The New Order Of EVE Online: Meet The Corp On A Crusade To Bring War To Highsec Space

They say that in space, no one can hear you scream. I’m inclined to believe that’s a lie, mostly due to the hail of insults quickly filling up my chat window. I’d be a little pissed off too if my relaxing evening in EVE Online [official site] was just ruined by a roaming gang of thugs, but this foul-mouthed victim is not the first one who has bled at the hands of The New Order of Highsec. He certainly won’t be the last.

For over three years, The New Order, or CODE as they are often called, have been laying waste to the safest corners of New Eden, the galaxy of EVE Online. Roaming around in gangs, they find pilots in violation of their sacred New Code of Halaima and exact swift and brutal punishment. At the center of this revolution is one man, the self-proclaimed saviour of high-sec, James 315, and the vision he has for a New Eden reborn by fire.

“High-sec is too safe. That’s what it really comes down to,” Root tells me. He has been with CODE since the beginning, when James 315 was largely considered just another eccentric radical. Root and I are joined by John, another agent of CODE, and Loyalanon, the CEO of The Conference Elite, the corporation that spearheads all of CODE’s efforts.

It can be hard, even for a veteran of CCP’s space-faring online game, to wrap your head around the tendrils of consequence that ripple through EVE Online. CODE, however, landed with a splash, sending waves throughout the community. Their message is controversial, their methods vicious, and their conviction unrelenting.

“[Miners] weren’t taking part in the game, but they were reaping the benefits of playing. That’s just crazy,” Root continues. “Could you imagine going to play Space Invaders and saying, ‘okay it’s running now. I’m going to go watch Netflix while it racks up the score for me’?”

“They’re non-participants,” John chips in.

As a sandbox game, EVE Online doesn’t aim to show players a good time so much as give them the tools to build their own. While that philosophy has given rise to the climactic battles like the Bloodbath of B-R5RB, which saw over $300,000 USD go up in smoke in a single day, the other side of the coin is the massive subculture of players who take a passive approach to playing. Before CODE brought death and destruction to high-security space, where many pilots assume they are safe from unwanted aggression, it was not uncommon to find dozens of miners at an asteroid belt who had either left the game on while they did something else, or were using bots and automation to play the game for them. Many pilots in EVE have taken to calling them “care bears” as a reflection of their soft, nonthreatening nature. Some mine, others produce or trade, but the underlying theme is that just about all of them refuse to embrace the combative nature of EVE Online.

“I would say at least 80 percent of all the kills wouldn’t happen if the person was actually active and paying attention to the game,” Loyalanon tells me. As CEO of The New Order, Loyalanon has always led by example. He is personally responsible for over 4 trillion ISK worth of kills. When you consider that the largest battle in EVE history cost roughly 11 trillion, you begin to realize the tenacity of CODE’s vision.

You know that miner, the one mashing barely legible insults at me? Part of the reason he is so upset is because, unlike most other MMORPGs, EVE Online is a game pulsing with consequence. Death can be a crippling loss as months—even years—of hard work evaporates with the resounding thud of a neutron blaster. To many players, a mining barge is a drop in the bucket. But, considering how many times I’ve had scathing insults lobbed at me in the past few minutes, I’m going to venture a guess that my friend felt the loss a little more deeply.

The financial heart of EVE, where the non-player empires of the game’s four main races reside, is known as high-security space. A computer-controlled military force, CONCORD, enforces the laws of high-sec by destroying anyone who engages in criminal activity—like unwarranted aggression against another pilot. Just like many police forces, CONCORD response is reactionary. The New Order has made a science out of what they do. Flying inexpensive ships like the Catalyst, a Gallente destroyer, CODE is able to land on top of their unwitting victims and kill them in seconds—well before CONCORD can arrive to destroy CODE’s ships in return. For CODE, retribution is a mere business expense.

“If you’re playing the game and you’re paying attention to what you’re doing, you shouldn’t have a problem with us,” Loyalanon says, “You’d be too quick.”

“Mechanically we’re at a huge disadvantage,” John adds. “If a person is at the keyboard playing EVE, we are so far behind. All we have is [damage per second] and a little bit of strategy and wit. If a guy is at his keyboard, he is already good.”

Looking at The New Order’s recent kills, it’s apparent such advice goes unheeded as players continue to play EVE while their focus is elsewhere. Many pilots seem content to express their rage and frustration publicly rather than adjust their style of play. Some file petitions with CCP, others take to the forums to spark 200 page discussions, and a good portion of them settle for good ol’ fashioned verbal harassment.

“You guys are thugs.”

Of all the insults the miner has hurled my way since I helped CODE destroy his vessel minutes ago, this rather innocuous one sticks because, on some level, I agree. After flying with CODE and experiencing ganking firsthand, I’d be lying if some part of me didn’t feel a sting of guilt with every exasperated and confused response we received.

The heart of The New Order has always been The New Code of Halaima. Penned by James 315 himself, it is the law by which The New Order spreads their distinct flavor of justice across the galaxy. While many items of the Code are quite obvious, like players not participating in away-from-keyboard mining or acting in a manner that could lead to the assumption that they are using automated scripts to play the game for them, others are a bit more contentious. For one, miners are not allowed to use profanity, disrespect agents of the Code, and, upon being ganked, must even respond by congratulating their assailants on a successful hunt.

The New Order also sells mining permits, which players can purchase for a reasonable 10 million ISK. By displaying their permit in their character profile, they identify themselves as compliant members of the Code. However, many mistake this as a sign of immunity; a lesson they quickly learn the hard way.

It can be hard to not see the New Code of Halaima as a set of rules designed to be nearly impossible for many pilots to follow, especially when CODE have a tendency to poke already wounded players in an attempt to elicit a reaction. This usually leads to further infractions, leading to further ganks, and begins a vicious cycle until a pilot finally breaks and agrees to abide or discovers some way to evade CODE altogether.

Either way, the victory is usually awarded to The New Order. If a pilot gives up mining forever, they win, if CODE finally breaks their pride and gets them to abide, they win. Even groups of players who have fought tooth and nail to resist The New Order are playing right into their hand.

“I don’t feel any group or organization has the right to tell another player that is not directly associated with them on how they should play the game,” Javen Kai tells me. His Alliance recently received a formal declaration of war after an altercation with CODE. Javen’s attempts to defend his teammates resulted in a series of mocking blog posts on The New Order website.

“They make ISK by scamming and ganking people who fly expensive things without protection. Any ‘vision’ they portray is just propaganda.”

Yet, even Javen Kai would be forced to admit that this recent turn of events has meant prepping his pilots for war and engaging CODE rather than spending their time mining. Something Loyalanon counts as a success.

Of the recent victims I talked with, Javen was easily the most level headed. But you don’t have to dig very deep to find the type of responses that I received from the miner I helped gank. Just like any online game, EVE has its own troubled history with harassment and verbal abuse. However, the unique nature of the game makes it unclear where to draw the line between involved role-play and downright abuse.

Role-play is a core facet of The New Order, but it isn’t what you might think. Players don’t gather to offer morning prayers to their savior, James 315 (at least, not that I saw, anyway). Instead, they use it as a hook to bait reactions from those they attack. After a successful kill, agents will message the victim to inform them of their breach of the New Code of Halaima. They will, through repeated attempts, get players to recite the rules they broke. Agents of CODE will reproach the player, often quite scornfully, in an attempt to force them to repent from their sinful ways. For an already upset player, it’s the straw that breaks the miner’s back; many fly into fits of rage. These instances are recorded and shared on CODE’s website for members to laugh at.

“It’s just a video game,” Loyalanon says. “We’re made out to be the bad guys, but there is this whole community of anti-ganking, and if you sit in there you’re guaranteed to see them make a real life death threat on myself, or my kids, or any other CODE member. That’s on a good day.”

“We always operate with the assumption that CCP is watching what we say,” John adds in.

Loyalanon isn’t convinced that CCP is always impartial during these heated exchanges.

“A lot of CODE members have said things like ‘shit’ and they get warnings, and the care bears are spewing death threats and they get nothing.”

Death threats seem to be common, but they aren’t what has troubled members of CODE the most. Loyalanon tells me about the times his actions have been equated to child rape, murder, and worse. He tells me he even had to file petitions on behalf of players claiming that they were going to commit suicide because of their loss.

Perhaps no one within CODE is as familiar with the barrage of harassment as Kaely. She’s been with the alliance for several years, but when players discovered her gender, the sexual insults started pouring in and have never stopped.

“I kinda get that kick out of it, when you have everyone whining and crying because they got ganked,” she said. “I don’t let it bother me. EVE is a game; when I log off, real life is in effect and nothing from the game bothers me. Why it does for others, I will never understand.”

Last year, EVE was subject to a very contentious wave of bans including several prominent members of the community. Though the actual reasons for the bans were, according to Loyalanon, never fully disclosed, many members of CODE were locked out of the game for allegedly partaking in verbal harassment. CCP retains the right to ban players without refund or notice, but for Loyalanon, this issue and the perceived bias that he believes CCP holds towards high-sec players has coloured his perception of the game immensely.

“We lost friends, and they wouldn’t give us an answer—they wouldn’t give anyone an answer,” he says. “Fuck CCP.”

If anything, The New Order of Highsec casts a harsh light on the ideological schism that has formed between not only the players, but, as various members of CODE tend to think, the developers as well. While there is no denying that their methods are vicious, perhaps overly so, the continued tug of war between those wanting an open sandbox experience and those wanting a safer high-sec has become a painful topic in the community.

James 315 may not be as involved as he once was, but he still maintains a close watch over his zealots. I managed to catch him one evening, as I was looking for another miner to try and gank.

“From my perspective, the over-the-top negative reactions we get from some people is due to their belief that they’re supposed to be 100 percent safe in high-sec. People will petition CCP after they get ganked, for instance. It’s not a matter of opinion to me; they’re simply mistaken about the rules of the game, and about high-sec being completely safe. When people react this way, it reaffirms that CODE is on the right track,” James tells me.

“As for CCP, I think if you were to ask them, they would say they have bent over backwards to tolerate an organization that wouldn’t be allowed to exist in other games.”

And that angry miner? I spent a large portion of my evening talking with him. It was a surreal experience to adopt the mantle of CODE for a night, and I couldn’t help but feel out of my element as I scorned his lackadaisical ways and urged him to repent. But, as I continued to probe his weaknesses and dismantle his aggression, I began to understand the mental power fantasy that lies at the heart of CODE. When I logged in the next evening, I noticed he was already playing. I couldn’t help but laugh when I clicked on his character profile and saw written there: “I support the New Halaima Code of Conduct.”

163 Comments

  1. MartinWisse says:

    Their victims are right of course: these are a bunch of wankers & thugs who want to enforce their way of playing on everybody else, a rather fascistic way of playing.

    • ain says:

      Enforcing ones way of playing on someone else is synonymous to winning in games. That doesn’t make anybody a wanker. It does make them a better player than their opponent.

      • Chrysomore says:

        What utter fucking nonsense.

      • jrodman says:

        No, they’re absolutely wankers and thugs.

        The thing is that Eve is kind of designed for wankers and thugs.

        • Chocolate Mooses says:

          Miner, please calm down and show me on the internet spaceship doll where the New Order touched you.

          • Dilapinated says:

            Rape jokes? Really?

          • iainl says:

            It’s really quite remarkable how you continue to fail to understand why people think you are an awful human being.

      • ChiefInspectorLee says:

        lol that doesnt make any sense dude

        you mean “Being able to funnel someone into having to play primarily in response to your moves instead of their being able to pursue their own larger plan is generally a sign that you are more skilled at the game than they are”

        but that’s not the same thing as “forcing someone to play by your rules”, which is what miners are saying CODE is doing; if that’s accurate, saying that CODE is therefore better at the game would be like saying “making someone play chess without pawns by taking and burning their pawn pieces proves you are better then they are at chess”, which is obviously ridiculous

        the problem is that the structure of EVE makes it unclear if making up a quasi-religious fundamentalist cult and then enforcing it on other players (basically ISIS) is playing by the rules or making up your own

        • Jannn says:

          Can’t the miners hire some in-game protection force? That would be cool. I’m too slow to play EVE I’m afraid, always interested in the game. Maybe give it a try.

          The chess analogy of the other person here on the forum (about burning the opponents pawns) does not seem to understand that that would be a cool rule: Allowing to burn other player’s pieces. However that is not chess anymore, so what’s your point?

          Every good game needs villains and the existence of CODE (and others I’m sure) makes me more interested in the game.

          The bans are unfortunate to a certain degree, for as far as they’re injust. But if you can dodge an account ban by being careful with your language, it’s okay. Otherwise, it seems unfair and unhealthy.

      • Daemoroth says:

        There is a difference though. If CODE stopped at ganking, then yeah, they’re playing the game their way, miners are playing their way, paths crossed and ships exploded. No harm done (In EVE terms).

        The problem is CODE then starting to hold miners to THEIR set of rules, essentially trying to force the miners to play they way CODE does. That’s fascism, plain and simple.

        It’s ironic that CODE is standing up against the “fascism” of CCP making Highsec safer and safer, only to impose their own brand of fascist standards. Also, they hypocrisy of claiming that if you’re at your keyboard, you’ll be safe, then baiting responses from their victims…

    • Herbal Space Program says:

      It is a player driven game.

      • Chirez says:

        Sure, but just because you can do something doesn’t mean that you should.
        A lot of what comes out of EVE is various communities finding ways of dealing with each other. Some good, some less so. ‘That’s what the game is about’ is not a defense. It’s a condemnation.

    • jellydonut says:

      Yeah, you’re right, people should be able to leave their miner AFK without consequence and earn ISK while watching hentai. That’s what will really make Eve a great game.

      CODE does great work.

      • Haxton Fale says:

        Oh no, these pesky miners are doing something the game allows to make money without hurting anyone! Shame on them!

        • DeVadder says:

          Oh no, those pesky gankers are doing something the game allows because they enjoy it! It beeing allowed is no argument here.
          However, the article clearly overstates CODEs influence on the overall game. Afk mining has by no means become impossible, even in their area, the danger of beeing ganked has allways existed and just has increased a little bit. They are just very vocal about their kills.
          But if you know the game and fit your barge properly, you can make ganking very unprofitable for the ganker.
          Imho the main problem is a lack of communication. The really offended victims are those that got killed for the first time while expecting high sec to be safe because noone told them otherwise. Those more experienced are normally good sports about it. But many of those people who get ganked afk are the same people who never want to interact with anyone and as such likely are not in a corp of experienced and supportive carebears which could offer them advise and warnings in advance.

    • OldDirtyBathtub says:

      I would almost certainly have a brilliant and nuanced opinion on this matter if Eve was not the most boring game I’ve ever played.

      • Chocolate Mooses says:

        EVE is a sandbox game. It’s boring when you play alone, or play with a bad group of players.

        Once a player understands to be look for groups that are able to create amazingly fun content, it becomes one of the most amazing MMO games I have ever given a try!

        • iainl says:

          That’s the weakest excuse, though. Snap can be “good fun” if it’s what’s going on in while you enjoy spending time with your friends.

    • sgnl05 says:

      This argument makes zero sense to me. The highsec miners have one way of playing the game. CODE have another way of playing the game and apparently it revolves around ganking highsec miners. Now you might not like it, but how is trying to stop them from playing like that (either ingame or through whining to CCP) anything other than trying to enforce a style of play that YOU approve of on them? I.e the very thing that you’re accusing them of doing.

      If you say “it’s different. CODE’s style of play affects other players”, I think that’s practically the point. Both CODE and the highsec miners signed up to play an MMO game where the main drawcard is that you interact with other players and your actions affect them (and their actions affect you). To my mind, saying “they shouldn’t be allowed to play like that” is like saying “I want to play the game as a singleplayer game and I don’t want them to be able to interact with me like that”. But they signed up for an MMO because they wanted to be able to interact with other players! They sure as shit didn’t sign up to a game where everyone is allowed to play by themselves only as long as whatever they do has no bearing on other people’s ability to enjoy themselves in splendid isolation. If that’s what the highsec miners want they have every right in the world to it: it’s called singleplayer and there are literally hundreds of titles that offer it. But it isn’t called Eve ONLINE

    • Cropduster says:

      CODE can be a pain but imo it would be a lesser universe without them (except for the atrocious posting).

      It’s also not hard to drastically minimize your chances of being ganked in high sec, you just need to plan for it and not do anything stupid like playing afk or hauling multi-billion isk’s worth of goods in a freighter.

      • kentonio says:

        Freightering. The single most tedious and thankless job in the EVE universe. Yeah, let’s make it even more difficult and time consuming for the people who rely on it..

    • hungrycookpot says:

      If there were no bad guys, what would be the point in playing. That’s EVE, you can do whatever you want, including role playing a band of vicious zealots. I am glad this type of play is allowed, and CCP isn’t giving in to the butt hurt.

  2. Kiloku says:

    I play mostly in null-sec and wormhole space, and CODE is regarded mostly as a joke by the rest of us. They see themselves as strong elite PVPer’s and nefarious criminals, and portray themselves this way when they want to look good for interviews. We see them as too weak and cowardly to engage in combat with the rest of the PvP oriented groups, rarely ever daring to step into low (or god forbid, null) security space.

    Everyone likes to gank miners and traders, it’s fun. But only CODE pretends (maybe deluding themselves) that this makes you powerful and respected (in that “fear = respect” way that many of the nullsec achieve)

    • Capt. Bumchum McMerryweather says:

      This is what I logged in to say. Fucking goons too scared to take anyone their own size on.

      As an aside, I’d like to point out that this is how Nazi Germany started. That bellend Hitler though he was doing the right thing as well, but ultimately he was still an evil prick telling people how to do things. Next they’ll be eliminating people for being Minmatar.

      • Kaely Kakes says:

        Really? So Hitler’s Nazi Germany started in an online fantasy game huh…I was not aware..thanks for the history lesson..

        Sarcasm aside…
        Eve= a fantasy game of pixels about shooting pixel spaceships which is all over once you log off, no real losses, no real gains, just fantasy fun
        Hitler/Nazi Germany= a rl facist state that committed REAL atrocities on REAL people, invaded REAL countries and effected the REAL lives of millions
        …..shall I go on..or are you making that connection now :)

        • Capt. Bumchum McMerryweather says:

          I won’t even entertain your lack of understanding of my comparison, however I will say that I do maintain it. Of course I realize that they both aren’t the same, since I’m not a fucking retard, however I recognize the similarities in their fascist asshole behaviour.

          Making a comparison isn’t saying something IS something else.

      • WarKiel says:

        Goodwin’s law kicked in real fast this time.

      • Chocolate Mooses says:

        At this point I would ask you to google “Godwin’s Law” and realize how utterly silly you sound.

    • f4stjack says:

      Exactly, it’s like hunting baby ducks in a pond and bragging about it. That doesn’t strike me as a “ferocious hunter” vibe, maybe ginormous amounts of twatness but nothing to write home about hunter business…

  3. nanophage says:

    So basically James 315 is running a mob racketeering operation.
    To believe that any person has a right to dictate how a person plays a game, as long as their playing it within the boundaries of the games design, is arrogant to the highest. He, and others like him, need to realize that a loss in a video game can still be a emotionally charged even traumatic event for some people. In particular when it’s the loss of something that someone may have spent 100’s of hours attaining. I realize that this is probably a idea I’m going to get flamed for but “It’s just a videogame” isn’t an excuse for harassment, and harassing under the guise of role playing is still harassment.

    Still, I don’t know if this is something that should be outright banned in EVE. I would like to see the rise of an opposing faction, protecting high sec from such mob elements. Work it into the faction standings system perhaps.

    • Kiloku says:

      The point of EVE is that nothing is isolated from other players, so even though I dislike CODE and their actions, I don’t think they should ever be stopped by the Devs from doing what they do. EVE is all about losing the material stuff you have (but never your skills, which is an important part).

      The article itself is a bit skewed to make CODE look good/strong, but in game they encounter resistance from (usually non-highsec) factions. Not that there’s some sort of player made “world police”, as the general culture of EVE would refuse their presence really quickly, but CODE is considered hostile to many strong groups, and they don’t hesitate on hurting them when they step outside the safe zone they count on (while hypocritically claiming they want to make it an unsafe place).

      • Chirez says:

        In situations like this, so often the argument splits into two sides addressing two distinct questions.

        Whether CCP should stop CODE doing what they’re doing is a question for them, as developers. They’re trying to make a game, in order to make money. This is not a moral issue, but a social and economic one.

        The question I find more interesting is whether what CODE is doing is right, in a moral sense. So far as I can tell it’s nothing but small minded cruelty, which truly makes my blood boil. Hurting people who are not hurting you, for no more reason than that it makes you feel good is on the same level as pulling the wings off insects. The quote from Kaely is telling. “…when I log off, real life is in effect and nothing from the game bothers me. Why it does for others, I will never understand.” You should not need to understand WHY your actions hurt others. The fact that they DO should be enough to stop you doing it.

        • amblingalong says:

          I assume you also don’t believe it’s morally acceptable to shoot your opponents in Counterstrike (because bad K/D ratios hurt peoples feelings) or destroy their base in Starcraft or invade their world in Dark Souls?

          Please. Your vision of Eve as a game where everyone just roleplays nice cuddly friendly PVE characters is dull, barren, and lifeless. Pirates are *content,* just like hostile NPCs in an RPG; if you don’t like the bad guys, blow up their ships! Form an alliance and camp their stations! Cut off their supply of ISK!

          Would Halo be a more fun game if the Covenant agreed to just stop shooting you?

          • MacTheGeek says:

            The only reason to play Counterstrike is to shoot people. The only reason to play Starcraft is to destroy the opponent’s base.

            Is “attacking other players” the only reason to play EVE?

          • amblingalong says:

            One goal in Eve is to amass wealth. Piracy can certainly help with that.

          • amblingalong says:

            Anyways, I play counterstrike to admire the pretty weapons models and sound effects. How dare those evil trolls shoot me and interrupt my fun?!

          • Kaely Kakes says:

            Hehehe..I like amblingalong :P

        • Kaely Kakes says:

          Chirez…you do understand it is a game right? It is pixels on a screen. Nothing is real, nothing is even material. So I am to stop shooting spaceships in a game about shooting spaceships because it “hurts peoples feelings”? I think not..it is them who are playing the wrong game.

          I’ll say it for the millionth time…if someone gets hurt feelings and enraged from a game of pixels..it is THEM that has the problem, not me. If me destroying your spaceship makes you feel all angry and hurt inside, you need to step away from the computer and learn what is real and what is fantasy. When my ship is destroyed (and I don’t fly cheap), I suck it up and give a gf..it’s part of the game..and it’s only pixels. I do not whine in local, I do not threaten the other players family in rl, nor do I attack their sexuality or start with misogynistic insults. People need to get a grip..if games make you angry and hurt…don’t play..problem solved.

          • nailertn says:

            “So I am to stop shooting spaceships in a game about shooting spaceships?” No you are to stop shooting spaceships in a game about mining. Oh I get it. Eve is about PvP. All those other players who have been enjoying themselves all this time without having fired a single shot are having fun the wrong way and you are doing them a favor. This might come as a surprise to you but people who play exclusively in high sec don’t give a flying fuck about your precious PvP. There are more than enough willing participants elsewhere yet under the banner of PvP you pride yourself in going after the only targets in the game that won’t fight back.

          • kentonio says:

            Especially ironic considering most actual pvpers in low and null sec are pissed off because they don’t have enough players to pew with. Having hundreds of pilots wasting their time on ganking crap in hi-sec makes everyone elses game worse.

    • Chrysomore says:

      If only it were that smart and purposeful; they’re just self important trolls coasting on tactics goonfleet pioneered years ago.

  4. thetruegentleman says:

    Maybe the miners of EVE shouldn’t do a job so boring that almost everyone uses a bot instead? That’s really bad game design, and CODE seem to be forcing that to light; but, if the miners of EVE *really* want to keep their incredibly boring routine, then they should consider organizing a strike or a bounty against CODE, and keep it going until the players that rely on the miners either start driving CODE away or start putting up defenses around the miners.

    If the miners don’t have the power to do that, than they should start organizing their own defenses and start killing the CODE compliant miners so nobody can try and avoid the issue: whining until daddy CCP solves the problem for them shouldn’t be a legitimate way of dealing with this issue.

    • Kiloku says:

      From some talks within the EVE subreddit, we concluded that it’d be nearly impossible for the miners to ever manage to organize a strike that could be big enough to hurt the economy. Besides, botting has been less and less prevalent, as CCP has been improving their detection systems as well as hardening the rules against it.

      The Bounty system in EVE is useless, too, but it doesn’t matter. CODE isn’t nearly as dangerous as they’re made out to be in this article. The miners that whine about it are noisy, but not a relevant number.

      CCP really shouldn’t do anything about CODE, and they’ve said pretty clearly to all the whiners that this is how the game works.

      • Kaely Kakes says:

        As I’m sure you know, there is a balance in the economy of Eve. Often miners claim they are the reason everything exists. “If it weren’t for miners, there would be no ships”. This argument is very flawed though…If there were no PvP and exploding ships…there would be no market for their minerals. Mines provide a supply, PvPers provide the demand. Without both there would be no economy. It’s rather selfish and arrogant to assume everything in Eve is because “you mine”. Miners are necessary, no doubt..but so are PvPers and pirates.

        Eve is a world not unlike the real one..you have your heros and your villians. War erupts, like it or not. You don’t get to chose. You are a part of a greater universe. You will be knocked down again and again. The question is, will you get back up and survive. There is no entitlement in Eve…you are entitle to one thing with an Eve subscription…the right to log on…nothing more, nothing less. What you do when you log on, is up to you and everyone else that’s online..like it or not.

  5. BradleyUffner says:

    They sound like classic internet trolls; just trying to get a “funny” reaction on of people. They claim to be role-playing, but do and say things that require out of character knowledge. Reading things like this makes me glad I never got in to the game.

    • SuicideKing says:

      Lol my thoughts exactly.

      • Kaely Kakes says:

        It’s easy to judge when you don’t know..I believe the word is ignorant.. Play Eve, get to know some Code members..then pass judgement.

        • MichaelGC says:

          Agreed – but when you say people shouldn’t get upset, you’re also making a judgment on them with insufficient knowledge. Sure, it’s just pixels, and it’s just fantasy: but there could be any number of reasons why the fantasy is important to someone. Maybe they are fully able to tell the difference, but rely on the fantasy in some fashion because their real life is exceptionally painful or distressing.

          That won’t always be the case – maybe it won’t even often be the case – but it will sometimes be, and that means: “it’s a game; deal with it or go back to real life,” doesn’t have the easy universal applicability it may appear to.

  6. Moraven says:

    Reminds me of old WoW PvP and people whining about World PvP, when they had the choice of PvP server or not.

    • nanophage says:

      How so? You don’t have a choice in EVE.

      • amblingalong says:

        You have the choice to play or not play Eve, knowing full well what type of game it is.

        I mean, this is a bit like installing Day Z and then screaming your head off about evil trolls when someone shoots at you.

  7. ReV_VAdAUL says:

    Quite funny how in the space of a couple of paragraphs you have CODE stating that EVE is only a game and their victims should get over it and then you have CODE complaining CCP did something they didn’t like and how unfair and unreasonable it is. Unusual even for assholes to be that openly hypocritical.

    • thetruegentleman says:

      CODE is angry that some members were banned without explanation, which is never fair and never part of the game…assuming CODE is telling the truth.

      • ReV_VAdAUL says:

        CODE have created an arbitrary set of rules which they impose upon other plays and dismiss any complaints as silly because EVE is just a game. They then go on to complain that CCP imposed arbitrary rules on them, which they shouldn’t care about because by their own logic EVE is just a game.

  8. Drinking with Skeletons says:

    Why don’t CCP just put together vicious “police raids” and crack down on these people in-game? If they are, in essence, the government of the game, and they have proof that CODE is behaving in illegal activity (which in the real world would be assault, murder, destruction of property, and/or racketeering), then they would not be breaking the rules of the gameworld in any way by bringing down the equivalent of a SWAT team to tear these assholes a new one.

    • amblingalong says:

      If you want to do this, then start a player alliance, get some people who agree with you, and make it happen. That’s the entire point of EVE; the idea that the right solution to player generated content is to have the developers intrude into the sandbox is completely inane.

      • nanophage says:

        The issue with that is there is no way for a player run “police force” to be proactive. They can only react to CODE aside from running system patrols and even then by the time they are able to react the miner is probably dead. It would be quite boring for the player anyway. CODE can seek targets and attack, while any “police” just sit around until something happens.

        Also reacting flags the player police force as hostile and then they get killed by concord as well. The way the game mechanics work it heavily favors CODE in this situation and doesn’t allow for much retalliation.

    • jrodman says:

      The “rules” they are violating by attacking people in defended space aren’t game rules, they’re rules of the fictional computer-run empires who supposedly enforce some level of order within their controlled space.

      They’re not violating the spirit of the game by opportunistically attacking people in security space, and they’re not violating any player agreement either.

      Of course by systematically harassing people in an ongonig fashion, they’re being total pricks.

      I think there’s room to question if the computer enforcement should be tweaked if there are people who systematically flout the AI’s rules. Why would CONCORD stand for this level of disruption when they would clearly know the identities of the perpetrators? The verisimilitude is pretty broken by this.

      But to me it really breaks down into: is this an actual problem for the game design? And if so, would it be possible to make more aggressive enforcement in some way that would make it a better game?

      I certainly don’t know. I’m sure I’d hate the game design no matter what.

      • PikaBot says:

        This is basically my thought. The problem with what they’re doing is that the way they run their attacks is basically exploiting the game’s rules in order to be a bunch of pricks with no possibility of consequences. The correct response from CCP is probably to tweak the game rules so that purchasing cheap ships with a lot of guns and then doing suicide runs with them is no longer so cost-efficient.

        • Malibu Stacey says:

          The correct response from CCP is probably to tweak the game rules so that purchasing cheap ships with a lot of guns and then doing suicide runs with them is no longer so cost-efficient.

          Which if you’d played EVE you’d know isn’t actually possible for CCP to do without completely destroying the entire market.

          The ships these CODE players use are cheap because the industrialists (aka other players) who produce them are producing them cheaply so they sell them cheaply to increase their sales.
          The industrialists are able to produce the ships cheaply because minerals are cheap due to all the miners (aka yet more players).
          These ships aren’t bought from some nebulous NPC shopkeeper which makes them appear out of thin air like other MMOs, they take time, effort & resources to produce similar to the real world.

          Here’s the rub, if mining barges are getting destroyed repeatedly it’s going to make miners richer overall.
          Why? Well mining barges (and their fittings) are just like any other ship, they require minerals to produce. More ships being destroyed is going to increase the demand for said ships which the industrialists will notice & thus produce more of to take advantage of the demand. More ships being produced = more minerals being purchased by industrialists which means either the miners mine more to keep up with demand (and thus make more money by selling more volume for the same unit prices) or the demand outstrips the supply which increases the unit prices.

  9. Jenks says:

    If you play Eve and then get super sad/angry that someone blew up your ship (afk or not), I feel like you are playing the wrong game.

    • Chirez says:

      If you could point all the EVE miners to the massively multiplayer persistent universe social sandbox in which years of hard work will not be turned to dust by a gang of infantile psychopaths your point might have some merit. Until EVE is not entirely unique, the option simply doesn’t exist.

      I do wonder sometimes what would happen if CCP removed highsec entirely. I suspect the game would be reduced to a post apocalyptic wasteland populated solely by vicious trolls within a year.

      • amblingalong says:

        So basically you want to have a wide open sandbox game, but no piracy? How does that make sense?

        I’m guessing you don’t actually play EVE, based on your comments about removing highsec. Nullsec isn’t just full of random ganks for the lolz, it’s controlled by a network of extremely highly organized factions, with their own diplomatic/military/ social connections. It’s a lot more engaging than hisec, that’s for sure.

      • Kiloku says:

        > years of hard work will not be turned to dust

        The point is that this does not happen. Very few things in EVE takes years of hard work, and the ones that do take years of hard work are non-material and can’t be lost to a band of roving gankers.
        Every material good in EVE is ephemeral, the moment you buy a ship, you’re thinking of how you’ll lose it and how long it’ll last.

        • Kaely Kakes says:

          ^^^^ THIS…He gets it :)

        • Stellar Duck says:

          Back when I played (I mustn’t think of that!) and did low sec stuff and got ganked a lot and killed lone explorers because I could, I lived by the only rule that made sense: Never fly something I cannot afford to replace easily.

          So I flew dessies. Mostly drone boats. They were cheap as hell and could pack a punch and I had a hangar full of spare parts. Any time I undocked I considered the ship lost. If I got back I counted it as part of the loot.

    • Chrysomore says:

      Combat ships, sure, the problem for a lot of people is that the big, expensive mining rig they invested in is supposed to be how they cover their actual bills, so when that blows up unexpectedly, it can create a real setback.

      • amblingalong says:

        So? How would it enhance the game to remove piracy?

        Seriously, I don’t understand why people with this mindset play Eve. If you want a game with no risk and no consequences, there are literally hundreds of other choices- WOW and all the other WOW-likes come to mind.

        • hotmaildidntwork says:

          One game and its clones don’t really strike me as an endless well of options…

          • amblingalong says:

            My point is that there are hundreds of MMOs. Of these, ONE (that comes to mind, maybe there are others) allows near-complete player freedom in a sandbox that’s defined by player actions (i.e. player-run economy, etc).

            How does it make ANY sense to choose to play that one game, and then complain it’s not like all the other games?

          • Haxton Fale says:

            Because other than the near-complete freedom and almost exclusively player-driven content, EVE has plenty of other aspects that make it one of a kind – like the scale of spaceship command, with even the likes of X failing to achieve the same sense of commanding a battleship, or something larger. There is no space MMO that gives me the same reasons to play without having things that I dislike in EVE, and I assume the same holds for many other players who aren’t perfectly content with everyone and their mother telling them that they should just embrace the PvP, get blown up like everyone does, and be thankful for that.

          • amblingalong says:

            As douchey as this card may be to play, I guess all I can say to that is that since it’ll never change, you probably either have to make your peace with CCP’s vision for the type of game they want to make, or leave. They’ve been pretty clear that their vision includes player freedom and a wide open sandbox, and while I genuinely, non-snarkily get why that’s frustrating for someone who just wants to fly big beautiful spaceships around, that’s what you signed up for.

          • Haxton Fale says:

            I see your point, and it’s reasonable. I’m well aware that I have to compromise for what EVE offers alongside what I want from it, and I do. My main point was that I’m not perfectly content with having to compromise like that in the first place, especially with plenty of player base keen on removing any sense of refuge in the game just so carebears like me don’t get too comfortable. For now, however, the game still remains welcoming to some degree, and I hope it stays this way – it would be sad to part with it.

        • Chrysomore says:

          Oh, I’m not saying the rules should change, those guys are almost as bad as these CORE wankers, but I do understand the frustration involved. Fortunately all you really need to do is crank your volume and keep an ear open for warning klaxons; you’re welcome AFK’ers!

  10. Philopoemen says:

    “Mental power fantasy” seems pretty accurate.

    Your real life must really suck if you feel the need to lord it over people in a game.

    • Kaely Kakes says:

      Actually, quite the contrary. My rl is quite nice. I am married, have a beautiful family, own a home, and do quite well. My husband is an architect, and I am a designer with an engineering degree..so your analogy is quite flawed.

      I am not what you would expect, especially for being a female gamer…and neither are the members of the New Order. You see, it’s these very assumptions that are the core of the problem..not what good people decide to do in a fantasy game. Would it be correct for me to assume all carebears are 300lb neckbeards that live in their parents basement? No..that’s just as ridiculous. If you’re going to have an opinion about something or someone, know what you are talking about first. Get to know some agents..convo me in game if you want. You’ll be surprised just how inaccurate all of the hype actually is. But of course, without all the hype, the fabricated drama and lies..the whole anti-code thing wouldn’t be exciting and no one would care. It’s only natural people have to exaggerate and lie to get attention..as it is, as it’s always been.

  11. Kiloku says:

    I’m seeing lots of misconception in the comments section here. These guys, while they’re in fact assholes, aren’t doing something that is “wrong” within EVE Online. The game hinges on the fact that players have no artificial boundaries, if it’s doable in-game, it’s allowed (save for a few exploity glitches).

    What is truly frowned upon in EVE is complaining about losses (especially if they’re seen as preventable). Since the game gives everyone equal starts and quick opportunities (as do player groups of all kinds, as most of them will want to get new members), it’s considered childish and whiny to want special treatment because of your playstyle or main activity. As is often cited, a week old player can easily gather skill and gear enough to fight years old players, as long as they specialize and work for it. The whole game is about dealing with other players, there is no “respawning mob hunting ground” to grind, there is no questline to follow (actually, there are a few, but they’re mostly for flavor), and even the miners will eventually be selling their stuff to other players (and competing for ore locations with other miners!)

    Furthermore, EVE players are the kind that will kill your newbie ship, see you’re new, and then gift you 10x the money your ship was worth and a bunch of advice. Usually coupled with an offer to join their faction. Killing and being killed is part of the game. If you can handle it well, you’ll probably fare well too.

    • Chirez says:

      I love the way certain players of EVE can say that the game is defined by player actions while simultaneously claiming that other people are playing it wrong.

      That aside, I would question your assertion that all players are created equal. While the characters may start the same, and play by the same rules, the PLAYERS are still very different. The best analogy is probably playing a board game with a five year old. You both start in the same place, and play by the same rules, so he has no cause to complain of unfairness if you manage to utterly destroy him in half an hour.

      If people do not WANT to fight you, why would you then attack them? That’s a genuine question I would like answers to. I personally understand the impulse to kick over somebody’s sandcastle, just because it will make them cry, but I don’t DO it because it’s heinous.

      • amblingalong says:

        “If people do not WANT to fight you, why would you then attack them? That’s a genuine question I would like answers to.”

        Because they have something valuable in your cargo hold? Because their alliance controls space that has tactical important your goals? For literally any of a thousand reasons?

        If somebody does not WANT you to headshot them in Counterstrike, why would you then headshot them?

      • Kiloku says:

        PvP in EVE isn’t “just for funzies”, it’s for profit. It’s one of the many ways to get your ISK. I’m personally not a fighter, I think of all PvP situations I’ve been in, I only survived the ones where I was a member of a combat fleet and followed orders. My activity in EVE is exploration (sort of a space archaeologist). It’s how I get money. Sometimes, someone else gets their money by finding me and blowing me up and taking my cargo. Sometimes, someone tries and I alert my friends, and gets blown up themselves. Sometimes, I narrowly escape through a wormhole and cloak before they can follow me.
        Each playstyle (including the ganker’s) has risks and benefits. The miners have the benefit of playing a more passive game, with the risk of being an easier target. (Not a completely defenseless target by the way. My secondary character is mining oriented and I’ve escaped more than once from gankers). The explorers such as me have the benefit of higher profit (for the non-combat kinds of players), but the risk of being in a very weak ship that explodes if someone sneezes at it. The gankers’ strategies depend on luck. Not often a ship they target is bait (to bring friendlies to take out the gankers), but when it is, they usually lose everything they sent.
        As I said (in another comment, I think), I don’t like the way they act. But they don’t have unfair advantages or something. No one is hand-held.

        • alw says:

          “As I said (in another comment, I think), I don’t like the way they act. But they don’t have unfair advantages or something. No one is hand-held.”

          I’d disagree with that, in that I don’t think you can really compare the viability of hisec mining against the viability of picking on them. In a broader sense, yes, it’s fair because people have the same start and the same game rules applied to them, but this doesn’t really take into account that people want to do different things. In this example (New Order vs miners), those things are directly opposed, so the fairness comes down to the game rules that govern this opposing relationship.

          I haven’t played for some years now, but miner-bumping was New Order’s thing back then (basically, where they bumped mining ships away from the asteroids they were mining). They didn’t shoot because shooting first would mean CONCORD would come and blow them up, so instead they basically disrupted and provoked – all within the game’s rules. Was this fair? You could argue that yes, it was because it was within the rules of Hisec and the game allowed it. On the other hand, it wasn’t “realistic” (in quotes ‘cos y’know, internet spaceship game…). There was no damage to New Order ships from ramming a larger mining ship, there was no penalty for an aggressive act in an area supposedly under control of one of the big Empire factions, etc. This lack of realism around certain areas of the relationship between New Order and the miners, well that could be seen as the miners having a disadvantage. Because of the game’s rules, they were basically easy prey.

          Now, this is all fixable stuff, but there would need to be a will to fix it, and CCP don’t seem to want to fix it. I think there’s too much pressure from players who would see it as “giving in” to carebears. I was never a miner myself, but it’s little issues like this that eventually made me feel that this wasn’t the game for me because it seemed to me a case of CCP encouraging or discouraging certain playstyles. Personally, I would prefer a more “realistic” sandbox space game rather than one that nudged players into playing a certain way.

      • Kaely Kakes says:

        No one said miners are playing it wrong. They have every right to play and mine..as do gankers, pirates, mercs, etc. it’s all about risk. Accept it or don’t..it doesn’t matter..either way the same thing will happen.

      • Stellar Duck says:

        “If people do not WANT to fight you, why would you then attack them? That’s a genuine question I would like answers to.”

        Look, it should come as no surprise to anyone that PVP is a huge part of EVE. There are no PVP flags or toggles. When you undock you consent to possibly being blown up. You shouldn’t ever undock if you’re not prepared to write off the loss.

        I lost a Brutix one. I had no business flying a Brutix but I really wanted to take it for a spin. Of course it got blown up. I took a day or two off the game. Signed back in and fitted a dessie and got back to it. These days my skills are so I can fly the Brutix. But I can’t write it off with a grab in the pocket. So I keep my new Brutix spinning in the hangar.

        It’s not like kicking over a sand castle. The social contract on the beach does not include that. In EVE it does include PVP.

    • Traveller800 says:

      I must disagree with people saying that CODE doesn’t break the rules. Back when I played, when CODE was starting out, I ended up as the subject of some of their website ridicule. While this didn’t bother me at first, it quickly began to as I began to receive threatening comments in game. These ranged from simple insults up to calls for me to kill myself and threats to dox and attack me in my home.

      These messages all came from agents, confirmed when I foolishly tried to ask in the or public channel for them to ease up a bit. While some agents did apologise and cease, others upped their game, attempting to post dodged info on the forums, info happily purged by the forum admins. The very worst was when one agent decided to tell players in Kino local I was a child rapist which shocked me to my core at the pettiness and sheer cruelty of the untrue comment.

      I of course sent petitions given the severity but left the game in disgust when it was revealed the responsible players were still playing with no sign that they had even been warned.

      CODE are not the heroes they claim to be..While some are nice when not ganking, the majority are in it to simply be cruel and heartless. I will not say my eve chars name as i do not wish for further threats against my person.

  12. amblingalong says:

    My main issue with the article is that it makes it sound like CODE is a much larger and more influential organization than they really are. They’re active in a relatively small section of space, and they’re just one of many, many highsec ganking groups; they just have some relatively unique propaganda to go with it (and just to be clear, in Eve terms, propaganda isn’t a pejorative; most serious alliances have a propaganda arm in one form or another).

    In reality, CODE isn’t taken very seriously by most organized groups; they’re a bit of a joke, really, especially after the Alliance Tournament two years ago. They get lots of kills on unguarded solo highsec miners, but so do plenty of other pirates, and they’ve never stood up to anyone serious who went after them in PVP.

    • Stayche says:

      Wow! what an original idea! How has nobody ever thought of doing this before?

  13. Chirez says:

    So many comments from EVE players that seem to argue that morality in EVE operates somehow differently to the rest of human experience. Things are not right ‘in EVE terms’ which are wrong elsewhere. It doesn’t work that way. There are many things which are commonly accepted, whether they are right or wrong, and there are many things which are different because the EVE universe has a few different fundamentals. Hurting people for the hell of it is not one of them.

    • amblingalong says:

      By your logic, every time I play multiplayer civilization I’m literally committing mass genocide.

      *Obviously* blowing up someone’s internet spaceship for fun and profit is different than real-world violence.

      • Tatourmi says:

        You are not killing people in civ. You are not killing people in counter-strike. You are also not hurting them as long as you stay within an implied consensual agreement. The player built that town with the fact that you were an opponent in mind. I crossed that corner with the fact that there are others trying to kill me in mind. It is not the case for those miners, and as such you are hurting them, in a very real way.

        Did they do a mistake? Should it be part of the implied consensus that in EVE you play to get fucked? I don’t know, I am torn on the issue. Eve is a box full of assholes, everyone knows that. But it is not meant to be one. Freedom also means restraining yourself from doing certain things. On the other hand the only reason I have the slightest interest in EVE is because of the larger than life fuckup that this game’s society is. And so it is part of the set of expectation that Eve is a box full of assholes.

        And now as a though experiment: Imagine that you are playing a friendly game of chess with someone. Suppose you can put them in checkmate by moving your tower. Normally you would do it. Suppose now that your opponent starts sobbing uncontrollably, begging you not to do it, and doing so very seriously. Would you still put them in checkmate? I wouldn’t. I would be weirded out, sure, probably even a bit silently angry that they broke a perfectly good game, but I would not do it for their sake, because, as you said, it is just a game. And I don’t think it is worth hurting people over what is just a game.

        And actually insulting their victims and trying to pull strings to break them is just being a douchebag, and not the funny lovable kind. The particular position of Eve as a game does not excuse it, I don’t think that can even be seriously debated.

        • amblingalong says:

          Great analogy with chess. Now, imagine after that chess game, somebody wrote a post about it for a blog online. Who do you think was being silly in that scenario- the one who attempted to put their opponent in checkmate, or the one who was screaming and wailing about it?

          <blockquoteYou are not killing people in civ. You are not killing people in counter-strike.</blockquote

          …do you actually need to be reminded that people aren't actually dying in Eve, either?

          <blockquoteYou are also not hurting them as long as you stay within an implied consensual agreement. The player built that town with the fact that you were an opponent in mind. I crossed that corner with the fact that there are others trying to kill me in mind. It is not the case for those miners</blockquote

          When you log onto a game with unlimited PVP, yes, there is an implied consensual agreement that someone might shoot at you. What if I want to play multiplayer civilization but just tech up and reach a peaceful victory? What if I don't consent to having my cities burned?

          <blockquoteEve is a box full of assholes, everyone knows that.</blockquote

          "If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day, you're the asshole."

          Eve has one of the nicest, most supportive, most genuinely friendly player bases of all time. Every time I got blown up as a noob, the guy who killed me offered to explain what I could have done better. Some even sent me ISK. I'm a FC for a fairly large PVP alliance in nullsec, and I have great personal relationships with the FCs of all of our 'enemies,' even though we routinely are working to destroy each other's fleets.

          The only people who think Eve is full of assholes are the assholes who confuse PVP for actual real-life violence. Like you.

          <blockquoteBut it is not meant to be one.</blockquote

          Citation needed. CCP built the game, so they'd be the experts on what it's 'meant' to be like, and they seem to be fans of player freedom and emergent content.

          • amblingalong says:

            Wow, that’s what I get for copying and pasting blockquotes. Let us edit posts, please?

          • Kaely Kakes says:

            In Eve, when you click agree after you install the game…you consent to PvP. When you undock a ship from a station, you consent to PvP. If you are not prepared or do not like PvP, you are playing the wrong game. Eve is about risk. The risk is equal for everyone and no group should be exempt from it. You wish to make isk by mining, fine, but you accept that there is risk in doing so…just as every PvP player does when they hunt or engage a target. You win some, you lose some..it’s a game. There would be no “tears” to be had if people would just understand this. To become emotional over pixels is ridiculous. Those who do, put THEMSELVES in a position to be mocked..is it right…that’s a matter of opinion. The only rise that someone can get out of you is the one YOU allow them to get, so a little personal responsibility is in order here.

            Eve is a game. It’s pixel on a computer screen. To allow someone to enrage you or allow yourself to become enraged over pixels is a personal issue, not someone elses. If the line between what’s real and what’s not is that thin for some as to get genuinely angry over pixels..perhaps playing games is not what they should be doing. Get outside and live.

  14. mpk says:

    My view on roleplaying in EVE has always been that the only role you play is You, The Space Bastard.

    I truly believe that it’s a game that lets the “real” you show in your actions – it is, after all, just a game*, so it’s actions without consequence. Its open nature lets the socially inept (like me) become leaders and role models in a way that the trad. static worlds of WoW-likes are unable to. Any fucker can run a raid once they read the guides and understand the rote techniques, but the ability to succesfully lead 50+ other human beings across 100 jumps of New Eden just to have a good time takes patience, bloody-mindedness, an ability to listen and learn from others and a liberal dash of alcamahol.

    I just read that sentence about leaders and role models again. I am such a dick. I hope the point stands though.

    Also, that Alien quote needs to be paraphrased when it comes to EVE: In space, everyone can hear you being an absolute cunt to total strangers.

    *although internet spaceships has ALWAYS been srsbsns

    • Kaely Kakes says:

      Do you play rpg’s? So you’re saying that the char you play is you…so you go out and kill people irl…and steal…and whatever unscrupulous activities you do in a game? That argument is ludicrous and a typical response. A game is a game..you play a game in a fantasy world. None of it’s real…and if you have difficulty understanding the difference between reality and a fantasy universe, you should step away from the computer and see a professional. No offense, but you play a game to do the things you DON’T do irl. What you’re saying is that everyone who plays Call of Duty are murderers…ridiculous.

      • mpk says:

        Clearly you’ve missed my point, but have a nice day anyway.

        • Malibu Stacey says:

          She seems like she’s got a bit of a stick up her arse & will reply to anything in here with an aggressive tone, even posts like yours which clearly agree with her point of view.

          Methinks someone needs to unplug & clam down for a while. Ironic.

  15. amblingalong says:

    Genuine question for the ‘highsec piracy is morally evil’ crowd: do you feel the same way when a nullsec power bloc invades another group’s space and takes their systems? Because that loss is *far* more devastating than a single mining ship.

    Do you realize how boring a game it would be if everyone just agreed to get along?

    • Generico says:

      What CODE does isn’t piracy. It’s more like vandalism. Pirates attack other ships for profit. CODE is just throwing away cheap ships (the Catalyst destroyers they usually fly are inexpensive and can have very high DPS) to grief other players. Blowing up defenseless miners isn’t really that profitable as piracy goes.

      There are lots of actual high sec pirates, but they spend most of their time attacking freighters, transports, and mission runners because they can actually be very profitable targets.

      • Kaely Kakes says:

        Do you play Eve? …because there isn’t a single fact in your statement. Freighter ganking is quite lucrative..in fact, just today, billions of isk was claimed by the New Order. Seriously though…if you truly want to know what’s really going on..rather that the rhetoric and propaganda..talk to an agent…I promise, you’ll be surprised. Lies and drama are more interesting than the truth..which is why there are such misconceptions. Appeal to the bleeding heart..which is why so many cry…because they know some fool will listen to them, whether they are right or wrong.

  16. morbiusnl says:

    code is the reason I stopped playing, and Im not the only one.

    • Merus says:

      Groups like CODE are definitely the reason I didn’t go past the trial. I liked the idea of playing salvager with spreadsheets in space, but died to a PvPer within a minute of crossing into midsec space for the first time. That reminded me that, whatever I might like about EVE, the game is actually about a libertarian dystopia, and I decided I had better things to do than ingratiating myself with those people to have a chance of doing anything more elaborate. (I also find it funny that CCP apparently thinks the tutorial is the culprit behind their player retention problem, because as far as I’m concerned the problem is what happens immediately after when players discover what kind of game it actually is. Next time they redo the tutorial, they should have someone demand all your ISK, and if you don’t give it to them they blow up your ship and pod.)

      Elite: Dangerous exists now, which gives me what I wanted from EVE without having to deal with EVE players.

      • Kaely Kakes says:

        Actually, it has already been proven that PvP and/or Code is NOT the reson most people quit Eve. In fact, most people who PvP early on, tend to stay in the game. The percentage of miners that get ganked is so minute..1%. Check the Eve forums..it’s all been there for some time. I PvPed my 3rd day…and died miserably..but had fun and worked to get better. Some people just don’t have it in them to step up from failure and try to be better..or maybe they just decided Evewasn’t for them. Tbh, more player quit because they find mining boring than those that quit from PvP..maybe because they didn’t try..or were afraid to PvP..who knows.

  17. Wetcoaster says:

    This being Eve, I suspect some other (other) players will take this as a sure business opportunity to provide active security for a price – like security details in real-life that accompany their charges instead of waiting for a call.

    Get the miners to cluster together in convoys and it could be very cost-effective for the miners and the guards.

    • Tatourmi says:

      The problem is that this just would not work. Asteroid clusters are too large, ships too expensive, and retaliating against the attackers would flag the ships as criminals for concord. Attacking is profitable and fun, defending is costly and boring. This is one of the main issues.

      • Kaely Kakes says:

        You do not get a suspect flag by shooting a suspect or criminal flagged player. The problem is that there is no point in protecting other players. Who would want to sit in a belt doing nothing for hours for little to no gain…only miners like doing this..and many are afk or using bots. If protecting miners was lucrative, it would have been done long ago. The bottom line is all it takes to protect themselves is to pay attention, watch scan, and be aware of your surroundings…but that’s too much to ask from some people. Besides, you can’t do any of those things if you’re afk…

        • Stellar Duck says:

          Also maybe sacrifice some cargo space for some armor. But that’s not going to happen.

  18. mechanixis says:

    These guys don’t sound like much more than glorified thugs, but what this really makes me hopeful for is a follow up story in six months about how this anti-automation campaign causes a in-game market crash or how a resistance movement appears and pushes back. CODE would make a lovely little villain in some upcoming EVE history lesson making the rounds on gaming news sites.

    • Kaely Kakes says:

      You can keep on hoping :). Piracy is at the very core of Eve. It’s not a game for the weak or the squeamish..yes so many of the sqeamish chose to play..then complain about it. Eve is not WoW, it’s not SW…it is its own animal…and in Eve you are either the predator or the prey…it’s up to YOU to decide which you will be.

      • Merus says:

        Why would you choose to be prey?

        And what happens to the predators when the prey all migrate away?

        • Kaely Kakes says:

          I couldn’t tell you why one would choose to be prey..but they do. When the prey will never migrate away…and even if they did..it would be the same as it is now…the predators would fight.

    • Angry Chum says:

      I wouldn’t count on a resistance anytime soon. Alot of resistance movements have come and gone and Code are still alive and kicking. What unites them is a very solid dedicated grouping. As well as their leader James 315 who they can all rally around.

  19. BananaMan3000 says:

    Eve is great, played it on and off for over 10 years. Right now I’m in an “off” phase but soon enough it’ll be time to spend a few months in the game again. The fact the people can and do make weird organisations like CODE in Eve is amazing and why the game is unique.

    For anyone that doesn’t play the game though: you have to realise that these guys are absolute bottom feeders. They’re basically just organised griefers that spend their time killing miners who never shoot back. They operate just inside the limits of what is acceptable without getting banned, and organisations like this attract that absolute dregs of the playerbase. For people that actually PVP they’re a joke.

    • Kaely Kakes says:

      You are assuming all of the New Order are gankers. Code is just the name of the alliance, The New Order consists of many corps and alliances, many of which are mercs, PvPers, null dwellers, etc. This is part of the problem…there are too many assumptions and too little knowledge. I, for one, am not a ganker. I am a merc, I hunt war targets, lived in low, null, wormholes, been part of small corps and huge alliances, fought in 1000+ pilot fleet battles…so your assumption is incorrect. There are many like me who are a part of the new order. Not all of the New Order are gankers, and not all gankers are part of the New Order.

      Grief…is a matter of opinion. If a person experiences grief playing a game…well…some personal issues are in effect there. There is real..and there is fantasy…people would do well to understand the difference.

  20. Premium User Badge

    Phasma Felis says:

    It just baffles me that anyone involved on any side finds any of this fun.

    Also, you’ve gotta love hypocritical trolls. “It’s just a video game,” says Loyalanon, and “I don’t let it bother me. EVE is a game; when I log off, real life is in effect and nothing from the game bothers me. Why it does for others, I will never understand,” says Kaely; but then when some of them get banned, it’s “We lost friends, and they wouldn’t give us an answer—they wouldn’t give anyone an answer. Fuck CCP.” What’s the matter, kid? I thought it was just a game, that it shouldn’t bother anybody.

    • Kaely Kakes says:

      Doesn’t bother me. What bothers is the “reasons” for the bans. So it’s okay for people to make death threats and sexual comments and not get banned…this is where the double standard lies. You don’t even play Eve do you? It’s rather obvious..so many have so much to say about things they know nothing about. Plat Eve, then speak your opinions. If you played, you’d know who the real “bad guys” are.

  21. A Rising Ape says:

    Huh, shows my luck, all I ever met we heartless jerks who’d just gank and then swear at me in Lithuanian.

  22. buzzmong says:

    Ahh, James 315 and his CODE boys.
    I’m actually torn on the whole scenario. As a former Eve’er who only dabbled in PVP and mostly spent time doing PvE and industry (and mining), part of me actually lauds their actions.

    There are (or were) plenty of people who log on and use bots to grind ISK with mining, and it is very annoying when everything in EvE is supposed to be PvP, even the non combat, and you can’t even do some active mining because someone has gone straight to a belt after downtime and sat there all day using bots. CODE are right in saying that those people are not actively engaging in the game and it’s players, and actually due to the nature of the economy, are damaging it via inflation.

    That said, the other half of me hates the fact they’re griefers who get a kick out of swatting any form of miners, even active ones, and the fact they clearly do it to collect carebear tears a lot of the time. If they solely went after botters, I’d support them, but they don’t, and they run what’s essentially a protection racket too boot.

    I’m glad CCP are staying quite neutral on the whole matter though, because the rules as they stand do allow for this behaviour and it is what makes EvE very interesting.
    As an aside, I’m also willing to bet that those “unexplained” bannings probably also had warnings before them and were probably griefing/harrasment related.

    • kkad225 says:

      I tried out the trial of EvE once I played DUST on the Playstation 3, after I downloaded the game, I just autopiloted out to the system where all the Amarrian DUST players were and started mining. I encountered some NPC pirates, so I flew back to the dock, took out one of my mining lasers for a gun, and headed back out. after a few shots,my mining ship made short work of those pesky little pirates, but then I ventured a little too far, and got myself brutally murdered by an NPC pirate ship that was twice my ship’s size. But most of the time from what I’ve read, the miners in highsec think it’s 100% safe at all times, so there’s no need for any sort of weapon.
      After reading this article and some comments, I can come to the conclusion that: 1. Highsec miners need to spend more time in the game, and need to put at least one weapon on their ship, so they’re not “Carebears” anymore, and can defend themselves. 2. CODE and it’s affiliates are just trying to get more people to play the
      game, instead of tabbing out and watching TV or using a script to do all of the work for them. If you want to get anywhere, you have to work for it, you can’t do nothing and expect to get something out of it. But, as for the racketeering and the verbal abuse for gags, that just seems like what school kids would do on the playground. It’s immature, and frankly unfun to the people it’s happening to.

  23. Generico says:

    So this article is a really long winded way to say “If you want to be a troll, EVE is your game.”

    CODE is nothing but a bunch of griefer trolls who would get banned from any other game in about 2 seconds. If fun for you consists solely of ruining other people’s fun, you can’t claim to be a decent person. You’re garbage. Probably the kind of that enjoyed torturing small animals as a child. And every excuse I’ve ever heard anyone make for CODE is the logical equivalent of a serial killer saying “I’m not an awful excuse for a person. Those people should all have been wearing bullet proof vests and carrying a gun.”

    If CODE ever did real pvp, it might be different. But they don’t. They’re just a bunch of CHODEs that get their kicks from ruining other people’s fun.

    • amblingalong says:

      In other news, every time you shoot someone in Counterstrike you’re a literal murderer.

      • Generico says:

        Perhaps you don’t understand what the word “logical” means in that context. It means conceptually, not literally.

        The morality surrounding fair competition doesn’t disappear just because you can’t see or don’t know the other person. Nor does it cease to be just because “it’s a game”. If you throw your morality out the window whenever you’re disconnected from the people your actions affect, you should probably see a psychiatrist because you might be a psychopath.

    • Kaely Kakes says:

      Really? You need to check the killboards..or come visit me sometime. Not all of Code are gankers. :)

    • Premium User Badge

      Harlander says:

      So this article is a really long winded way to say “If you want to be a troll, EVE is your game.”

      Like every article about EVE.

  24. Premium User Badge

    gritz says:

    It’s cool to see how little has changed from the PK days of Ultima Online. Right down to the justifications for the ganking playstyle, to the “if you don’t like it, organize and fight back!” suggestions (as if that’s a realistic possibility for the underskilled, underequipped, and friendless victims of the gankers).

  25. Gilly says:

    The day after tomorrow, I will reactivate my 10-year-old EVE account and get back into the game to join CODE.

    Because seriously, those thugs are on the right track.
    If CCP just ups CONCORD response times or bans Hi-Sec violence altogether, they successfully broke the game and proved that the EVE promise of a player-driven MMO is dead.
    If players organise and provide protection to the Weak, the New and the eternally AFK, then that proves that EVE can indeed continue its pioneering ways.

    To me, this can only end well. Either this game will turn into something new and interesting, or I can let it drop from my radar and spend my attention on something more worthwhile instead.

  26. Scrofa says:

    I see nothing wrong in roleplaying a thug in a game. All the shittalk they get from their victims is just laughable. Kudos to CODE for bringing in some fun to hi-sec.

  27. Kaely Kakes says:

    The problem is not Code or the way they play. People need to accept the fact that Eve is a game..a game about exploding spaceships and a galaxy in turmoil. If you are not prepared to defend yourself, you are playing the wrong game. What I find completely sad is that for a game that is 99% male dominated, I have never in my life seen a bigger collection of whiners and wusses anywhere else. If you don’t like the way Eve is played, don’t play. Stop blaming those who know how to play because you can’t. It’s rather sad when the woman has a bigger pair then the majority of the “men”. Like I said in the article, when you log off…the game is over. Get over it..move on. Stop crying about it and learn to play..or stop playing..but don’t blame others because you couldn’t hack it. :)

    • Carcer says:

      So, whining and emotional outbursts are acceptable and understandable for women but manly men should be held to a higher standard of emotional restraint? I like your double-standard, it’s not reinforcing shitty stereotypes about gender or anything.

      The primary issue is that high-sec is presented as a place where you are safe, because there’s omnipresent NPC police forces who will smack down anyone who breaks the rules, but the reality is that you’re still totally at the mercy of anyone who wants to blow you up and can afford to die themselves. The disconnect between the narrative of the game and the reality of the mechanics is why people get so surprised and upset when you kill them in highsec. Plus, when you’re essentially doing it to deliberately upset people, whether or not it’s within the rules of the game is irrelevant; it still says bad things about you personally. In a way I suppose I’m glad you have a place like EVE where you can express these traits without having to spill it over to the real world, but nothing you have said or are described as doing makes you sound likeable as a person.

  28. Blackbird says:

    And this is why after 10 years I quit EVE, FOR GOOD.

    • Kaely Kakes says:

      !0 years playing a game is a long time…to long. No offense, but it’s probably best. Go outside, live some life..after all, you spent 10 years glued to your computer screen..life will pass you by.

      On a serious note, you quit because you were bored. Be honest. You don’t play for 10 years in a game like Eve and then say you quit because of entities like Code, etc. It kinda makes me doubt you even played. But that’s not my business or care. I have had spurts of boredom, it’s only natural. :)

  29. Marblecake says:

    Anybody else think this sounds a lot like ISIS? A terrorist group that is brutal and efficient, has a really fucked up ideology that people have to bend over backwards for in order to comply to it, and really understands terrorism judging by the fact that they only hit civilian targetsband never engage with opponents on a level footing.

    I sure as hell don’t agree with their actions, ruining someone else’s game in order to have fun is horrible. BUT. I’m loving the fact that something like this is even possible. Ahhhh, EVE. Come for the promise of freedom, leave because of the grind, continue reading its stories because there is no better story generator out there…

    • Kaely Kakes says:

      Oh please..not another idiot who can’t tell the difference between reality and a game. Isis kills people for real…Eve is a game…get a clue.

      • Marblecake says:

        I think you totally misunderstood me. I didn’t mean “oh no, they’re as bad as ISIS!”, I meant “wow, they actually act like a terrorist organization/religious zealots, how cool is it that this game allows something like that?”…..you know, without…uh…wanting to sound as if I think ISIS is cool or anything…

    • zeruel241 says:

      Not really ISIS, so much as a lesser form of behavior patterns seen in the likes of the Stanford Prison Experiment or a similar take on that by the BBC back in 2006. Namely, if you give individuals a role of power (real or imagined) and / or distance them from the other individuals they interact with, it becomes very easy for those with lesser ethical integrity to justify treating other people like mere things. In turn, peer pressure may sway yet others to act the same.

      As they say, power corrupts.

  30. vahnn says:

    Going into High-Sec and killing the living shit out of everyone in sight is awesome.

    Harassing people afterward behind the guise of eliminating afker and botters from until they submit to the stupid bullshit is… completely fucking stupid.

    It’s been so long since I’ve played… Does EVE have an ignore feature? Have these people ever tried… you know… not reading their messages?

    • Kaely Kakes says:

      Eve has, and always has had, a block feature. People just chose not to use it and instead make rl threats. It’s easy..right click on char, block…done…no tears to be had…no fool to make of one’s self…

      • check engine says:

        People can also make a choice to be a sportsman, make a kill and say “tough luck man, nice try though.”
        Instead of being a dick and goading someone into anger by verbally harassing them because it’s fun to get someone upset and then post it on a message board a pretend you have the moral high ground.

  31. zeruel241 says:

    This is an interesting read, yet part of me wonders if this piece might be unnecessarily give attention to those who would be better ignored. The hypocrisy and lack of ethics of these particular players possess is made quite evident, and it is amusing, but still. (The fact one particular player was stated as not being bothered by “whining and crying” yet is apparently plastering this commentary with defensive replies is even more amusing.)

    Admittedly though, this makes me ponder what CCP thinks of CONCORD in terms of the organization’s logic as a believable form of law enforcement. As at least one other commenter stated, it seems strange an agency like CONCORD would encounter this sort of activity and not eventually alter its tactics. Or perhaps the major NPC factions in the game world give more lip service to high-sec enforcement than they appear to? The question and potential answers are interesting at least, so far as potential immersion is concerned.

  32. Kaely Kakes says:

    Cute little attack there.. :) but your statement is not correct..I said I was not bothered by the insults and threats. You wouldn’t believe the verbal abuse and threats I have taken from those who are wrongly assumed the “good guys”. I defend what I stand for..both in game, and here. People don’t know the truth..only one sided rhetoric and assumptions. Does it bother me…no..when I close this page, it will be the last thing on my mind :)

    Concord is exactly like the real police…they do nothing until a crime is committed. Even if the police know a crime is going to be committed, they can do nothing until one is. Concord, like the real police, unfortunately, are nothing but a clean-up crew that shows up after the fact. Changing this mechanic in the game would created an imbalance favoring one side over another. This is not needed when something as simple as situational awareness would prevent 99% of all ganks. The responsibility lies with the player…not daddy CCP to coddle them. Being at the keyboard and not autopiloting with billions of isk in cargo would be a good start. :)

    • Carcer says:

      I’m going to assume that was a response to me – I’m afraid I’m going to have to be critical of your reading comprehension as well as your sexist attitudes. I’ll try to explain again more simply – you’re saying that you expect men, in comparison to women, to be more stoic and restrained, and it is sad that you (as a woman) seem to embody these qualities more than your victims do. That’s an awful attitude – this stereotype that women are the emotional ones and men must be reserved is a blight upon our society. Frankly, if you were getting upset by getting death threats and whatever else I’m sure has been thrown at you, that would be perfectly understandable regardless of whether you were a man or a woman and I wouldn’t criticise you for it (inherently, at least; the fact that you earn the ire by deliberately upsetting people would make you something of a hypocrite in that instance).

      Oh, and regarding the police – I don’t think you appreciate how lucky you are to live in a world where your assertation is demonstrably untrue. Police forces all over the world take proactive measures to prevent crimes that they know are going to occur, and conspiracy to commit a crime is still very much an offence under which you can be charged and punished. The world you seem to think exists – a world where I can stand across the road from a police officer while a known mugger who has mugged several people walks past the police officer, holding a knife in plain view, right up behind me and then stabs me and steals my wallet, to which the officer goes “aha, NOW I’ve got him” and gives chase while I bleed out on the floor – that’s a very terrible world to live in.

      Anyway, in any reasonable interpretation of the setting CODE would be declared a terrorist organisation and Concord would shoot them on sight as soon as they came through the gates (we’ve already established that as a police force concord don’t really seem to go in for the whole arresting thing, more’s the pity – maybe it would be a more effective deterrent if player characters got locked up for a while when Concord goes after them…)

      • Carcer says:

        That’s some hypocritical criticism of other people’s reading comprehension I’ve got there, but at least the thing about the police is actually relevant.

  33. LexxieJ says:

    Indeed. Instead you have a boring opinion. Well done!

  34. Ufofighter says:

    Part of the fun of small gang/solo pvp in eve is the occasional evemail of a victim. But invest your entire time to this objective, and at the same time try to hide this motivation under some kind of pitiful roleplay and twisted logic is sad.

    BTW CODE is considered an utterly shit in every aspect of the game by almost every player with an interest beyond afk mining and pve farming.

  35. kentonio says:

    A big part of the problem (and its been a problem for a very, very long time), is that a lot of the gankers don’t actually understand the wider gameplay and aspirations of the non-pvp sections of the EVE community. One of the wonders of EVE is that players can create communities and set out to achieve goals that go way beyond the obvious pew pew. There are groups running courier businesses, mining consortiums, drug cartels and a million other often quite niche operations.

    Many of these groups have their own very tight little communities of friends who are working towards long term goals in the game, rather than just signing up to be one of thousands in a big alliance. Many of them dream of one day claiming a system somewhere in null, and are happy to invest thousands of hours into trying to achieve that unlikely goal. Even if they don’t dream of null, they may well have ambitions within high sec to carve out their own little business. They’re perfectly happy, playing the game they paid for and trying to just have fun in a way that works for them.

    Then along comes a crew of gankers and blows up their nice mining ship or freighter they’ve saved up for for weeks. For many of them, they might be pissed off at the time, but they recognize that’s just EVE. Then the next week another ship gets blown up. Then the next week another ship. Now instead of being able to quietly just play the game they enjoy, they find they have to either completely change their playstyle in a way that makes the game incredibly annoying and dull to them, or just give up on their aspirations. People stop logging in, and those tight little communities of friends start breaking apart.

    CODE make a big deal out of claiming that its easy to avoid them, and they have the hard job. If you know anything how mining works in EVE you know this is laughable. It’s also true that CCP have always been clear that this kind of hi-sec gank gameplay is acceptable within the rules of EVE. The situation isn’t likely to change any time soon, but it’d be nice just once to hear someone from CODE have the balls to just admit that what they are doing makes EVE poorer for a large part of the community.

    • Ufofighter says:

      “…It’s also true that CCP have always been clear that this kind of hi-sec gank gameplay is acceptable within the rules of EVE. The situation isn’t likely to change any time soon…”

      About this…
      Active players (not subscribed ones, we don’t have data on them since 2012) and newborn players have fallen to 2008 levels (check this link to eve-offline.net).

      I think we could see a change on the suicide-gank mechanics very soon if the new nullsec overhaul creates a rich pvp environment to soften the blow. CODE-like corps are a nightmare to new players and (consequently) have a negative impact on revenues to CCP.

  36. check engine says:

    “This usually leads to further infractions, leading to further ganks, and begins a vicious cycle until a pilot finally breaks and agrees to abide or discovers some way to evade CODE altogether.”

    Or quits the game altogether. The EVE community is absolutely awesome.

  37. C0nt1nu1ty says:

    I’m not quite sure what to make of this. I used to play and have followed “news” from Eden for quite a long time. Yeah, these guys sound like trolls but so where GoonSwarm and the game made them play along, get organised and find a way to f**k with people in line with the games meta RP.

    I’ve been hunted by a hitman who was hired by an alliance that took a dislike to our Corp and I have been shot down by some ‘tard camping out by 0.0 warp gate when I was in nothing but a shuttle just because he could. Examples like these make me shrug to a degree and point out that it was only ever 1.0 space that was seen to be 100% safe and even when I was playing (back in 06) a lot of corps would say that the back end of 0.0 space was much safer.

    These guys sound like an interesting parallel to the Thuggee of India or possibly the revolutionary gangs of pre-Soviet east Asia. Very much the same kind of “I have my ideals and I will screw you over to achieve them” mentality. I suspect that CODE will fade eventually.

    As to issues with ganking I’d agree that it is predatory and the idea of there being a safe place to play in a non-combative way is very important. Maybe there could be something more akin to CONCORD convoys? Or maybe weapons free zones.

  38. check engine says:

    Yeah. The killing of miners in high sec is one thing. The bantering, harassing, and mocking to draw a reaction and then posting it on a website is kind of another. Sounds a little like bullying to me. Good to see Rock Paper Shotgun endorses it and partakes. Of course in two weeks there will be some teary eyed article on the dangers of on-line bullying.

    Kind of like they lament the portrayal of females in games and then post a tongue in cheek hipster review on the merits of Pregnant Barbie First Aid.

  39. Apocalypse says:

    The biggest issue has not been discussed in the article.
    The biggest flaw of eve is not that high sec is safe or not, but that ganking is safe and mining mechanics are broken.

    Against a good gank there is no real counterplay. Against a bad gank you simply warp away before they can touch you. Neither of that is important, because what is more important is that ganking has no mechanics for emergent gameplay afterwards. Gankers hide behind alts, there is no way to strike back at them. Unlike null sec empires CODE has no visible area to strike back against. There is no way to follow the flow of money that leads to the ganker characters, so there is no way to retaliate against the characters behind the organisation.

    Well, outside of starting a war against the goon swarm maybe, as they are the most likely candidate to finance a lot of this action, but the goon swarm has won the game as well already and no one really bothers with fighting them either, besides they have again tons of alts with income outside of null sec too, so we are back again to not be able to do any real damage.

    People say eve is harsh? It is not. “Bloodbath of B-R5RB, which saw over $300,000 USD go up in smoke in a single day” is still less than the involved players can farm in the same amount of time.

    You can lose months and years of work in eve, but for that very reason no one is actually risking this kind of resources and most losses are replaced faster than you can inflict damage to anyone. EVE is an universe were everyone gets richer everyday, because eve-players have driven the elimination of risk to perfection. We hide in the shadows, behind walls of alts, dummy corporation, holding corporations, fixers. We sell and buy new shadow identities (characters, alts) to stay as elusive as we can, and we use some prominent figurehead to show how great we are without ever exposing weaknesses to the public.

    The paranoia goes deep within eve, but it a concept that ultimately prevents from having any real consequences happen in the game, because all the smart players are literally untouchable.

    Attacking AFK miners is a just cause, but in the end it will be most likely futile, because ccp will never take away the ability of players to hide behind a wall of alts, so this will never lead to any real war or awaken of the large high sec population, because they know damn well that they never will be able to strike back.

    • alw says:

      And this is my other big reason for leaving Eve. Even if CCP had the will to try and fix the anonymity issue (which I don’t think they do, as they get more subs when people have more than one account), it’s impossible for them to do so. From there, it follows that there is no real accountability. People don’t have to live with the consequences of their decisions when they can simply jump to an alt instead. The only consequences are financial – whereas in real life, things like reputation and self-identity play a big role in governing how people act. When identities are basically disposable, it has a huge influence on how people interact with each other.

      I would absolutely love it if there were a similar game where people were somehow limited to one character (or at least one character at a time), but I really don’t see how it could be done.

  40. dauw says:

    So it’s a combination of the two most contemptible types of gamer: those who take the game they play way too seriously, and those whose idea of fun is to ruin somebody else’s. This mentality is one of the reasons why I’ve never been very interested in EVE.

  41. sujet says:

    I of II

    I’m happy not to be an EvE player – it sounds like a frightening time hole. But I do find the quite deliberate (?) attempts to import fascism into a computer game – particularly one that does not require you to do so– both fascinating and baffling. Aside from the very pathetic justifications for their behavior given above, let me spell out how ‘The New Order of Highsec’ has deliberately and openly tried to import and translate authoritarian ways of talking and acting, sometimes directly fascistic, into the structure of the EvE universe. Is it as bad a real fascism? – obviously not. Does that make it O.K.? You be the judge.

    Newsflash, everyone: “the New Order” (Neue Ordnung) is not some neutral term: it is the name the Nazis bestowed on their project for Europe. “The New Order of Highsec” is title analogous to (probably drawn from) “the New Order of Europe” proclaimed by the Nazis – the name of this fictional game organization is basically the retranslation of a Nazi motif into the lexicon of EvE online. In other words, it seems to me like these players are more or less aware that arbitrarily enforcing a code or racket in the game world on weaker players who personally are not into a more belligerent play style has its ‘real-world’ precedents in fascism… The first line of the Code of Conduct makes no attempt to conceal that it’s first aim is to aggrandize itself on the backs of the miners: “Although profit is a primary motive of my new business…”

    This sort of ‘play fascism in online role-play’ extends well into their code:

    “The New Halaima Code of Conduct is the product of a truly democratic process. It was written by the entire community. As Supreme Protector of Halaima and Saviour of Highsec, I represent all of the individual members of the community and acted as proxy when drafting the Code.”

    The notion of representation in play is basically analogous to the one in Nazi ideology– according to the Führerprinzip, the Führer ‘represents’ the entire will of the German people although there is no democratic process at all to verify that. How about that.

    And again:
    “Respect for elected officials. As Saviour of Highsec, I acted as proxy when electing myself Supreme Protector. Miners should respect the will exercised by the people when they made this choice.”

    Note that Hitler was promoted the ‘Saviour of the German Volk…’ Anyway, these sorts of statements redeploy in the terms of the game the contorted arguments through which anti-democratic and authoritarian regimes legitimated themselves in the bloody history of the past century.

  42. sujet says:

    II of II
    Meanwhile, the argument that the code of conduct is a living, breathing, organic document is analogous to Nazi forms of anti-constitutional thought based on the notion that ‘the law’ should not reside in a text but is subject to the discretion of the Führer or even that the only law is that of the biological struggle for life.

    “Since the Code is a living, breathing document, it’s not possible to fully enumerate all of the rules.”

    Basically, this means that “The Code” is not a code at all, in the sense of a written document like those in constitutional regimes – it includes rules that cannot be enumerated but you can be found in violation of them and sanctioned for them.

    The whole point made by defenders here, “EvE online is a harsh and violent universe, so anything we do is o.k. and ‘natural'” is easily analogous to the Nazi Weltanschauung of irreducible conflict and violence based in geopolitical thought and social darwinism.

    So basically, it’s play fascism, promotes fascistic roleplaying elements in addition to predatory behavior, and probably James 3:15 is well aware of the fact that his RP is fascistic. What’s wild is to see these players do so much to cultivate a different image in these comments — do they just not understand or are they too uncomfortable to admit what it’s actually about? Elements of the name and in the ‘Code’ directly redeploy fascist motifs or titles, ‘New Order’ being the most obvious, from the Nazis. I’d note that there’s no racist persecution here –which would probably result in a quick ban –but the miners are subject to the discretion of the (non-)code of the ‘New Order’ so in that respect they take on more of a feudal mentality towards the miners as inferior slaves (Knechten), completed by the demand that people arbitrarily attacked by the New Order show signs of deference.

    Who cares? — After all, it’s only EvE online. Is ‘play fascism’ that big of a deal? I guess I find it more than distasteful and that a bunch of gamers wants to RP elements of fascism and force a certain play-style on others — i.e., exercise power over weaker players who don’t share their priorities. The analogy to CS is implausible since CS is advertised as an antagonistic shooting game, while the whole point touted by EvE developers is that you can play EvE however you want; obviously that is going to up against limits when other players systematically want to enforce their arbitrary standards on you //because they are arbitrary.// And that’s the issue: it’s both for profit and for the sake of the enjoyment of enforcing arbitrary standards of deference on weaker players. If you roleplay fascist ideology, it’s obviously not because you want to develop a systematically rational defense of your actions or form some ‘better EvE’ (‘A world without miners’ –I guess the structure of the game does not lend itself, thankfully, to some sort of ‘final solution’ in that regard, though).

  43. Stayche says:

    It’s just douches being douches. I’m not sure they’re hiding behind the the CODE thing or not, but you really should just come out and say that you get a kick out of annoying and bullying people rather than dressing it up in some pseudo-rp nonsense. It’s Eve, nobody cares if you’re an arsehole to everyone.

  44. Mr Coot says:

    “They wouldn’t give us an answer”. Well, it’s kind of obvious what the issue is here. Emergent gameplay is all good and well, but if your emergent gameplay involves strangling the goose that lays the golden eggs of subs and PLEX purchase, CCP are going to take steps to curtail your activities… even if they don’t overtly say that.

  45. Ebon Hawk says:

    “You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation.”
    – Plato

  46. Zock says:

    Minerbumping.com: “A little backstory. Steven has been researching the New Order for some time now. As we are a transparent, welcoming community, we gave him full access: He interviewed some prominent Agents, participated in freighter-ganking fleets, and even took it upon himself to enforce the Code and sell mining permits. Now that’s journalism–embedded reporters in wartime don’t normally get to fire upon the enemy! You might have seen Steven’s character hanging out in the MinerBumping channel.”

    That much about the habit of mean backstabbing CODE has developed. ‘Embedded reporters’ is as low as journalism can sink. It shows, unfortunately.