like I’m playing a cotton candy and rock candy pinball machine. My concerns with armor are entirely practical. And even when you get women who are all armored up in LoL, they wield and do things just as preposterous as the rest of the rest of the cast.
          tl:dr women can play games to feel sexy too, and it is okay

      • noxxit says:


  2. KikiJiki says:

    Meanwhile the folks at Valve continue to put Riot to shame in every aspect of character design without even trying.

    • Asurmen says:

      They don’t need to try, they just need to copy DOTA designs :P

      • KikiJiki says:

        Excepting the fact that visuals are only part of character design? Even if you take visuals only into account then Valve do a superior job, producing much cleaner distinct looking character models that are packed with details to no gameplay detriment (see treant protector’s ‘Riki was here’ carved graffiti). If you take sound and spell effects into consideration then it shows Riot up pretty badly.

        • Asurmen says:

          My point still stands. The main part of every character is already designed for them (which I’m not saying is even a bad thing, just that it doesn’t make them masters of design when the main part of the work has already been done). Anything else is just subjective arguments.

          • HisMastersVoice says:

            What you call “the main part of work” is often stuff like “he’s a skeleton” or “he’s an ant”. The only thing Weaver in DOTA2 shares with Nerubian is the insectile body shape. The actual design traits are Valve’s and there’s no way one could ever mistake one for the other.

          • iPhap says:

            “The main part of every character is already designed for them[…]” Most of the characters are closely reminiscent, but they are in no way carbon copies. Also, the upcoming characters of Legion Commander and Skywrath Mage are significantly different from their DotA 1 counterparts. The voice work is the real kicker though, as it fleshes out the characters in a way that blows Riot’s tits & abs crew out of the water.

      • innociv says:

        Dota designs are pretty lame.

        Yet Valve turns generic names and ideas such as “Shadow Demon” and “Lycan” into stunning looking characters with great voice acting.

        Riot takes more original character ideas on paper and turns them into the same old sex and teenager eye-candy peddling, for the most part.

      • dmoe says:

        And yet they still turn around “dynamic” hero designs even if some of them are catered around the original Dota 1 heroes. There are tons of great things Valve does for their characters that don’t just focus on how they look. But how they animate, sound and at times even die.

        The tiny details Valve is known for are in this game. And if the designs aren’t your thing the voice-acting is amazing to say the least.

    • Bhazor says:

      Crystal Maiden says hi.

      • HisMastersVoice says:

        I see your point. She’s breathing cold, literally radiates frost and turns into ice when she dies. She should run around naked, that would surely increase her body temperature, since the map ambient temperature is almost certainly higher, even on the Forstivus version.

      • ChocolateWaffle says:

        The thing going with Crystal Maiden is that she meditated on a glacier for ages until she basically became cold itself, she has no need to cover her body, only reason she even wears clothes is to not go around naked (it’s explained in the Snowdrop item set, her clothes are just to appear sexy, she doesn’t give a damn about cold).

        • Bhazor says:

          You could say the same about Sejuani. A warrior woman from the frigid ice fields who has trained herself to ignore the cold.

          I have no problem with their character design, outlandish characters make sense in such a stylised and visually busy game. My point was that praising Valve for basically the same character design you’re criticising is disingenuous at best.

          • sabrage says:

            CM is wearing a burqa by Riot standards.

          • darkChozo says:

            Sejuani explicitly has the whole hardened ice warrior who can survive extreme conditions thing going on; her backstory is basically that scene from 300 with the wolf and the snow and the everything.

            That being said, her chainmail bikini basically had no reason to exist. She wasn’t a particularly sexual character, she didn’t have any reason to flaunt her body, nothing like that. Riot knew that, she is by far the most recently released character to have been remade (for reference, she came out of January of last year; the next latest champion to be remade was released 11 months before Sejuani [Karma in Feb ’11]).

            She also had a suite of mechanical and thematic issues outside of the chainmail bikini syndrome, not that anyone focuses on those outside of the LoL community.

      • TheTuninator says:

        While Crystal Maiden certainly could be more covered, even her clothes were far more sensible and covering than Sejuani’s.

        Metal bikini in freezing temperatures? Really?

    • Kaira- says:

      I just can’t wait until Dota 2 drowns in hats and cosmetics that enhance the clean visual style, like in TF2.


      • ChocolateWaffle says:

        Except they are trying really hard to keep characters readable and cosmetics within color palette and lore, unlike LoL’s future lazor robot rainbow clowns and whatever else they release, that recently got all banned in tournament play for being unrecognizeable.

        • Bhazor says:

          And that is exactly what they said about TF2. I mean word for word.

          • HisMastersVoice says:

            The difference is, they actually do that for DOTA2. Look through the shop. Or through the extensive guides for hero cosmetic creation.

      • Smoky_the_Bear says:

        Until they fix the fucking camera and the UI i couldn’t give a shit about DOTA 2, gives me a fucking headache however nice the visual style is.

        • innociv says:

          The camera works great in Dota2.

          I hope you’re not talking about “lock camera on hero” which is the worst “feature” ever.

    • Ex-PFC Wintergreen says:

      Ah yes, the totally non-sexualized ideal feminist characters of DOTA 2 who definitely do not have unnecessary cleavage and excessive make-up/jewellery for supposed warriors.

      And let’s not forget the male heroes who definitely appeal to women! They can choose between ugly brooding men in heavy armour with a gruff-spacemarine personality archtype, or old men with goofy personalities!

      Gosh, they are clearly streets ahead of LoL’s diverse character designs. How can LoL even compete with DoTA2’s over 80% male hero pool when LoL’s male to female champion ratio is about 50%?

      And let’s not forget how DOTA 2’s lore sets such a great example for women, from one of Drow Ranger’s items: “In her youth, Drow was tempted once or twice to throw over her lonely ways and join the Sylvan Guard. These cuffs were a large part of the attraction.”

      A woman who was tempted to completely change her way of life simply because of some shiny new clothes. Do you feel empowered yet, ladies?

      I guess that’s why so, so, many women play DOTA 2 and almost none play league at all.

      • Carbonated Dan says:

        I don’t know about gender representation, or at least, I don’t believe that a mod which happened to become one of the most popular game designs in the world should be criticised for anything as incidental as the gender of heroes. Women certainly played Dota before LoL existed and have been active in Starcraft and SC2 despite the only females in either game being medics, home-making zerg queens and Kerrigan.

        Back to dota and the four female heroes you and your outraged link choose to ignore:
        Naga Siren: A bare-chested female serpent, whose form, use of illusions and ultimate ‘song of the siren’ echo artistic discussion of woman from the old testament and Homer through today’s Mantel and Attwood.
        Broodmother (a spider, no visible tits, lots of children), Spectre (likes purple, no tits) and Medusa (is a gorgon, haven’t noticed any tits or lack of).
        I don’t really have a point here, except that LoL’s girls are all explicitly (in the concept art, the actual game looks like a toddler vomited a pack of crayola into a clogged toilet) female where dota’s aren’t so eager to flaunt it.

        Apologies of course for the bemused weariness of a white male wondering what all the fuss is about.

        • Ex-PFC Wintergreen says:

          Dan, the whole point of my post is debunking the laughable idea regurgitated by DoTA 2 fans that it is somehow a paragon of feminist design excellence. In my post I wonder about just which characters women are supposed to find relatable. The examples you listed aren’t even human, but with my examples I show they had plenty of opportunities to make a relatable human woman and they failed.

          I barely even need to go into League to show it is superior in that regard. Lux, Leona, Kayle, and Quinn are quite capable of existing without shoving cleavage into your face. Coincidentally, they happen to be very popular with female players.

          Sure, there are female champions designed to appeal to men, but there are also male characters showing plenty of impractical male cleavage at the same time. I mean really, do Kassadin and Tryndamere really need to be showing their manboobs and 8-packs off like that? There is no equivalent to that in DoTA 2 except for Lycan and maybe Zeus.

          Don’t get me wrong, I play and enjoy both LoL and DoTA 2 (in spite of dota’s horrid matchmaking) but dota fans really are insufferable prats who need to shut-up and just enjoy their game instead of telling other people they aren’t actually enjoying the game they think they are enjoying.

          • innociv says:

            Lots of women like female characters like Juliet Starling, or Queen of Pain in this case.

            Doesn’t mean that every female in the game, or 90% of them, should be a Juliet Starling. They’re okay in moderation.

            That’s what Dota2 does. The only really sexualized one is Queen of Pain. Lina, Rylai, Mirana, Luna, and Traxex are pretty sexuality, to a lesser degree, and there are just as many females who are straight up monsters. And those 5, excluding Queen of Pain here, are below the average sexualization of a LoL female, and there is just those 5.

            The closest Riot has to a female monster is what, Cassiopiea, which is a slutty lamia?

            Comparing the two makes for a very objective and easy argument.

          • darkChozo says:

            Let’s see, Cassio, Anivia, Soraka, Ahri, Nami, Zyra, Elise.

            Cassiopia, Ahri, Zyra, and Elise are pretty explicitly sexualized, though the latter three are a case of very human monsters (and Ahri’s got the whole kumiho thing going on). Soraka is… kinda sexualized? Nami and Anivia are not at all.

            It’d be interesting to see a proper comparison between the DotA and LoL rosters, there seems to be a lot of incomplete knowledge and cherrypicking of examples.

      • Thurgret says:

        Oh my. I read the first few pages of that thread (continuing past the first only out of morbid fascination), and it was hideous. Is the Dota community really that small-minded and thick, or did the thread just draw them out? I did see a few ‘banned’ tags. Admittedly I rarely bother with the Internet in general beyond very specific sites, but, man, I thought I at least had a good idea of what to expect — nope!

      • PikaBot says:

        DOTA2 isn’t a ‘bastion of feminism’ but there’s really no comparison between it and LoL. Even in cases where the amount of skin on display is comparable (and most of those cases, like Crystal Maiden and Lina, are inherited from Warcraft III), DOTA2’s presentation is miles less sexualized. There are tits, but they aren’t being shoved in my face with nearly so much force, and I certainly don’t have to endure anything as ludicrously hypersexual as Miss Fortune’s walk cycle.

        • jacktheplumber says:

          Some of LoL’s characters are similar to Dota’s Queen of Pain, in that being sexual is an inherent part of their theme. Ahri is the most direct analogue; she’s a succubus like QoP (but not exactly, she’s more like the Asian version of a succubus).

          Miss Fortune is a gun-slinging femme fatale. Actually, most of the sexual characters in LoL fit the “femme fatale” archetype. For example, Cassiopeia corresponds to some portrayals of the mythological character Medusa (although other portrayals make Medusa ugly instead of sexy. Dota’s Medusa is based on the ugly portrayals). LeBlanc is called “the Deceiver”. Zyra and Elise also fit the seductive femme fatale theme: Elise is a spider-woman, and spiders are a major archetype for luring and ensnaring. Zyra ensnares with vines and thorns.

          Note that LoL’s female characters that aren’t femme fatales aren’t nearly so sexualized: Kayle, Lux, Diana, Quinn, Leona, Riven, Lissandra. etc.

    • laddyman says:

      Sweet, my shipment of circlejerk has arrived!

  3. porps says:

    maybe they purposefully make the default models scantily clad so that the few people who think this matters in the slightest will buy skins for them to cover them. its just a game, and its fun wether the champions are wearing a burka or a bikini.

  4. Lemming says:

    A”before” picture would’ve been handy for those of use that don’t really care about LoL.

    • Teovald says:

      I googled around, apparently she was in chain bikini. As an Ice warrior. What the actual fuck ?

    • Ricc says:

      This is her current artwork.

      • Ultra Superior says:

        Perhaps the boar emanates unbearable heat ?

        What concerns me more is the mass of the flail. It makes no sens whatsoever for any human-sized warrior to use flail thats 100x bigger and heavier than the worst prison ball & chain.

        • SkittleDiddler says:

          Now that you mention it, that flail is biased against historically accurate representations of medieval hand weapons, and I am deeply offended by it. I demand a redesign immediately!

        • Grey Poupon says:

          What if it’s made of a lighter substance than iron or steel. Like plastic foam. Judging from her physique it’s the boar doing all the work anyway.

          • b0rsuk says:

            Then it’s a waste, because it suffers more air resistance with the same weight.

          • CptPlanet says:

            What if there is no air resistance in Runeterra? Now shut the fuck up.

        • monkeybars says:

          No flails are going to be offended or turned off by a massive flail. Some players may be turned off or turned away by the overt, ridiculous sexuality in a combat game.

        • KDR_11k says:

          That’s a concession to the top-down perspective, just like the bulky WK40k designs and such: They’re meant to be easily recognizable at a distance.

        • Dances to Podcasts says:


        • The Greatness says:

          Or maybe Riot just like boobs?

  5. Fred S. says:

    Hooray, another victory for the Progressive Prudery Police.

    • Curry the Great says:

      I thnk that’s exaggarating. It’s a simple, small change that most of all makes SENSE in the context of the character. Disregarding all gender-equality stuff, having warrior-women in bikini armor always strikes me as weird and dumb.

    • Asurmen says:

      Less prudery police, more she comes from the frozen north and wore nothing. Sense much?

      Complaining about Karma though is ridiculous. She now shows her shoulders, a bit of her arms and a leg = disrobing? That’s stretching. Not only that but anyone who already owns Karma gets a modified version of the old skin where she’s completely covered. Meanwhile, no one complains about Lee Sin.

      • Sian says:

        Well, old Karma wears a robe, new Karma doesn’t. It’s what we like to call a pune, or play on words, this time even indicated by the word “literal”. Mr Grayson even concedes that her new looks are internally consistent and that he doesn’t want everyone to be covered in layer upon layer of cloth/leather/metal.

        • Asurmen says:

          I know what a pun is, but given the context of the sentence he’s talking about the fact she is now wearing less than she did before, in opposite of Sejuani’s change. The following sentences aren’t taking about Karma.

      • KDR_11k says:

        To be fair people from really cold areas tend to be more tolerant towards cold so when they move to warmer areas they may end up having to dress much lighter than the natives because their body has adjusted to much lower temperatures. I’m reminded of tales of Siberian Russians sitting in their underwear because the temperatures have reached -10°C.

        • Dances to Podcasts says:

          I’ve actually noticed the opposite. People from the British Isles seems to have a habit of walking around in (football-)shirts or short skirts in winter while most of my continental and Scandinavian friends tend to wear actual winter clothes.

      • Smoky_the_Bear says:

        :-O Lee Sin is blind, HE doesn’t know what he looks like, you are being discriminatory towards blind people!
        Varus on the other hand is a shirtless nancy boy.

      • Lone Gunman says:

        The game is about a load of fantastical heroes fighting it out over and over again flinging giant fire balls at each other and re spawn after death. Make sense much?

        This argument that you shouldn’t have scantly dressed Norse character is just garbage. It is fantasy. Look at this depiction of Thor.

        link to

        The fact that someone can wear next to nothing in freezing temperatures emphasizes their toughness.

        I would say there is reason to design more female characters that are not in the softcore porn territory just to balance it up a bit.

    • Mordsung says:

      It has nothing to do with prudery, it has to do with wanting to play games that portray women realistically.

      If I have a heavily armored nordic warrior woman, I want her to be wearing armor that would actually protect her.

      To have her in a chainmail bikini is just groan-inducingly stupid.

      If the only way you can produce allure is midriff and cleavage, you suck at art design.

      • Fred S. says:

        It’s cartoon art in a cartoon game about cartoon superheroes. Realism is a feeble excuse.

        • Mordsung says:

          No it’s not, because you still expect realism within the confines of the fantastic.

          We as humans expect our fantasy to still confine to certain rules. Sometimes additional rules are added like magic, but those rules still follow an invented set of laws.

          If a person walks off a cliff in any game or real life, we expect them to fall. In a fantasy situation they may have a spell, or wings, or something to prevent that fall but they prevent the fall by the addition of perfectly logical fantastical things.

          A fantastic world must still confine to a set of rules that make sense else the reader or viewer of that world loses the ability to become immersed in that world.

          This is writing and world construction 101.

          A group of barbarians from the North are going to wear furs and armor appropriate for the North. If they do not, this assaults the suspension of disbelief which is CRUCIAL for the enjoyment of fiction.

          Logical consistency within a fictional world is a completely valid line of argument to anyone with even the smallest amount of experience in writing and world design.

          • Fred S. says:

            “…calling out people who see women exclusively as chainmail bikini stands is important”

            Yeah, it’s all about internal consistency. Right.

          • Mordsung says:

            Because using female characters as nothing but chainmail bikini stands breaks the internal consistency of a world where swords cut flesh.

            Let me guess, you played one of those cat girls lolitas in Tera?

            It’s time to evolve a little bit dude, it’s 2013, it’s time to equalize the sexualization of the genders and I’d personally prefer we desexualize women instead of hypersexualizing men.

        • Curry the Great says:

          I understand that, and I see your point. It might just be magic bikini armor that protects properly and provides heat. I personally enjoy, and consider tasteful, armor and weapons that make more realistic sense even in games where there is magic or unrealistic settings. I like it when the designers manage to blend practicality and coolness, and I think it’s boring if the design is only over-the-top- or sexiness. Does anyone really appreciate the sexy armor?

        • Tyrone Slothrop. says:

          It’s called “internal consistency” and even some of the most ostensibly absurd settings and concepts still strive for it, just because Bioshock: Infinite features a floating city doesn’t mean the citizens revert into children in a kart racing game.

          • InternetBatman says:

            Why not? That could be a very interesting cart racing game.

        • Asurmen says:

          I know what, why don’t we design characters that walk on their heads with their legs floating in the air? After all, realism isn’t relevant. Realism and internal logic aren’t necessarily the same thing. We expect cold things to be cold, and we’d expect people to dress accordingly. Suspending your disbelief for fantastic elements is easy, harder to do when it’s something we know and understand.

        • Feferuco says:

          I think some people do lose sight of what’s the whole point here and end up indeed acting like prudery police.

          The point is that female characters are often depicted as young, attractive and not rarely in revealing outfits, even when it doesn’t make sense. What makes it a problem isn’t any single instance but how this is a trend. For me, this sends the message that for women, first come looks, second comes whatever else they have going for them. This is a problem for a number of reasons which I won’t get into right now.

          Because really, even if one’s not to care about that, it still kinda sucks because of how repeatitive the designs get. How many times have you seen a big boobed warrior in bikini armor? This is like bald space marines. Diversity for the sake of originality I believe is enough to convince anyone.

          And I’m not saying that the designs need to make perfect sense, neither that it’s bad to have a female character designed around sex appeal, I’m just saying we’d all benefit from more unique characters. Just look at how male characters are designed.

          You have the pretty boys and the shirtless muscle guys, but you also have monsters, skeletons, deformed dudes, old dudes. Dudes looking furious, weird, dignified, wise. Wheras for female characters it is (mostly) hot or cute.

          The range for female characters across most games is very limited, this is the problem.

          So it is nice if a female character has a sensible redesign. A nice step forwards would be a female AND male characters that truly steps out of the boundries set for them.

          • El_Emmental says:

            Exactly, the main issue is how they’re using the same stereotypes/”stock” characters over and over again, and when it’s the same thing repeated in almost every single game, it greatly influences how people see themselves and others, even backfire at the entertainment industry: if your characters aren’t the same overused characters, you scare most of your audience away.

        • El_Emmental says:

          I miss the days when “cartoon” didn’t meant “big boobs and big ass” splattered all over the screen, with impossible postures showing the cleavage *and* the lady’s bottom at the same time.

          You can make a character sexy without putting it in the same old ‘californian’ bikini – the bikini armor is the equivalent of the “Hooters” booth babes in conventions, the company is not even trying : “bah, let’s throw some boobs on their faces, they’ll like it anyway”.

          It’s not only disrespectful for women in general, it’s also showing total disrespect toward the customers/audience, considerating them as stupid idiots who can’t understand any form of subtlety when evocating erotism, desire and sexuality.

          • Grape says:

            It’s not only disrespectful for women in general, it’s also showing total disrespect toward the customers/audience, considerating them as stupid idiots who can’t understand any form of subtlety when evocating erotism, desire and sexuality.

            This. So much this.

    • Tyrone Slothrop. says:

      Those sickening authoritarian neo-nazis! Persuasively and non-bindingly suggesting that a person wouldn’t be wearing a bikini in lethally cold temperatures! Now you will never see a woman’s body Mr. S! The sheer mendacity!

      • nanowired says:

        Yea! it’s not like this game takes place in a mystical fantasy realm where there are gnomes and a woman who turns into a dragon or anything. Let us keep our imagination limited to only things we find in this world.

        She’d be less offensive if she didn’t ride the boar.

    • Gap Gen says:

      In case you didn’t know, if you type “porn” into the internet you can get a whole bunch of pictures of naked people of all genders, colours, ages, etc. Just in case you were worried that your primary source of partial nudity was being shut off.

      • Llewyn says:

        Just to clarify for anyone who might need to try this and isn’t especially bright (Hi Fred!) it’s generally better to open a new tab in your browser specifically for this purpose. Merely typing ‘porn’ into whatever you’re doing might not work, especially if it’s an email to a customer/HR department/parents.

        • Gap Gen says:

          If porn has taught me anything, it’s that it absolutely will work.

    • Apocalypse says:

      The sexism and the prudery police are two very different departments, actually they are fighting each other constantly because they are aiming at opposite things on many subjects.

      No shame on you for mistaken this, there are many people that spreading the rumor that those two are related to each other, you must have picked this somewhere up on accident. Glad I could enlighten you.

      • Berzee says:

        I am apparently this prudery police though, and it’s nice when I find incidental allies on certain subjects. (Those allies then tend to wander away making inappropriate jokes, but I don’t want to appear ungrateful for our briefly cooperative endeavors :P).

      • Jenks says:

        Obviously the prudery police were fighting for less clothing on this character, this must be a bitter pill for them to swallow, another loss to their bitter rival sexism police.

        • Grape says:

          In case you didn’t know, if you type “porn” into the internet you can get a whole bunch of pictures of naked people of all genders, colours, ages, etc. Just in case you were worried that your primary source of partial nudity was being shut off.

          This has got fuck-all to do about merely wanting to see naked chicks, and you know this.

  6. RedViv says:

    They are improving constantly. I like that. Sexy isn’t bad, and serves some characters, but “ice-themed warrior princess on boar in bikini” was just really silly, and clashed heavily with what they a short time later broadcast as the new goal for character designs.
    The new Ice Witch champion is quite the contrast. Positively haunting and recognisably Ice-Witch-y. Dare I say… Cool?

    • Sian says:

      I don’t know. The B-52 on her head doesn’t really broadcast coolness – it looks pretty silly to me.

    • Apocalypse says:

      Warriors and Bikinis in general are silly, but yeah sexy is good, if context is right.

  7. cauldron says:

    If the burka replace the chainmail bikini, I’m not sure women will benefit from it.

    • RaveTurned says:

      Sorry, where in the picture is there a burka? I only see armour, which for a warrior character is entirely appropriate.

    • Strabo says:

      Shirts and trousers: Repressing women since 3600 BCE. Odd that once women are threatened to be clad into sensible clothing people raise fear of the Burkha. As if the chainmail bikini was the empowering piece of clothing women always wanted, and there are only these two extremes possible: Empowering buttcrack-metal or repessive full-body-condom.

      • cauldron says:

        You’re right of course, my previous post was an atrocious exaggeration.

    • Gap Gen says:

      Yes, it’s interesting, the culture clash between modern Western control of women through advertising that promotes them as entities primarily to be looked at (compare the number of people commenting on someone’s appearance on Facebook photos if they’re female as opposed to male, for example), and the conservative view that women should be innocent and chaste, and hide or deny their sexuality.

      Both of them are still based on traditional lie that women are/should be passive acceptors of male sexual impulses, and both to a certain extent adopt the lie that they are about female emancipation (modern advertising suggesting that making women into sex objects is liberating as they get to choose the men swarming over them, the hijab because it protects the “modesty” of women to prevent men swarming all over them). I suspect that women will eventually climb out of their social role as passive acceptors of male advances, but this will take a long time and there will still be traditionalists of both genders who resist the liberalisation of society. Plus there are still physiological differences between the sexes (primarily physical strength), which will have to be controlled by social and legal sanctions against physical violence.

  8. Koozer says:

    In other news: they ruined Karma :(

    • InternetBatman says:

      It’s okay, there’s always Sona.

    • mickygor says:

      Yep :( screw fun, it’s all about the balance! There was no support like Karma D:

      • TsunamiWombat says:

        Karma is a terrible support now, I don’t know why they tried to sell her as anything but a mid lane utility mage. She lacks a direct heal of any kind and her shield lacks the staying power Janna could offer.

        In my opinion, the only real current supports are Sona, Soraka, Janna, Nami, and Lulu (though Lulu and Janna can both be played as Attack Damage Carries and Ability Power Carries, respectively)

        • InternetBatman says:

          I haven’t played in a while, is Taric still usable / the same?

          • darkChozo says:

            Taric is quite good right now, to the point where he’s part of the oh-so-exclusive group of champions that people in the community consider to be unbalanced.

          • Smoky_the_Bear says:

            Taric is fine still as is Alistar and they are tankier than the other supports the dude listed.

          • Smoky_the_Bear says:

            Yeah Taric is quite OP, also need to add Alistar, Blitzcrank and Thresh to that list of supports tbh.

    • Methodric says:

      I have yet to see anyone play her properly.. I have, and she wrecks. She has fantastic support kit. Not all supports need a heal. Karma’s got a strong shield on low CD, a slow, that can turn into a stun, and a second aoe slow.. with some half decent runes/items you can build her cdr down to a point you get a mantra every 5-10 seconds. In team fights I’m essentially the play maker with two slows, and a shield. People need to learn to play new things, instead of trying to play new things old ways.

      She’s just sadly like the old karma, relies on the ADC to know/understand her kit, and use it properly. I have yet to play with an adc that actually dives when I have shield up. She’s new and people don’t “get her” yet. I don’t think she’s tat viable mid, but you could say the same about elise or zyra.

  9. lordcooper says:

    I wish I had so few problems I could care about this stuff.

    • jedoran says:

      If you don’t care – don’t comment. No-one is forcing you to read this and no one want to hear how little something interests you.

      • lordcooper says:

        I also wish I could speak for everyone with such confidence.

        Also nobody forced you to read my comment.

        • Asurmen says:

          You might want to read the announcement by RPS recently. If you don’t care about something, don’t post. Simples.

        • Metalfish says:

          Nobody forced me to reply, apart from the voices in me ‘ead.

          • Dances to Podcasts says:

            And me. I’m leaning over his should holding a a magnet wondering how he can even type with those little metal fins.

    • The Godzilla Hunter says:

      I remember reading a great comment in response to a “I don’t actually care about this” comment.

      It went something like this:

      “I have this evil monster underneath my desk that forces me to read and respond to *all* posts. If I don’t, it starts killing my loved ones, one for every article I don’t read and comment on.

      I don’t know why you don’t just skip them, though.”

    • Fluka says:

      If only human beings possessed the ability to care about more than one thing at once! Let alone both big and little things!

  10. Tei says:

    I am all for interesting choices. Zoey from L4D was interesting. A almost naked women warrior can be interesting too. The greeks used to have the Amazons, is not even a new idea, and will outlast videogames. Scandly clad women warriors is a idea that will last longer than he videogames idea.

    • Strabo says:

      Nothing against scantly clad female or male warriors – if it fits the design. Ice warrior is probably not one where it fits. Same with topless Northern Barbarian dude. Or desert dweller. Jungle warrior, southern steppe nomad on the other hand – sure, appropriate.

      • RedViv says:

        Indeed. It is consistency and integrity that we look for. Words like “realism” only drag the debate into a weird standstill. For example, the topless buff barbarian might work if you give him some kind of battlerage theme, and only depict him in battle like that.

    • Gap Gen says:

      The Greeks depicted warriors as naked because fighting without armour is more hardcore, but sure, in reality they didn’t go into battle wearing nothing but a smile and their soon-to-be-severed privates. Also classical Athens probably had worse women’s rights than modern Afghanistan, so it’s not a great model for liberal society.

  11. zeroskill says:

    I would also like them to remove all signs of masculinity from all male characters because that makes me feel insecure.

    “League of Legends is notorious for a lot of things: a steep yet rewarding learning curve”

    Ha! Well at least RPS has found its sense of humor again.

    • Asurmen says:

      If you come from a background with no MOBA experience then yeah, it does have a steep learning curve. That’s not to say there isn’t steeper ones though.

  12. Ultramegazord says:

    LoL’s art direction was and still is terrible, it’s a messy soup of non related aesthetics.

  13. NyuBomber says:

    More points towards internal logic for the re-design: The other currently existing female tank (according to Riot’s keywords), Leona, who is decked in armor.

    (I was going to throw in Poppy, but Poppy is way more offensive (in a tactical sense), which I still find odd considering the mace and shield. Give her a big two-hand weapon, danggit!)

    And just yesterday they debuted who I think is the most interestingly-designed character in the whole game, Lissandra, whose design eschews sexy in favor of foreboding creepiness.

  14. maximiZe says:

    I don’t see it alienating people at all. Riot obviously has the data whether or not a champion sells, based on this they’ve announced some time ago that they’d cut back on their at least somewhat creative designs from the early days and since then they’ve been putting out one badass fighter guy/young big-boobed scantily clad girl after another.
    This stuff doesn’t alienate people. It resonates perfectly with the game’s target audience.

    • GiantPotato says:

      “Catering to a target audience” and “alienating people” describe the same process from different points of view.

      Anyway, if LoL wants to get rid of its reputation for being a trash-talking hellhole then it needs to expand its reach a little past the demographic that makes their current designs so popular. I see these two issues as related.

      • maximiZe says:

        Fair point, but considering the game’s continued, outrageous success catering to the group of players Riot has already identified as profitable probably pays off more than making a complete turnaround out of nowhere. As long as there are dozens of sexy anime-ish potential waifus in the game the alienation issue will persist.

      • Ricc says:

        That’s actually a really good point. Silly character skins like the chainmail bikini (or Evelynn’s S&M gear) are actively contributing to a hostile online experience. That’s not just alienating women, it’s alienating everybody who would like to play public games with nice people and not just a teenage boy audience. We are far from that being possible, atm.

        • maximiZe says:

          You can’t have only “nice people” in an online game of this size unless you a) find them first and add them to your friends list or b) start with actual or online friends in the first place. I don’t see the connection between this and incompetent art design, though.

      • RandomEsa says:

        Riot actually has made some research and found that champions that are most played are these either buffed looking humans or loosely dressed women with few exceptions ( teemo). I can’t find the redpost about the matter but a character like urgot isn’t played by the masses because he is ugly so for Riot it would only be logical to make more human male/female champions. There is also this gem

        Contrast to Dota 2 where ( according to dotabuff) the most played hero is pudge. While I think the fan-base is not so welcoming in either of games I doubt that it’s the negative view of these champions that cause huge outbursts of rage.

        I would also like to point out that the original design for Sejuani was completely ridiculous and if my memory serves me correct this new design looks a lot like the one Riot was promising before the champion’s release.

        • darkChozo says:

          If it helps, the top two heroes on Dotabuff right now are Pudge and Drow Ranger, who are, respectively, a moderately comical/memetic/whatever tank and a fairly skimpily dressed ranged autoattack carry. The top two champions on Lolking right now are Caitlyn and Taric, who are, respectively, a fairly skimpily dressed ranged autoattack carry and a moderately comical/memetic/whatever tank. Not that I think that represents anything (I’d imagine it has more with the characters being good/easyish/fun/whatever than anything else), but it amused me.

  15. porps says:

    since when did fantasy games need to make sense.

  16. kwyjibo says:

    “Yes, it’s fantasy.” – That’s the alienating part.

    The only ones that give a shit about how characters are dressed are the ones that pay for digital hats.

  17. GiantPotato says:

    While I support the message you are trying to convey here, I wish you guys would take some time and put up a proper editorial instead of letting this invective slip into every other post. You are lecturing your entire readership in these articles, not just the portion of it you are angry with.

  18. Dowson says:

    Do the questionable design choices around LoL female heroes really put people off?

    I mean, I’m pretty sure it has a much higher proportion if female players than DotA or DotA 2.

    • Hoaxfish says:

      I think it’s not the design of a single character, but that their design is so repetitive most of the characters have problems being visually distinct from a bunch of other ones.

    • Berzee says:

      It stopped me from playing it much, personally. There are lots of good games to play in this world, and games that feature lots of drawings of mostly-naked people get bumped very far down (off) my priority list unless the graphics are easily moddable (and an online competitive game like LoL isn’t likely to be easily moddable =).

      I have my own reasons, but I can imagine that even a lot of people who wouldn’t mind for themselves might still want to implement game-wardrobe guidelines because of perceived family-friendliness or the wishes / preferences of others in the vicinity.

      • Grape says:

        It stopped me from playing it much, personally. There are lots of good games to play in this world, and games that feature lots of drawings of mostly-naked people get bumped very far down (off) my priority list unless the graphics are easily moddable (and an online competitive game like LoL isn’t likely to be easily moddable =).

        I have my own reasons, but I can imagine that even a lot of people who wouldn’t mind for themselves might still want to implement game-wardrobe guidelines because of perceived family-friendliness or the wishes / preferences of others in the vicinity.

        Berzee, I’ve looked at the bizarre website/blog-thing you’ve got going on, and can say with complete honesty that the fact that people like you actually exist, terrifies and infuriates me in equal measure. If there’s ANYONE who has disqualified themselves completely from being taken seriously in ANY discussion on the matter of sex and sexuality, it’s YOU. Berzee.

        • Berzee says:

          Regardless, if the question is “Do the questionable design choices around LoL female heroes really put people off?”, which the question *is* — I am very qualified to answer that one in the autobiographical affirmative. =)

          The bizzare website — do you mean the modesty mods collection, or the primarily Wizardry VI blog, or some other endeavor I’ve forgotten about? I am super curious which of my creations has inspired such wrath and fear.

    • PikaBot says:

      It certainly puts me off as a straight male. The designs in LoL were so juvenile and pandering that I couldn’t help feeling embarrassed whenever I saw them.

      With a better aesthetic I’d…well, frankly, I’d probably still not be playing LoL because it was just a stopgap until I got my DOTA 2 invite, but I’d certainly have been more likely to stick with it.

  19. Kinth says:

    it’s odd because I’m a straight man and the way they design females characters actually makes me not want to play them, despite the fact their looks are designed to appeal to me.

    First off I fucking hate being pandered too. This idea that I will buy a character based on the facts that she has big tits and a ton of skin showing is ridiculous (Yet I know some morons actually do buy champions based on exactly that)

    Secondly I’m not attracted to virtual objects at all.

    There are actually a fair few covered up female champions in LoL they are just overwhelmed by how daftly under dressed and erotically charged the rest of them are.

    • Berzee says:

      That’s a good point. In a F2P game where you can buy characters separately, it does exceed the usual tastelessness and risk straying into “insulting to the shopper” territory. =T

    • Jamesworkshop says:

      It’s overkill, i already find women attractive

  20. Berzee says:

    “this stuff alienates people, and that’s a fact.”

    Truth! I am that people. (I played a lot of LoL when I first downloaded it but then stopped because even the loading screens were ridiculous.

    (I don’t have anything to add, aside from my lil’ complaint to the stew. Glad they decided to reconsider this character design though. Hopefully it bodes well for more clothe-y clothing, or at least options for such aesthetics, in the future).

    • colossalstrikepackage says:

      Agreed. I’d be genuinely interesting in playing a game with art designed from a feminine perspective. I wonder what that would look like.

      • Berzee says:

        Good question. I’m not up-to-date on who makes what art in games, for the most part, but I do remember hearing that Jen Zee did the paintings / art-direction for Bastion. I liked the art in that, though it’s rather too chibi (I am 30% sure I’m using that word in a partially correct fashion) to be a good comparison to something like this, though.

  21. DeFrank says:

    again with this…

  22. Jamesworkshop says:

    chainmail bikinis

    I thought the purpose of fantasy was that you didn’t need cliches when you can think up and explain away absolutely anything, like running on the spot to keep still, and then never mentioning it again.

    I do wonder how some people function in the real world when actual people, not digital puppets wear skimpy clothing.

    • Berzee says:

      We function much the same as normal, but take time to acquire skills like looking near people and around them when you feel it would be rude to look directly at them.

      Through years of intense mental discipline and training, we eventually gain the ability to have opinions about the goodness and badness of things while also retaining enough control so that we voice those opinions some times and in some ways (such as in the comments threads of articles about portrayals of immodesty in computer games) but not others (such as to a crowd of passing strangers on a muggy day at the county fair).

      I hope that this insider’s scoop has helped assuage your wonderment. :)

      • Jamesworkshop says:

        I see more terrified arm waving than opinion formulation/expression

        • Berzee says:

          In real life when people wear skimpy clothing, or in this comments thread?

          • Jamesworkshop says:

            created from whats written here gives an impression of that.

            Skin, run

          • Berzee says:

            Well, my own methods (as I explained above) are more related to strategic gaze-placement (my fingernails, a bit of wall in the distance, the sky) — but certainly some people might take a less sedentary approach by incorporate arm-flailing and decisive sprinting in their reactions.

            I worry such a response would be misconstrued and lead to feelings of insult in many cases, though, especially since you wouldn’t be around to explain your true intentions (fleeing over the horizon as you are). I would save it for direst circumstances.

          • Grape says:

            Well, my own methods (as I explained above) are more related to strategic gaze-placement (my fingernails, a bit of wall in the distance, the sky) — but certainly some people might take a less sedentary approach by incorporate arm-flailing and decisive sprinting in their reactions.

            I worry such a response would be misconstrued and lead to feelings of insult in many cases, though, especially since you wouldn’t be around to explain your true intentions (fleeing over the horizon as you are). I would save it for direst circumstances.

            God, you’re a fucked-up person, Berzee. I can not even begin to imagine what circumstances you were brought up in, but I pity you. You appear just genuinely broken and sexually dysfunctional.

          • Berzee says:

            Despite your entreaties I remain skeptical, Grape. So far I haven’t had any bad results with my general policy of trying to minimize (down to zero, ideally) the amount of time I spend observing a person with not many clothes on unless I am married to that person.

            But you seem to carry grave concerns about the psychological effects of this practice. O_O Do you think I can still be salvaged? As a friend, what would you recommend — a strict daily regimen of leering?

  23. Fox89 says:

    Nathan: “Well done riot for making this character less of a nonsensical sex object.”
    Comments: “They should have left her as a nonsensical sex object also sexism isn’t an issue in games.”

    Other comments: “*sigh, do we have to read this again?”

    The answer to that last one is no, you don’t, nor do you have to comment. I read Eurogamer and PC Gamer every day and there are usually only 3 or 4 articles in any dozen that actually interest me, the rest are about things I don’t care about. I don’t go onto every single one of those articles and say “Why are you posting about this I don’t care about it”, because that is dumb and also time I could be doing something I DO care about.

    Apologies if this has already been posted somewhere but I wanted to link this thing that I saw yesterday, showing some female comic characters if they had more…”winter-friendly” redesigns. And I really like them! I think this sort of thing just goes to prove (if it were needed) that you don’t need to rip all the chest and thigh fabric away to make female characters look awesome after all.

    Article: link to

  24. MellowKrogoth says:

    We can still see she has breasts and curvy hips. Outrageous! We shall not rest until she’s essentially wearing a box with holes for the eyes. Actually, that’d be a good way to save on the modeling budget :P .

  25. Jdorty says:

    Obviously doesn’t alienate too many people, they have like 32 millions downloads and 12 million players on average a day. Hell, they might even have fewer players if they hadn’t used cliched female character models from the start. Get off your high horse about everything being ‘sexist’. They can, and SHOULD, do whatever art style they want and believe will get them a bigger user base.

  26. FlyDungas says:

    This is the single worst thing to happen to video games. This is beyond prude. If her boobs were hanging out maybe I’d get it but this is just ridiculous. What organized group of fat women that hate their bodies is behind this movement? Why does nobody appreciate the famale form any longer? Like someone above said I don’t see them complaining about men being portraid as oily ripped muscle monster hunks with flowing locks in times they had no shampoo. I thought this site was based in Europe? Now Europe is America II full of prudes and puritanical nutjobs. Stop trying to shackle our humanity, let people run free. Stop being NAZIS

    People are become such little weaklings. Crying about getting their feelings hurt, running to some authority to give them payback. Whatever happened to growing a pair of balls? About dealing with things yourself huh?

    • DeFrank says:


    • Berzee says:

      1. What authority did people run to to make Riot change this? I thought it was something Riot just decided to do.

      2. As I run free, enjoying my unshackled humanity, is it alright with you if I use that freedom to ask game developers to give their characters modest clothing? I just want to ask if it’s alright because hoo boy, I don’t want to get a stern talking-to down the road.

      • potamus24 says:

        If you want modest clothing, then go to church. It’s simple, really. If you don’t like seeing half-naked women in video games, then don’t look at them. It really is as simple as that. Meanwhile, I’ll be enjoying said games.

        • Berzee says:

          But I like video games. D:
          (I like my church too, even though it is like a Modern Military Manshoot in that they’re always having other people open the door for you).

          • potamus24 says:

            If you like them so much, then stop trying to inject that horrible agenda onto them and simply enjoy them.

          • PikaBot says:

            Why is it ‘injecting an agenda’ to notice something that is already there and, frankly, pretty obvious?

          • Berzee says:

            Instead of doing your idea, I’m going to do the other thing, which is to play games (and sometimes not) and mod them (if I can) and *also* tell developers that I like it better when games have got modesty in. It’s gonna be awesome.

      • FlyDungas says:

        Its not about whether you personally want females in games to wear lots of clothes, its you telling developers to force it upon everyone else. I’m all for client side mods made specially for prude church going folk, but I for one enjoy seeing beautiful women running around and slaying dragons in my games. I honestly can’t get too rational on this subject, I cannot fathom why someone would find a scantily clad woman offensive. Do you hate women? Or just the way they look? Do you think its the tempting work of the devil? Sex just like drugs and violence are parts of life and I don’t understand anyone who wants to snuff them out and pretend they don’t exist. Freedom doesn’t really count as freedom if you’re using it to impede on that of others. Another stupid attitude that comes straight out of the USA. I want the freedom to do anything I want including keeping others from doing what they want. What.

        • Berzee says:

          Of the two of us, I am the only one who hasn’t told people to shut up and stop talking about their desires and preferences in a topical Internet comments thread, so I am the one who can justifiably say “Don’t try to cram your morality down my throat, chump. I’ll comment whatever dang comment I want.” =P

          But mostly, I’ll just keep rattling on, hoping a developer or publisher notices, that there’s lots more games I would pay for if they just had more clothes in. Admittedly, the financial benefit of this is balanced by the apparent fact that they might gain my business at the expense of yours if they opt for knee-length skirts.

          (Someday, someone will devise a miraculous technology to display different pictures on different screens based on a list of “Options”, and then neither of us will need to suffer).

        • Berzee says:

          Also, I was going to explain again why I don’t want pictures ladies with not many clothes on in my games, and it’s nothing to do with “offensive”, but I decided not to because I think that’s really a minor tangential issue here. It’s been eclipsed by the question of what personal consumer standards I am allowed to express before I become an Enemy Of Freedom.

          Also because this thread is old and this comment might never get read anyway. =P

    • PikaBot says:

      You certainly seem upset at the prospect of female characters who are not there to give you a boner existing.

      • potamus24 says:

        I’m upset at the fact that you want to change something that doesn’t need changing. You want an entire industry to change overnight just because a few feminists complained that they weren’t being represented. They’re not being represented because up until 2 or 3 years ago, females wouldn’t openly admit to playing video games.

        Now that being a “nerd” is “in,” every single girl wants in on the video games. Sure, a good number are actually passionate about games, and I know a few, but even they don’t bitch that “women are underrepresented.” They don’t give a fuck who makes the games, or how the females in them are dressed, all they care about is if the game’s good. The only ones actually making noise about this horrible non-issue are the attention-whoring feminists. Not even actual, legitimate feminists care about this.

        • PikaBot says:

          And with attitudes like yours, I can’t imagine why women wouldn’t have felt comfortable in the gaming community. Yes, those women certainly are simple pawns in the hands of what is cool and fashionable – unlike us men, who make our own decisions, right?

          I don’t expect something as large and non-monolithic as the gaming industry to change overnight, but until it does change to stop being so shitty to it’s women – real and fictional alike – I will continue to point out where it does.

          Just because you, personally, enjoy the status quo does not mean the status quo does not have problems or need to be changed. I would like to refer you to David Gaider’s words on the subject of privilege (he’s kind of shit as a writer but he does understand these issues)

        • Berzee says:

          Since you asked: for me, this isn’t about a gender being “under-represented” in gaming. This is good old-fashioned tried-and-true centuries-tested “Clothes: Everyone Should Wear A Full Set” opining over here.

          Wait, you told me that if I wanted to see modest clothes I should go to church. But you also say here that “some feminists” are the only people who care about this. Wouldn’t the modest church people care about it too? Either you must think that people who go to church don’t ever play games, or you must think that churches are secretly feminist meeting halls. Either of these is an imaginative and compelling notion.

  27. Berzee says:

    (oops, reply fail)

  28. Fred S. says:

    And then there are real women putting on a real protest for real reasons. More power to them.
    I denounce myself for looking with less than perfectly sexless revolutionary fervor:

    link to

    • Kevin says:

      I suppose it’s no coincidence after reading this for my daily RPS fix I went straight to the Atlantic website for my daily update on world affairs and saw that photo-reel. For those that don’t read the Atlantic, the site is worth visiting at least every 2 or 3 days for their outstanding photo-reels.

    • iPhap says:

      I like how they [Femen] acts violently towards women in their protests. That’s how you differentiate yourself from reasonable rallies and civil rights movements–you shove women you dislike.

    • Bhazor says:

      Have to say protests like this probably do more harm than good.
      It’s like the PETA red paint thing, yes it gets headlines but the protest ends up over shadowing whatever point you were trying to make. People talk about you dumping paint over a supermodel, they don’t talk about the fur trade. In this article the actual reason for the protest barely even gets mentioned.

      It also leads to tighter security making larger more effective demonstrations harder to schedule.

  29. clownst0pper says:

    Is DOTA 2 more popular than LOL? I have no idea?:-\

    • darkChozo says:

      Riot claims that they have a daily average of 3 million peak concurrent players (source, from Oct 2012). DotA has a peak of ~270,000 players today, I believe that their average is higher but does not break the million mark (source, plus my own supposition).

      • Malibu Stacey says:

        I would take those stats from Riot with a pinch of salt. VALVe have always had real time stats available for all games on Steam while Riot publish theirs when it’s useful for PR.

        • darkChozo says:

          Ultimately, both Valve and Riot are providing self-reported, unaudited statistics on their own player counts. You can trust one company over another for whatever reason, but there’s not really any objective reason to say one stat is reliable and the other isn’t (which is to say either is fairly suspect to begin with).

          Well, that’s not totally true, you could perhaps try to see if Valves’ other statistics match up with what devs/publishers say. Even then, there’s implicit trust in the fact that Valve isn’t modifying their own stats preferentially (not that I think that they are).

  30. Shepardus says:

    Please tell me I’m not the only one who unlocks champions for their skillsets regardless of their looks. I do welcome Sejuani’s visual redesign though (haven’t looked much at the gameplay changes); it fits her role more and simply has better visual consistency.

  31. belgand says:

    Actually it’s the “shamelessly exposed” line that bothers me. Sure, this is a more realistic clothing/armor choice, but don’t conflate that with the idea that it’s shameful for a woman to dress provocatively. It’s all a bit complicated in this case because there is no actual woman and that’s just how the character is designed, but if a female player prefers the sexy, impractical design she should certainly be allowed to do so and shouldn’t be subjected to prudish and antiquated ideas about sexuality as a result.

    Not forcing someone to be sexualized also has the flip side that they have every right to embrace and flaunt their sexuality if they want to.

  32. IndigoHawk says:

    Her outfit still has too much exposed skin along her face, neck, and down to her cleavage. They should have given her a scarf, covered all of her exposed skin, and maybe even goggles of some kind, if she’s going to be out in that kind of environment.

    Why say “thank you” for being pandered to in a different way? LoL fell short of fixing the problem, and went for a “tough but sexy” look that still isn’t realistic. If people don’t want women to be sexualized, then this outfit change doesn’t solve the problem.

  33. Daniel Klein says:

    As one of the two game designers involved in this remake (Meddler is the far more experienced designer who did most of the heavy lifting and the tough decisions) I’m very glad to see this picked up here. We’ve spun up a reworks team and have a huge backlog of legacy champs we want to show some love to. Wait until you see Sejuani’s new animations and VFX in game as well. We have some super talented men and women working on this stuff.

    A little more sublte is the fact that we also tried to reflect her tanky, takes-no-shit warrior nature in the mechanical design a little more. The boar charge now knocks the first enemy champion back a short distance, and while that does add power, mostly we did it to make it actually FEEL like you’re on a giant boar, stampeding down on dudes.

    We’ve spoken to Bristle about pants, but his only reply was to gore us with his tusks.