Chris Roberts Explains Star Citizen’s FPS Delay

You'll get to shoot this naughty man's face off.

Star Marine, the FPS side of Star Citizen [official site], was supposed to launch in April. The eventual grand plan includes integrating first-person face-shooting into the wider Star Citizen world, letting folks board ships and murder crews. As you’ll have guessed by now, the barebones initial release did not come in April.

Creator Chris Roberts explained in his latest Letter From the Chairman over the weekend that it’s been held back by a few technical problems and simply not being good enough to make a strong first impression.

Most of the technical problems boil down to “networking, yeah?” and I shan’t go into them so go read the letter if you’re curious. On the gameplay side, Roberts says problems are more about the feel, and “One of the biggest issues on this front is getting the visuals right.” They want to use proper full-body animation, not ‘faking’ the first-person view, but this is taking more time to get right than expected.

They’re also going over everything in general, adding new characters and weapons, and tweaking map lighting. “These kinds of passes aren’t as sexy as building a new spaceship or firing a new weapon…but they’re essential to providing the kind of detail and gameplay we want out of Star Marine,” Roberts says. Turns out, first impressions have more impact than they’d expected:

“Arena Commander, for instance, ‘shipped’ with what we thought would be a very early version of the control system, and we’ve certainly heard no end of the debate since! Like it or not, we know that with Star Marine we need to release a build that at the very least shows people where we want to go and not just what we were able to do before a clock ran out.”

Roberts insist that a delay for Star Marine doesn’t mean the same delay for other parts of Star Citizen, as thanks to their squillions of crowdfunded dollars ($84,532,554 and counting) they have a load of studios and teams working on different parts. He still doesn’t say when Star Marine might launch, though.

His update also talks about Squadron 42, which has been shooting body and face motion capture for ten weeks now. He says the shoot for that will end up even longer than Wing Commander IV.

Here, this presentation from March focused on the FPS side, culmainting in live team manshoots at the 30-minute mark:

188 Comments

  1. BlueDragon says:

    Star CItizen coming this never.

    • rabbit says:

      Star Citizen: Forever

    • Xzi says:

      We’d certainly be lucky to see it finished by 2020, I think. By which time everybody will be playing a highly patched and highly refined Elite: Dangerous or No Man’s Sky. Or just be back to not giving a flying shit about space games.

      • RyanC says:

        Go to Steam, look up Elite:Dangerous. “Repetitive” Go on, do tell me about the “‘highly patched, highly refined” version of Elite Dangerous that will be out.

        By the way, the space combat is available for both games, and Star Citizen blows Elite out of the water.

        No Man’s Sky, is on track to be the same thing. Go to random planet. Name a random plant. Play a little Minecraft in space, blast off before Sentinels attack you. That game has exactly ONE role: explorer.

        This is a AAA-title that is two years old. Anyone who expects a polished game to be out by now, is the kind of person who through their ridiculous expectations, clearly knows nothing about game design.

        • *Junon says:

          Settle down, Chris.

        • Apocalypse says:

          Have not play SC for a few months, but to be honest, the Space Combat in Elite did blow SC to dust.

          And I actually do like fast more action orientated space combat ‘sims’ more than the slow style of Elite. But Star Citizens thruster dynamics, weapon, shield, speed and target profile balance simply did blow hard. It was more Descent than Wing Commander … and even that would have been an insult to Descent.

          Hearing from my squad mates, these balance issues seem to have gotten even worse, and people seem to call the game still “mouse game”.

          At the same time Elite was kind of thin, especially in the multiplayer functionallity, so I have not touched it for months either, even when I should have as the have released their wings / multiplayer and squad combat features by now. Hmm, maybe next weekend.

          • RyanC says:

            Space Combat in Elite, is the ultimate in shortcuts. When you turn left in ED, your ship just turns left on some pre-defined range of motion. When you pull up, your nose goes up based on the fact you pulled the joystick up, NOT because a bunch of smaller thrusters on the botton of the ship fired. Any chimp can program a stick to go up or down when you pull it up or down. That was the whole point of Wing Commander, Tie Fighter, etc.

            When you turn left in SC, a number of small thrusters on the right side of your ship, fire in tandem moving the mass of your ship left because it’s space and Newton’s laws have not been repealed. It’s actually realistic.

            Regardless, people who are actually good at flight and have figured out a setup that affords them 6DOF, absolutely blow the socks off people who think proper space combat would actually be flying in space as fast as they can, because that’s what Star Wars taught them.

            Put it this way: If real-life fighter pilots didn’t have to continually overcome gravity, their jets would probably float motionless in a line, and the combat that ensued would be much closer to the dodging and weaving in a FPS. They only go forward to generate kinetic and potential energy, which matters in atmospheric flight but has ZERO meaning in space.

            Anyway, with realistic components, when your ship takes damage and parts start falling off or failing, if any of those thrusters go offline then your ship’s handling will mimic the actual damage.

          • Asurmen says:

            And that doesn’t necessarily make it better RyanC, just different.

          • RyanC says:

            Here’s a Steam Review from someone who put in 431 hours into Elite Dangerous:

            4/10

            this is gonna be strange, this is a game thats plenty fun and has alot of potential. and ive certainly played it ALOT

            but thats just the thing, the thing that kills this game isnt the actual game, but how frontier handles the game. its constant changes of core mechanics, nerfs to the left and right. obvious attempts to steer the players into doing things a certain way. one day theres a patch that raises the repair costs, next day they have reverted back to the old cost cause it didnt work. two weeks later, off we go again and they quadruple the repair cost. two days later its reverted.

            this is just an example but its the way the whole game works it seems they dont have a roadmap laid out internally and whoever is the captain of this ship is doing a ♥♥♥♥ poor job. theres no distinct feeling of where the game is headed, or what type of game they want it to be.

            but one thing is certain THIS GAME ISNT FINISHED, ITS NOT FEATURE COMPLETE. and really the best way to describe it is that its early access

            and thats why i cant recommend it to anyone, its sold as a finished product and it has the price that comes with that. but the ugly truth is this is nowhere near finished, in the beginning ull be all like “oh wow this is amazing” but after 20-30 hours played ull start to notice how unfinished and ill designed some parts of the game is.

            design is a key problem, since they dont know where they are going with the game it feels like modules slapped together instead of a well designed and though through game.

            dont get me wrong , the devs are good at what they are doing, each on his own. but they dont seem to have anyone trying to bring this project together. so it results on a very contradictive game, and gameplay

            the economy is very static across the “living breathing galaxy” and they do everything to nudge players in the “right” direction instead of having a free gameplay, this is done though what you could call “taxation”, bountys/cr per hour/ship setups/and core reputation system mechanics

            this could be fixed if they sat down and made a clear roadmap, but right now they seem more interested to flesh out the xbone release. to me this whole game smells like money problems.

            “♥♥♥♥ we ran out of cash, 1.quick realease,2.just basic bandaid patching til we get another version out to cash in on”

            TL:DR early access game (despite the lack of that tag), you pay to beta test a game that doesnt have a clear goal where its going and no indication that it ever will

          • rabbit says:

            god you’re fucking weird.

          • Iskariot says:

            You must have an awful lot invested in Star Citizen RyanC. You sound a bit panicky.

        • Viggo says:

          I like the stellar arguments brought up against you. You’re clearly in way over your head.

    • metric day says:

      This will flounder and flop around like a beached whale like all of Chris Roberts’ other projects since the late 90s. He’s a drugged up hasbeen and a joke in Hollywood, so funny to see him running around pretending to be a director with his mocap idiocy. Good luck with that, Chris!

      • Arglebargle says:

        It’s not like there aren’t good examples of Roberts’ overpromising and under-delivering, going way overbudget, and being tremendously late.

        Over the last year and a half, I’ve talked privately with ten friends who worked at Origin Systems with him. None have anything nice to say about the man, and none respect him. One went so far as to call him a narcissistic egomaniac who always believes what he’s saying no matter its relationship to reality.

        But he does seem to have a cult following who seem to think all his games sprang whole from his forehead.

        • Timbrelaine says:

          Star Citizen is interesting, and I hope it’s an amazing game come release day, sometime March 2042. But it is hard to imagine any real game being as popular as the imagined one that has secured a seemingly inexhaustible supply of pre-orders.

        • Lenderz says:

          You mean the molyneux-virus is spreading? :o

          • Apocalypse says:

            Nah, I would rather say they both had it right from the beginning. And I would say that both had it somewhat under control in their early years. Peter Molyneux seems to be reaching the terminal stage of this disease. With Roberts it is quite unsure if the patient will show any more symptoms or not.

            On a less zynical note, I guess it all depends on the people around them. If enough of their co-workers are calling them out on bullshit than either of those visionaries should be fine. Roberts has for sure enough budget and enough ideas. He has as well enough experience and most backers are aware that Roberts is always notorious for being late, but being late is not really a big issue for a game that will soon reach 100 million dollars founding and that is already in early access. They will not run out of money anytime soon and they are not in a hurry to release unfinished stuff and abandon it afterwards either.

            The biggest issue with SC might be the fanboys that brown-nose the devs a lot. At the other hand there are quite a lot people in the SC community to criticize their beloved game quite harsh as well, so overall the community might be more of a plus than a negative for the game development … hopefully. Such things are always problematic.

  2. HilariousCow says:

    ” not ‘faking’ the first-person view” – this is a mistake.

    The best game feel will come from rooting your control scheme in the most direct way possible – not through a billion different methods of filtering/secondary motion (intended or unintended) which make the input response feel garbled and disconnected.

    • BobbyDylan says:

      Have you used the Hangar module? FP movement in it is unbelievably bad. The fact that they wrest control of you POV from you every time you enter or exit a seat / vehicle / ladder / pretty much anything is absurd.

      • HilariousCow says:

        I could tell just by watching that they fucked it.

      • Premium User Badge

        Ninja Dodo says:

        I mostly like what they’ve released so far, but that is one part I *cannot stand*. Who seriously thought waiting for the same unskippable interaction animation a million times would not get tiresome? They really need to replace all of those cinematic interaction animations with interactive contextual action that doesn’t take away player control (let players use regular movement for getting into ships, don’t hijack view, etc).

        You’d think this would be an obvious thing to fix but then again, I posted a suggestion to this effect on the official forums and got all of zero replies, so who knows?

        Thankfully you can access the Arena Commander module via the main menu, bypassing all interaction anims, but I really really hope they fix this for the game proper…

        • drinniol says:

          Funny, starting seems to be exactly what you’re asking for, what’s the problem?

          • Premium User Badge

            Ninja Dodo says:

            I don’t understand what you mean with that sentence. “Starting” is what in this context? Or are you saying that since the end result is the same (the game starts in the case of accessing AC) there is no issue? The problem is unskippable mini cutscenes interrupting gameplay at every minor interaction, interactions that can and should be integrated into the core gameplay of moving around and doing stuff. Making moving up a ladder or walking up a ramp and through a door a part of the movement system is not that complicated.

            And if you absolutely must have the player touching walls and stuff just have it be a contextual thing based on the location of the player that seamlessly layers into player movement, not “press X to cutscene”.

        • Chaz says:

          The Chronicles of Riddick: Escape from Butcher Bay had probably the best first person mode I’ve seen in a game. You could look down and see your body and your hands as you climbed up ladders and it never felt awkward or got in the way of the game. In fact it felt really good and made you feel grounded in the game rather than just a disembodied gun floating around.

          They should just copy that and it’d be great.

      • metric day says:

        It just proves Roberts’ lies and sales pitch about VR was just a bunch of hot air.

    • RyanC says:

      You have no idea what he means by “faking the first person”.

      In certain FPS games (Crysis 3!) when you can’t see your character’s body, they can stretch your neck to ridiculous lengths so you can peek over and around stuff. It works fine, but if other people can see you it looks ridiculous.

  3. Love Albatross says:

    This thing is…I’m not going to say ‘scam’, not unless Roberts does a runner with all the cash…but it’s increasingly looking like an enormously badly managed and ill considered project that’s probably going to turn out to be massively disappointing on every level.

    People have given $84m to a guy who has a track record for overpromising, underdelivering and – by his own admission – trying to do to much. And he’s got this money with no oversight. There is nobody to tell him to stop promising the moon on a stick.

    If you’re still giving them money (no, it’s not ‘investing’) you need to realise that this company is now being funded by the sale of concepts of ships. That is their business plan. Compare how much effort they put in to making adverts and pretty for fake spaceships to what has actually been seen of the game. And that’s because if the crowd funding stopped now they could be in real trouble. $84m isn’t that much given the size of their organisation, they’ve got something like 300 people employed in studios across the world. If the only source of income ceases and they can’t get a game out quick sharp, they’re fucked. We’ve already seen this many times with other crowd funded projects.

    I’m skeptical we’ll even see much of a game out of this. Very best case scenario, something of Squadron 42 comes out and is fun like a modern day Wing Commander. But it’s also episodic and unless it sells by the truckload I’d be surprised if they ever finish it as planned. And how many people out there are left to buy it who haven’t already shoved a bunch of cash down CIG’s hungry money hole? The fact they are struggling to make an FPS using an FPS engine is not a good sign.

    • Canazza says:

      It’s Double Fine all over again. Except instead of scattershotting their funding over multiple games/kickstarters/early access and hoping one of them will stick, Roberts is ‘focusing’ on one game with a shittone of what are essentially mini-games.

      At least with DF, you could say “I like the look of Spacebase DF-9, I’ll dump some money into that” so you’re only disappointed when that one game got abandoned, rather than dumping money on one game and hoping the bit you want gets finished first.

    • BobbyDylan says:

      Whoda thunk that opening 7 studios in 5 countries to make one game was a bad idea?

      • blacksun_redux says:

        Major AAA games do that ALL THE TIME. Ever read a game’s end credits?

        • Watcher_Of_The_Skies says:

          The difference is that they don’t do that for one game in a short space of time. It’s incredibly difficult to coordinate big games over multiple studios, even for experienced studio’s like Rockstar. My gut feeling is this game is overextended and overly ambitious and lacks focud. But who knows, maybe they’re going to pull it all together and it will be amazing. At this point however, I’m doubtful.

          Even that huge budget can be burnt through extremely quickly.

    • Grendael says:

      If the worst comes to the worst they got arena commander which feels as much of a game as warthunder (j haven’t played warthunder in a while so i could be wrong)

      I get what you are saying. I am still confident it will turn out well. I gave what i could afford to lose and i expect most did. If you do some quick maths and believe their funding stats. Its less than $100 per person. That’s not crazy.

      Its a lot of money for any game. I think funding is continuing to pay staff costs on a daily basis. I.e. Their cashflow is in the black by my reckoning.

      I am confident we will get something cool i think they will announce no modding and no private servers though.

      Sorry for this disjointed post. To summarise i am confident but also not zealous like some

      • Love Albatross says:

        > Its less than $100 per person. That’s not crazy.

        Not when you break it down like that, no, but it’s not an equal split. Their ardent fans are scary, some have been spending tens of thousands. There was a post on their forum from someone complaining that a friend ended up splitting with his wife because he threw all their money into it.

        • Grendael says:

          Yeah ive seen that. And believe it. i know people have everything available which is like $15000. Good for them if they can afford it.

          To the outliers who cant afford what they spend. If it wasnt star citizen it would be something else.

          Can’t blame SC for the supporters poor money management. My point was taking a mean, it’s not madness overall. The average joe has given a modest amount.

        • vahnn says:

          I haven’t heard of that one, but damn.

          Guys who drop thousands isn’t entirely uncommon, though. Some ships are upwards of 250, 400, 500 bones… Buying three or four will set you back a bit.

          I pledged initially for the 300i and also immediately picked up a Cutlass Black, so that’s $160 from me. I was rolling in the dough at the time, so it’s no biggie, but after a couple years I will now hold off on spending more money on it and I’ve also ceased to be supremely optimistic about the project.

          But uh… Hold onto your money, folks!

          • jonfitt says:

            The cost of ships worries me deeply. I backed the game on KS at some low level, and I’m still waiting for the finished open world game or Squadron 42 to start playing.
            I want to either play a campaign in the Wing Co style that progresses you through ships and locations, or have an Elite/X style open world where I can trade/fight my way through the toys.
            .
            But the real world cost of these ships points to a probable huge grind to get anywhere in the finished game! How can you charge hundreds of real dollars for anything that could be obtained in game in 40 hours, 100 hours? I’m not looking to play something like a second job, I want to put in some hours and play with some virtual toys.
            .
            I thought I was backing an Elite/Freespace style game not an MMO which demands weeks of grind for top level gear.

          • sekullbe says:

            I paid the base $30 or whatever to fly an internet spaceship and I don’t have any plans to spend any more unless there’s an interesting expansion to an existing game. My concerns are about the same as jonfitt above; how can they make a cool spaceship achievable to someone like me inside the game without pissing off someone who paid five hundred smackers for it?

            Best I can come up with is that their spaceship is guaranteed and if mine blows up then I’m out my umpty-million spacebucks, but I don’t see the game working well without some kind of in-game insurance at that level either.

        • TacticalNuclearPenguin says:

          The average is still important.

          Sure, a subset of people among those who spent a lot might be considered crazy, but others just simply sit on an unbelievable pile of cash.

          Some might consider a new 50k car a bargain just as much as someone else getting an used crappy one for 2k.

      • Apocalypse says:

        If they gonna announce that than I am going for a refund. It will be Elite all over again *grin*

    • Rumpelstilskin says:

      I think it’s the people’s fault. They just drowned RSI in money.

    • 2late2die says:

      You guys do realize that these kinds of delays – due to having to restructure systems, rethink approaches, recode algorithms – are common to large development project right? The only thing different with SC is that you’re being told about them. Actually, there’s another thing different with SC – since the devs push these features to backers much earlier than typical “beta” stages, they also find some issues that many development teams don’t discover till the game is in beta or even released, meaning they spend extra time addressing those as well.

      Now, I’m not saying this doesn’t mean they won’t end up screwing it up, but you also can’t start crying doom and gloom every time there’s a bump on the road. For my money, so far they’ve done a good job of releasing new content, fixing major bugs and issues, addressing community concerns and when there are delays, being open about them. That’s exactly what I expect from a good development cycle.

      • RyanC says:

        They release information every single week, week after week, updating people on the status of the game…to go with monthly updates on the status of each studio involved. The only way anyone can doubt the progress of this game, is if they rely on updates from gaming sites.

        FFS, every Wednesday a guy from the debugging team goes over a major bug in the game, and shows you how they track and fix it. That guy has more coding experience in his pinky, than the combined experience of any gaming site comments board…but hey, internet commenters know best.

        Anyway. this article was released yesterday. Backers knew about it on Saturday. It’s not news to us.

    • Arglebargle says:

      Dev friend of mine gave the rough guestimate of $36 million a year for development costs for SC, based on size of the team. This does not include any add on for Roberts being profligate and over-reaching. I’d lay good odds that his mocap ‘directing’ had more to do with trying to hobnob with Andy Serkis than it did with any other need for him to be there.

  4. fish99 says:

    Most people don’t even notice that there’s separate animations for 1st and 3rd person in other games.

    • HilariousCow says:

      Yeah, for good reason, but the simulation-uber-alles approach of this project means they’ll never accept that less-is-more when it comes to virtual proprioception.

      • rabbit says:

        which I fear is going to be an enormous mistake in the long run. How many people would actually care if different anims – if ‘faking’ first person – were employed, but it felt good? None, I reckon.
        Everyone will notice when the animations all mathc up nicely but it handles like … like ARMA as a result.

        This is not something which they ought slow everything else up on account of.

        • BobbyDylan says:

          Ironic that they want Arma like FP combat, but the space sim side of it is about as engaging as clicking on a box on a screen.

          • rabbit says:

            Have no experience at all with it – it’s that bad? Any positives when compared to elite or something ?

            I really liked Elite til I hit ‘that point’ in my progression and then just never logged in again, to this day. Been almost a year now. And after that I thought maybe that SC would be what elite shoulda been but (at the time at least) wasn’t. I guess not though?

            Are its problems likely to be rectifiable?

          • BobbyDylan says:

            Yeah, I’d say it is. It’s very Much Freelancer 2 at the moment. Aim your guns, and the ship flies itself. It’s very boring, I’ve seen flash games with more depth and complexity. The combat is arguably “more realistic” than Elite, but it’s a whole hell of a lot less fun.

            The ship destruction is fantastic, however. Damage states are brilliant. But again, the UI and low TTK make it pretty much a non-feature rather than making combat feel rewarding.

            It’s a pitty.

          • vahnn says:

            Yes, the degree of freedom of movement in SC is far more realistic than in ED, however some aspects of the ship handling leave me confused in SC, such as when your pilot will blackout/redout. It almost seems arbitrary as to when it happens, or at least inconsistent. You’re piloting a ship at 300 kph and then hold the boost key and tap reverse thrusters to slow down to 0 in less than a second, that’s some fucking extreme G’s for a person to go through. And NOTHING. Then you’ll be flying at 300 kph and pulling up for a not-too-tight turn–or so you think, because you start to blackout when you would have thought you were fine.

            Aside from the questionable physics in SC, I almost think I prefer ED’s take on spaceship flight; ships handle more like atmospheric planes. They can rotate and pitch up/down very quickly, but rotation on the x plane (yaw) is very slow and sluggish. Not, it’s most likely not how ships would be controlled in the future, but it makes dogfighting a much more engaging affair with much more emphasis on outmaneuvering your opponent.

            I want to believe that ship-to-ship combat in SC can be much more exciting and tactical in “real-world” scenarios, but being dropped into a small arena and already having your target locked and close to weapons range doesn’t leave much room for fancy stuff.

          • Lizarmi00 says:

            You get a blackout or redout when comes out or goes to the head, respectively. And that only happens if you pull the ship up or down. If you pull up the blood builds up in the eyes and you see red, if you pull down you the blood goes to the legs you get blackout.

          • gunny1993 says:

            When was the last time you played? Those sound like the complaints people were having about 7 months ago before they brought in the new targeting systems, flight modes and UIs

          • derbefrier says:

            BobbyDylan is greatly exaggerating. I am not going to say you cant play that way at the most basic of skill levels and do okay against the easy AI in vanduul swarm but if you play like that against any halfway competent pilot in PvP you will get wrecked. For anyone who PvP fairly regularly those types of players are basically free points. Roberts has always said the game will be easy to pick up and hard to master and that’s the direction the game is heading. Anyone can pick up a mouse and keyboard and kill some stuff in vanduul swarm and have fun but PvP is a whole other ballgame. Thats were you can really see how skill will factor into the game. There has emerged a subset of players in thew community that doesn’t like this approach though. They want a pure sim and have very specific, unwavering opinions on what makes a “true sim” and this is the kind of rhetoric they use to try and get people to side with them who dont know any better. The game is just as much of a space sim as Elite is but they are taking a different approach.

          • subedii says:

            I would strongly recommned people check out Maniacal Ginger’s channel. He goes in-depth into the nature of the flight and combat model and how to win your dogfights. He’s also very concise (unlike a lot of youtubers)

            link to youtube.com

          • metric day says:

            There will NOT be Arma-like combat in this game. No review of the FPS module will describe it as remotely Arma-like because the devs they contracted to do the job are bumbling amateurs, the guy they sent to oversee them quit for Blizzard, and they are left mumbling about netcode trying to pick up the pieces while Roberts prances around pretending he’s George Lucas against a greenscreen. You’re telling me this is a formula for tactical, Arma-like gameplay? Yeah right.

            The defenders will bleat about it being an Alpha when it’s released, but just like AC it will be broken and just as moronic and not-Arma-at-all a full year later.

          • blacksun_redux says:

            Maybe you should strive to be more than a basic mouse and keyboard user.

          • subedii says:

            I’m actually kind of curious as to whether he thinks he’s an awesome troll getting and getting a rise out of people, or whether he’s genuinely that angsty as a matter of course.

        • P.Funk says:

          “Everyone will notice when the animations all mathc up nicely but it handles like … like ARMA as a result.”

          So whats wrong with Arma? A game where you can’t run backwards at full speed and shoot people in the head! Oh the horror!

          • rabbit says:

            The problem is that movement in ARMA feels akin to being an octopus dressed up & trying to act like a human soldier

          • RobotsForBreakfast says:

            “The problem is that movement in ARMA feels akin to being an octopus dressed up & trying to act like a human soldier”

            Nah, mate, you’re thinking of Octodad. ;)

  5. James says:

    On the other hand Frontier are pumping out updates for Elite: Dangerous, so I’ll just play that.

    • rabbit says:

      Have they added any depth yet ?

      • Grendael says:

        Not that I’ve seen, this is my hope for star citizen

        • rabbit says:

          Seems that E:D and SC are both flawed in (almost) equal and opposite ways

          Well … SC much more so right now. But E:D is definitely not what a lot of people hoped for, myself included.

          • Grendael says:

            I dip into ED. Really enjoy it for a day or so then put it to bed for another few months. It’s worth the money though.

          • tomimt says:

            Was Elite promised to be anything else than it’s now though? It’s pretty much Elite 1 with some MMO elements into it, though I never did follow the KS for it, so I don’t know what they promised other than that.

            Granted, some aspects of E:D, like Powerplay are pretty dull, but I do think as a whole it’s a fun game to run around the universe and do what ever.

          • subedii says:

            Was Elite promised to be anything else than it’s now though?

            Singleplayer for one thing.

            Just sayin’.

          • c-Row says:

            Singleplayer for one thing.

            Which it is if you desire so. Offline mode is the word you are looking for.

          • Zenicetus says:

            It’s not much of a singleplayer game in terms of the current content, unless you have a massive amount of patience for grinding into new ships as a goal, or sightseeing. Has potential in that direction though, so I’m still interested. Just not playing it for now.

          • rabbit says:

            “Offline mode is the word you are looking for.”
            Offline mode is 2 words

      • bill says:

        There is a limit to how much depth you can get for a game that is about flying around in an empty space. This is why Space Sims died out in the first place (and I say this as a big fan of Tie Fighter etc…)

        • Apocalypse says:

          Interesting space and interesting combat scenarios help a lot to create content.
          Atmosphere, immersive gameplay and engaging story help a lot as well, as TIE-Fighter proofs even today *g*

          Elite was at half-bad in most of those categories, there was potential, but they lacked time, budget and dedication to hose things. Might be a lot better by now. I really should start the game again this weekend.

    • Love Albatross says:

      Frontier’s plan seems to have been to get the core of the game out first – making sure that the spaceship flying that underpins it is bang on – then to add extra details and content. I’ve gotten bored of what’s there now tbh, but I can’t deny that flying stuff is fun as heck and I’m keeping a close eye on it as updates add more bulk.

      • rabbit says:

        Been my plan too. Only I hoped for a bit more than just ‘extras’ – the bulk of the game is missing, imo.
        But it’s a nice foundation.

        • Love Albatross says:

          Yeah, agreed. I think I’m most frustrated by the lack of interesting missions. It seems like that would be a relatively trivial area to improve, but what’s there now is severely disappointing. Right now it’s a game in which you need to make your own fun, which is fine but not always what I’m looking for.

          • rabbit says:

            Where you need to make your own fun but (at least when I last played) are severely limited in your options with which to do so.

            Will be keepin me fingers crossed with ya though bro!

        • sekullbe says:

          Whenever I try ED again, I enjoy it for an hour or so then start thinking “This is awfully pretty, but now I really want to play X3:AP again.”

      • Watcher_Of_The_Skies says:

        I suspect Frontier’s development plan in the long term will prove very wise. They’ve released a working game that despite being far from complete is solid in many ways and with updates to come it will be far in advance of SC.

      • RyanC says:

        “Frontier’s plan seems to have been to get the core of the game out first – making sure that the spaceship flying that underpins it is bang on – then to add extra details and content.”

        Star Citizen’s plan seems to be to get the core gameplay elements out first – making sure that the spaceship flying and first person shooting that underpins it is bang on – then to add the extra details and content.

        But I’m sure you’ll tell me it’s so different.

        • rabbit says:

          if only game development came to them as easily as does thinking of new opportunities to charge people money

          • RyanC says:

            Pointless comment is pointless.

            The game is actually well designed. The Persistent Universe director is already working on the MMO aspects. The next flight improvement is the one where people can operate multi-crew ships. Dynamic missions are part of the game. We’ve already seen what planetside looks like, and there are plenty of AI NPCs who carry our a variety of roles.

            But enjoy your watered down, repetitive ED experience. Seems like a blast.

          • rabbit says:

            I’m not even arguing for E:D. That’s what you don’t seem to get … I bought E:D a year or so ago, played for a couple months, haven’t played since. It’s a good idea with bits done well and lots not done. I have invested £40 into it and I am happy to accept that and identify it as a problem. You on the other hand seem incapable of a) acknowledging the enormous fucking craterous dents in SC’s armour and b) understanding that not everything has to be a battle of who can out fanboy everyone else. I’m not rooting FOR E:D, I’m just using the evidence on display to be critical of SC.

    • Asurmen says:

      And yet we’re still waiting for the game to appear other than a grind. There’s a middle ground to be had between the two extremes.

      • jonfitt says:

        I don’t think you’ve even seen the tip of the grind iceberg with SC yet.
        Best guess on credits per hour is that a 275,000 space bucks Constellation would take 60 hours to earn, but many expect that to rise significantly.

    • Bull0 says:

      Seems like they’re going to finish making Star Citizen *before* they release it, but enjoy playing your hollow shell over there

      • Love Albatross says:

        Seems like Star Citizen is wasting time and money on pointless minigames and fantasy concepts while lacking the solid foundations they’d need to build this grand dream they’ve sold everyone.

        ED may be barebones, but a lot of what is there is really great and it’s not hard to see how they could build on it.

        • Bull0 says:

          Yeah, I look forward to seeing all this stuff you think E:D is going to add to the “solid foundation” since news feeds are the only thing left to go in before beta ends. The only difference I can see here is Star Citizen’s going to keep developing until there’s a full game there, E:D have done just enough and will then call it a day. The fact that you prefer that approach is funny but not a position I feel like I should take seriously.

          • Love Albatross says:

            You can find it as funny as you like when they “call it a day”. Though, erm, that hasn’t happened yet so it seems somewhat futile to base your argument on that. So far Frontier’s been releasing chunky updates, and if I were a keen supporter of Star Space Toilet Citizen I’d not be too quick to mock other games for their lack of content when there is jack shit to show for $84m dollars besides hopes and dreams.

            You let me know when CIG release anything of substance and we can return to this topic.

          • Bull0 says:

            From what I can see they’re developing a big, complex sim to a predefined roadmap and schedule (and the schedule is drifting now, so we’ve got a detailed explanation as to why). Meanwhile Frontier have developed some extremely basic and devoid of content – and I’m loving your optimism but the last dev update literally says the only thing left to add before beta ends (eg feature complete) is improved newsfeeds so why you think they’re going to keep iterating indefinitely is anyone’s guess?

            And FWIW (approximately nothing) I’m not a fan of SC, I just don’t let superiority from fans of the crap space combat demo wearing Elite’s face get a free pass because their hollow lump of crap has actually released. I mean, bravo.

          • Asurmen says:

            Bull0, because the devs have said they’re supporting it well beyond release?

          • subedii says:

            Star Space Toilet Citizen

            Someone somewhere probably thinks this is a witty way to debate.

            They’re mistaken.

          • Bull0 says:

            @Asurmen fair point but even then, “release X and support it later with undeclared stuff” is less of a good thing for the buyer than “release X later with everything we said it’d have in it”

          • hotmaildidntwork says:

            I feel compelled to point out that there has been some discrepancy in the past regarding what the devs said and what the devs did regarding Frontier and Elite.

          • Asurmen says:

            Which is irrelevant seeing as proof is in the pudding and it’s still being updated.

      • rabbit says:

        I find it really weird and obnoxious that you are condescending to people for having likely unrealistic hopes for the success of game A when you yourself are making the exact same noise with regards to game B.
        A little perspective would not be a bad idea, I think.

        • RyanC says:

          Star Citizen has concrete plans to be more than just an Auto-pilot simulator. We’ve seen the assets. How many player run capital ships does E:D have? How many multi-crew ships does ED have?

          ED, in every single way, is the inferior game…but it came out first.

          If “first” is your qualifier for a great game, then I guess ED is great. I’ll take the game that comes out later, and with more depth of gameplay, than the one that’s out now with completely shallow gameplay.

          • rabbit says:

            ‘first;’ isn’t my qualifier for a game, ‘game’ is my qualifier for a game. E:D is massively flawed as I have several times stated. S:C however is barely beyond the cash for concept art stage.
            Oh sorry, and thrusters.

    • RyanC says:

      Hey, let me know how that part of Elite works out when you can get out of your ship.

      Round about never.

      • montorsi says:

        Pardon? I bought a spaceship game, not a first-person shooter.

        • RyanC says:

          Congratulations for having low expectations of your gaming experiences.

          I’m sure being represented by a portrait animation, is the best space sim experience any of us can hope for.

          • rabbit says:

            differnet expectations =/= low expectations.

            I’d love a great spaceship game with great on-foot sections and great management and great etc etc too. But S:C has thus far failed to provide a great standalone game of any of those parts yet. I would love for them to succeed in reaching their goals – it’d be a game that I would absolutely definitely buy if they did – but plans are just that: plans. Not reality.

      • Apocalypse says:

        I rather look around in my ship than jumping out of it. I like space sims, not first person shooters. Walking outside your ship is a gimmick for a space sim. nothing more.

        • RyanC says:

          You can discover abandoned and derelict ghost ships in Star Cititzen. You can then get out, explore them on foot, figure out why people died and loot good stuff. Sometimes it goes poorly, and you will need to shoot your way in or out.

          But I’m sure pressing a button to send a probe and wait for the results is exactly the same thing, immersion-wise.

  6. blainestereo says:

    What’s Star Citizen’s current status btw? Is there anything that looks like an actual game released?

    • Love Albatross says:

      The only game part released is an arena shooter with two maps and a handful of ships. It’s pretty, but it’s just a shallow wave or MP combat game with no bigger goal or achievements, is horribly system intensive and the multiplayer stuff is really janky.

      I also hate the feel of the ships and controls, but I’m sure there are those who get on with it and enjoy that aspect.

    • Premium User Badge

      SoundDust says:

      No, there isn’t. The flight module called Arena Commander is in alpha – I wouldn’t say it’s “released”. The rest of the game is still in development.

      I’ve done some runs of Arena Commander and it’s pretty interesting. You definitely need to get used to the controls and learn to fly the ships. Plus every ship handles a bit differently. I’m most looking forward to Squadron 42 – I want my space opera!

    • drinniol says:

      Seeing as the release was originally planned for sometime in 2016, I wouldn’t panic.

    • Havalynii says:

      Nothing is finally released yet; the game is officially pre-Alpha. What they’re doing is working on different modules simultaneously, releasing them as they go, and working towards a feature-complete Alpha, then Beta, then Final. Modules that are currently playable in some form include:

      Arena Commander: This has a couple of space maps, a Skirmish mode against enemy AI, and some PvP modes as well.
      Arena Commander’s race mode: This includes a map and the ability to race ships along an atmospheric course. Think somewhat along the lines of podracing in Star Wars.
      The Hangar: This is a module where you can view ships (at least, those which have reached a certain level of modeling inside and out) and walk around a bit.
      The Tutorial: There is a tutorial mission to acquaint you with basic flight and combat controls.

      This is all functional, albeit with occasional glitches, and the networking backend seems pretty good me at the moment. There’s a lot to come and we have yet to see whether this modular approach will pay off in the end, but if the FPS module and the FPS Arena module (think the Battle Room in Ender’s Game) have the same level of polish (and holy cow, do the existing modules look beautiful at the moment!), we’re looking at a very promising set of Legos for the finished game, in my opinion.

    • metric day says:

      of course not. It’s some hopelessly broken CryEngine tech demos with no overriding vision and a legendarily terrible project manager at the helm who fancies himself an auteur. Good luck!

  7. corinoco says:

    I’m flying to the centre of the Galaxy for the second time in Elite: Dangerous. it takes me about a month each time, taking it slow, exploring several thousand star systems along the way. It is ridiculously pretty.

    Occasionally I have a look at what Star Citizen is up to; but I don’t have to look very often; nothing much changes.

    • Grendael says:

      You are insame. Got any screenshots of anything cool you found.

      I saw a quaternary star. That was cool.

    • RyanC says:

      You have literally described the most boring, repetitive gameplay imaginable, and then have the nerve to complain about Star Citizen.

      Not sure if troll, or if sitting on autopilot for hours on end has fried your common sense circuits.

      • montorsi says:

        There are people for whom exploration is a satisfying experience unto itself, which is why people sink hundreds of hours into Skyrim and Fallout and other such games. That you find it boring is not particularly interesting to anyone, but thanks for chiming in in as rude a way as possible. We will certainly have to reevaluate what we consider fun due to your overwhelmingly intelligent input on the matter.

        • Apocalypse says:

          This.

          Even when I am actually one of the persons who consider this boring, not because of the task itself, but because I think the mechanics in Elite make the task of exploration too boring.

          I would highly preferred if exploration would have involved some sort of logistical planning as well, supplies, repairs in deep space, maybe some more resource gathering. And not just planning your route in a way that you do not run try from to many suns in a row that you can not fuel scoop. The exploration mechanics are simply a little to simple for my taste. The task itself and the galaxy that you see while exploring is for sure worth your time to explore it.

        • RyanC says:

          Exploration, as in “flying my ship far away” is actually quite boring.

          Star Citizen’s version of exploring, has you finding jump gates, derelicts in space (which you actually have to get out of your ship to explore), and a whole lot more.

          It also has about a dozen other jobs (fighter pilot, trade, medic, salvage, mining, exploration, racing, transport driver, bounty hunting, electronic warfare specialist, information smuggling, etc.) that you can partake in.

          Elite Dangerous: A mile wide and an inch deep.

  8. Maxheadroom says:

    I watched this ‘leaked’ internal dev build playthrough on youtube the other day:

    link to youtube.com

    and if that is anything to go by then yeah, some work to do. Even for an ‘alpha’.
    Missing sound effects, clipping, weird phisics. At one point he goes prone and falls out the bottom of the map. Kinda thing Jim Stirling would have a field day with.

    For the record I backed both Elite and this to roughly the same amount so no fanboyisim here

  9. Ross Angus says:

    That zero-gravity thing reminds me of Ender’s Game.

    • BobbyDylan says:

      That’s not surprising considering it’s an almost 100% rip from the movie.

  10. Ethaor says:

    CIG’s problem aren’t that they’re plagued with delays as that’s the nature of software development, the problem is they make public the estimated release windows.

    • gunny1993 says:

      That’s a dev catch 22 though, if you don’t release estimated date people will whine (and whine is appropriate) that they’re being shady and if you don’t deliver on estimated dates people will whine that the content is in development hell the world’s going to end.

      Personally I’d never give out dates, give big personal fuck yous to people who complain about it

    • Arglebargle says:

      CIG’s problems start at the top.

  11. Geebs says:

    “Star Marine” sounds uncomfortably like a knock-off toy. I’m going to assume it comes with a “laser sword”. No, my childhood wasn’t beset by disappointment, why would you ask?

    • Turkey says:

      Star Marines sounds like some kind of international European coalition thing where they only got to pick their name after Space Marine was already taken by the Americans.

      • gunny1993 says:

        I swear Games Workshop actually tried to copywrite “Space Marine”, star marine exists in a universe where they won the copywrite and the Space Core had to name their Marines something different

        • Turkey says:

          It looks like Games Workshop tried to have an e-book that uses the term removed from Amazon or something, but there’s a bunch of pulp stories and books that had space marines before WH40K did.

      • Apocalypse says:

        Nah, we would call them Colonial Marines :p

    • rabbit says:

      ohhh the 90s <3

  12. Sarracenae says:

    Feature creep, the failure of many a kick starter.

    Really when i backed this game I wanted a new wing commander game.

    Now i don’t know what it is any more, i could care less if i can look down and see my feet playing the FPS portion of the game. At first the FPS was supposed to be a minor mini game, where you could in theory storm someones ship (despite the fact that in FPS terms 99% of the ships will be 1 or 2 rooms)… I just don’t get why they are even bothering with doing the FPS before launch, so i can run around in and FPS and fight 2 pirates in a single room in my ship? Shrug

    It’s like when multiplayer shooter tag on a rubbish single player campaign, just concentrate on the core game, and forget about the rest. Make sure Squadron 42 is the best damn wing commander game ever made, and set it in a persistent universe so that you can constantly add stuff to it. Then worry about the rest later.

    • drinniol says:

      Lucky thing that development is happening concurrently with different studios and delaying the FPS stuff for, say, ten years won’t affect Squadron 42, hey?

      • jonfitt says:

        Does that mean that the FPS stuff isn’t linked to the open universe game, or the Sqn 42 game?
        So it’s more of a SC-themed alternate game?
        .
        I thought the point of adding first person was that it would be within the same game?

        • KillahMate says:

          Squadron 42 shares everything with Star Citizen except the netcode, because it’s a single player game. The release delay is due to problems with the netcode.

          • jonfitt says:

            But will first person shooting be part of the main game or Squad 42?

          • KillahMate says:

            Yes, the FPS is a key part of both Star Citizen and by extension Squadron 42.

            To clarify: the game is being developed in modules, but these modules will be seamlessly integrated before the full release – I think Roberts calls it a ‘first-person universe’, which means that the game is theoretically never not an FPS – just like in GTA5 you can run around shooting, then get into a conversation with a story character about a mission, then get into a vehicle and drive to the other side of town them get out and walk again. Star Citizen is exactly the same, except the vehicles are not cars but starships and after talking to a character about a mission you can get into one then drive to the other side of the star cluster, then get out and walk around when you get there.

            Another point of comparison: a first-person Mass Effect, but without RPG character points and you get to actually pilot the ship wherever you want.

          • jonfitt says:

            Oh, then I guess I misunderstood drinniol then. Because a delay to the FPS absolutely delays the finished product.

        • Apocalypse says:

          The delay will not delay the finished product at all, as all modules are developed separately and as long as everything is finished at some point close enough to the release version there is issue with that.

          In that context it is important to note that the spaceship part already has a delay of 9 months or so ;-)
          Only the biggest offender matters somewhat in this scenario and this will most likely be the space and mmo part anyway.

          As the netcode of cryengine is notorious bad, we will see this as the most common delay in all modules, seems like they do rewrite the netcode each time a new specifically for each module … at least I hope that they do, because that way we might actually overcome the cryengine netcode issues and get near optimal netcode for each module. And it would reasonable explain why after a 6 months delay for the dogfighting module we have exact the same “delay because of netcode issues” again with the fps module

          • RyanC says:

            At some point I gave up trying to explain bottlenecks to people without a business degree.

            If every team requires the end product from the previous team, then any delay from the FPS team results in a 1:1 delay in the finished product. This is known as a serial bottleneck.

            It is solved by having teams working in parallel, so there will be some delay but it’s not nearly as bad if you were working serially.

    • gunny1993 says:

      I genuinely think this is feature creep literally because they had too much money. Anyone who has ever worked as part of a group knows that having too many people working on the same thing is pretty much the stupidest thing you can do.

      Currently and to begin with they had entire studios of a good amount of good people working on the S42 and space aspects yada yada, then they were like … hmm we got fuck tonnes of money, lets throw something else in, so they start up the fps stuff.

      Now this isn’t actually a problem until the FPS stuff comes in over budget, if that happens then you get issues where you need to direct funds to it so its not a total wash, this is probably the biggest risk they’re facing.

      • RyanC says:

        It’s amazing to me, how many people lack even a spark of vision.

        It’s as if, Chris Roberts seems to be the only person on the planet to think: wouldn’t it be great to marry Halo and Wing Commander.

        “Feature Creep!” “Too much money!” “BLARGLEBLARGLE!”

        You can pay $30 to buy an Aurora and get Squadron 42…and get access to a AAA-title that HAS THE TWELFTH MOST AMOUNT OF MONEY IN DEVELOPMENT EVER.

        So there’s one knob going on and on about his Dev friend who thinks the’yre spending $36.m a year…so what? 100% of the game funds are being reinvested into the game and there is no publisher hovering around them pushing them to release the game so they get their money back.

        I’m guessing a good portion of the people complaining about Chris wanting to do too much, are the same kind of people who don’t actually try to exceed their capabilities in life. That’s the funny thing about doing things you’ve never done before…you have to exceed your grasp if you don’t plan on living the same routine over and over again.

        This has never been done before. It’s being done now. If you don’t want to be a part of it, take your $30 and go away. Literally, you will not be missed.

        • Asurmen says:

          There’s a massive difference between stretching goals to challenge yourself and promising the world, over reaching and have everything fall apart when the goods don’t live up.

        • montorsi says:

          TWELFTH MOST AMOUNT OF DEVELOPMENT MONEY EVER!!!!!!11

          As if this is some kind of positive quality that has any bearing on whether these idiots can produce a game.

          • RyanC says:

            Actually, it allows them more coders, more artists, more equipment, etc.

            So you think having less money produces a better AAA-title? Show me one AAA-title that has less than $10 million invested in it.

        • Arglebargle says:

          ‘Knob’ here. ;) My ‘dev friend’ has worked on multiple projects with hundreds of people. Been in the gaming industry for decades. The rough estimate was based on for every 100 people working on a game the costs run around one million dollars a month. I forgot when Roberts started bragging about the 250-300 people working on the game, but it was a couple of years ago, right?

          You think Roberts is a genius innovator, I get that. I note that Wing Commander 1 has Warren Spector credited as a co producer, and I know that Stephen Beeman was responsible for most of the major code work on the game. None of the people from Origin that I’ve talked to think that Chris is any sort of genius. The only person I know who worked at CIG left after a short time, and reported that it was not a good place to work at all.

          You can discount this if you want. It IS the internet. But there’s a lot of his history there for the reading, and it points to a pattern that does not bode well for the game.

          Wouldn’t be surprised if it were hard to read, given the glare off your shiny white armor.

          • Apocalypse says:

            Fair enough. At the same time it seems like CR had in his game always a good vision. The basic ideas seem sound and it at least seemed like those concepts were indeed driven by Chris Roberts. Budget and deadlines at the other hand don’t seem his strong side indeed. Marketing seem another strong side of CR. Making games that emotionally attach to their players, immersive, etc … that kind of stuff seems to be something that CR himself is quite invested into. What he seems not to be good at all is doing good game mechanics.

            How good the working conditions under CR are? No idea, because I honestly don´t have the slightest idea about the internals, bad budget management and constantly missing project milestones are usually a sign that working in such a studio can be quite the pain in the neck. At the other hand, there seems to be at least someone willing to give his team the time to finish stuff properly even if it ends up more expensive. So I guess at least some people will like it.

          • RyanC says:

            He did not start out with 250 to 300 employees. The Kickstarter was supposed to serve as proof there was interest in the space sim genre…and once he exceeded their loftiest expectations, they started to work on the space-sim side of the game. The FPS came later on in the process. The exact timeline of funding goals is here:

            link to robertsspaceindustries.com

            There is no publisher in the equation, no advertising at all, so him spending money is a good thing because it’s only going to one place: game development. On the day this game goes live, I would prefer if they had very little in the bank. He has raised $84 million dollars, and will probably have $90-$110 million by the time it’s all said and done. That is more than the budget of a AAA-title, because the budget of all AAA-titles involve marketing expense (Drink moar Red bull) and word of mouth + the internet have served as free marketing.

            I honestly don’t care what his co-workers or employees think of him. His Glassdoor.com page is pretty harsh, unless you’re a backer then it’s exactly what you want to see. (Works us long hours, pay stinks, etc.)

            The irony here, is that the same people crapping on CR are the same people who crap on Ubisoft or EA or any other mega publisher for their broken games, DLC, Red Bull promotions, or other corporate horseshit that is now common in gaming.

            Newsflash kids: This is the first and only Multi-million AAA-game that is independently funded. This will make or break future projects of similar size and scope.

            If Star Citizen fails, then prepare to kiss the ring of your corporate gaming overlords from now until the end of days, because then the big gaming publisher model wins. If Star Citizen works, then maybe other game designers with halfway decent name recognition, can go out and create the game they’ve always wanted to make without being dangled by their corporate purse strings. This may not be the indie designer you wanted, but it’s the indie designer you got.

            Nobody has done this before, and the idea everything would run perfectly is completely asinine and unrealistic. By the way, these modules are only late until they’re released, but releasing a broken piece of shit causes a lot more damage than a delay.

            Or have we all forgotten about the lesson Rocksteady taught us, a week ago today?

          • Arglebargle says:

            Funny thing for me: The description of the game sounds great! I just don’t expect it to work, and that the road to release will be long and bumpy.

            A singular virtue of SC is that it absolutely has put Space games back on the map. The expenditure of fans for the Cash-Shop-in-Advance model shows this. That’s a great benefit to fans of the genre.

            Sad. But I do care about conditions in the game industry. I have too many friends who work in it, and have many tales of neglect and abuse. The industry really runs on idealistic young workers who want to work in the field. Until they experience working in the field. There’s a reason Indies are springing up everywhere. The problem that I see with your Roberts vs the Corporations take is that Roberts IS a suit. I recall some early Roberts interviews where he played up his connections to his good buddies in EA and other Big Dogs. Sure, he sometimes talks the Indie line, but otherwise he waddles just like a duck. But you are right in that he is the duck we’ve got. Duck’s got a history though, and I fully expect that he hasn’t changed his spots there.

            I expect that SC will end up being just as good as his Hollywood output. Feel free to have a Chris Roberts film festival any time you want.

        • Apocalypse says:

          Actually CCP did this more or less and they crippled their main product and studio because of that. ;-)

    • Zenicetus says:

      “Really when i backed this game I wanted a new wing commander game.”

      That’s all I ever wanted too, but I’m not a backer, because it was soon apparent that this wasn’t where Roberts was headed. There may be a decent singleplayer space game struggling to crawl out from beneath all this MMO fluff and bombast, but I have to see it before I’ll buy into it.

      I have a similar disappointment with Elite:D, regarding the value-vs.-time-investment in the singleplayer side of the game. But at least it’s a decent tech platform, if enough content arrives at some point.

  13. drinniol says:

    CryEngine netcode sucks. The Mechwarrior: Online team learned this the hard way and they basically had to rewrite the code entirely, which caused many delays and many cries of the game being doomed. I’m anticipating the same applying here.

  14. KillahMate says:

    If Star Citizen were a regular publisher-backed game, at this point in its development no one would even know it exists. Except maybe a completely content-free teaser at this year’s E3. First real trailer wouldn’t be out before the end of this summer, with just ‘2016’ written at the end and no indication of what will come out and when in 2016. First gameplay trailer would be somewhere around Christmas 2015.

    People aren’t used to games of this size being developed in public from scratch.

    • rabbit says:

      People aren’t used to games of this size being developed *at all*

  15. derbefrier says:

    for those who don’t follow closely and dont want to read that long letter from the chairman, what basically happened is CIG thought they could push out Star MArine with Cryengines net code like they did with Arena Commander ( which to be honest was already at its limits with AC) and integrate the new backened\netcode stuff with AC 2.0 as they had originally planned. When they began doing in house testing they found Cryengines netcode couldn’t handle it and have now had to expedite these changes ahead of schedule which is the reason for the delay we are seeing now. It sucks but its something that needs to be done sooner than later like they had planned.

    • derbefrier says:

      just wanted to add this has nothing to do with feature creep as some are assuming. This was something that was planned from the beginning in order for the PU to function they knew they were going to have to do this ( the big reason they chose Cryengine was for it graphic capability as no game engine out there was going to have the proper netcode to support a game like SC anyway) . Agin, not feature creep, they just made the mistake of thinking cryengine stock netcode could handle Star Marine while they got the new backend\net code ready for AC 2.0

    • metric day says:

      Oh bullshit, they’ve known their netcode was garbage for years and supposedly overhauled it last year! What, did they expect it to magically be brilliant this year? They are writing checks their talent and ability cannot possibly hope to cash.

      • RyanC says:

        Assuming you don’t play games on a Potato PC, Arena Commander is completely functional and actually plays better than a good portion of the multiplayer/no story games released last year.

        But I’m guessing your PC is a potato.

        Actually, I’m guessing you haven’t played a single second of it.

        • metric day says:

          Completely functional? It’s been crap for months. The RSI forums are filled with complaints, and the servers are conspicuously NOT full of players. You can cram your potatoes up your Lesnick, sir.

          • RyanC says:

            I have had no problem playing. When there is a problem, they identify it, and fix it. If it’s too bad (rubber-banding, missiles hitching framerate) I go play another game and come back when they fix it. Which they do.

            People with garbage rigs, complaining their Pre-Alpha isn’t working the way they want it to, mean very little to me.

          • metric day says:

            Pre-Alpha? It’s called Star Citizen Alpha now. Garbage rig? Who the hell is playing on one? The madeup little man in your brain? It runs terribly, the netcode is trash, the servers are underutilized, and anybody reading this can just go to RSI’s own forums to read about how well it runs…

          • RyanC says:

            link to youtu.be

            Looks completely functional to me.

        • zentropy says:

          What the frack is up with this guy anyways?

    • Arglebargle says:

      All that’s just an excuse for Roberts’ poor project management. Not a surprise, as he’s pretty much always been a poor to lackluster manager. If only the real story of Freelancer’s mismanagement was public knowledge, backers would feel a little more than nervous…..

  16. Freud says:

    I’m not surprised there are delays. Chris Roberts is an anagram for Rich Bro Rests.

    • grimdanfango says:

      It’s also an anagram for Brr, Ice Shorts. Maybe *that’s* the reason for the delay.

  17. antrodax says:

    Arena Commander was (is) an alpha delivered to the subscribers like two or three years in advance of the roughly first scheluled dates programmed.

    Most of the community are pleased with the feel of an extremely early rendition of the in-game play, knowing that there would be lot of iterations -mainly because of CryEngine-.

    It’s hard to press things on Chris Roberts right now, because he and the different teams have been informing almost in real time about all the process (there is a weekly report in “Around the Verse”, a monthly one in the web and extra info on core mechanics in lengthy and neat special posts). For instance, when the network code revamp proved himself mandatory, CIG stablished a new team in Germany comprised in part by the original coders of the CryEngine version they are using.

    Those delays are not new nor unexpected. Not even unpromised. We are asisting to the manufacture of a vastly ambitious game on a day-to-day basis, and being able to witness it , if you are curious about such things, is a bless.

    I think that the main issue is that Arena Commander was treated by the media and an important amount of consumers like an almost finished product. A lot of the critics and the response in CIG’s forums didn’t take its pre-alpha state in consideration and I’m afraid that this is one of the main reasons that are holding “Star Marine” back.

    People is bashing Elite:Dangerous because its shallow. The different jobs and experiences we hoped to fulfill aren’t there. Star Citizen still have plenty of room to fail in that aspect. The only hint about mining mechanics, for example, is a serie of tasks that require multicrew and are driven from a single-purpose onerous ship. I bought my Aurora dreaming myself traversing asteroid fields to gather some ore while trying my luck for a jackpot in form of a rich vein to sell to a corporation. For me, that is a concern, not a three month delay in a module that everybody is willing to dissect.

  18. blacksun_redux says:

    Always funny to see how misinformed people are about this game. I don’t blame them, it’s kind of hard to grasp what they are doing and how they are doing it, and it’s hard to gather information from the website. They are doing dome INCREDIBLE things, and already have much of it implemented. (Local physics grids, fantastic damage states, real physics based flight, “grabby hands” character interaction..)

    This stage of development is in a “valley” where core systems and groundwork is being laid for future growth.

  19. Sunjammer says:

    What I want to know is when Cloud Imperium is going to acknowledge and adress Star Citizen’s complete lack of charisma. “Squadron 42”? I cannot imagine a game with a world I could possibly care less about at this point. Just random generic sci fi mashed together.

    • Arglebargle says:

      Roberts has always been a hack. Evident from the beginning with the complete rip off of Kzinti for the Kilrathi. Just look at the Hollywood movies he associated himself with. Bad to mediocre, with only a few sporting any clever ideas. And they suffered the cardinal Hollywood sin of not making money.

      • RyanC says:

        So he made a game which sold over a million copies, got a movie made, and published other movies.

        What have you done? What risk have you ever taken in life?

        Because even if the game was bad (it’s not…nobody knows who the hell Kzinti are, nor does anyone care) and even if his movies are bad (they are), I’d still rather hang out and drink a beer with someone like Roberts who tries different things with mixed results vs. someone who just complains about someone trying different things.

        • Asurmen says:

          Wow. Talk about being defensive and bringing up utterly irrelevant points to an argument while white washing blatant plagiarism (while ironically mentioning about Chris doing different things) as if no one has EVER heard of Larry Niven.

          • Apocalypse says:

            *giggle* Ringworld, though I totally forget the name of the author :D

          • RyanC says:

            Sorry, nobody has heard of Larry Niven. He’s a big deal in the genre, but Sci-fi is not as popular as you might think it is.

            And making cat-based Klingons, does not make you original. It means that during the years you wrote for Star Trek, you decided to steal from that source material and make Klingon cats.

          • Asurmen says:

            Wow. Just wow. Talk about ignorant much. Still utterly irrelevant argument you’ve made buy hey ho!

        • rabbit says:

          tell us more about the thrusters

  20. Shiloh says:

    Bloody hell, $84m pledged to get a game developed? Utter madness.

  21. Wedge says:

    I feel like Chris Roberts is a co-existing alternate reality of Derek Smart where instead of chasing ridiculous ambitions with no resources, he’s going after them with unlimited resources. And ironically, in the end, the final product will be largely the same.

  22. Ancient Evil says:

    I have to say, as someone with no emotional investment in this thing one way or another, watching the fanatical fans and fanatical haters of this game wage holy war against each other under every single article is mighty fascinating.