Even EVE’s Lead Designer Has Left For LoL

Riots have a way of enveloping, possessing, and changing even the most unlikely of passersby, and so too does Riot Games. The League of Legends developer has expanded its more-than-a-thousand-deep talent pool to the point of near-ludicrousness, hungrily slurping up the best and brightest from games and other media alike. The latest? Why, none other than EVE Online lead designer Kristoffer Touborg, that most Borgiest of Tous. Strikes me as a bit of an odd fit, but anyone who can build a universe for EVE’s endlessly intrigue-starved legions must know a thing or two about making good online games. So off he goes.

Touborg explained the change of scenery in a Facebook post, bidding a heartfelt farewell to CCP in the process:

“You can’t do the same thing forever and I feel like after more than five years, it’s time to try something new. So I’m packing my bags again and moving to Dublin, where I’ll be joining Riot games to work on League of Legends.”

“I feel a bit lucky that I get to work on not just one of my favorite games, but two of them. I don’t think I could have asked for anything more and it’s pretty humbling to go from one love to another. A few years ago, my overwhelming interest was the EVE universe; now it’s League of Legends and the competitive scene there. To everyone at CCP, it’s been wonderful and I would happily do it all over again. To everyone at Riot, I’ll see you soon.”

What this means for both games is anyone’s guess at this point, but it’s pretty clear evidence that Riot will eventually HIRE THE WORLD. Also, while EVE is held aloft on the shimmering, deity-like shoulders of a very large team, lead designer’s a pretty huge role to vacate. I doubt it’ll cause any seismic shift in the game’s direction, but it could cause CCP to plot a different course in the long run.

So then, multi-year political battles rife with subterfuge and backstabbery confirmed for LoL? We can only hope.


  1. DigitalParadox says:

    “You can’t do the same thing forever”

    Riot doesn’t seem to have any problem with that

    • Xocrates says:

      I know this is a joke, but this bothers me far more than it should.

      You do realize LoL isn’t out for so long that you can say Riot is been doing it for forever right? Blizzard spent longer just on WoW, as did CCP on EvE.

      • DrGonzo says:

        It’s also quite unique for a dota like. It even has more than one map! *GASP*

        • misterT0AST says:

          They had to add game modes, because the standard map with its crystalized meta of solo top, mid, jungler, carry, support is incredibly samey. They really should do something to break their own meta or at least spice things up. They can’t keep adding in champions that are all balanced in 1v1 combat and fill their role just as well as eachother. LoL needs a wisp, a nature’s prophet, an alchemist, a rikimaru, some heroes that actually treat the map and the time windows in a different way than the norm.

          • DerNebel says:

            The saddest part is that Riot actively protected said incredibly samey metagame when proteams found out that it was ineffective.

            Over a period of time it became very clear that one side in a dual side lane would have the disadvantage of not getting golems, thus hitting the huge powerspike at level 2 later, creating a huge timing window for the opponents. This created the really interesting dynamic of dual lanes, where a team would have to compare their ad-support to the opponent’s and making the judgement call of actively challenging or simply farming it out in a dotastyle safelane environment.

            This, in turn, opened up for dedicated “offlaners” in the vein of Nature’s Prophet or Clockwerk Goblin in Dota 2, heroes that could stay safe and still farm gold and experience versus a duallane.

            But, of course, such variety could not be introduced into Riot’s brainchild. If it did, all sorts of madness might happen! Lanes might loosen up, roles would become fuzzy and the entire spiel of releasing heroes dedicated for certain positions would seem rather silly. So they killed the level 1 advantage. Small camps now spawn after the first creepwave has passed, removing the natural lane advantage, and so solo queue went back to it’s normal, repetitive cycle of uninteresting lane duelling.

            It goes without saying that professional teams never stop pushing for more advantages to exploit versus their opponents, but if the payouts ever get too large, you can be sure it’ll be nerfed soon enough.

          • jrodman says:

            Small nitpick here. Metagame is the game that is played between games. That is, jockeying for victory in the game by changing how you play the game based on knowledge of how the game has played out in the past and is likely to be played out by your opponents.

            How many players show up in a lane is not metagame. Making decisions about it based on the deiciosn you expect from your opponent might be metagame.

            My point is just that when people say that the LoL “metagame” is static, they really mean that there isn’t a metagame at all.

          • malika018 says:

            as Anita said I am shocked that any one can get paid $5379 in four weeks on the internet. see this page link to goo.gl

      • Awesumo says:

        Lol has made more money than eve ever will… in the last 12 months alone.

        • alw says:

          [citation needed]

        • nitehawk says:

          Since when does “made more money” = “better game”? While publishers may think this way, I thought gamers just cared about quality? And on top of that, there is no universal metric on “good game”, anyhow. (though there are plenty of games that are universally considered bad… hmm)

          However from a “developer wants to make money” perspective… Touborg made a good move. From a “Ireland actually has a better economy than Iceland” perspective… well… this is surprisingly true.

      • borso says:


  2. Marinetastic says:

    The Dublin office? Odd, the Riot site says that’s for support and localisation

  3. Alexander says:

    Hire the entire world? I hope RPS goes into the black market, then.

  4. Fenix says:

    Too bad LoL, by principle, will always be inferior to DotA 2.

  5. dagudman says:

    How long will it take for people from LoL to leave for DotA 2?

    • DrGonzo says:

      Played them both, I much prefer LoL, in my opinion it’s a much better designed game. Dota 2 is so un-Valve it’s brutally disappointing for a Valve fan like myself.

      • dagudman says:

        Could you explain what a Valve game should be like?

        • Ringwraith says:

          That might be because it’s not a Valve game.
          It’s an old mod updated to a new engine with voice acting and hats (some very nice hats).

          • Headwuend says:

            Like Team Fortress 2? Like… another Valve game?

          • Ringwraith says:

            Except TF2 plays a lot differently to Team Fortress Classic.
            They’re barely related apart from some of the classes being broadly similar.

            DotA 2 is basically DotA ported to a new engine with balance tweaks. All the heroes still play the same.

        • nitehawk says:

          It should contain more plumbing.

      • borso says:

        Please tell me how can it be much better designed game, when everything that lol has copied over from dota. Even the heroes are hollow copies of the same heroes of dota. The skills, the so called “unique” summoner spells are dota spells / item effects. Everything is the same, just easier, made it less punishing, so the bigger casual environment can enjoy it better. That’s all.

        • hyzhenhok says:

          LoL is very well designed from a money-making and player-addiction standpoint in that it requires players to invest time and money to earn access to the “real” game by buying champions and masteries. Once a player has invested, he is loathe to move on to a competitor. He has a vested interest not only to keep playing LoL, but to believe that it’s the better game.

          The result is hilarious attempts to claim Dota 2 is seriously flawed or inferior to LoL that appear to be motivated by some form of gamer Stockholm Syndrome.

        • jezmabez says:

          LoL and Dota 2 may be of the same genre and LoL may be influenced in the original Dota, but they play like extremely different games. How different?

          Think LoL as Call of Duty. It’s fast, twitchy, streamlined. It doesn’t have the nuance of certain mechanics you’d find in Battlefield though.
          Think Dota 2 as Battlefield. It’s technical, intentional, pacier. It really doesn’t have that speed that you’d find in Call of Duty though.

          All arguments aside about which one is better because they are clearly designed with a different intention. They play like completely different games requiring different skills to be good in either. Both games are well polished and enjoyable as long as you leave the pretentious ‘skill’ attitude at the door.

    • Awesumo says:

      Dota 2 was afraid of making improvements on the original Dota, instead opting to see Dota 1 as an ivory tower of flawlessness… Which is why it is still slow and can harshly punish risk taking

      • Yosharian says:


      • jrodman says:

        Dota 2 made lots of improvements on dota 1. Most of them read like tightenings with the removal of the warcraft 3 limitations, but many are actual changes as well.

        They are conservative changes. It’s intended to be pretty much the same game.

        However, it’s not slow. That part is just false. At least not when compared to LoL. I’m sure you could make a multiplayer team game of the genre that typically plays out in 15-20 minutes, but I don’t think anyone has.

        High risks seem needed for making risk taking meaningful for me. But that part is a genuinely accurate part of dota2.

        • Fenix says:

          A couple of ex-colleagues that played Heroes of Newerth kept telling me the reason they chose it was that it was the fastest game of its genre. Not sure if 15-20 minutes fast, but I think close enough.

          • CASHMONEYDAD420 says:

            They could be talking about the faster turn rates, attack animations and projectiles of HoN, rather than the average match length. They make the game feel a lot more responsive than Dota 2, which can feel very sluggish in comparison.

      • dagudman says:

        I completely disagree, DotA 2 is a lot faster than the original. Many games in DotA 1 would go over 1 hour and a half, in DotA 2 games rarely get to 1 hour, and in tournaments I saw games finishing in 15-20 minutes. I would rather say that DotA 2 punishes mistakes, not risk taking. For example you could just not kill the enemies in the laning phase and that means that your enemies will be equal to you, or you could take the chance to kill them and if you succeed, then they will fall behind and you will be 1 step closer to winning. However if you get killed in the fight then it was your fault for choosing the wrong time to fight or for underestimating your opponents.

      • Aaax says:

        Having nearly 1000 hours in dota 2 I say don’t change anything, I’m not even remotely tired of the game yet. Punishing risk-taking means it also highly rewards risk-taking, it goes both ways. If anyone wants different mechanics, make another game, but leave dota as it is.

      • JoeyAsagiri says:

        That is because dota 2 was meant to be dota 1, but in a new engine, allowing it to do things the old mod could not do cause of engine restrictions (like kunkka not being able to use quelling blade).

        Not because they are scared to do anything new, but because dota 1 is still a great game, if they where to change it allot people would just stay at dota 1.

    • Xocrates says:

      How long does it take to realize different people like different games?

      • dagudman says:

        I just said it as a joke to see how people would respond.

        • Xocrates says:

          Poe’s law, etc… etc…

          Seriously though, there are far too many people who would make that remark seriously for it to even register as a joke :P

  6. salena012 says:

    my co-worker’s mother makes $67/hr on the laptop. She has been out of a job for five months but last month her paycheck was $15348 just working on the laptop for a few hours. description>>>>>>>>>>link to goo.gl

  7. Wednesday says:

    WTF is going on with that woman in the middle?

    Are they hiring The Legion of Fourteen-Year-Old Boys as well?

    • Alexander says:

      There are a lot of youngsters playing these games. Haven’t you seen the concept art for them?

    • Don Reba says:

      Seems fine to me. Can you be more specific?

      • Wednesday says:

        She’s come to battle wearing a leather jacket and her tits.
        That is literally her lace bra you can see there.

        Do men who make games live in caves? Womanless caves?

        • danielfath says:

          No, but their players do :)

        • Don Reba says:

          The purple man to the left is wearing nothing at all, and the black dude to the right has three tonnes of armour on him. The girl seems much more practically dressed in comparison.

          Besides, can’t you see the beard the purple man is flailing about? There is no other reason for such a flagrant display of facial hair than raw sexual appeal to the feminine gender.

        • Asurmen says:

          Varus, Lee Sin, Ryze and Brand all say hi as they go into battle completely topless.

      • CASHMONEYDAD420 says:

        Not enough strong independent full bodied transwomen of colour wearing battle efficient armour.

        • Wednesday says:

          The last one, primarily.

          But come off it. This shit is puerile bollucks. It’s absolute fucking crap and we demean ourselves by considering it normal.

          Buuuuuut, you just go ahead and strawman anyone who says anything you disagree with. That way, facts will never invade your well defended idea space. Or whatever.

          • Jack_Dandy says:

            We should all be like Wednesday and act like proper “adults” (read: jerks) who detest the female body form

            in b4 Walker deletes my post

          • Xocrates says:

            @Jack_Dandy: LoL has about 115 champions, about a third are female (30-40), and with the exception of the 3 female yordles (read: gnomes), and Annie (who’s a child) they all have the same exact body shape, give or take the boob size. This includes the insects, the plants, and the fish.

            “female body form” takes a rather literal meaning in this case.

    • swimming anime says:

      Another reason to play dota 2– not such blatant fanservice that it makes you uncomfortable playing any female characters

      • Kaira- says:

        Erm… yeah, about that…. QoP and Lina say anything? Or Drow?

        • bit_crusherrr says:

          To be fair QoP is a succubus if she wasn’t sexualised it wouldn’t fit in with what she is. It would be like making a bear look like a dog.

          As for “blatant fanservice” I fail to see how Katarina is fanservice.

          • Xocrates says:

            If you don’t consider Katarina fanservice, you have a very different definition of fanservice from most people.

          • bit_crusherrr says:

            Well she’s not exactly wearing skimpy clothes, she has battle scars. If you take into account her battle styles she requires mobility, if she did have mad armour it would impede movement. If they wanted to cover kat up at best they could put a t-shirt on her. Also bear in mind League Of Legends is moddable. If you want to make skins that cover up any characters you think are wearing unfitting clothes you can. The only really dumb thing I can think of to do with league of legends character design is when one of them said “hurr we need to put big boobs on so you can tell it’s a girl”. Windrunner doesn’t have massive baps and you can tell she’s a girl.

            But then again who am I to tell an artist what they can and can’t draw at the end of the day (especially when there is a way to not see what they have created like I said earlier in this ramble).

        • jrodman says:

          Yep, the dota2 women trend towards boobular as well.
          I have some mild hope that it’s going to get better as the LOL designers are aware of the problem and may be raising the bar a bit over time. At least on average.

          I don’t think we’re going to see the boobular pinups disappear anytime soon.

          • bit_crusherrr says:

            Well the average breast sise in the UK is 34DD…

            The character designs in DOTA for every hero is fine imo, it fits well and for neither genders does it appear exploitative in any way.

          • jrodman says:

            I think you are deliberately failing to understand the problem.

            The problem is not that the female characters have boobs. The problem is that across dozens of female characters, the vast majority have the entire focus point of their characters be the boobs themselves. Even if this isn’t the case in the models (it is), it’s completely the case in their 2d renders, depicting groups of heroes. For example, the lead-in image to this article.

          • bit_crusherrr says:

            People like seeing good looking people, if all the characters were average joes or looked sensible it wouldn’t have that appeal.

            The same thing happens on TV, the best example I can think of is an episode of house where some shut in awkward nerd has a sex doll he treats like an actual girl. Yet he was an attractive guy. The same with Arrow, the nerd computer girl is attractive. People respond better to attractive characters, that’s why pretty much all of riots new releases of champions are human, or feature some sort of attractive humanoid feature.

            Personally though I wish they had more stuff like Cho’Gath, I love playing as monsters.

          • jrodman says:

            Objectified is not attractive. Attractive is not objectified.

            There are many attractive women in this world who don’t stand in visual designs focused entirely on drawing attention to their breasts. And if they do, do they choose to present themselves that way? That’s their choice, not that of some decorative hand controlling them externally.

            I’m all for having attractive and sexy characters in games, of both genders please. I’m gay after all.
            I’m not for having most female characters be objectified.

            link to elephantjournal.com

          • bit_crusherrr says:

            So you want sexy but not objectified… That’s a pretty fine line to walk. Pretty much everything to do with female characters being “objectified” these days is any form of sexyness. Also the article you linked to back up your argument doesn’t really apply to video games, it’s more images and stuff, which basically makes it look like “ALL PINUP IMAGES ARE OBJECTIFICATION!”.

            I still think the best thing to do in these situations is rather than people demand things be changed to suit your views, just don’t play it (or mod it so it does). I’m all for kicking off when something is actually wrong but these days people seem far too touchy. I would like a few more characters like Hilde from Soul Calibur in games though… she by far has the coolest outfit even if it is full armour (Viola is a close second).

          • jrodman says:

            I don’t *want* sexy, I am just supportive of it.

            The article is about still images, but I was trying to get through to you that attractive != object. Obviously there are factors that are different in games, but typically the objectification is at its most blatant in all the concept art surrounding the game. Just like the one at the top of the page here.

            And no, it’s really *not* a fine line. You’re just not very familiar with the line.

            If you are willing to mock the article and the idea that objectification is not a valid thing to be avoided in general, then you either don’t understand the issue or you’re now knowingly supporting sexism. Maybe you should think about that.

          • Tasloi says:

            “Pretty much everything to do with female characters being objectified these days is any form of sexyness.”

            That’s not surprising considering the concept of objectification is at the core of sex-negative feminism. It’s important to note that even within feminism there are other voices who have a different or more nuanced view: positive objectification.

            I’ve always believed objectification is pretty much a natural given in general but that it’s a complex dynamic intertwined with things like love, respect, care, consent, etc. It’s a relatively rare occurence when this isn’t the case and it can actually be called harmful.

            Basically the concept of objectification is largely overblown and nowadays more (ab)used as a tool to police sexuality.

          • Premium User Badge

            zapatapon says:

            @jrodman This piece on elephantjournal that you link to is missing the point almost entirely. Objectification (or rather let’s say depersonalization) has been present in classical art tradition (pictural,sculptural,dance) for a long time, as a means to glorify the human body, transcending the person. The author sounds like she is giving her own list of dos and donts to pictural artists based on misconstrued moral grounds, which I find frankly chilling. (A lot of the comments there are pointing this out in reasonable terms.)

            What is morally abject is the demeaning of women. Systematic emphasis on boobs in video games is certainly demeaning. Objectification is reviled because most often, it implies demeaning, but focusing too narrowly and systematically on criticizing objectification seems misguided (though I’ll admit that in the context of video games, it is certainly deserved)

          • frightlever says:

            “Well the average breast sise in the UK is 34DD…”

            Average UK woman’s waist size in the UK, also 34 inches. Which would make for some atypical game characters.

            Personally I think de-sexifying male or female characters is a futile pursuit, flying in the face of an essential human drive. THX 1138 is not supposed to be aspirational.

          • jrodman says:

            Oh look, another deliberate conflation of exploitation and sexy.

            I’m sure most warriors in the middle of combat would choose to wear a leather jacket and lace bra. That’s also very much equivalent to a wolf who might or might not be male.

          • bit_crusherrr says:

            It’s not a lace bra: link to images1.wikia.nocookie.net

            Also “Driven by an intense killer instinct, Katarina uses her talents as an assassin for the glory of Noxus”

            What kind of assassin would run around looking like this: link to images3.wikia.nocookie.net

          • jrodman says:

            Sorry, a leather bra with frilled edges.

            I’m fully aware of Kayne, and referenced the positive trend above. But it’s a straw man to suggest that disapproval of leather push-up bras as combat armor means a requirement of full-covering plate.

            It’s a bit of a stretch of verisimilitude to really fully accept an assassin in a game where everyone shouts as they attack each other with spam attacks for 40 minutes, but if we can, surely an assassin would wear clothing that makes them less easy to spot, not more? Lower contrast for example. If she chooses to wear armor on her legs, why is her abdomen lacking even the barest amount of silk?

          • bit_crusherrr says:

            So something like this then? link to www11.onrpg.com

            Inb4 “whine whine skin tight catsuit”

      • jezmabez says:

        Sexualized women AND men are all too common in a traditional fantasy theme. If anything, it’s almost a convention brought down by the predecessors of its genre. The whole point of a ‘fantasy’ theme is that things are fantastical by nature, not just women, not just their sexual features but basically everything.

        Examples include:
        Exaggerated physical features, sexual features, weapons, abilities, settings.

        Instead of making this a critique on how Dota 2 is superior to League of Legends because they do not objectify women and other great sounding politically correct statements (of which exceptions still occur in Dota 2). There are much better questions to ask about the impact of gender roles on genres as whole. If anything, using the objectified women card is not anywhere near as relevant as many other features that could separate both games.

    • robotslave says:

      There’s a hoary old stereotype of gamers being almost all boys, none of whom have finished puberty entirely.

      Despite the mountains of demographic evidence to the contrary that have been compiled for the industry at large, this stereotype still reflects reality remarkably well, for League of Legends players.

    • Shadowcat says:

      She’s not alone — did you check out what the purple wolf is wearing?

    • Ringwraith says:

      Though at least they run the gamut of styles overall.
      Just it tends towards silly a bit too much.
      There’s more Zyras and Syndras compared to the Kayles and Leonas, though it’s edging towards the latter thankfully.

    • Nim says:

      I bet you’re the kind of guy who tells women to wear clothes deigned suitable according to your cultural beliefs, instead of allowing them to wear whatever the hell they want. This “demeaning ourselves” is just a bunch of moralistic bullshit.

      • jrodman says:

        What an amazing example of displacement.

        • Nim says:

          Hopefully followed by an example of explanation and elaboration.

          • jrodman says:

            When you’re making things up about people out of whole cloth because you don’t like what they said, there’s really no discussion merited.

          • Nim says:

            That is the person I see in my mind when I read his posts. Do you see matters differently?

          • jrodman says:

            Yes. I think I don’t know a lot about people who make posts online beyond the posts they make.
            I also think any impressions far beyond what they share is fundamentally obnoxious to speculate on out loud. Especially as a supposed response.

  8. RedViv says:

    Soon, they shall hire the world, and then political conflicts will be decided in the game set in a world where political conflicts are decided in a game!

    • DiamondDog says:

      Nick Clegg is such a feeder.

      • bit_crusherrr says:

        Nick Clegg is more like the guy who see’s shits about to go down and runs away and somehow ends up on the other team.

  9. thestjohn says:

    Wasn’t Touborg the chap who was very much in favour of micro-transactions in EVE in the leaked CCP internal newsletter back during the Incarna furore? If so RIOT is perhaps a good fit for him.

  10. pakoito says:

    Riot buying all the things. This is not news.

  11. buzzmong says:

    Excellent news.

    As someone who has been playing on and off since 2005, there’s been quite a few times I’ve disagreed with Soundwave’s decisions when he’s been at the helm.

    Incarna, the microtransactions and that he lied about important details regarding both of them are still bitter, plus the fact he’s a big alliance fan (being a Goon), meant alliances never recieved the nerf bat they need.

    That said, I’ll miss him always pushing that EVE is a PVP game and his understanding of that.

  12. Don Reba says:

    What this means for both games is anyone’s guess at this point, but it’s pretty clear evidence that Riot will eventually HIRE THE WORLD.

    Half the world. The other half will be hired by World of Tanks, obviously.

  13. PopeRatzo says:

    When the Chicago baseball teams are really really bad, as they are now, all the baseball talk turns to who’s in their minor league systems, what’s they’re payroll, who is the general manager and what’s his philosophy. Everything except what’s happening on the field because it’s so awful. If I wanted to talk about management philosophy and payrolls and new hires, I might as well be at work.

    That seems to be what’s happening in gaming now. This has been so far one of the worst years for gaming that I’ve ever seen, playing computer games for 30 years. It’s so awful that the best we can do is talk about who’s going to work for which developer and whose kickstarter is doing well or interviews with Peter Molyneaux about whichever game he’s never going to release. Everything except what games we’re playing, what games are out and what games are coming out next week.

    Now I’m having fun with Saints Row IV, but from here to New Year’s, I don’t see anything that really makes me want to take notice. I go look at the list of upcoming games at IGN and I see a lot of “2013 TBA” (which means next year some time) and even those games aren’t really that inspiring. Mostly, there’s a lot of “Q2 2014”.

    Last year at this time I had more new interesting games than I could play. I mean game-of-the-year quality games by the fistful. This year, it just feels like I’m waiting, and hearing a lot about what’s not done, who’s not finishing what and what DMT-fueled fantasy is currently dribbling out of Peter Molyneaux’s piehole.

    • PoLLeNSKi says:

      I think you actually have it spot on there.

      Most of the big releases were recent sequels or plain old annual hashes of the same action sports/FPS/Sims games with mildly prettier gfx and an updated pitch/groundzero/marble flooring. The games I’ll be taking with me in my memory box from this year are pretty much all indie titles.

      GTA 5 GOTY probably by default

      • PopeRatzo says:

        GTA IV can’t be GOTY unless it comes out this year. I’m not at all convinced it will.

  14. trjp says:

    Is this not a misunderstanding – did he not say he was leaving “for the lolz” and someone misread it?

    He’ll be back on Monday – unless someone burns the building down in the meanwhile, in which case he’ll get a job clearing-up the site of course…

  15. Lord Custard Smingleigh says:

    I look forward to the release of supercapital champions, jungle mining, 17 hour tower camps, suicide ganks while buying new skins, and player-run pyramid scams.

    • Bhaz0r says:

      player run pyramid schemes

      Reminds me, I’ve always wanted to play A Tale in the Desert.

  16. Turkey says:

    You can’t do sci-fi forever, sometimes you have to branch out and do a little fantasy.

  17. Bhaz0r says:

    This is giving me serious deja vu for when high profile developers were flocking to Zynga and declaring them the brave new future.

    I can’t blame them for making hay while the sun shines. I just hope they have something for all this hired talent to do. Because it’s amazing how fast these gold mines can turn into money pits. Just look at Popcap, bought for a $1billion a couple years ago and this year it faced mass layoffs, closures and its rapidly falling into obscurity as the Facebook and Appstore allow the most bare faced clones to take over the market.

    • Ringwraith says:

      League of Legends has been getting better though.
      They haven’t got around to fixing the crime that is the client yet, but they’re fixing old things bit by bit. Even their old character models and animations from back when they had no money. It’s hard to believe this was the same game at times.

      • JoeyAsagiri says:

        While it looks better then before, you still can’t deny they look allot worse then dota 2 models (Not to mention that no LoL model seems to have facial animations, and each of them have like a few minutes max of voice acting, while some dota 2 heroes have over 30 minutes of voice acting.

        Also if you read the forums people are complaining that season 3 is stale, which it is, I think that season 2 was allot better.

        There are two ways this goes, either the LoL community stays around the same size, or riot slowly kills themselfs.

        • jrodman says:

          I think art direction and style is a much bigger factor than tech.

          I don’t happen to like the LoL art direction, but other people do.

        • jezmabez says:

          Worse is subjective. I appreciate Dota 2 models, they are aesthetically pleasing and the interpretations taken on each character are interpretations that I completely agree with.

          However, LoL has a different artwork. It is inherently a different style from the beginning. It’s like trying to compare the Star Wars Animated Cartoon to the Clone Wars (while not a perfect analogy, lets you see how different styles of artwork make for a different feel rather than ‘better or worse’. In terms of quality, Riot has really stepped up their visuals on their champions making them extremely polished.

        • Ringwraith says:

          LoL’s kind of attempted to do the kitchen-sink approach DotA had in terms of art style for a while, but they’re settling on a consistent one now, as the updates to older designs roll around.
          I would imagine it was a lot easier to make DotA 2’s style mesh better simply because everything was already out there at once, rather than being something that is constantly in development and adding entirely new things.
          Not to mention comparing facial animations is a little unfair as you never see faces in LoL, whereas DotA 2 maintains the War/Starcraft animated unit portrait thing. Though the ludicrous amounts of voice acting has always been Valve’s thing, as evidenced by the ever-increasing numbers of lines in TF2. Production values are higher, but it doesn’t change the gameplay itself, which feels very different between the two.

          At the end of the day, it’s what you prefer, their art styles are different, and although DotA 2 is undeniably better in a lot cases (like how Naga Siren leaves a damp trail wherever she goes, which even reflects things), as long as something isn’t incredibly ugly and/or unclear it doesn’t make much difference to the game itself.

          Season 3 is a lot better than Season 2 was, with the greater item variety, both in general and especially for junglers/supports, and listening to the forums is never a good idea with a audience as large as this, as that vocal minority is huge in number. I know a lot of people who play and don’t go anywhere near the forums, in fact, almost everyone I know does.

  18. Shadowcat says:

    Riot Games have made one game, and they employ more than a thousand people?

    My mind is officially boggled!

  19. racccoon says:

    lol I don’t blame him, I left Eve a few years back being there since alpha birth its dead boring, and alongside wow bore these games are now in the loser bin. So nice move. :)

  20. geldonyetich says:

    Not sure exactly what Kristoffer is going to be doing over there.

    By that, I mean:

    League of Legends + Spreadsheets In Space = ???

  21. Hunchback says:

    Oh. My. God!

  22. Megakoresh says:

    Every now and then I make a mistake of reading comment section on one of these articles about either a controversial topic or one of these Online Micro-RTSs with community filled with vile-spitting fanbois. As someone who doesn’t play the genre for both the reasons of it being slow as hell and having inevitably shitty communities, the feeling I get after reading this is mixed. On one hand I am glad, as I can honestly not give a shit about all the flame filled crap people post, on another hand I am sad that one of the most powerful genres in the industry spurs such attitudes.

    And oh my, oh my, even here some lowlife managed to make a “Oh god, boobs on picture! Sexism, sexism, sexism!” comment. Is that the sign that industry is “developing”? Is that it? Does development of the industry require degradation of the audience, that people so happily dig out the most retarded and ridiculous reasons just so they have something they can preach about in their industry? if that’s the case then I’d rather it stays where it is.

    Seems people are forgetting that videogames are here so you can have fun and expand your horizons a little bit too. I wonder why nobody’s preaching about political messages in videogames or propaganda they convey (even if unintentionally)? Unlike boobs on the picture that actually affects the quality of the experience (Blacklist, I am looking at you).

    • Not Marvelous says:

      That was incredibly condescending and presumptuous. Depiction of women affects the quality of experience very directly *at least* for many women, but also for a large number of men. Speak for yourself.

      Political messages games convey are important, but don’t just use that to mock people who criticize sexism, it makes you look like an asshole. Instead of just wondering, do something about it. You know, like the people here that argue against sexism with seemingly infinite patience.

      While we’re at political messages, I recently got into Europa Universalis again and boy is that game screwed up. None of the EU games have even a mention of Jews or indeed even a concept of minorities (particularly racial, religious and cultural) in their centuries-long tale of world history. In EU3 I “bought” and “sold” slaves that were just a resource like any other. These slaves are not a part of any population, do not live anywhere, and can be “discovered” in, say, South Africa the way, I don’t know, iron can be. They can exist in provinces with no population and engaging in slave trade had no demographic or any other influence on your country. I don’t know if that changed in EU4 but I doubt it did.

      I understand Paradox makes their games primarily for white European history buffs / gamers, but I would just love to read an opinion piece that eviscerates this blatant (and to my knowledge overlooked) racism present across their games. Did someone write / complain about this? Did Paradox respond in any way? And is EU4 different?

      • Not Marvelous says:

        Damn my English gets awkward late at night /:

      • Asurmen says:

        Not including a minority and slaves as a resource now equals racosm? Oh lordy.

        • Not Marvelous says:

          That was not a particularly good attempt at reductio ad absurdum, as I could simply answer “yes”.

          But I’m gonna go with “no”, I did not say that not representing a minority is racist. It does make history awkward (especially with the examples like Jewish people) where including them would make the game a far better simulation of history while also providing opportunities for interesting game design. I heard the Magna Mundi mod included this feature, but I never tried it so I don’t know how it worked out.

          And the fact that slaves are a resource in EU may not be racist by itself – you could call any worker a resource for that matter. But I didn’t just say that having slaves as a resource, or indeed including slave trade in a game, is racist by definition. Rather, I have provided reasons why I think the depiction of slavery in the EU games is racist. And I would love to hear more than a “Oh lordy” as a response, from developers at Paradox if possible.

          • gi_ty says:

            Europa is a political simulation, Jews had next to no political power during the time period concerned. If Jews were included many other minority cultures would need to be included as well for balance, and I don’t think it could be done well (if at all). While I haven’t made it to Africa in my current EU4 game and cannot speak to how slaves as a resource are represented, I can say that EU3’s take on slavery was pretty close to the mark (abhorrent as it is). The methods used for collecting slaves and European and later American slavers attitudes towards Africans was a resource to be exploited. They had the major slaving centers in the areas indicated in game and people would go out and catch slaves. It is a dark period of humanity, but if you’re going to make a historical political simulation its impact on major power struggles cannot be ignored.

          • iridescence says:

            If you want to complain about something in this vein from EU4 in this vein, the fact that you can wipe out minority cultures within a few years with a trivial decision, and the game rewards you for doing so, does bother me a bit. I’m sure Paradox doesn’t do this to express some racist agenda but it does come off rather uncomfortable.

            I do think it’s fine to have the slave trade represented in game because it was an important part of the European economies at that time and simply ignoring it actually would make the Europeans seem morally better than they actually were. They could perhaps implement it it in a better way though.

          • Asurmen says:

            It isn’t reductio ad absurdum when it’s your own words.

          • Not Marvelous says:

            I was misunderstood to a degree and it’s probably my fault – I didn’t mean slavery should not be there. Of course it should. However, I feel slave trade would be better represented if, for example, it was a thing that can be imposed on actual populations. That way, you would have less “natives” living in your colony once you establish it, and slaves living in the province they were taken to work. There could be slavery-related decisions etc. There are lots of possibilities. Representing slaves as a permanent African resource, a natural feature of the land… that’s way too much.

  23. Rutok says:

    Hmm, so he left Eve “for the lolz”?

  24. Sardonic says:

    This is all just an elaborate awoxing plot by CCP, expect news in 6-8 months of riot’s accounts being cleaned, or them losing all their sov in summoner’s rift.